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Star Wars the Upcoming Episode 9: Redemption for Disney?

Number-Six said:
I think that people view the old movies with rose colored glasses. Too many people also feel entitled, they think the story should go the way they think.

Objectively, there's nothing really visionary about Star Wars. The only truly visionary thing that Lucas did was holding on to the merchandising rights. The story itself is a mix or inspiration of a bunch of already existing stories except that the setting is changed to space.

Rogue One was good but not because it had some kind of magic in it or a great story, it was good because it had good performances by the actors. Also because a 90 seconds or so scene redeemed Vader despite the fact that Lucas has spent 3 movies completely destroying the characters' legacy.
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Ok, not arguing or implying you are arguing, just opinions. :) But it does not matter what came before, Star Wars 1-6 stands as an original story in it’s universe. Episodes 7&8 are rehashes of 4-6 with slight variances, not original in any way, shape, or form, just massaged into a repeat story variance that takes the place of a frick’n new path, a golden opportunity missed. Episodes 7&8 equals been there, done that.

Now I’ll say something optimistic. There is always a chance Star Wars will find it’s way, after telling Luke Skywalker’s story over where he is a girl and destroying ep6’s happy ending. I don’t plan on seeing ep9 in the theater unless there is something more than the obligatory You Gotta See This commercial hook rhetoric. :)
 
Number-Six said:
I think that people view the old movies with rose colored glasses. Too many people also feel entitled, they think the story should go the way they think.

Objectively, there's nothing really visionary about Star Wars. The only truly visionary thing that Lucas did was holding on to the merchandising rights. The story itself is a mix or inspiration of a bunch of already existing stories except that the setting is changed to space.

Rogue One was good but not because it had some kind of magic in it or a great story, it was good because it had good performances by the actors. Also because a 90 seconds or so scene redeemed Vader despite the fact that Lucas has spent 3 movies completely destroying the characters' legacy.
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I think people remember the originals through rose-colored memories, but if you actually watch them, they stand up well. I saw IV last year with a live score provided by a symphony, and have tickets to see V in the same way later this year. I groaned when I realized that the version we were going to see was "restored" (with, e.g., Jabba), but it was a legitimately great experience and made it come alive in a way that the movies hadn't in ages. My Apple Watch actually gave me a notification because I got so excited during the climactic run that my heartrate rose.

Objectively, IV is a pretty amazing telling of the Hero's Journey mythic structure. And continues to be straight through VI, which I don't think is any small feat given that I don't think Lucas knew he'd be making more after IV. I mean, I'm sure he probably hoped to, but it was certainly not for sure.

All stories are basically a mix or inspiration of a bunch of already existing stories. That's basically the point of art, writing, and storytelling. Just ask Shakespeare.
 
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decafjava said:
I meant they were screaming about "the SJWs" are taking over and attacking the role of female leads for being female and threatening white men. This is some what I have read...
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That is what I thought you meant. Just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly. This was also mentioned in Episode 7 also. But I hear yeah.
 
Number-Six said:
Also because a 90 seconds or so scene redeemed Vader despite the fact that Lucas has spent 3 movies completely destroying the characters' legacy.
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And the "improvements" to the original trilogy also. I hate how Lucas changed the end of Return of the Jedi so that Vader's force ghost is Hayden Christensen.
 
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MisterSavage said:
And the "improvements" to the original trilogy also. I hate how Lucas changed the end of Return of the Jedi so that Vader's force ghost is Hayden Christensen.
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Yeah I'm not much of a fan of the improvements either.

It's one thing to "remaster" in order to clean up an old movie, but to change entire scenes is just weird.
 
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Number-Six said:
Yeah I'm not much of a fan of the improvements either.

It's one thing to "remaster" in order to clean up an old movie, but to change entire scenes is just weird.
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Definitely. At the beginning of RotJ they ripped out the fun musical band part and replaced it with a cringe-worthy scene also.
 
