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I don’t give a rat’s ass about third party app stores
Just let me sideload IPAs god damn it

I just want to download an ipa of an emulator on my Mac, connect my iPhone and install it via Apple Configurator or whatever
How hard is that???
 
Isn't every developer paying for it by paying Apple an annual developer fee though?

The developer fee includes "all the tools, resources, and support you need to develop and distribute apps, including access to beta software, app services, testing tools, app analytics, and more."


Paying the developer membership fee *and* getting chargd a Core Tech Fee means Apple is double billing developers.
Not hardly. Apple lowered the costs to developers orders of magnitude to even get the platform off the ground.

A developer license for NeXTSTEP was $799, a user license was $299 and Enterprise Objects Framework license was $4999, $24999 and $49999 enterprise unlimited. OS X had a larger entry user base so the early OS fee eventually went to $0.

Does Microsoft charge a $99 fee annually for Office 360 Enterprise? How about Visual Studio, etc?

You’re delusional belief your $99 fee covers you is ludicrous.
 
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I literally have zero faith in what the CEO of Epic games says. And the entire DMA rules are just morons stomping their feet because they can't get their way, then convincing politicians who don't understand how technology or security work to do their bidding and ruin a platform.

Apple appears to be doing there best to comply, without iOS turning into the mess and disaster that is Android.
 
Not surprising Apple would do this in a way that would make 3rd party marketplaces a bad deal. They don’t want 3rd party market places to exist. The only question is whether the EU believes these changes comply with the DMA or not.
 
Which exists mostly because app developers are willing to develop apps for the platform. Again let's flip it around: Apple thinks they're entitled to the talent of hunderds of thousand developers worldwide to enhance their platform. And for that entitlement they charge very heavily.
They are only willing to develop because historically Apple users are willing to pay for quality apps more than any user base in computing history.
 
Within the last 16 months there has been a $1T swing between Apple and Microsoft’s market cap. Apple should be focused on bringing great, innovative products to market. This obsession with rent seeking in the App Store is gross. Charge every developer a fee for the tools, app hosting, dev support. Charge a small fee for those who want Apple to handle payment processing. Stop trying to run the App Store as a major revenue driver.
 
Companies are really complaining about getting tons of free dev work from apple? If you're going to use Apple's frameworks and API's to make your product work in a must more cost-efficient way than building from scratch, you should pay the piper. I've developed multiple apps, and am happy to pay my share to apple (tho I wish it was lower) because I KNOW it would have cost me 10x to build it from scratch.
What is Facebook, Spotify and Netflix paying to Apple right now? Their apps are free to download and (with Spotify and Netflix, at least) don’t require IAP. Isn’t it the case that, by design, the majority of apps are being subsidized by a much smaller number of apps (mostly games)?
 
Addressing EU regulators

Spotify VP1: We could never afford Apple's terms, even though it brought us 2/3s of our revenue. We never wanted to develop for them. They pistol whipped us into developing for the mac/iOS platforms. We can't pay Apple more because we have to pay the artists.

Spotify VP2: Wait..we pay artists now.
 
Not surprising Apple would do this in a way that would make 3rd party marketplaces a bad deal. They don’t want 3rd party market places to exist. The only question is whether the EU believes these changes comply with the DMA or not.
Those companies didn't lobby the EU to offer better deals. They lobbied the EU so that they could charge commissions themselves.
 
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"Core Technology" There it is. Put up or shut up. Either STOP USING Apple's developers' work, or PAY FOR IT. 🤷‍♂️

iOS dev here who literally could never make a penny without standing on the shoulders of thousands of Apple iOS devs,

My brother in Christ, nobody and I mean NOBODY could make a penny writing modern software without thanklessly using the work of literally hundreds/thousands of other developers. All modern software depends on libraries, code and concepts developed by others. Including Apple. Apple couldn’t build Mac OS and iOS without the work of others.

Using your logic, Apple is in the wrong because it’s taking all the work of other developers that made macOS and iOS possible without giving them a penny.

Apple became a trillion dollar company by “standing on the shoulders of thousands of other devs”.

dependency.png
 
Surprised it took this long. Apple's "plan" was a blatant non-compliant middle finger. Instead of opening IOS to outside markets, they found ways to charge fees anyway. Agree or disagree with the EU's ruling, Apple did show some courage with the balls they have in their "compliance."
Yep, it is just Apple's version of the game of chicken.
 
It's actually not that easy to distribute a Mac app these days. If it's not signed/notarized appropriately, macOS won't let you run it.
That's not my experience. Almost all my apps come from outside the Mac App Store and I have no issues. I'm not sure how I have no issues. Maybe you just have to force an app to open once in order to bypass restrictions?
 
