Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[pmz]

Hmm... Yeah. Can't wait for all those professionals and students to stop using Creative Suite on Macs

I don't think anyone is about to stop using Photoshop or Illustrator. The rest of the creative suite user base goes down exponentially when you stop counting those users..

I have CS3, that I bought several years ago, and I have no plans on ever upgrading it. This edition of Photoshop suits my needs perfectly and it's performance in Snow Leopard is more than adequate.

Adobe really insulted its user base repackaging CS3 as CS4 and "dropping support" for CS3, but thats not here nor there. No one should be buying CS4 or the hypothetical CS5 whenever it comes out, not while cs3 DVDs can be found on Ebay for a $100. Adobe has not innovated in 5 years.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

When I read that Mac's are going to be on a whole new level in 2010, I thought, damn, will have to wait a whole year then. But it's 2010 now . Hope that includes the iMac's.

They're referring to the rumored 'touch screen' iMacs coming this year, that's why its going to the next level. I think they're going 'all out' on touchscreen capabilities and probably a touch-screen LCD built for Mac Minis and Power Mac desktops to complement the iMacs.

 

[fat phil]

You sir are 100% right...

But you see, it is very hard to explain some simple facts to the masses in this forums who obviously don't need anything else but Fart Aps, HTML sites and Steve The Profit to satisfy all their digital dreams

Seriously - Apple is giving up on Pro market and moving ever further towards casual... With this fact in mind it wouldn't surprise me at all if I am forced to switch to Windows in few years time...

I truly wish to stick with Mac but things are getting increasingly difficult

It is becoming very frustrating. The consumer market is getting all the attention, and while I love the new gadgets, and I even profit from them, I could appreciate the value in pursuing it a lot more if there were signs of all this new-found wealth and technology was being passed onto their increasingly over-valued top-end product lines.

Sure, every year Mac Pros get faster, but that's thanks to better silicon from Intel, and nothing to do with Apple. All they do is swap out a chipset and wriggle a few components around on the motherboard; maybe slap in a new video card. Has innovation died for those of us who put Apple on the map?

I hate having the bitch in me dragged out, but some things really do get my goat up.

Even if Jobs said they were working on Blu-Ray I'd be happy, but no, it's not even on his radar. Because, now, Apple is a Mobile company. FFS.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

I don't think anyone is about to stop using Photoshop or Illustrator. The rest of the creative suite user base goes down exponentially when you stop counting those users..

I have CS3, that I bought several years ago, and I have no plans on ever upgrading it. This edition of Photoshop suits my needs perfectly and it's performance in Snow Leopard is more than adequate.

Adobe really insulted its user base repackaging CS3 as CS4 and "dropping support" for CS3, but thats not here nor there. No one should be buying CS4 or the hypothetical CS5 whenever it comes out, not while cs3 DVDs can be found on Ebay for a $100. Adobe has not innovated in 5 years.

OMG...

Amount of utterly clueless people here is amazing!

Haven't you heard for example that Flash CS5 will be able to export projects as APPLICATIONS DIRECTLY TO iPHONE / iPOD T / iPAD ?

And what about Dreamweaver?

And what about After Effects?

And what about In Design... etc... etc... etc... etc... etc... etc....

I mean... Honestly... hahahahahaha

 

[Compile 'em all]

This isn't Apple being selfish, it's Apple looking out for the best user experience in every application.

iPhone applications have to run in available memory - they're sandboxed from the OS, and there is no scratch disk.

This is basically a "you can't have your cake and eat it" situation. You can either have the best applications for this form factor, or you can have the multi-tasking how-long-till-everything-crawls-then-stops instability that Symbian users have been experiencing for years.

Personally I'd rather have good apps that are able to use all the available memory without worrying about cannibalisation. If you need multi-tasking, then sure, you need something else.