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I pretend that Ep. 1-3 never happened, they were that bad. I really liked Ep. 7, it had that warmth and nostalgia, it was just good enough. Ep. 8, while not as terrible as 1-3, was a big let down. To me, Ep. 7 was a bit like Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (i.e. rather good and interesting), while Ep. 8 was as bad/boring/confused/dissapointing as Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (broken, inconsistent, and boring). I had high expectations for Rogue One since everyone was praising it and it was just meh. Solo was ok.
 
Huntn said:
I blame Abrams and Disney. They had all the opportunity and the budget, but they just did not have it in them to forge into new original territory, too risky I guess, so let’s fall back on what worked before.
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You're overthinking it. It's flash, bang children's entertainment. Cowboy movies with laser six-shooters and laser swords. The fact that you're taking it seriously is actually a compliment to how well they're doing it.
 
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Vjosullivan said:
You're overthinking it. It's flash, bang children's entertainment. Cowboy movies with laser six-shooters and laser swords. The fact that you're taking it seriously is actually a compliment to how well they're doing it.
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Entertainment is entertainment subject to analysis.

In this case, it’s a complement directed at episodes 4-6 on how good they were and criticism directed at all the rest at how badly they failed, especially because of calculations by the Disney team to make money, which is not the failure I’m talking about, because they made a lot of money, yet they failed, short changing the story, the important part? IMO. :) So yes, entertainment can be taken seriously enough to be applauded or critiqued.
 
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Geez I mean 2500 years ago people were sitting around in Athens listening to a blind guy chant verse about Greeks fighting Trojans. Further south people were hearing about a dude who was killed and chopped up yet came back to life (Osiris if you didn't get the reference). Myth and entertainment were and are interchangeable, and loads of scholarly work has been done on it.
 
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Apple fanboy said:
I’m a diehard fan. I’ll watch SW films regardless. Just wish they had gone a different direction. More like the expanded universe.
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I’d love a Dawn of the Jedi series myself: Lok and Xesh still are favorite characters of mine (Still annoyed that series was cancelled while the creative team were in the middle of creating book 4.)

Ah well.

I still love certain things about the SW universe, but never kept up with with anything beyond the movies, and an occasional comic or novel.
 
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kazmac said:
I’d love a Dawn of the Jedi series myself: Lok and Xesh still are favorite characters of mine (Still annoyed that series was cancelled while the creative were in the middle of creating book 4.)

Ah well.

I still love certain things about the SW universe, but never kept with with anything beyond the movies and an occasional comic or novel.
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You mentioned Rogue One. It was uncanny how that story was so drenched in the Star Wars vibe and ecosystem, everything about it. It felt like stepping back in time to watch a lost archive. Solo was nearly ok, but a miss imo. It started it’s existence as a comedy, really?

Now if someone would just write a worthy new chapter, instead of recycling what has already occurred... :(
 
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Apple fanboy said:
I’m a diehard fan. I’ll watch SW films regardless. Just wish they had gone a different direction. More like the expanded universe.
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I too wish they would have gone this route. There is so much out there they could have used, or heck give us something new in the universe and not a re-hash of Ep4 with Ep7 only to follow up with the monstrosity known as 8. That is my opinion.

Rogue One is one of my favorites and I am excited to see "The Mandalorian".
 
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Vjosullivan said:
You're overthinking it. It's flash, bang children's entertainment. Cowboy movies with laser six-shooters and laser swords. The fact that you're taking it seriously is actually a compliment to how well they're doing it.
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Many would disagree. I know for a fact Kersh did. The fact that you think they're "flash, bang children's entertainment" is a compliment to how well they're creating modern mythology.

Which I think speaks to some of the later comments, about direction and "recycling what has already occurred." Because I don't see that as what VII and VIII are doing. IV through IX seem to be Luke's hero's journey -- and that wasn't complete during Jedi.