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This makes me love and trust Apple more and more. It’s their iPhone. People buy their iPhone knowing what they get. They could always not an iPhone. Tough **** to these developers. I hope they lose and the EU stays out of it.
Well said.
The developers are a bunch of cry babies. They want Apple to provide them free resources that cost Apple millions to produce and maintain for Free! Nobody forced them to develop for iOS and they knew Apple’s terms upfront. What the developers want also undermine what I want as a consumer. Namely one company to be responsible for the hardware and software. This new forced regime benefits developers not consumers.
 
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Why is the Mac open then?
Because desktop OS's do not rely on using apps to interface with various services via the internet. Darwin represents an object-oriented, multitasking UNIX operating system. It is derived from 1989 Nextstep OS that Apple got when Steve Jobs returned to Apple Dec 20th 1996 with the acquisition of NeXT Computer. The other derived OS's hail from the same Next Step code base but are much more restrictive/specialized for particular devices such as iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, tvOS and now VisionOS.
 
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They maybe onerous terms. But Epic and Spotify have not been civil about the whole process. Why would you play nice with companies who just like to waste money dragging you through the legal system and abusing you via social media. Let’s be clear non of it is about the customer.

Yeah I've said on here a few times, it saddens me that Spotify, Epic, and EU are the ones on the other side of this. No one, except maybe the EU in their semi-clueless legislator way, is acting in good faith here.
 
Because desktop OS's do not rely on using apps to interface with various services via the internet. Darwin represents an object-oriented, multitasking UNIX operating system. It is derived from 1989 Nextstep OS that Apple got when Steve Jobs returned to Apple Dec 20th 1996 with the acquisition of NeXT Computer. The other derived OS's hail from the same Next Step code base but are much more restrictive/specialized for particular devices such as iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, tvOS and now VisionOS.

It may not be technically true, but it seems iOS etc are basically containers run on top of Darwin/macOS. They were never supposed to be full operating systems. They're chrooted applications. All the actual OS stuff is carefully locked away.
 
I presume that Apple submitted this plan to the EU months ago — if there was an issue with compliance with the law, I also presume that it would have been brought up to them already. The same developers that complained about the plan previously and complaining again — is this to tickle the ears of EU legislators?
 
Paying a yearly per-user fee just to run an app marketplace is straight up insane, it's blatantly anti-competitive and there's no chance it will survive regulatory scrutiny.

The other provisions are a little more fuzzy, and I wouldn't be shocked if they mostly survive intact.
And so you expect Apple to just give everyone everything for free?
 
"Core Technology" There it is. Put up or shut up. Either STOP USING Apple's developers' work, or PAY FOR IT. 🤷‍♂️

iOS dev here who literally could never make a penny without standing on the shoulders of thousands of Apple iOS devs, who’ve put in uncountable years of effort into areas I basically have zero experience or expertise in. 👋

Most people claiming Apple's cut is unearned don’t know what “import Foundation” does at the top of literally every iOS code file in literally every AppStore app. (Hint: It's not necessary to get an app into the App Store!)

Ditto for:

import UIKit
import SwiftUI
import CryptoKit
Button()
let task = URLSession.shared.dataTask(with: session)
etc, etc, etc…

Literally 💯 of iOS apps use code written by Apple to do a staggering amount of their work.

ZERO apps roll their own custom code instead of using the mountain of frameworks and APIs that Apple has built and perfected (complete with expected features like free dark mode, rotation, language, compat across device, accessibility size, backgrounding, persistence, etc, etc, etc features).

ZERO apps do this because it would cost 10-20x as much to develop, and nobody would pay for the lesser experience.

Even the simplest app would take literal years more development, and STILL not achieve anything close to feature parity by dropping in Apple’s code with zero effort.

Oh, and when iOS updates with new features, or a new style? INSTANTLY that app needs massive work to retain feature parity with other apps that did zero work to match style or make use of many new features. (Sometimes a TEENY bit of work to make a huge new feature work if you want.)

Show me an app developer who doesn’t lean HEAVILY on Apple’s developers’ work, and I’ll show you somebody who gets to talk about the “outrageous” price Apple charges for their work. 🙄
Good perspective. Wouldn’t the only alternative to the Core Technology fee be to individually bill for use of each API and tool that Apple has developed? As you’ve said, they have greatly reduced development costs by making these available, so they are well within their rights to bill for them. This is where I think it will end up going.
 
And so you expect Apple to just give everyone everything for free?

Apple aren't giving anybody anything for free.

The hardware sells at enormous margins. How do you think their Mac business, where most of the third party software comes from non app store sources, works?!
 
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