Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[steve-p]

That's the cost of loving Macs: you have to drink the Kool-Aid, and submit to the cult.

Not really, it's perfectly possible to like products on their own merit and not evangelise about how visionary every decision is by the company that makes them. Open-minded people just buy the products that work best for them at the time, and as time and product direction changes, it could be a different brand that's the best fit. There's no room for ego or complacency in technology. IBM and Microsoft found out all about that.

 

[AnalyzeThis]

Do You?

They are about 5 Android versions and hardware generations away from killing the iPhone as it is in its current state.

I have an Android phone, and it way too buggy, slow, and unresponsive to become a viable threat to the current generation of iPhones.

Are Google's handset manufacturers THAT clueless that 3 years into the iPhone they are just NOW coming out with hardware that can keep up with Android software and perform almost close to where the current iPhone is at?

I know the next generation of the iPhone will send Google spinning. They won't know WHAT to do. They'll spend the next three years trying to catch up with the 2010 iPhone.

Here's a thought guys...Make it easier to manage\upgrade\delete applications.

FTW
__________________
"Remember Egypt?" - Max Stone, Extreme Rebel Trillionaire
16 GB iPhone Black
MacinDell Mini 9, A04, DellEFI 1.1, 2 GB RAM, 16GB STEC

When you own Android phone, you would not put iPhone 16GB in you signature... Figures, LOL...

On the contrary, I checked latest Android in T-Mobile store and I did not feel it was years behind iPhone.
I wish I could try Nexus some place...

 

[thejadedmonkey]

First it was Blu-ray licensing, and now it's the software?

Didn't Apple write the DVD Player application? Don't they write the software?

Quit lying and just tell us it's because of iTunes!

 

[Stately]

Agreed. He appears to have a narcissistic tendency to him doesn't he. Don't get me wrong, he has lead multiple companies through enormous success, but I think its going to his head.

My opinion: I think the biggest mistake apple is making is not developing good relations with Adobe. They should be working with adobe to make Flash work.

Narcissistic? Apple loyalist or not, how is he narcissistic? If you invented something that no one was able to come up with and then got booted from your own company would you not be even the slightest bit angry that others were in charge of something that was rightfully yours? Not to mention wouldn't you be excited about releasing new tech for YOUR company every time you got the chance, once you came back?
Not developing good relations with Adobe? It's pretty clear that they are not up for the challenge of doing anything new. Flash?! Please, we are talking about productivity here . . Think Creative Suite.

 

[Ed91]

who said that every single app had to be side by side or whatever? have each application that takes up the whole screen, have a button to switch applications.. simple

Wouldn't a more consistent approach for the iPad be to use the same four finger swipe that the MBPs use to trigger Exposé? Perhaps you could even pinch zoom right out of the apps into Exposé, and select your app by pinch zooming into your selection.

I think you would definitely need app management from within Exposé, though, so when viewing all windows, they should add the red x button that shows when you want to close an open safari window, and append it to the scaled app's window.

This causes a problem, though: traditionally a user would terminate an app by hitting the home button, then select the next app to open. If each app were to remain open after hitting the home button, the user could unwittingly keep several apps running and ruin their own experience. With the launch screen being separate from Exposé, opening / closing applications would become disjointed. A user would have to go to the home screen to launch an app, and into exposé to close it. That isn't graceful.

I suppose on pressing the home button a user could be prompted, but that still seems a little too ungraceful for Apple, especially so given that most of the time, people would just want the app closed. Nobody likes being continually prompted.

For that reason, I believe the home button should always be used to terminate an application. What is needed is a way to merge window management and the home screen so that they are not disjointed. For example, you shouldn't have to choose to keep the window running from an option within the application. It needs to be handled by the OS to provide a consistent user experience, while being triggered in a way that can only be seen as user intentional, to make sure your average user cannot stumble upon it.

This problem can be eliminated by replacing the Exposé concept with the Hide application method from OS X. A four finger swipe (or similar) hides the application, returning you to the home screen, and makes the hidden application's icon translucent. Perhaps the four finger swipe could also send a message to the app telling it that it's been hidden so it could respond accordingly: games could automatically pause, IM messages could send push notifications etc.

Eh, just a few thoughts that flooded out as I started typing.

 

[Scott6666]

Adobe is being dumb here...