Dude, you are talking to the deaf. Non here gets the fact that flash has and always have been a horrendous piece of web technology. On a desktop OS like Mac OS X running on a dual core machine, wasted CPU cycles and memory is not much of an issue. However, when you start moving to a device with limited resources (battery, CPU, memory) like the iPhone and iPad, the playground completely changes. Especially when the user experience (aka being super fast, slick, and stable) is second to the industrial design of the device. Words like, "good enough" or "it is okay" or "it runs acceptably.." don't exist in Apple's dictionary. And they have a point. If it doesn't work perfectly, it is not worth using.

Apple is very well aware that Flash never worked properly on Mac OS X, so it is easy to understand why both the iPhone and iPad don't support it. For some mysterious reason though, 99.9% of the posters here think that Apple doesn't have flash support because they like "annoying their customers" or "not giving them what they want".

If it is good technology you would have found it on the iPhone from day one. There are tons of open sources projects included in the core of OS X (e.g. webkit).

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

It is becoming very frustrating. The consumer market is getting all the attention, and while I love the new gadgets, and I even profit from them, I could appreciate the value in pursuing it a lot more if there were signs of all this new-found wealth and technology was being passed onto their increasingly over-valued top-end product lines.

Sure, every year Mac Pros get faster, but that's thanks to better silicon from Intel, and nothing to do with Apple. All they do is swap out a chipset and wriggle a few components around on the motherboard; maybe slap in a new video card. Has innovation died for those of us who put Apple on the map?

I hate having the bitch in me dragged out, but some things really do get my goat up.

Even if Jobs said they were working on Blu-Ray I'd be happy, but no, it's not even on his radar. Because, now, Apple is a Mobile company. FFS.

Sure...

My sister company is video business and we all use Macs and frustration is growing on daily bases and slowly reaching boiling point

Although personally, I don't have need for BR , all I have to do is either think about it for a second or ask my partner in business to realise how utterly **** situation is...

Same goes with Flash, I understand that some people don't need it or hate it, but some simply MUST have it...

And no, you do NOT say - no to BR or Flash just because you think its crap. Instead you offer those features as OPTIONAL things and let your customers decide...

Steve needs to retire and let younger guys take the driving wheel asap.

 

[elppa]

Apple spent 5x years fiddling around trying to get the classic emulation layer to work because Adobe and others didn't want to "risk" porting their Apps (apps which they made a lot of money from) to Mac OS X.

And then Adobe ended up bringing their apps across anyway.

- Slow to support Mac OS X (Apple's solution: Classic Environment)
- Slow to get Universal Binaries available for Mac OS X (Apple's solution: Rosetta)
- Slow to get 64 bit on Mac OS X
- Poor Flash performance on Mac OS X (Apple's solution: Plugin sandboxing)

And there's always people ready to tell me how it's always all Apple's fault.
My sympathy for Adobe is weaning.

 

[MacBram]

Did you even read the post?
If it comes to "the internet" of course it is gonna be about the number of page visits from a certain platform. If that number is high the webmaster better makes sure his website works fine .. otherwise, he will not bother.
So yes there will be some pages that will change their appearance due to many mobile safari visits .. however thinking that Apple is singlehandedly killing flash is ridiculous given the market share it has.

And last time I checked flash worked fine on my mac and steve can not tell me what to do here .. so I don't quite get the point of mentioning the desktop/laptop variants.
T.

Had I read it better, then I would have seen that his stats were wrong, as an intervening post has pointed out in the meantime. I assumed the 0.64 noted was for browsers on all OSs as he should have realized was more likely, and not just for mobile devices as he stated. Hence my mention of non-mobile variants.

So, I was more taking issue with his whole 0.64 argument being in any way significant in light of the far more significant browsing habits of those 0.64, than I was arguing that Apple would quickly and single-handedly "kill off" Flash. If anyone significantly contributes to the irrelevance and the death of Flash, then, yes, that is likely to be Apple, and I wouldn't bemoan it. But I don't agree that Apple is pursuing this single-mindedly to the detriment of its products and consumer choice; I don't think Apple's number one objective is to kill off Flash as quickly as possible. But I think it will happen because Flash is not suited to an advancing, standards-based internet.

