For me, a movie being 'better the second time' is a fair sign that they got the editing wrong; and the pacing is wrong and/or the character motivations aren't clear.
(Just saw this last night, so commenting on editing is now my latest Jedi skill).
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS EVERYWHERE)
- Thread starter AustinIllini
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For me, a movie being 'better the second time' is a fair sign that they got the editing wrong; and the pacing is wrong and/or the character motivations aren't clear.
(Just saw this last night, so commenting on editing is now my latest Jedi skill).
True about editing. Looking back at other Star Wars films, you can see how strong editing can make a movie great. My wife fell asleep midway through TLJ. I don't know if she missed much.
Also, strong editing made the Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back great. Looking back at the non-Lucas contributions negates his "did it himself" attitudes. But that is an entirely different conversation.
Also, strong editing made the Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back great. Looking back at the non-Lucas contributions negates his "did it himself" attitudes. But that is an entirely different conversation.
They weren't made for any generation. They were made because Lucas wanted to be the first to shoot a major film digitally and the notion of a Star Wars prequel was convenient to that purpose.
Back in 1997 - 1999, my favs -
VI
V
IV
I'm not going to lie, the ending to ROTJ was beautiful. I never had the best relationship with my father, so first few times I saw it, it made a 16-year old boy like me a little misty eyed.
"Then my father is truly dead."
"Let me look at you through my own eyes."
"You were right about me. Tell your sister, you were right... "
As time passed on, first SW I ever watched became my favorite. Then ROTS became my #1 for over a decade. It has flaws though especially how easily Anakin turned and the reason behind it.
Empire regained its pole position at #1 because of one reason - the characters. As a bonus, it added "The Imperial March" and "Han And The Princess" while adding new characters (Yoda, Lando, Boba Fett) that didn't distract from the story. I was still a fetus when TESB was released, but it's the SW film released the year I was born. Told ya the 80's ruled.
Who were the standouts in the prequels? Obi-Wan mostly. Ewan McGregor was the highlight and he didn't even do much in Ep 1. Liam Neeson stood out in Ep 1. Yoda stood out in Ep 3 and his CGI look is my personal favorite of him and not the puppet in V, VI, VIII with the puffier cheeks.
My "house" key is Vader. Five letters and my old landlady is kinda evil and greedy. My "room" key is Yoda (from Ep III). Four letters and I'm in peace inside my room.
2015 -
III
V
VII
IV
VI
I
II
Current rankings is similar to the guy above except I have ROTS higher. And TFA lower. I could flip flop Rogue One, TFA, and TLJ depending on my mood but I feel TFA is the weakest of the three when I used to rank it my #3 fav SW film back in 2015. I don't think Ep 7 & 8 will age very well as time passes.
Current -
V
IV
VI
III
VIII
Rogue One
VII
I
II
Some opinions change for a film. Some remain the same. The guy who kinda looks like Pete Jackson above has kept his opinion the same. Understandable.
Which characters are we crazy about to root for in Episode IX?
Rey
Kylo Ren
Finn
Poe
Rose
BB-8
Chewie, Artoo, Threepio are just there. Back in ROTJ - Han, Leia, Luke, Yoda, Lando, Chewie, a pair of droids, and VADER! We as an audience wanted him to turn back to the good. The villain became the hero at the end because of his love for his son.
For a Star Wars newbie who is watching SW for the first time and has no idea what the stories and characters are prior, TLJ is a decent film to enjoy. For others, divisive. My biggest problem now isn't with the Snoke death scene or how lame Rey and Kylo are to me. It's the inconsistencies and character assassination of Luke Skywalker.
I was never really a fan of Luke before. "The Top 5 Reasons Luke Skywalker Is An Idiot" posted back in 2008 didn't need to convince me. I was always a bit of a scoundrel and rebel as a teen so it only made sense I was a Han fan through and through. Harrison played Han like Humphrey Bogart did in Casablanca. Han doesn't seem to care but he does.
"Look, I ain't in this for your revolution. I'm not in it for you Princess. I expect to be well paid. I'm in it for the money."
Then Han shows up at the end anyway while Vader almost had dead aim at Luke and Vader is an expert pilot. Han had a heart of gold beyond that exterior. Then he risks his life to save Luke in Hoth.
I do adore Mark Hamill as he seems like a fun person." A joker." I know Harrison was the one who became the megastar that Mark and Carrie never got to achieve. I was thinking The Last Jedi was going to help me change my mind on Luke for the better and he would pull off some incredible Jedi master move before his potential exit. He didn't.
