The difference is I can just go to another store with lower margins if I am not happy paying the price or the product manufacturer can offer it directly (Tesla with direct to customer sales instead of middleman dealerships) . I can't do that to get an app on IOS. This is the WHOLE argument. What is to stop Apple from rejecting a subscription based app because it directly competes with their own? (literally what just happened with Microsoft Xcloud) That would pretty much be defined as a Monopoly would it not?
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Spotify Sides With Epic Games in Battle Against Apple's App Store Fees
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The difference is I can just go to another store with lower margins if I am not happy paying the price or the product manufacturer can offer it directly (Tesla with direct to customer sales instead of middleman dealerships) . I can't do that to get an app on IOS. This is the WHOLE argument. What is to stop Apple from rejecting a subscription based app because it directly competes with their own? (literally what just happened with Microsoft Xcloud) That would pretty much be defined as a Monopoly would it not?
But no one is FORCED to buy an iPhone. Consumers that purchase an iPhone should be well aware that the Apple ecosystem is a closed system and all apps have to be purchased and downloaded from the Apple App Store. If a consumer doesn't like that, they are free to purchase a smart phone from a different manufacturer.
Spotify had the option to make in-app purchase 30% more than if they signed up outside the app. What Epic did today was had the IAP via Apple and IAP via Epic side by side showing Epic's direct payment cheaper than Apple (scummy move)
It sounds like Android might be the OS you're looking for
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This so much. Buying the iPhone was a choice with the knowledge of the closed ecosystem
Well, obviously it would be cheaper since they’re not paying Apple a 30% fee for no particular reason.
Well at the end of the day if Apple actually cared about „us“ as they love to claim, they would remove all those obnoxious „free“ games that are filled with a billion in-App ad pop ups throwing you out of the game and into the store / website too. Those are almost literally spam and indeed ruin the experience. Don’t even get me started on all the trackers these apps have installed.
I am surprised Apple isn’t asking for a cut of advertisement income of free apps to be honest
I am surprised Apple isn’t asking for a cut of advertisement income of free apps to be honest
Stupid argument.
Cocacola and Pepsi can't sell their diet drinks in Whole Foods because Whole Foods won't allow drinks that contain artificial sweeteners to be sold to customers. I guess that means they should be able to then...right?
No it's not. If most of your target customers are on the iPhone, and want to help those customers, then you can't just force them to switch to Android. They have a right to your products and benefits too.
I specifically buy iPhones for myself and my family because they restrict what can be installed. I made an informed decision understanding the consequences of my decision. I would like all of you who apparently made uniformed purchasing decisions to go out and buy an Android phone.
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Well, that settles it, I guess Microsoft can charge a 30% fee for every transaction that happens while using Windows. Google will add another 30% for online shopping in Chrome.
Not such a good comparison.
Microsoft were done for anti-competitive practices. They were offering PC vendors kickbacks to preinstall Windows. They provided financial benefits to companies not to bundle other OSes. They made deliberate code changes to their business software to prevent it from running stably on competing (but nominally compatible) operating systems (DR-DOS, OS/2).
But then, Microsoft can build the Xbox Game Store. Is it an issue that I can't install games on an Xbox from another source? Likewise, the PS Store is the only place from which I can install apps and games for my PS4. It seems they both take a cut from both game and game-addon (closest analogy to IAPs) sales.
I don't think there's anything Apple is doing which others don't also do.
What I do think is daft is their lack of flexibility. I'd suggest that Apple:
- Maintains the 30% cut of initial App sales
- Lowers the IAP cut to 15%
- Accepts apps with external content stores (Steam, xCloud, etc) after a thorough review. Don't allow random devs to set up a shonky low-content store to siphon cash off customers.
- Create a mandatory API for interaction with external content stores. This would allow Apple to add whatever payment security options it desires before passing the transaction to the external store. This could also be a trigger for Apple to notify the user that the purchase is with a Third Party (e.g. Valve Corporation). This API could also be used to populate the user's Apple ID purchase history which would provide clickable links to the third-party's tech/billing support/complaint/etc. portal.
There's a sensible middle-ground to be had here -- and Apple need to get to it themselves before the PR damage is done and the blunt hammer of the courts force it into compromises that'll affect the user's experience.
For God's sake, Apple's take on the App store is not 30% in perpetuity. It's 30% for the *first* year, after which it is 15%. If you think that's gouging, trying building it yourself. Oh, and Google's store takes 30% too, without the robust oversight that Apple provides.
correct me if I'm wrong, but 30% pays for the app store platform (maintenance, security, visibility of apps, reach, etc.).
Any button that redirects the user to a different method of payment will take advantage of all the app store's benefits without paying apple a dime.
Getting an app on the App Store isn't free for Apple. Apple fronts the bill. $99/year isn't going to be enough to pay for app reviewers salaries.
WebKit on iOS would be fully capable of running Fortnight. Technology is not the problem here. (WASM works on iOS just fine and thanks to Apple silicon is faster than any optimized code on Android. Unreal Engine on WebGL surely would be worse than on Metal, but should give acceptable results)
Problem is that consumers looking for a game for iOS are used to searching for that in App Store and would not find Fortnight. They go to App Store, search and see something else interesting.
i tried a lot of android devices and apples overall build and software quality together with their ecosystem, AirPods and the watch is just better. I’m fine with Apple charging whatever they want on their store. There should just be another store to choose from so that I as a user have some choice.
Agreed. Neither has 'clean' hands. As stated in a related thread:
And I hate to say -- especially as at this point I still don't intend to "jump ship" -- Tim Cook has led the way for Apple to become the new (or rather old) Microsoft. Cook has made Apple a LOT of money but at a cost of drastically and significantly changing the company i.e. Apple's vision was to create products that they felt people wanted (and for the most part succeeded) but now works to satisfy trends and longstanding demands. In other words, Apple was about stepping in front of the crowd no matter what the criticism, now they are pushing through to reach the front line.
Why the **** is Apple entitled to a 30% cut when Epic is using their own payment processing service? Tim Apple’s 10th yacht fund?
they r the a who tried so hard to appear good instead of admitting to be an a. I’d give Apple way more credit if they wouldn’t always act like they do it for the customer. They are a business, they want to make money. It’s nothing to be ashamed of in fact. So act like it, this whole pretend is what rubs me the wrong way for the last few years.
When Cook went in front of the press saying „we price our products by the experience we think we provide to the customer“ like omg shut up lol
The obvious thing here is that it’s not just ‘Epic’ or ‘Spotify’ taking a stand against Apple. It’s two companies partly controlled by Tencent. It doesn’t seem to be talked about much.
What you're describing is Android. IOS is more than just an appearance. You can make Android look like iOS. The locked down security is a big part of the system
I agree 30% is steep. I would be more inclined to say 20%, but remember that is for the first year. Its 15% after that. Most products don't make the lion's share of their profit in the first year because it takes time for them to get well know. Only companies like Spotify or Epic who have hype over products before they launch will see it truly affect their bottom line the first year. and remember this isn't a purchase, its a service. It's like a masseuse going into a resort and saying "I'm going to do massages for your resort guests in your lobby that people will pay for, but you don't get anything for it."
If these companies were smart, they would just follow Apples rules, then do what every other company does; create a non-profit coop ad campaign that educates people on the need to "support developers" not "big business" by subscribing to services from their own sites. It worked for Johnson and Johnson, Coca-cola, Bacon, etc.