I do think Apple (without Flash) already enables and supports a lot more web activity of all types than their marketshare of mobile devices and computers would lead one to suppose. I do think that browsing habits will in general change -- I think that more and more browsing will be done on mobile devices, and thus browsing on mobile devices will become an ever more significant share of browsing as a whole. Apple has led in this, and will continue to do so -- since such is the case, the browsing habits of those using Apple mobile devices is even more significant, despite the actual numbers of people using an Apple browser period, whether on laptop, desktop or otherwise. Three million new Macs were just sold, and upwards of 10 million iPhones and iPod Touches, you do the math. Therefore, I think it will be a little more than "a cosmetic page change" that web developers should be concerning themselves with.

Not to mention... Dedicated Apps! The average web surfer will begin to find that more sites are more fun and more interactive with a dedicated iPhone-type app than any "Flash site" ever was. Facebook, Twitter, News and media outlets, you name it, "there's an app for that". It will only get more obvious. The demo of the Baseball app was pretty interesting, and I don't even like baseball.

Also, as the average person wants to do more of their own publishing than just Picasa or Flikr and other social services, they will find that Apple has been doing more for less effort all along (with things like iWeb and Mobile Me and other hobbies). They will find that developers will have created more solutions for publishing from Apple devices and that Apple platforms have better options that are more fun for more people to produce their own material. Where is Adobe in this space? (I might have bet on Macromedia, but I don't count on Adobe; anyway, who actually creates these days with Flash besides lazy web developers, graphic arts students or corporations that don't keep up with standards?. Certainly not *serious* web-page developers). About 13 years ago, I was making interactive CD-ROMs with Flash. That was great... then. Flash should not have transitioned from the interactive CD-ROM to the web. It was a bit of a stop-gap, a gimick, but little else.

So, I am glad Flash works fine on your desktop Mac. Go back to your shoot-em-up or racing game and never mind me. But I start to hear the fan on my PowerMac when Flash comes up, so I have turned Flash off and don't miss the ads or the lame "interactivity" -- it doesn't add any value whatsoever to my eclectic web browsing (and most here are saying that it really wouldn't be missed).

Again, Apple doesn't have to "kill" it -- they just have to continue on with their plan of making it irrelevant (through using web standards); and they don't need to include it if they don't want to. If it's a make-it-or-break-it big deal for you, don't get an Apple mobile device. The world will go on without Flash. If it was a choice between Flash and Apple, well, you know what I would prefer, but we'll let the market decide.

 

[brewcitywi]

Cool

I wish that, other than the digs on the competition, that these
things were stated during the keynote!

It totally makes clear a few of the questions on apple.

In taking macs to the next level, I wonder if they would use a more robust flash chip that they developed for the ipad.

 

[Erwin-Br]

- Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with

And this, my friends, is why I love competition! I hope Google will succeed in staying competitive, because it will benefit both Mac AND Google users. We don't need monopolies. Go Google! Go Apple!

I still think it's a mistake to punish Adobe. Like it or don't, but they lead the creative software industry with Photoshop and Illustrator, and you don't want to piss them off. There's a reason why Flash runs like crap on a Mac, while it just works on a PC. There's a reason why Photoshop and other CS-Suite apps run better on a PC, without being limited to 3 or 4 GB of RAM. Kiss and make up, you two!

 

[steve-p]

Had I read it better, then I would have seen that his stats were wrong, as an intervening post has pointed out in the meantime. I assumed the 0.64 noted was for browsers on all OSs, and not just mobile devices. Hence the mention of non-mobile variants.

Well then maybe you might like to read the other intervening posts. It was nothing to do with mobile browsing.

 

[WilliamLondon]

the masses in this forums who obviously don't need anything else but Fart Aps, HTML sites and Steve The Profit to satisfy all their digital dreams

And if Fart Apps and HTML sites make people happy what is the problem? If this product fulfils people's needs and wants (and it does - I want this product because it satisfies all my requirements in a product), what is the problem? I'm not interested in people telling me I'm an idiot for misunderstanding my own needs and wants. What I am interested in knowing, however, from those who don't like this product as I do, what would make it more interesting to you? Or is there a fundamental issue with the product in general?