There is no reason that Adobe has to own the standard to own the market. HTML5 can become the standard and Adobe can make a great designer friendly tool to develop the content with.

There are no decent tools to make HTML5. Their current Flash tools could just output HTML5 just as Photoshop outputs jpgs and pngs.

JPG and HTML are open standards and Adobe makes a fortune off of them with CreativeSuite. They can do the same for HTML5.

Steve may be very right about this. Adobe is not seeing the future here, not Apple.

Adobe should either free up the flash standard to open source (too late) or prepare for HTML5.

Apple and Microsoft are both trying to kill Flash. Microsoft is dumb and makes Silverlight which has the same proprietary issues as Flash. Apple is much smarter in trying to kill Flash with a standard. Microsoft so far has not had the power to kill Flash with Silverlight. Arguably, Apple may have the muscle to kill Flash with their hardware stance rather than Microsoft's software stance.

Do we rally around Steve or attempt to cut him off at the knees? Who's given you more great toys, Adobe or Apple? Pick sides! I say we support the 'Pad and help force the end of Flash. Who's going to make up the flags for the rallies?

 

[Arnia]

There is a competitive pressure and business strategy argument to be made as well; if everyone supports Flash because Flash is used so commonly now, what pressure is there to improve the situation beyond the status quo (either improving Flash or having new competitor solutions gain market share).

I know the numbers of Mobile Safari browsers look small, but there is a certain symbolism involved. After all, to get Flash to 60% market share from 99% requires you to go through 98% first. Making others aware of the existence of alternatives, and systems which are 'cool' which do not support Flash, may lead to a rising number of sites which deploy the alternative in parallel. Then, once these first-adopters have experimented, others will follow.

Flash isn't dead, and probably won't ever completely die, but saying that businesses should focus all their energies on tactics rather than strategies seems as shortsighted to me. This may be a mis-step by Apple, but I currently consider it unlikely. If Flash really were going to be an issue for a significant part of their target market, I doubt they would have made so public an issue of it. They would have continued to build up the alternatives until they felt themselves in a good position to succeed.

 

[charlituna]

"The world is moving to HTML5." - May it be so, Steve, may it be so!

it will be because Apple will help to make it so.

Despite all the gigs and jokes from the geek types on boards like this. Types that are NOT the focus for the ipad, it will sell. It will sell to consumers that want the email,the ipod, the 'kindle' without a bunch of junk in their bags. it will sell to the folks that wanted the data of an iphone but ATT in their area sucks or they get a discount with Verizon cause of their employer or whatever and so on.

all those major sites will want a cut of the fun so they will have a reason to move into HTML5 (or move faster). In a perfect world, Adobe will stop denying they haven't really updated Flash for Mac in like 3 years and do something about it to stem the blood flow.

funny is that this could happen with digital downloads as well. the studios could want a cut so bad that they stop pitting blu-ray v downloads and figure out that both markets could be very flush if they would play in them. the move to 1080p at a decent filesize etc could kick up because of this game change. As could improve software, licensing etc. because they will want the other side of the handshake.

The yearly refresh cycle probably isn't going to cut it anymore.

well it depends on the updates. if the hardware changes are major then software can work in between.

personally I think the most A+ they could do is drop ATT and unlock the phone. Let T-Mobile legally have the silly thing if folks are happy with EDGE only (and one size will move for the changes needed to have 3g). This could lighten the load on ATT, cause rate compet which is never bad, etc

 

[kernkraft]

Jobs - just lose the guy, you weak morons at Apple!

Why didn’t Macrumors post the rest of the story?

According to eWeek,

"On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won't let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there's no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don't be evil mantra: "It's bulls*it." Audience roars.”



http://tinyurl.com/ygdeagb

Google might be evil, so is Apple. But Steven Paul Jobs is a capital jerk, a narcissistic ****. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

He is good to make money, but the company he made Apple become since he returned is not something that's worth being a fanboy for. iPad for the masses, I get the idea, but I don't want a device that is also used by millions of elderly. No offense, no problem with the smell, but I am still a young person. Bored housewives? Thanks, but no, thanks.

 

[steve-p]

I dont remember the last time my computer crashed, froze or firefox crashed due to flash. I have a mac pro. Is it only me that thinks this whole flash debacle is greatly exaggerated?

Exactly what I was thinking.

