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As a friend once said “how can you be a reformed scoundrel, if you were never one to begin with?”
My impression was that the bounty on Hans Solo was dead or alive, Greedo is holding a gun on Solo and tells him he has been looking forward to this, which I always assumed he meant to kill him to collect the bounty. So what would we expect him to do? Self preservation.

link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_shot_first
 
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My impression was that the bounty on Hans Solo was dead or alive, Greedo is holding a gun on Solo and tells him he has been looking forward to this, which I always assumed he meant to kill him to collect the bounty.

link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_shot_first
Yep, yep, yep.

They messed with the scene to make us think Han shot in self defense.:rolleyes: How is that credible? And Greedo missing at point blank range.:confused: Well, that might be credible, since Stormtroopers are expert marksmano_O in the SW universe and supposedly better shots than Greedo.:D:D:D But nice guys living in the seedy underworld don't last long. Han shooting first shows that he doesn't leave stuff up to chance or Fate. He understands...
quote-what-people-commonly-call-fate-is-mostly-their-own-stupidity-arthur-schopenhauer-58-37-58.jpg
 
My impression was that the bounty on Hans Solo was dead or alive, Greedo is holding a gun on Solo and tells him he has been looking forward to this, which I always assumed he meant to kill him to collect the bounty.

link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_shot_first

Probably, but by shooting first, he looks like more of a bad-ass. From that article: "5] The primary objection to the revision is that it alters Han's initially morally ambiguous character, making his later transition from anti-hero to hero less meaningful.[6] A5] The primary objection to the revision is that it alters Han's initially morally ambiguous character, making his later transition from anti-hero to hero less meaningful."
 
Rogue One was rather good (I hope the Cassian Andor limited series eventually comes out in a format I can own), but that seems like an anomaly now.

Well, 7 and 8 do not exist in my head cannon, though I do appreciate Mark Hamill doing the best he could with the material he was sadly contracted to perform.

I understand 8 was about failures and finding your way out of that, but that was an awful movie period, not just the absolute worst SW ever made.

Anyway, not a fan of JJ Abrams (though I did like the first Star Trek he did), I’ll probably will rent 9.

There are still good comics and novels being released (Mostly prequel related at the moment), and I’ll always have the earlier movies and Rogue One.

I still love Luke, the Jedi and the universe, so no matter what Abrams does with 9, I’ll either accept it or I won’t. I just do not care and not caring is the most damning thing I can say about this trilogy.

Considering 8 was a first draft script that was greenlit, it does not surprise me how much of a stinker it was.
 
Are you joking around a little or did she come out and say some crazy SJW crap?

No. No, she didn't. Bear in mind, it's the continuing yelps of those who aren't comfortable with NOT being the focus of their favorite films. Kennedy & Disney are all about getting every dollar from everyone, and will do what they can to reach audiences they might not have been getting the most money from before. As it is Star Wars is still a non starter in China, which has become at times the most important or 2nd most important to crack.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sta...-why-the-movies-keep-flopping-in-china-2018-8
Disney can never seem to get any of its "Star Wars" movies to do well in China, and an actor from one of its movies knows why.

In a recent interview with JoBlo, Hong Kong action star Donnie Yen, who played Chirrut Îmwe in "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story," gave his take on why it seems that the Middle Kingdom is the only region in the world that doesn't have "Star Wars" fever, and it matches with what some analysts have posited.

"Chinese audiences didn't grow up with 'Star Wars' culture so unfortunately it didn't work," Yen said of the poor "Rogue One" performance there. "Marvel is a lot easier to understand. 'Star Wars,' there's a whole universe out there. Marvel, from the costumes, to the music, to the idols, to the stars, it's much easier to close the gap between the film itself and the audience."

Yen's thoughts mirror what analysts have been telling us for the last year.

"The characters that have become iconic in other countries — in the United States Princess Leia, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo have been elevated to revered cult status — there is no such feeling in China and that has impacted the box office prospects there," comScore box-office analyst Paul Dergarabedian told Business Insider after the release of "The Last Jedi."