Luke being unmotivated after finding out Han was killed from Rey, Leia needing him, and his reluctance to train Rey doesn't make any sense to his character. It doesn't even connect well with TFA and made the scene with Tekka irrelevant as he died for nothing.
Luke is supposed to be about HOPE, and yet, he wasn't. Han's death scene in TFA and the throne room scene with Rey would have been so much better had Luke been there. Luke vs Snoke and Rey vs Kylo in an epic clash. What we got was to cater to Reylo fans.
Episode 1 was written for kids. Lucas said so himself. Episode 4 starred a young adult. Do you see the generational gaps?
This is the Luke Skywalker we know.
The Last Jedi? More like The Lazy Jedi.
Are you employed, sir?
![film-thebiglebowski-1998-thedude-jeffbridges-tops-pendletonshawlcardiganjpg.jpeg]()
The bums lost! You human paraquat!
![dfb69edbf06603422cd736e4dab77fc8--luke-skywalker-costume-mark-hamill.jpg]()
The Last Jedi? More like The Lazy Jedi.
Are you employed, sir?
The bums lost! You human paraquat!
I had some reservations on parts of the movie that has been already answered but overall I enjoyed the movie a lot.
I liked the theme and them sticking with it throughout the movie, finally killing off the old characters for some new fresh blood and especially love movies where the good guys get their butts kicked because it's closer to reality than some defeat the villain every time plots..
What the first Star Wars (aka A New Hope) would have been like had Rian Johnson written the script...
The droid R2D2 escapes and makes its way across the TATOOINE desert in search of OBI WAN KENOBE, an old JEDI MASTER who's former pupil turned to the DARK SIDE and is now hiding in the TATOOINE desert in self imposed exile.
LUKE SKYWALKER pursues his missing droid R2D2 across the desert. SKYWALKER locates the droid but is attacked by SAND PEOPLE and knocked unconscious. Meanwhile OBI WAN KENOBE enters the vicinity and frightens the SAND PEOPLE who immediately flee.
SKYWALKER regains consciousness as OBI WAN KENOBE hovers over him. SKYWALKER explains to the seemingly strange old man that R2D2 claims to be the property of OBI WAN KENOBE and has an urgent message for him.
OBI WAN KENOBE then reveals himself to SKYWALKER, but tells him that he doesn't recall ever owing a droid before. He looks over to R2D2 for a moment, then walks to the droid, picks him up and carries him over to the edge of a nearby cliff. OBI WAN KENOBE then throws R2D2 over the side of the cliff. A startled SKYWALKER runs to the edge of the cliff next to OBI WAN KENOBE and looks down at the remains of R2D2, now a disintegrated pile of electronic bits and pieces. SKYWALKER turns to OBI WAN KENOBE to ask why he threw R2D2 over the cliff but before he has a chance OBI WAN KENOBE turns to him and says: "Now, GO AWAY!"
The droid R2D2 escapes and makes its way across the TATOOINE desert in search of OBI WAN KENOBE, an old JEDI MASTER who's former pupil turned to the DARK SIDE and is now hiding in the TATOOINE desert in self imposed exile.
LUKE SKYWALKER pursues his missing droid R2D2 across the desert. SKYWALKER locates the droid but is attacked by SAND PEOPLE and knocked unconscious. Meanwhile OBI WAN KENOBE enters the vicinity and frightens the SAND PEOPLE who immediately flee.
SKYWALKER regains consciousness as OBI WAN KENOBE hovers over him. SKYWALKER explains to the seemingly strange old man that R2D2 claims to be the property of OBI WAN KENOBE and has an urgent message for him.
OBI WAN KENOBE then reveals himself to SKYWALKER, but tells him that he doesn't recall ever owing a droid before. He looks over to R2D2 for a moment, then walks to the droid, picks him up and carries him over to the edge of a nearby cliff. OBI WAN KENOBE then throws R2D2 over the side of the cliff. A startled SKYWALKER runs to the edge of the cliff next to OBI WAN KENOBE and looks down at the remains of R2D2, now a disintegrated pile of electronic bits and pieces. SKYWALKER turns to OBI WAN KENOBE to ask why he threw R2D2 over the cliff but before he has a chance OBI WAN KENOBE turns to him and says: "Now, GO AWAY!"
Watching the last Jedi is kind of like banging your sister. Some interesting bits here and there but it takes too long, is kind of awkward and weird, but the ending is very satisfying.
... more like stupid and wrong. And the ending was frustrating and left everyone feeling empty.
What I want to know is why there was no Death Star being built
Seriously, what kind of puny empire are they building?