Don't think it's ever crashed for me either in Firefox. With regard to Flash ads, I never see any - that's what Adblock is for. Maybe badly done ads are part of the problem and filtering them fixes it. As an experiment I watched 30 mins of Youtube 720P video yesterday on my external monitor at 2560x1600, and it worked fine, so it's a bit puzzling - unless the issue is mainly with Safari and Flash.

 

[kingcobra2010]

it will be because Apple will help to make it so.

Despite all the gigs and jokes from the geek types on boards like this. Types that are NOT the focus for the ipad, it will sell. It will sell to consumers that want the email,the ipod, the 'kindle' without a bunch of junk in their bags. it will sell to the folks that wanted the data of an iphone but ATT in their area sucks or they get a discount with Verizon cause of their employer or whatever and so on.

all those major sites will want a cut of the fun so they will have a reason to move into HTML5 (or move faster). In a perfect world, Adobe will stop denying they haven't really updated Flash for Mac in like 3 years and do something about it to stem the blood flow.

funny is that this could happen with digital downloads as well. the studios could want a cut so bad that they stop pitting blu-ray v downloads and figure out that both markets could be very flush if they would play in them. the move to 1080p at a decent filesize etc could kick up because of this game change. As could improve software, licensing etc. because they will want the other side of the handshake.



well it depends on the updates. if the hardware changes are major then software can work in between.

personally I think the most A+ they could do is drop ATT and unlock the phone. Let T-Mobile legally have the silly thing if folks are happy with EDGE only (and one size will move for the changes needed to have 3g). This could lighten the load on ATT, cause rate compet which is never bad, etc

your arguments are flawed. The pad will sell but not well. It really does not answer the question. In the end it is a bigger iphone/ipod touch. It is not a new device. Same apps and pretty much same functionality. Battery life is not really 10 hrs it is actually 5.75 hours if you are watching a movie that is 720p. if your are watching the lower end 320p movie from youtube then you should get about 8hrs. So for less carry-ability, you get the pad. the pad will compete with the ipod touch market which according to the last conference call (jan 2010) the sell of which dropped from previous sells were as the iphone sells increased.

 

[jonathanb]

I don't understand this at all. Why would you spend a bunch of money on a stack of blue ray disks when you can get a 500 or more GB external HD to back up data. Plus, erase it when it's full?

Because a hard drive will fail. It is inevitable and will happen. And backup hard drives, if there is only one of them, are often found to fail when they are actually needed. A RW (rewritable) Bluray disc should last at least 5 years, providing the most stable backup possible.

 

[Robert M.]

Wrong. Without freedom, without alternatives, developers get lazy because they know people will buy their sh*t anyways.

Plus, what you're preaching here reeks of communism. Let the state (= Apple) determine what's good for us minions.

I agree! I don't really care about flash but we should have the option to install it!! I'll repeat what some have stated in this thread already "I understand no flash on the iPhone/Touch but not on the iPad"

Also I'm shocked that Apple wouldn't add flash. Those Lego blocks look downright tacky!

I'm still going to buy one! I just wish Apple would give the people that want flash the choice to install it! If it kills the battery and is a security threat, just give people a warning. That sounds pretty simple to me. Also I think it's unprofessional to call Abode lazy... Come on Steve! show some respect...

 

[gwangung]

your arguments are flawed. The pad will sell but not well. It really does not answer the question.

What people on these boards forget is that there is not A question in the marketplace, but multiple, overlapping questions. That's why they get it so wrong on marketing products.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

This seems strange of Jobs to comment such asL

BluRay is a mess and we will wait till that mess is resolved before we include it in our lineup. Was it not who introduced DVD-RAM and SuperDrive and the exclusion of the Floppy.

Flash is a mess because Adobe is too lazy to fix it and it crashes browsers. HTML5 is the cure for Flash.

Something sounds strange, Flash is too buggy, however HTML5 is great but is it not in beta testing. Flash is established. Why not re-write Safari similar to Chrome, that if a plug-in does crash it only takes the tab or the single window it is running on down. Not the entire app.

On one count Steve Jobs supports HTML5 and says we will support it because it is the future, however downplays BluRay because he feels its a mess. Well which is it either chose to adopt technology that is the future or stick with the present technology, better yet a mix of both.

The of today is the not the when the original iMac was introduced. used to think ahead where technology is going and try its best to implement standards such as the web technologies at that time.