 

[fat phil]

Dude, you are talking to the deaf. Non here gets the fact that flash has and always have been a horrendous piece of web technology. On a desktop OS like Mac OS X running on a dual core machine, wasted CPU cycles and memory is not much of an issue. However, when you start moving to a device with limited resources (battery, CPU, memory) like the iPhone and iPad, the playground completely changes. Especially when the user experience (aka being super fast, slick, and stable) is second to the industrial design of the device. Words like, "good enough" or "it is okay" or "it runs acceptably.." don't exist in Apple's dictionary. And they have a point. If it doesn't work perfectly, it is not worth using.

Apple is very well aware that Flash never worked properly on Mac OS X, so it is easy to understand why both the iPhone and iPad don't support it. For some mysterious reason though, 99.9% of the posters here think that Apple doesn't have flash support because they like "annoying their customers" or "not giving them what they want".

If it is good technology you would have found it on the iPhone from day one. There are tons of open sources projects included in the core of OS X (e.g. webkit).

Heh I was actually talking about multi-tasking, but yes the same logic can be applied to Flash.

Someone challenged me recently over the next iteration of Flash - the XML-based HTML5 exporter. I've not followed Adobes plans for Flash for a while, so I don't know what this is about, but if it were truly Flash-in-HTML5 then I don't know why Adobe are kicking up such a fuss. Maybe it's just hard to put your toys back in the box once you've already thrown them all over the floor...

Flash isn't the main problem though; it's the inefficiency of Flash content. You can avoid the buggy stuff if you know what you're doing. "Keep It Simple, Stupid" doesn't seem to be present in the Flash authoring tooltips. Hell, you can crash anything if you push hard enough. We'll see what the next 24 months brings...

 

[IntelliUser]

Adobe has not innovated in 5 years.

That's not true. The CS4 version has brought a lot of improvements over its apps, some of which really help saving time in professional workflows.

I assume you mean as far as the consumer cares, in which case you're totally right, with piracy and consumers rarely upgrading, professionals are the only ones who're really enriching Adobe.

Strangely enough, it's the second time I write this message. Because while writing it, I decided to go to adobe's website, and it's Flash player first froze and then crashed Safari.

It is becoming very frustrating. The consumer market is getting all the attention, and while I love the new gadgets, and I even profit from them, I could appreciate the value in pursuing it a lot more if there were signs of all this new-found wealth and technology was being passed onto their increasingly over-valued top-end product lines.

Sure, every year Mac Pros get faster, but that's thanks to better silicon from Intel, and nothing to do with Apple. All they do is swap out a chipset and wriggle a few components around on the motherboard; maybe slap in a new video card. Has innovation died for those of us who put Apple on the map?

I hate having the bitch in me dragged out, but some things really do get my goat up.

Even if Jobs said they were working on Blu-Ray I'd be happy, but no, it's not even on his radar. Because, now, Apple is a Mobile company. FFS.

Apple is a mobile company.
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a mobile company.
Apple is a media company.

Apple is a lot. It's not just one company. They develop and sell a lot of different categories of software, yet that doesn't mean that they forget about everything else when they release a new one. Apple's products are as professionally geared as they were in the past. The only difference is that, besides making professional computers, they're also making consumer ones, and phones, and software and selling music. They're doing all of that at the same time. Obviously they will advertise their new and consumer products more than they do with their old, professional ones. Yes they are advertising more the iPhone, iPad, iPod and such than the Macs, but does that mean that they are neglecting the latter? No.

 

[pmz]

What would be an elegant solution to marry the world of BluRay to the Mac, and at the same time drive the value of the iTunes store's HD content?

I imagine this is the type of q-tips and spit question that Steve has posed to one of his Mac teams.