Seriously, what kind of puny empire are they building?
Yeah kids just love movies about trade federations, senate debates, Jedi counsel meetings, and of course the all time favorite subject of every youngster: midi-chlorians!
Yeah, I know. Kids just love that stuff lol. But I wish I was joking when I say Lucas said the prequels are for kids.
That’s not saying kids movies are bad. I get much more enjoyment from the Harry Potter movies due to the older actors than any of the prequels. It’s as if they went out of their way to get good actors lol.
What was so frustrating about the ending? We have hope for a new generation of resistance. I liked it.
Well for one, Luke dies and there was NOTHING satisfying about it. As for the new characters this film portrayed their characters as stagnant or stepping backwards in their arc.
To me, it was disappointing to see what a bunch of losers the original gang turned out to be
And to find that the rebellion is actually worse off now than they were after the original gang kicked the Emperor and Vader's asses
Luke "died" with just as much finality as Yoda and Anakin and Qui-Gon and all the rest "died".
Its not HOW he died becoming one with the force or whatever. You'd think think Luke Skywalker would have had a more fulfilling character arc before he did, instead it was giving Rey 2 out of 3 lessons, finding out that he almost killed his own nephew because of little darkness in him, and force projecting across the galaxy to buy time for resistance to escape out the back cave.
"let go of the past, kill it if you have to." - Kylo Ren
You will definitely enjoy it, but not as much as our Dawgs winning on the 1st!!!!! Go Dawgs!!!!!
I felt that way in the last movie. The rebellion should have been in charge in force awakens and the dark side should have awoken not the other way round
And why did Dern have to stay in the ship to fool the first order anyway? No droids could have stayed? No autopilot setting or remote pilot?
I am a hardcore fan, and absolutely loved the film. Yes there were some cheesy parts but who cares.
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Just saw your input on the movie, to each their own.
I never understood why Han never paid his bounty before Empire. There was a three year gap and Boba Fett was still out to get him. It's like in Back To The Future Part III. Where was the DeLorean that Doc came with in 1885? They only focused on the one Marty came with.
Han Solo is still my hero. He's Jaime Lannister. First two seasons you hate him. By the third season, you start to like him. Han didn't have to save Luke twice. He did anyway. Just like Jaime didn't have to save Brienne twice. He did anyway. Now that's complicated. Not shallow deep like Kylo.
Another plot hole in SW is Anakin never learned how to Force ghost. So even the Sebastian Shaw Force ghost doesn't make any sense or the idea of him having no arms and legs at that age. Anakin was decapitated already by Ep 3.
![7f34d821ac4b7e76db1cdfd5a699c466.jpg]()
The plot holes and bad writing is all over the place in any film but not as frequent or as bad in TLJ...
The Last Jedi
One of the best visually in the saga. The worst in plot and character development.
The stupidity of Rey, Finn, and the last Jedi -
Why does Finn bring in Rose in a trash bag? It was like a trash bag or laundry bag and he was dragging her on the floor like she was garbage or dirty laundry. LMAO! He might have been injured from the crash, but he can't carry her?
I know Kelly Marie Tran isn't the prettiest girl in the world and her character isn't important but have some respect and gratitude. She worshipped Finn in the beginning and then ended up saving his life. Now she gets dragged from the floor like Rian was body shaming her.
Rey's motives didn't make any sense. The first three bridge scenes, she called Ben a monster and a liar. By the last bridge scene, she is assuming Luke wasn't telling the truth? Luke who is the Jesus Christ / Steve Rogers / Clark Kent / Jon Snow of SW is good at lying?
Rey witnessed Han being killed by Kylo Ren. She explained it to Luke. A NEW HOPELESS wasn't motivated by that? Rey just forgot about that and Kylo Ren became her new best friend? The anti father-killer didn't want to straighten out a father-killer?
People crap on Yoda for leaving after his fight in ROTS vs The Emperor in the destruction of the Congress room. But at 877-years old, at least Yoda tried. At least Obi-Wan tried at ANH to face his student. Luke didn't want to attempt it.
If I was Luke, I would be like, "You're kinda cute Rey, hook me up with something something in exchange for some lessons." You don't want to die like a 900 year-old virgin like Yoda. Only time a girl kissed Luke was his sister.
But noooo... The eternal optimist still has no time to train Rey. He just wants to milk weird looking creatures and fish. Fold his wardrobe. Rey should have told Luke that she beat Kylo as a first- time lightsaber user.