"The Middle Kingdom treats 'Star Wars' like a second-class cinematic citizen," Jeff Bock, a senior analyst for Exhibitor Relations, said after the release of "Solo."

But Disney doesn't have that problem with its Marvel properties.

That's killing Disney that after all that money spent, one of the most popular franchises of all time, still can't crack China. Disney is going to continue with it's diversity efforts as long as it seems to increase their ticket sales with wider ranging audiences. For some, that's somehow frightening.

What were the complaints? Was he "too short?";)

The complaints amazingly enough were that he was black. Everyone knows stormtroopers weren't black! o_O Probably the first time in cinematic history that a particular group of individuals screamed the black guy couldn't be the bad guy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...-are-black-stormtroopers-in-star-wars/383259/
Earlier today, it seemed like #BlackStormtrooper might actually eclipse #BlackFriday as a trending topic. That’s because the official trailer that aired Friday for the next film in the Star Wars saga—The Force Awakens, directed by J.J. Abrams and scheduled for release in December 2015—opens on a black man wearing a stormtrooper’s uniform.

The man, who is played by John Boyega (of Attack the Block), pops into view perspiring and panting hard. He is surrounded by desert: in all likelihood the rolling dunes of Tatooine, the homeworld of both Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. And he appears to be in trouble.

Maybe the only people more alarmed than Boyega by his circumstances were commenters surprised by the sight of a black man’s head emerging from the white plate armor of an Imperial stormtrooper. People on Reddit compared the trailer to a scene from the 1987 Mel Brooks spoof Space Balls, a gag that plays up a black stormtrooper as jive-talkin’. In other threads and on Twitter, some people registered mere racist shock. But a few corners of the Internet turned to the internal logic of the Star Wars universe to appeal the presence of a black stormtrooper. Didn’t the prequels reveal that all stormtroopers were white clones?

No, they didn't. In Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, the Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi travels to the secretive planet of Kamino, where he discovers the existence of a clone army that would feed the so-called Clone Wars and eventually serve as the model for the evil Galactic Empire’s stormtrooper infantry. (Spoiler alert: Don’t watch the prequels.) Those clones weren’t white in any sense of the word. Jango Fett, the bounty hunter who served as the genetic template, was culturally (and perhaps ethnically) a Mandalorian. And the actor who portrays him, Temuera Derek Morrison, is a New Zealand-born person of brown skin and partial Maori descent.

Even if Morrison and Fett (and all of his clones) choose to pass as white, by the time of the events of Episode IV: A New Hope, the Empire has been recruiting from general populations for years. That’s why it makes sense that a young Luke Skywalker, lured by a galaxy larger than the humble moisture farm he calls home on Tatooine, dreams of enlisting in the Imperial Navy.
 
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My own background: My first memory is of Vader opening his pod in Empire Strikes Back -- and as an adult I got to study writing for film with the man who put it on celluloid in the first place. I grew up with Star Wars and had many of the toys. I used to watch the movies with my father just about any time they were on television, and then on VHS when we got a VCR. I became a novelist and explored screenwriting, went to USC for both, took enough classes in the latter to decide to focus on the former. My favorite Star Wars moment is probably when, during class, Kersh was talking about improvisation and writing on the fly, collaborating with actors to change dialogue.

"And there was one character who said, 'I love you,' and he was supposed to respond 'I'll be back,' and it just wasn't working. So we started talking it through, and he had this wonderful idea, and when she said 'I love you,' he just said 'I know,' and it worked! Because he knew the character!"

He never mentioned the characters' names. But we knew.

Anyway.

Neither Star Wars nor Disney needs redemption. Provided, I would have encouraged a tad more editing, particularly on the casino planet, but I truly thought it was, note for note, up there with the original trilogy in terms of how well it was crafted and the story itself put together. I think I'd put it at third among all the installments, just ahead of Return of the Jedi, and it would be farther ahead with that better editing.