Now I am not sure, they say they are thinking ahead with HTML5 and not including BluRay and on the other hand they insist by inclusion of having the SuperDrive but not including Flash.

FWIW, I have Flash and have never had my browser crash. Maybe those people need to update they Flash player/plug-in.

 

[Lesser Evets]

That's the cost of loving Macs: you have to drink the Kool-Aid, and submit to the cult. Whether you hate what he says or not, Steve will just do what he wants to do. It's a sad fact.

Man, you have some issues in your head. Did a hot girl ditch you for an Apple lover? The whole post was just verging on mania/insanity.

Steve Jobs sits on top of the industry and is looking outward to see where to go. He has the ability to make the industry, but it looks insane to some bottom feeder, dirt crawler without the perspective people in the upper tech positions have.

Jobs, more than any other single person, has shaped the personal computer products market. The Apple computer, the Mac computer with mouse, the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone. These led markets to bigger and better places due to better user experiences. He never invented THE FIRST XXX EVER, but he did invent the best XXX at the time for the common consumer.

This whole "cult" rant is like a quack doctor combating the symptoms instead of the cause. People love the aura of Jobs and Apple. It's a good scheme that swirls around because Jobs isn't just a visionary and director, he's a personality with credibility. He understands how to play the game. That people love watching the game and buying tickets... that's something else.

 

[Deefuzz]

The 2010 Mac update sounds promising. It would be nice to upgrade the MBP to a newer model.

 

[mikes63737]

As for Adobe, Jobs said they are lazy and Jobs blames Adobe for a buggy implementation of Flash on the Mac as one of the reasons they won't support it.

Steve, I love you for saying this. It's so true, and hopefully Adobe realizes that most - if not all - of their software sucks performance-wise on the Mac and gets off their lazy asses and does something to fix it instead of crying that Apple is being unfair.

 

[charlituna]

I dont remember the last time my computer crashed, froze or firefox crashed due to flash. I have a mac pro.

You also have a beefy computer than most folks. That is a factor in what happens.

I've got tons of crash logs and I submit reports every time my system crashes. I suspect I'm not the only one. Add to this crashes on their demo machines, reports of tests at the Bar, and Apple has the data to back up the claim.

i agree with jobs on the flash stuff. too much CPU usage. too much heat. its rubbish.

funny thing. I went to read the Wired article, got one of those sliding (and super annoying) ads and my first thought was 'what was actually missing from the NYT. Was it an article, a video or one of these dumb ads'

Yeah your right, allot of people are not going to buy the iPad (at least for surfing the net).

You won't, that's clear. Several other folks around here won't. that's clear.

but the rest of the world. why don't we wait for the actual launch and then see what happens.

yup true. not sure what apples answer is there. toast in the mean time?

bingo. Apple hasn't prevented you from hooking up an external and using Toast if you really need to burn onto a Blu-ray. so there goes that 'they are better for backups' argument. and most folks that are burning video are going to test it on a standalone with a huge screen cause that's the target audience, not some little 17 inch screen. so all those Mac Pro users freaking that they just must have an internal blu-ray have a solution. not as pretty but it is something.

Still 11 months left of 2010, I really hope apple gives an indication of when MBPs will be updated, really need it next month (for uni) !

last one was in June. typically they have been a year apart. so it's very possible nothing until this june.

now what i'm curious about is if they will add the ipad (with the notion of etextbooks) into the mix. they won't do free of course but if they do the standard 'free ipod touch' and let students get that $200 off an ipad as well as a classic, nano or touch. sales could jump. particularly if the new machines are launched at the top of the sales period.

Google might be evil, so is Apple. But Steven Paul Jobs is a capital jerk, a narcissistic ****. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

He is good to make money, but the company he made Apple become since he returned is not something that's worth being a fanboy for. iPad for the masses, I get theidea, but I don't want a device that is also used by millions of elderly. No offense, no problem with the smell, but I am still a young person.

Your opinion and you are welcome to them. But reality check. You and what you think and what you want is NOT the end all and be all of the computer world or Apple's world. some things aren't going to be made for you. Get off it and grow up.

 

[geofly]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Honestly I don't know why people want blu-ray in their notebooks so badly

With video streaming and downloading what is the point?