I get the feeling these final three are the atonement phase. Luke refused the return, and VIII sure felt like a step toward atonement, crossing thresholds, and the idea of being master of two worlds.

Anybody who thinks Luke "died" in The Last Jedi hasn't been watching the Star Wars saga closely enough. We hear "conquered death" over and over again -- particularly with Darth Plagueis. Luke didn't die. He became one with the Force. He achieved enlightenment, attained nirvana, found inner peace -- whatever you'd like to call it and however you'd like to spin it. The flapping away of his robe was an act of triumph, but it damn sure wasn't his finale one.

The Rise of Skywalker seems like the final act of the journey. The hero shares the boon with the world -- and makes way for the next generation. Also, these movies are laying the groundwork for world expansion. That's what The Last Jedi did in its final shots, with the kid and the broom.

I still don't know what movie those who disliked The Last Jedi watched. It sure wasn't the one I saw, which had surprising humor, breathtaking moments, and a climactic final hour that's among the best in the franchise overall.

The whole point of the hero's journey monomyth is that it's not recycled but resonant. It's basically the humanity story.
 
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@willentrekin that's about as thorough and thoughtful defence of the sequels as I have seen here. Well done. I still don't completely agree but we know a lot of this has a strong subjective element.

I for one dislike most of the changes to the OT except say adding Ian McDiarmid's face to ESB.
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grad said:
I pretend that Ep. 1-3 never happened, they were that bad.
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Even Ian McDiarmid's performance? Sorry it stands out and has to be recognised as one of the bright spots not only of the prequels but the whole saga.
 
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grad said:
I pretend that Ep. 1-3 never happened, they were that bad. I really liked Ep. 7, it had that warmth and nostalgia, it was just good enough. Ep. 8, while not as terrible as 1-3, was a big let down. To me, Ep. 7 was a bit like Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (i.e. rather good and interesting), while Ep. 8 was as bad/boring/confused/dissapointing as Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (broken, inconsistent, and boring). I had high expectations for Rogue One since everyone was praising it and it was just meh. Solo was ok.
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I liked 1-3 better than 7-8. Neither series though, holds a candle to 4-6. I really enjoyed Rogue One. And Solo was terrible.
 
kazmac said:
I’d love a Dawn of the Jedi series myself: Lok and Xesh still are favorite characters of mine (Still annoyed that series was cancelled while the creative team were in the middle of creating book 4.)

Ah well.

I still love certain things about the SW universe, but never kept up with with anything beyond the movies, and an occasional comic or novel.
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I read all the Novels. To me that’s the legacy of the SW universe.
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rhett7660 said:
I too wish they would have gone this route. There is so much out there they could have used, or heck give us something new in the universe and not a re-hash of Ep4 with Ep7 only to follow up with the monstrosity known as 8. That is my opinion.

Rogue One is one of my favorites and I am excited to see "The Mandalorian".
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I’m not expecting much. Set low expectations then you don’t get disappointed.
Rogue one was excellent.
 
Get your flaks ready:

Return of the Jedi was the worst of them all. Same story as New Hope just a different setting plus some Wombles^H^H Fraggels^H^H Ewoks added for those under the age of 5.

And the end, Vader killed billions and gets redeemed cos he somehow had scruples killing his son? Try to put a real life monster (Hitler,Stalin,Mao....) into that frame and you notice how pathetic that is.
 
Bug-Creator said:
Get your flaks ready:

Return of the Jedi was the worst of them all. Same story as New Hope just a different setting plus some Wombles^H^H Fraggels^H^H Ewoks added for those under the age of 5.

And the end, Vader killed billions and gets redeemed cos he somehow had scruples killing his son? Try to put a real life monster (Hitler,Stalin,Mao....) into that frame and you notice how pathetic that is.
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Technically, it's Tarkin that killed billions, not Vader (at least, on screen).

But I like how you think :D
 
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