Can you help a girl out? Luke, you have a pretty good chance teaming up with her. It's Mary Sue as Cinderella getting a lightsaber and Jedi power instead of a glass slipper she left behind.
"You didn't fail Kylo. Kylo failed you. I won't."
Then Rey leaves the most powerful and only Jedi in the galaxy to go on her little date with Ben. Rey even had time to fix her hair before her Fifty Shades of Rey moment with handcuffs next to Ben inside some elevator for like one minute.
I've only seen it twice. I might hate it even more and it might surpass AOTC and TPM as the worst SW film of all-time as I watch it like 10 more times and as years go by. Only time will tell if it goes down as the worst ever. It is definitely the most divisive.
Some optimism because SW should be looked upon as a book and not comparing chapters. The problem is this chapter doesn't connect much to the entire saga. Ep IX might be so bad, this might look better as time passes. We haven't seen all the pieces to the puzzle yet.
Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, and the entire Disney is ruining SW. I actually don't mind the diversified roles that Kathleen wants because I'm from SoCal and I'm very open-minded. Even Sulu not being straight in Star Trek Beyond didn't bother me.
SW is not always going to be a heterosexual white man story forever and ever. My childhood idols is black and Chinese. What I don't like in films is badly written stories and characters. I know more about Rose in 20 minutes than I know about Rey in two movies.
I think less of Rey, Kylo, Finn and Poe after this film. That's the Top 4 main characters of this trilogy. Rey is even more boring than Padmé and Padmé was basically Mama Corleone that was the twins carrier that was given more to do that wasn't integral to the story.
I don't dislike Finn because he's black. I liked Lando. I dislike Finn because he sucks and adds nothing to the plot. Same with Poe. Do we really need them? Phasma was the Boba Fett clone that wasn't needed either. So many unnecessary characters. And the main ones still doing the stupidest things. Only the droids are doing anything useful.
How they could've improved TLJ -
I didn't mind Canto Bight but they could've made it shorter and not have the running creatures escape. So make it no longer than 5 min long.
DJ isn't really needed in the story.
Lengthen the flashback scene of Luke and Ben. They showed it to us in three different variants in less than 30 seconds. Why not show more like when Ben slaughtered the other students? That potentially could have lasted at least a good 10 min to add more value to the plot and for us to empathize and sympathize for Luke or Ben.
Luke NOT being reluctant to train Rey. Like he would know Rey is more powerful than Kylo and just join her to confront Kylo in physical form. Suicide mission but so was leaving Dagobah to go help save his sister and friends. Obi-Wan went Force ghost in ANH. Masters vs students in a throne room. Father-killer vs anti father-killer.
Not killing Snoke. At least not until the next episode.
Finn actually dying and not being saved by Rose.
No Crait scenes, period. What was the point going there?
No hologram or Force ghost Luke ending. Another gimmicky moment.
I will still watch Episode IX in Dec 2019 but I just won't care so much how it ends anymore. Rey dies, Kylo dies, who cares?
People defending it saying when JJ made it the same, people complain. When Rian does it differently, people complain. It's not being different for the sake of being different. TLJ doesn't connect things anymore and doesn't enhance the audience's concerns for the characters.
It's not your fault, Mark.
Han Solo is still my hero. He's Jaime Lannister. First two seasons you hate him. By the third season, you start to like him. Han didn't have to save Luke twice. He did anyway. Just like Jaime didn't have to save Brienne twice. He did anyway. Now that's complicated. Not shallow deep like Kylo.
Another plot hole in SW is Anakin never learned how to Force ghost. So even the Sebastian Shaw Force ghost doesn't make any sense or the idea of him having no arms and legs at that age. Anakin was decapitated already by Ep 3.
The plot holes and bad writing is all over the place in any film but not as frequent or as bad in TLJ...
The Last Jedi
One of the best visually in the saga. The worst in plot and character development.
The stupidity of Rey, Finn, and the last Jedi -
Why does Finn bring in Rose in a trash bag? It was like a trash bag or laundry bag and he was dragging her on the floor like she was garbage or dirty laundry. LMAO! He might have been injured from the crash, but he can't carry her?
I know Kelly Marie Tran isn't the prettiest girl in the world and her character isn't important but have some respect and gratitude. She worshipped Finn in the beginning and then ended up saving his life. Now she gets dragged from the floor like Rian was body shaming her.
Rey's motives didn't make any sense. The first three bridge scenes, she called Ben a monster and a liar. By the last bridge scene, she is assuming Luke wasn't telling the truth? Luke who is the Jesus Christ / Steve Rogers / Clark Kent / Jon Snow of SW is good at lying?