I rather they just remove the optical and use the space for something else

You know what, I'm at that point too. Why do we even need a SuperDrive? I can say that I have about 40 apps installed on my Mac.... and only 2 I have physical discs. The only thing I used it for is to rip my CDs. If I had to have an external SD for when I needed it, that would be much better. Make the machines lighter or add some other ports.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I used my drive.... there is no point. With hard drives inexpensive and people storing data in the cloud, do we even need discs for archiving? Flash, HDD, cloud... I can't wait until Apple drops the CD/DVD drive just like it did the floppy. I want all my media either downloaded or streamed. Physical media is a 20th century relic.

Hear, hear! CD drive gets used every other month, if you exclude gaming, ieCoD4 requires the CD to be in the drive while playing. This has probably delayed the extinction of the built in drive for laptops.

 

[jonathanb]

With thumb drives and portable hard drives so cheap? Not really

Nope: hard drives and thumb drives are not stable backup media. Hard drives are fragile, mechanical devices using 1960's technology. Thumb drives are a bit better but still are basically a disposable medium (when considered over time.) The data recorded to DVD or Bluray is far less prone to failure as the lifespan of the media is far longer. I have 15 year old cd-r's that still function. How many functioning fifteen year old hard drives are there?

Perhaps your backup needs are not very urgent, but I'm a digital artist and my backups must also serve an archival purpose. I've had backup hard drives fail where the data was not recoverable and I wound up losing lots of files. Not fun.

 

[cmaier]

I don't own one Blue Ray DVD. I have 200+ DVD's, all on my Mac's external HDD and then I sync some to my Apple TV.
I can't say never.. but I don't see my anytime soon adopting Blue Ray. I don't see much point in it, DVD's were working fine, and we were all slowly moving to Digital, no need to create another type of DVD. Ah well

If you have a very big TV and a good amp, blue Ray looks and sounds startlingly better than DVD and even much better than any current commercial streaming alternative.

 

[DanielSw]

This will hopefully put to rest the requests for Flash on the iPhone/iPad. It's not going to happen, everyone can move on, and we can look forward to HTML5.

I agree.

 

[martint84]

A few things:

1. Google is amazing. They really do make great products. However, there's no doubt in my mind that Apple is going to give us a huge iPhone update simply because they have to. I'm sure Android, Win7, WinMo, etc. are going to do well. But for me, I'm going to stick with Apple just like I prefer Mac OS X over windows and Linux.

2. Blu Ray is absolutely amazing on my home theater and nothing else comes close. However, do I need 1080p 7.1 on my laptop? Even on my desktop? I understand the whole thing about not wanting to buy a movie twice. That's kind of BS. It sucks that only a few BR movies include the digital version. And whether you like it or not, Apple wants us to buy movies through the iTunes store. Sure, it would be great to be able to burn BluRay for data storage and sharing. The problem is, BluRay movie sales is only 13%. The forum members here might not like to admit it, but we are nowhere near the average consumer. Most of our parents, friends, and neighbors don't have BR players, some don't even know what it is. BluRay will come to the Mac when more people want and need it. And believe me, I'm one of those people that want it... just not on my laptop.

3. I'm tired of arguing the flash thing. It's not coming. If you can't live without flash, go buy a different computer, phone, or tablet. Steve is a brilliant man (even if egotistical) and has his reasons for everything. So far, he has a pretty good track record.

4. I am so excited to ditch my 3G for a unibody it's not even funny...

 

[AnalyzeThis]

What a personality indeed

Google might be evil, so is Apple. But Steven Paul Jobs is a capital jerk, a narcissistic ****. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

He is good to make money, but the company he made Apple become since he returned is not something that's worth being a fanboy for. iPad for the masses, I get the idea, but I don't want a device that is also used by millions of elderly. No offense, no problem with the smell, but I am still a young person. Bored housewives? Thanks, but no, thanks.

Steve did a lot of good for Apple, but he also did cause a lot of trouble to Apple.
Let's not forget the biggest screw up on Apple record when millions of macs were overheating (Job's fanless design). All because of Steve ego and ignorance, ergo being fired later on.

Lately, Steve personality shows it bad side again: taking away matte displays, taking away Fire-wire and etc. Now it is a Flash war.

Many years later, he does not understand: it is not his call in most of the cases. So far, he backed out in some cases. It is interesting to see the pending outcome of the Flash and other messes he created ...