My favorite part was Luke's early line where he asks Rey if she expects him to just take on the Empire with nothing but a laser sword -- and then that's exactly what he does. It was such a brilliant pay off.

I think that idea of pay off is important, though. People seem to forget on what a somber note Empire ended and with such a cliffhanger. Luke had just lost his hand, the major revelation of his bloodline, Han in carbonite . . . it's gutting. The Last Jedi wasn't so gutting, but it was certainly somber (to see Luke pass on into the Force) and Rey coming into her Force powers herself.

And as much as I thought the casino sequence could be sliced and diced, it introduced two really powerful ideas. First with the idea that the Force can be a question of sensitivity, and maybe it's not midichlorians or parental lineage. Maybe it's partly random and partly training -- and sets up movement of the story beyond the Skywalker family and into a broader and more exciting universe. And second with the idea Benicio del Toro's character introduces regarding the Empire, Rebellion, and war.

I haven't seen Solo yet, but I seriously can't wait for IX.
 
My thinking as well. Solo was "just ok" but I've ranged from "love" (Rogue One) to "like" on the films. They're a trillion times better than the prequels IMO.
Surely you exaggerate just a bit. :p I'd accept 1000 times better.

Anyhow, I agree about Rogue One - fantastic film and one that hit me in the feels at the end.
 
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Rogue One is like watching the real Star Wars Episode 3. :D

Oh, what if this HAD been the case, but there had still been three prequels:
  • One prequel that tells the story of Anakin Skywalker, from young child to birth of Vader.
  • One prequel that functioned as a political thriller explaining the origins of the Empire vs the Rebellion in the context of the Jedi/Sith construct, including Palpatine's usurpation of power.
  • Rogue One.

I really think that part of the problem with the prequels was that it stretched what would have easily been one movie into three, but then still left whole swaths of story unexplored. Nothing really made great sense and all we really learned about Anakin was that he didn't like sand.

That could have led into the original trilogy, with the current trilogy wrapping up the Skywalker saga WHILE resolving the Sith/Empire conflict. IX could have been Rey and Kylo training together under Leia to bring balance to the Force (and universe).

(And, for that matter, still could be. With some Force ghost Luke, Obi-Wan, AND Anakin for good measure. Imagine how it would affect Kylo to commune with Vader . . . only to discover Anakin.)

ETA - That political thriller prequel could have been the story of Obi-Wan -- a Ben Kenobi/James Bond-esque sort of story. And thereby set up what happened to him between Sith and New Hope.
 
Oh, what if this HAD been the case, but there had still been three prequels:
  • One prequel that tells the story of Anakin Skywalker, from young child to birth of Vader.
  • One prequel that functioned as a political thriller explaining the origins of the Empire vs the Rebellion in the context of the Jedi/Sith construct, including Palpatine's usurpation of power.
  • Rogue One.

I really think that part of the problem with the prequels was that it stretched what would have easily been one movie into three, but then still left whole swaths of story unexplored. Nothing really made great sense and all we really learned about Anakin was that he didn't like sand.

That could have led into the original trilogy, with the current trilogy wrapping up the Skywalker saga WHILE resolving the Sith/Empire conflict. IX could have been Rey and Kylo training together under Leia to bring balance to the Force (and universe).

(And, for that matter, still could be. With some Force ghost Luke, Obi-Wan, AND Anakin for good measure. Imagine how it would affect Kylo to commune with Vader . . . only to discover Anakin.)

ETA - That political thriller prequel could have been the story of Obi-Wan -- a Ben Kenobi/James Bond-esque sort of story. And thereby set up what happened to him between Sith and New Hope.
I like that. :)
In my view, the problem with Episides 1-3 was not the basis of these stories, but the telling of them, the chosen content, and mostly episode 3. I was really disgusted at how it showed Anakin turn to the dark side. I never bought it as displayed. And I was infuriated when Obiwon did not finish him off when the opportunity laid before him. :)
 
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So the trailer for episode 9 is out. I like it. Seems like it’s heading back in the direction Abrams set out for episode 7 (at least visually) and teases at least one surprise. I’m squarely in the camp that views episode 8 as a pretty big stinker and left nothing for anyone to draw upon for anticipation of what might happen in the next episode. So it might have the unintended benefit of letting Abrams ignore episode 8 in the same way episode 8 either ignored or quickly disposed of what episode 7 tried to set up. We’ll see.
 
