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Invalidating? Correct storytelling?

Seems to me that you're upset because the story that was told was not the story you wanted them to tell.
Yes, invalidating. Since we're on a brand new timeline, do any of movies that come after make any sense now? If events are now unfolding differently, the other ten films are moot. There were many ways they could have made this film palatable. This was not one of those ways. If you're so desperate for beating the time travel horse, why not send them into the future to help prevent the destruction of Romulus, instead of having a one-dimensional MMA reject coming back from the future? That would have at least been a new take on an old idea - going forward instead of back.

Signal-11 said:
The telling and retelling of stories, particularly adventures, is a part of the human experience since time immemorial. Every Greek hero and Olympian has several versions of his story and these types of variations exist in almost all cultures.
Can you show me examples of where the retelling has gone so far off base as this?

Signal-11 said:
Why should the rest of us be beholden to your idea of what is correct for Kirk, Spock and crew? Where's YOUR imagination, creativity and for that matter, tolerance, in allowing us to accept this group of story teller's "what if"?
I guess it just takes more for my suspension of disbelief to kick in than for others. This film was just way too far off the track from Roddenberry's Star Trek to be likable, which upon reflection I think is the crux of the issue for me.
 
Yes, invalidating. Since we're on a brand new timeline, do any of movies that come after make any sense now?

They can clearly co-exist. There is nothing stopping anything from turning out extremely similarly to the established star trek universe. There are of course some major hickups in the Vulcan timeline, but Vulcans rarely play a huge role and there's nothing to say they still wouldn't be able to perform the same role now.

Plus, once this "new" timeline gets to the point where Spock has a chance to save Romulus and succeeds, the old timeline is re-established. To me, the two timelines are so close they might as well be the same as far as the telling of the story goes.

At any rate, Star Trek needed something gutsy to bring it back to life. It was falling apart. Each new Star Trek movie left me feeling more and more unsatisfied. This was the first exciting Star Trek in a very long time.
 
There are of course some major hickups in the Vulcan timeline, but Vulcans rarely play a huge role and there's nothing to say they still wouldn't be able to perform the same role now.

Well, the surviving Vulcans could colonize a new planet, and over the course of a number of generations, develop a large population, cities, technology. This would eventually be a "new" planet Vulcan. If the writers really did need to have this event coexist with the previously established timeline, they could explain it away.

But given that they've established this is a parallel universe, it doesn't matter.

I'm glad they at least try to keep everything consistent. Look at Terminator for an example of a franchise that doesn't keep itself consistent (the TV series just pretends that events of Terminator 3 never happened).
 
Yes, invalidating. Since we're on a brand new timeline, do any of movies that come after make any sense now? If events are now unfolding differently, the other ten films are moot. There were many ways they could have made this film palatable. This was not one of those ways. If you're so desperate for beating the time travel horse, why not send them into the future to help prevent the destruction of Romulus, instead of having a one-dimensional MMA reject coming back from the future? That would have at least been a new take on an old idea - going forward instead of back.

Can you show me examples of where the retelling has gone so far off base as this?

Sure. Can you give me a definitive list of the crew of the Argo? You can't, because there's so many different conflicting versions of the myth floating around. The Argonauts were drawn from different periods of Greek mythology and on close examination, the timing doesn't add up. Was Atalanta crew or were there no females on board? Castor and Pollux, were they born or were they hatched?

Care to venture how many versions of the Monkey King there are in Asia? You might be familiar with one of the most recent takes as Dragonball.

None of the various iterations invalidates another. They're just different stories.

And did you know Eric Bana is a comedian?

I guess it just takes more for my suspension of disbelief to kick in than for others. This film was just way too far off the track from Roddenberry's Star Trek to be likable, which upon reflection I think is the crux of the issue for me.

Man, my suspension of disbelief gets toggled all the time, just like any other geek. The trick is to not to let it bother you. Star Trek even goes out of its way to make it easy for you by constantly giving the audience things that are outside of the fourth wall. The Redshirt dies first. Scotty is given schematics of technology from the future. Is that Captain Pike in a wheelchair?

This is what people want. People want more Captain Kirk. Why does this story belong to you any more than the rest of us?
 
It immediately struck me that the middle initial appears to be "R"
James R. Kirk, not the familiar James T. Kirk

Just thought that was interesting in light of the "James Tiberius Kirk" we have all known over the yearswg

and to confuse things even more, if you saw the trailer, i could've sworn the kid said he was James Siberious Kirk just as he climbed away from the cliff. check trailer 2 here. i also thought I heard his father say it before he met his fate.
 
You might as well skip Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier.

You'd probably get more entertainment out of Mega Shark vs Giant Octopus starring Debbie Gibson. :)
I always liked Star Trek 5. Personally I would steer clear of Star Trek 9: Insurrection and Star Trek 10: Nemesis.

I never really liked what they did with the TNG movies. The series was very well done but they just did not try to make good movies. I think they were just milking the Star Trek name and just slapped these films together.

To further the use of the metaphor. They milked it dry with the previous two films and actually had to work hard again to make Star Trek 11 a good film.

Personally I wish they used the TNG crew and put the level of budget and effort into one last TNG movie. So that we can be left with a good final film rather than tossing TNG in the garbage like Nemesis did.
 
i actually really enjoyed it though i suspected more from the academy years.. i really found the characters spot on ... and including new things like uhura-spock caught me off guard and sure made the movie more interesting
(this includes the "not repairing everything magically in the end" with vulcan)

also greats nods to the fans (redshirt, kirk under bed, the fencing, the accent etc.)



only criticism in my opinion would be introduction of scotty and the following super distance transporter

and what i expected and didn't get: a 1vs1 fight in the red goo chamber but i can live with that
 
Personally I wish they used the TNG crew and put the level of budget and effort into one last TNG movie. So that we can be left with a good final film rather than tossing TNG in the garbage like Nemesis did.