Apple won't want to take any steps backward in terms of Superdrive functionality, they'll want this to be all at once. Meaning, they won't add a BR drive without it being a BR writer as well.

They also won't want to give up HD Movie sales. Not sure what they can do here besides lowering prices and making all HD movies $9.99. It's more than its worth in digital only anyway. HD TV show sales will remain unaffected, as this is watch-while-it's-hot thing, and its main competition (beyond torrents) are Hulu and Network websites. Apple is hard at work to drop HD TV show pricing down to the lower tier.

For HD TV shows they should offer the Networks the following option:

- All TV episodes, SD / HD, $0.99. For the first 24 hours following the airing of an episode, the episode in SD / HD should cost $1.99.
Similar to the way new music costs $1.29 for a time, TV show episodes should cost $1.99 for the first day, maybe 2 days. Then immediately drop to $0.99

If HD TV show episodes were $0.99, considering they'd be playing on the iPad and (maybe) the next iPhone/iPod touch, that would be all I would need to start using it more.

 

[igazza]

+ 1 for steve jobs retiring.

 

[RQPS]

Why buy an iPad this summer if their is a new iPhone coming out? All the hardcore fans prob already switched to 3GS and those contracts are not up, so are we going to have to choose between new iPhone or iPad? Either way we will get 4.0!

 

[WilliamLondon]

There is no CEO better than Steve Jobs

Steve needs to retire and let younger guys take the driving wheel asap.

OMG, what a silly thing to say - do you not live in the same capitalist society as the rest of us? Apple just had their most profitable quarter ever. Ever! Steve Jobs is considered the best CEO in the world (actually according to Harvard Business Review, the best CEO and Fortune Magazine say he's the best CEO of the decade). Why in the world do think he should step down now? The company is doing so incredibly well with him at the helm, it's hard to imagine anyone else even coming close the level of success he's had with Apple. If there are fundamental problems with the direction of the company that *you* and others have with Apple, find another company that meets *your* requirements in products, but I'm quite happy where he's taking them and these products, and I'm sure their shareholders are too.

 

[mytdave]

love it

I love hearing tidbits like this from meetings, interviews, whatever else. It gets you bits and pieces of the real story.

Of course, all of these make sense, and it's a bit more of a confirmation than new info.

I'm disappointed in Google if it's true they want to 'kill' the iPhone. Hey, if they want to make their own product, fine, but I dislike it when any company moves to eliminate a competitor's product. Compete, fine, but when you try to undermine someone else, you travel down the road to underhanded, immoral, and possibly illegal actions. Don't go there, nothing good comes of it. This includes all companies - you too Apple. I would really like to see Apple and Google get along, even if they have competing products.

We've all known that Adobe has been schmucks for some time now. It is completely evident by the products they make. Any Mac user has known for some time that Flash, especially, sucks. It's too bad, cause Flash brings alot of capability to multiple platforms, but the Mac implementation is a complete turd.

I hope Apple keeps everything above board, while kicking some serious a$$ by the virtue of the products they make. The little blurbs reported here makes 2010 sound like an exciting year. Let's hope so!

 

[jzuena]

I need to find an article or news story on this, i need to know. Too many people are saying random things assuming their knowledge is correct and making wild statements. I knew something was off about MS having stock options in Apple.....

You could start by reading Apple's annual report. All public companies list major stock holders. If you don't see Microsoft Corp, then they don't hold enough common stock to influence Apple.

The stock Microsoft did hold was non-voting preferred stock and was sold long ago.

 

[fat phil]

Apple is a mobile company.
Apple is a hardware company.
Apple is a mobile company.
Apple is a media company.

Apple is a lot. It's not just one company. They develop and sell a lot of different categories of software, yet that doesn't mean that they forget about everything else when they release a new one. Apple's products are as professionally geared as they were in the past. The only difference is that, besides making professional computers, they're also making consumer ones, and phones, and software and selling music. They're doing all of that at the same time. Obviously they will advertise their new and consumer products more than they do with their old, professional ones. Yes they are advertising more the iPhone, iPad, iPod and such than the Macs, but does that mean that they are neglecting the latter? No.