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The parts people are most excited about in Episode 9 (OT shoutouts), are the parts that don't have anything to do with the garbage of Episode 7 and 8.
 
That's the thing, it might have - and there was some explanation given in other official media. As someone who did all my university studies in history I know everytime an empire or large polity falls, especially a dictatorship, it can get messy. Considering the galaxy went through two devastating wars with a brutal regime in-between it's "realistic" to see something like a First Order inspired by the idea of Nazis setting up a regime in South America after their defeat. Or we could have left the happy ending and gone with your idea set a century later.

The worst about this though is the reaction of fans, I honestly don't care if people have a different subjective opinion than mine but there is a really toxic group of fans who didn't like the sequels, in particular TLJ, for all the wrong reasons. Any criticism now is lumped in with these fans and it is disheartening.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you referring to some of the criticism that was thrown towards a few of the characters based on who or what they are?

I thought the movie was absolute garbage. Slow speed chase through space and the General mary popping it through space, give me a freaking break. From that point on, the movie lost me and never got me back. I have only seen it once and that was enough for me.

I have low expectations for Episode 9, very low expectations. I liked JJ's last outing, it was tolerable, not my favorite, but definitely not my least favorite.
 
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Can you elaborate on this? Are you referring to some of the criticism that was thrown towards a few of the characters based on who or what they are?

I thought the movie was absolute garbage. Slow speed chase through space and the General mary popping it through space, give me a freaking break. From that point on, the movie lost me and never got me back. I have only seen it once and that was enough for me.

I have low expectations for Episode 9, very low expectations. I liked JJ's last outing, it was tolerable, not my favorite, but definitely not my least favorite.
I meant they were screaming about "the SJWs" are taking over and attacking the role of female leads for being female and threatening white men. This is some what I have read...
 
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I am cautiously optimistic for Episode IX

I have to admit though, the end of the trailer gave me goosebumps :D
I am pessimistic about episode 9 based on what came before it, weak writing based on way to many recycled ideas. I believe fans did not want to relive episodes 4-6, at least not story wise, they wanted the Star Wars magic achieved with Rogue One, but to be taken into a fresh new Star Wars adventure they could love, like a child. Imo, so far, they have not gotten that.

I blame Abrams and Disney. They had all the opportunity and the budget, but they just did not have it in them to forge into new original territory, too risky I guess, so let’s fall back on what worked before. In the process they short changed the SWs Universe, to fill their purses. Story purity? HaHa, who needs that? :eek:
 
I am pessimistic about episode 9 based on what came before it, weak writing based on way to many recycled ideas. I believe fans did not want to relive episodes 4-6, at least not story wise, they wanted the Star Wars magic achieved with Rogue One, but to be taken into a fresh new Star Wars adventure they could love, like a child. Imo, so far, they have not gotten that.

I blame Abrams and Disney. They had all the opportunity and the budget, but they just did not have it in them to forge into new original territory, too risky I guess, so let’s fall back on what worked before. In the process they short changed the SWs Universe, to fill their purses. Story purity? HaHa, who needs that? :eek:

I think that people view the old movies with rose colored glasses. Too many people also feel entitled, they think the story should go the way they think.

Objectively, there's nothing really visionary about Star Wars. The only truly visionary thing that Lucas did was holding on to the merchandising rights. The story itself is a mix or inspiration of a bunch of already existing stories except that the setting is changed to space.

Rogue One was good but not because it had some kind of magic in it or a great story, it was good because it had good performances by the actors. Also because a 90 seconds or so scene redeemed Vader despite the fact that Lucas has spent 3 movies completely destroying the characters' legacy.
 
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