I'm hoping they do to TNG what they did with this movie to TOS. A big Hollywood film with new, younger actors playing Picard, Riker and co. Except they would have to bring Brent Spiner back to play Data, since he doesn't age. I'm sure he would do it, judging from his twitter feed :cool:
 
Star Trek IV was my favourite.

"Hello, computer!"

Ha! There were a few references to ST4 in the movie. When Scotty was beamed aboard the enterprise and into a water tank, he was blasted through pipes made with none other than transparent aluminum.

Also the shuttle craft used to transport Kirk and McCoy to the enterprise was called the "Gillian". :)
 
I loved this movie, I don't really know how to think about the Spock and Uhura thing. But other then that the plot was good, all the actors were great, and the effects would have made Gene R. proud.
 
Forgive me if this has been talked about already...But why and how was vulcan destroyed? Vulcan is still there as is Romulus. Why did they destroy both planets in this movie? It doesn't go along with the Star Trek world or story at all.

Other than that i really enjoyed it. My girlfriend was confused with the movie once they starting talking about the the past and future. She didn't understand the black hole had taken them back in time.
 
Forgive me if this has been talked about already...But why and how was vulcan destroyed? Vulcan is still there as is Romulus. Why did they destroy both planets in this movie? It doesn't go along with the Star Trek world or story at all.

Other than that i really enjoyed it. My girlfriend was confused with the movie once they starting talking about the the past and future. She didn't understand the black hole had taken them back in time.

It was a little confusing, but time travel is always confusing...

Romulus was destroyed in the future because future Spock didn't get there in time to save it (this is like 120 years in the future or something like that. I believe it was even after the events of Star Trek Nemesis. Spock is old). The black hole then sent Nero and Spock back in time in which Nero gets his revenge by destroying Vulcan with a black hole. Yes, this does change the Star Trek universe timeline from what we knew it to be. Some hate this, others don't mind. I for one am happy they shook things up a bit by not neatly putting everything back together in the end.
 
It was a little confusing, but time travel is always confusing...

Romulus was destroyed in the future because future Spock didn't get there in time to save it (this is like 120 years in the future or something like that. I believe it was even after the events of Star Trek Nemesis. Spock is old). The black hole then sent Nero and Spock back in time in which Nero gets his revenge by destroying Vulcan with a black hole. Yes, this does change the Star Trek universe timeline from what we knew it to be. Some hate this, others don't mind. I for one am happy they shook things up a bit by not neatly putting everything back together in the end.


Right, i understand all that. But in the end, Vulcan is still destroyed, and Romulus isn't. Every other star trek vulcan wasn't destroyed. Thats what i was confused about.
 
^This is a new Star Trek. It is nothing like the other ones. You essentially have to forget that others have happened.

I'm still fairly certain that there's nothing to say that it still wouldn't turn out extremely close to the original Star Trek timeline. At the end of this movie, Vulans have already found a suitable planet to recolonize making it very easy for this Vulcan to take the place of Vulcan in later episodes/movies. His mother wouldn't be around in Star Trek IV though... To me, that is the biggest change we would see.
 
I just want to see Pegg on the big screen again.

Spaced, Shaun of the dead, hot fuzz - brit comedy at its best
 
After last weekend's $76.5 million opening, three phrases keep getting tossed in the direction of "Star Trek" director J.J. Abrams: sequel, Khan, and William Shatner.

On Friday, as the filmmaker hoped to maintain momentum heading into his second weekend, Abrams told MTV News that he's open to all three.

"The fun of this [new alternate 'Trek' reality] is that the destiny of these characters is in their hands — it's not constrained by the pre-existing films or TV series," the "Lost" mastermind explained. "Believe me, whether it's William Shatner or Khan ... it would be ridiculous to not be open to those ideas."


As those who've seen the film know, Abrams' new "Star Trek" establishes an alternate timeline for the series' key characters — one that veers off course when the USS Kelvin is attacked in the film's opening scene, killing James T. Kirk's father and causing the future Enterprise captain to be born in space. Other events in the film also similarly impact the young "Trek" characters, resulting in wholly new story lines.


"One of the reasons we wanted to break with the original 'Star Trek' timeline was it felt restrictive," Abrams said of the plot device that could conceivably fuel the venerable series for another five decades. "The idea, now that we are in an independent timeline, allows us to use any of the ingredients from the past — or come up with brand-new ones — to make potential stories."

One buzzed-about ingredient is Khan Noonien Singh — arguably the most memorable villain ever to inhabit the "Trek" series — whom Kirk banished to a barren world in an old story line. Writer/producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman have stated their hope of bringing Khan into the "Star Trek" sequel — and Abrams told us that in his universe, the superhuman tyrant may never have been stuck on Ceti Alpha V.
MTV news

boom!
 
I'm still fairly certain that there's nothing to say that it still wouldn't turn out extremely close to the original Star Trek timeline. At the end of this movie, Vulans have already found a suitable planet to recolonize making it very easy for this Vulcan to take the place of Vulcan in later episodes/movies. His mother wouldn't be around in Star Trek IV though... To me, that is the biggest change we would see.

Kirk also takes command of the enterprise much much earlier in the new alternate timeline than he did in the original series timeline.
 
Apparently Abrams wasn't a fan of the franchise.

Saved him from worrying a bucket load of dogma.

Rather like Henry VIII statring up the Church of England and telling il Papa to kiss his ring.
 
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