You're talking like a consumer. Come back when you have a business that relies on keeping up with the rest of the 21st century.

 

[Banyan Bruce]

Where are the interactive HTML 5 alternatives ?

"Again, Apple doesn't have to "kill" it -- they just have to continue on with their plan of making it irrelevant (through using web standards); and they don't need to include it if they don't want to. "

The problem of killing it off with "the death of a thousand cuts" is that there are no alternatives on the horizon to fill the vacuum. Within a year or so we could well see the mass adoption of the iPad as a serious learning and teaching platform. With so many of the interactive learning tools based on Flash, I ask where is the HTML 5 tools that will jump in tot fill the gap?

Interactivity is a key part of learning and accessment webtools at the moment there are no creditable alternatives to the likes of Articulate et al. As an educational platform, Macs offer great functionality with simplicity. Third parties often providing the content tools. I just hope that developers out there see the market potential for these LMS focussed tools.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Heh I was actually talking about multi-tasking, but yes the same logic can be applied to Flash.

Someone challenged me recently over the next iteration of Flash - the XML-based HTML5 exporter. I've not followed Adobes plans for Flash for a while, so I don't know what this is about, but if it were truly Flash-in-HTML5 then I don't know why Adobe are kicking up such a fuss. Maybe it's just hard to put your toys back in the box once you've already thrown them all over the floor...

Flash isn't the main problem though; it's the inefficiency of Flash content. You can avoid the buggy stuff if you know what you're doing. "Keep It Simple, Stupid" doesn't seem to be present in the Flash authoring tooltips. Hell, you can crash anything if you push hard enough. We'll see what the next 24 months brings...

Someone told you wrong things in regards to CS5 - in short - you will have another option of exporting your project which effectively is like a ZIP file containing all the elements used in the project and next to all the bits and pieces used you will also get couple or so XML files which basically would be "coded" version of your Flash movie - which again means - by modifying this XML file in text edit you can quickly and effectively control your Flash movie...

Regarding 2nd paragraph - its nonsense... Sure there are hundreds of horribly designed and coded Flash sites / games / whatnot out there but also there is huge amount of simply awesome Flash based web experiences that can't possibly be replicated with HTML6 yet alone HTML5

Same goes with java/css/xhtml - there is huge amount of horribly coded sites out there yet equal amount of awesome ones...

All of it is contributing to richness and diversity of overall web and they are all playing integral part of it...

Just killing any part of it forcefully like stupid Steve is trying to do is simply ridiculous and will be laughed at and ignored by anyone who has slightest clue of what's going on and off web

 

[dwd3885]

"- Next iPhone coming is an A+ update"

Sorry, I dont get it? why are people hyped up about an "A+" update?
Is this an american term as I have never heard of anything being described in this way other than at college?

And what is Steve going to say? "It's a B- upgrade." I'm sure he would've told you the EXACT same thing last year and the iPhone is what it is (which obviously many people like, but some think it's stale). His job is to SELL THE COMPANY. He is of course going to say everything coming out this year is the greatest thing in the world.

 

[pmz]

Haven't you heard for example that Flash CS5 will be able to export projects as APPLICATIONS DIRECTLY TO iPHONE / iPOD T / iPAD ?

To what end? Build a piece of crap Flash App/Ad/Game and then export it into a standard, copied and pasted code iPhone App, so it an run like crap on that too?

This is not an accomplishment of any kind. Anyone can export there "work" into a iPhone app. Apple GIVES you all the code you need to do this without any modification. How useful/usable the "work" will be once it's an App, remains to be seen. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple rejects these types of apps outright based on the fact that they will not work, at all, like iPhone apps with iPhone UI elements. This is essentially what we're talking about right? Being able to build your App outside of Xcode, ignoring all Apple protocols, and then forcing it INSIDE of an iPhone App. it does not become an iPhone App.


Stop trolling for crying out loud.