Rey witnessed Han being killed by Kylo Ren. She explained it to Luke. A NEW HOPELESS wasn't motivated by that? Rey just forgot about that and Kylo Ren became her new best friend? The anti father-killer didn't want to straighten out a father-killer?
People crap on Yoda for leaving after his fight in ROTS vs The Emperor in the destruction of the Congress room. But at 877-years old, at least Yoda tried. At least Obi-Wan tried at ANH to face his student. Luke didn't want to attempt it.
If I was Luke, I would be like, "You're kinda cute Rey, hook me up with something something in exchange for some lessons."
You don't want to die like a 900 year-old virgin like Yoda. Only time a girl kissed Luke was his sister. But noooo... The eternal optimist still has no time to train Rey. He just wants to milk weird looking creatures and fish. Fold his wardrobe. Rey should have told Luke that she beat Kylo as a first- time lightsaber user.
Can you help a girl out? Luke, you have a pretty good chance teaming up with her. It's Mary Sue as Cinderella getting a lightsaber and Jedi power instead of a glass slipper she left behind.
"You didn't fail Kylo. Kylo failed you. I won't."
Then Rey leaves the most powerful and only Jedi in the galaxy to go on her little date with Ben. Rey even had time to fix her hair before her Fifty Shades of Rey moment with handcuffs next to Ben inside some elevator for like one minute.
I've only seen it twice. I might hate it even more and it might surpass AOTC and TPM as the worst SW film of all-time as I watch it like 10 more times and as years go by. Only time will tell if it goes down as the worst ever. It is definitely the most divisive.
Some optimism because SW should be looked upon as a book and not comparing chapters. The problem is this chapter doesn't connect much to the entire saga. Ep IX might be so bad, this might look better as time passes. We haven't seen all the pieces to the puzzle yet.
Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, Rian Johnson, and the entire Disney is ruining SW. I actually don't mind the diversified roles that Kathleen wants because I'm from SoCal and I'm very open-minded. Even Sulu not being straight in Star Trek Beyond didn't bother me.
SW is not always going to be a heterosexual white man story forever and ever. My childhood idols is black and Chinese. What I don't like in films is badly written stories and characters. I know more about Rose in 20 minutes than I know about Rey in two movies.
I think less of Rey, Kylo, Finn and Poe after this film. That's the Top 4 main characters of this trilogy. Rey is even more boring than Padmé and Padmé was basically Mama Corleone that was the twins carrier that was given more to do that wasn't integral to the story.
I don't dislike Finn because he's black. I liked Lando. I dislike Finn because he sucks and adds nothing to the plot. Same with Poe. Do we really need them? Phasma was the Boba Fett clone that wasn't needed either. So many unnecessary characters. And the main ones still doing the stupidest things. Only the droids are doing anything useful.
How they could've improved TLJ -
I didn't mind Canto Bight but they could've made it shorter and not have the running creatures escape. So make it no longer than 5 min long.
DJ isn't really needed in the story.
Lengthen the flashback scene of Luke and Ben. They showed it to us in three different variants in less than 30 seconds. Why not show more like when Ben slaughtered the other students? That potentially could have lasted at least a good 10 min to add more value to the plot and for us to empathize and sympathize for Luke or Ben.
Luke NOT being reluctant to train Rey. Like he would know Rey is more powerful than Kylo and just join her to confront Kylo in physical form. Suicide mission but so was leaving Dagobah to go help save his sister and friends. Obi-Wan went Force ghost in ANH. Masters vs students in a throne room. Father-killer vs anti father-killer.
Not killing Snoke. At least not until the next episode.
Finn actually dying and not being saved by Rose.
No Crait scenes, period. What was the point going there?
No hologram or Force ghost Luke ending. Another gimmicky moment.
I will still watch Episode IX in Dec 2019 but I just won't care so much how it ends anymore. Rey dies, Kylo dies, who cares?
People defending it saying when JJ made it the same, people complain. When Rian does it differently, people complain. It's not being different for the sake of being different. TLJ doesn't connect things anymore and doesn't enhance the audience's concerns for the characters.
It's not your fault, Mark.
I understand many sides of why people like or hate it. Probably means I like it. Besides the length, the parts I don't particularly enjoy, I don't hate. I'll want to watch at least a couple times a year.
Nothing was worse or could possible be worse than witnessing Episode 1 in theatre. But a buddy gave me an epiphany the other day. If not for Episode 1, I'd still keep expecting a great Star Wars. I'll settle for pretty good.