Steve Jobs at Apple Town Hall Meeting, Google, Adobe, Next iPhone, 2010 Macs and More

[MrKahuna]

We've been in this situation before.

Internet Explorer 6 was a de facto "standard" as Flash is today.
Mozilla & other standards compliant browsers helped break the IE6 monopoly grip on web browsing as hopefully HTML5 & Javascript will break the Flash grip.

Imagine where we'd be right now if the grip of IE6 hadn't been broken and the web didn't work unless you used IE. Do you think we'd have the plethora of devices and choices that are coming out right now? I doubt it.

Many of the same arguments put forth by certain web developers in favor of Flash are the same arguments that they used for only wanting to support IE6. They need to get over the idea that we should all support what makes their job "easiest" and get on with making the web open even if they have to work harder to get there.

 

[geofly]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Jobs is right about flash. Whenever a browser crashes on my Macbook, its because of flash.

Steve was surprisingly open here. I'm surprised. I can't wait to see what they have up their sleeve this year.

My favorite thing about the Droids is that users always claim they are either as good, or better than an iPhone, and can't name one thing it does better.

Umm...Multitasking? Flash support? Removable battery? Keyboard?

I always hear, "removable battery" but have never understood the big deal. You can now charge your phone everywhere, and in so many ways (solar). Who wants to lug around an extra battery, field missions on a cloudy day??

 

[ibosie]

Do we rally around Steve or attempt to cut him off at the knees? Who's given you more great toys, Adobe or Apple? Pick sides! I say we support the 'Pad and help force the end of Flash. Who's going to make up the flags for the rallies?

There's no need to take sides - Steve isn't providing a replacement for Flash - I don't know why people think HTML 5 does because it doesn't, at least not today or anytime soon.

 

[fleggy]

Pure geekdom is why. I enjoy BluRay greatly, but not on my 13" or even 20" screens. Utterly pointless.

I occasionally rent a BluRay disc and watch it from my PS3->HDTV. It doesn't make any sense to watch BluRay over another much much much more convenient format, on a Mac.

I'm glad he openly stated that BluRay is not coming to Macs this year. Very happy.

For me, Blu-ray is not just about playback of Movie studio titles (on an Apple computer).

Since ALL of the consumer camcorder manufacturers (Canon, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung etc) are selling AVCHD format models, I want the ability to take the SD Card, insert into a computer and do simple edits (also adding titles etc). I then want to burn a disc and playback on my HDTV via a Blu-ray player (I have a PS3).

Sure - I could convert it (downgrade in quality), but if I am to do that, why sell me a camera with capabilities I will NEVER see!

Someone better tell those big companies to stop making them...or tell Apple that iMovie and FCE/P's days are numbered. The only viable option will be to go Windows.

I don't want to buy a windows machine JUST to edit and burn video!

If someone has another solution to my problem...I'm all ears! I may be the minority, but I don't think I am...look at the size of the (now AVCHD) camcorder market!

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

Don't think it's ever crashed for me either in Firefox. With regard to Flash ads, I never see any - that's what Adblock is for. Maybe badly done ads are part of the problem and filtering them fixes it. As an experiment I watched 30 mins of Youtube 720P video yesterday on my external monitor at 2560x1600, and it worked fine, so it's a bit puzzling - unless the issue is mainly with Safari and Flash.

Here is another puzzling action, from my knowledge FireFox is not allowed to run on the iPhone/iPod Touch or any other browser for that matter. Safari is default, however includes it on they device for free. Chances are these other browsers will be given away for free via AppStore. So no money for , then again when Steve Jobs introduced the AppStore he said we want more developer to give away free apps to strengthen the platform.

Now if Safari is the problem with Flash, why not allow other browsers in the market. already made its money by selling you the hardware and maintains the AppStore. I do not see why they are restricting the end user, the approval process still is in effect.

Who cares which browser people end up choosing, as long as its open-source and open standards as likes. I really am confused as to why Steve Jobs is behaving this way, Safari is given/included for free anyhow.

 

[charlituna]

wired article comment amusement

i don't have an account and didn't feel the need to sign up for one comment

but reading what folks wrote I had to snicker at the know it all that wrote to the effect "if Apple's browser keeps crashing with Flash, then perhaps they should rewrite it to isolate the plugin to stop that"

which is exactly what they were forced to do with Safari for Snow Leopard.

yeah it would be nice if that feature was added to prior versions but at $30 they want everyone on Snow Leopard and anyone that can't upgrade is on a post warranty computer that is probably overall going to be replaced soon anyway if they use it for anything beyond email, very light browsing, ichat and a few offline games (like solitaire)

I believe adobe is starting to find alternative ways around this. Take a look at this: http://cs5.org/?p=359. Being an Flash/Flex developer myself, this is an interesting concept. IF adobe is able to pull this off, then will we need flash on the iPad/iPhone? The other question is if Adobe release such a feature, what will happen if apple starts to include flash; will this feature just die? I say no....porting your flash applications over to iPhone/iPad will be a great alternative...opening up the app store even more!!

I know a handful of developers that believe this is nothing more than Adobe trying to justify the upgrade to games devos like them. The folks that want to have iphone/ipad apps and would stick with CS4 for the flash versions and go phone from scratch. now Adobe can say it doesn't have to be A or B. you can take that same great game, keep it up to the times AND port it for mobile. All for our not so small upgrade price of $700 and up.

and yeah my friends will likely fall for it. Because their clients want Flash versions as well as mobile

 

[VenusianSky]

I don't know what an "A+" update really means, but I will be ready to upgrade my 3G this year.

I don't really get why Apple is so opposed to Blu-ray. I don't see it as being in any sort of "mess". There may be issues, but doesn't everything have issues? All that matters to me is that I purchase a blu-ray and it plays back perfectly on my blu-ray player. I suppose there may be more to the licensing aspects of the technology, which the consumer know little about. It is Sony's technology afterall.

 

[batchtaster]

more often than not it’s because of Flash.

QFT.

 

[kernkraft]

Uncool men on trains and in Starbucks, writing your blogs on Macs - listen, you!!!

Your opinion and you are welcome to them. But reality check. You and what you think and what you want is NOT the end all and be all of the computer world or Apple's world. some things aren't going to be made for you. Get off it and grow up.

But I can still ignore, what a frail middle-aged man in white trainers and black socks is telling me about what's cool and what's ********, right? I mean, if that's the best he can come up with...

For those lovely socks, I leave a (black) mark here:



EDIT: Come on, Jobs said "Bull@@@@" himself. What's the problem with that?! Stars?!

 

[Avatar74]

LOL no!!! apple bought those back years ago!

What's more, the original shares they acquired were nonvoting shares, anyway. Microsoft's infusion of cash was self-serving because they still wanted a piece of Apple's software market, which wasn't huge but sizeable and upon Jobs' return had probably convinced Gates they had nowhere to go but up.

Gates isn't a stupid guy. Nor is Jobs. Apple needed software development from Microsoft for a time until they got off the ground again, and Apple is chiefly a hardware company. They only deal in software because it is a component critical to ensuring a good user experience with the hardware. That was something Jobs learned from Alan Keyes.

Jobs' first message to Apple shareholders about the future direction of the company he returned to was to get rid of the flawed notion that in order for Apple to succeed, Microsoft has to fail. They're different animals, and Microsoft has never truly succeeded at being a hardware company.

Just look at Zune.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

There is no reason that Adobe has to own the standard to own the market. HTML5 can become the standard and Adobe can make a great designer friendly tool to develop the content with.

There are no decent tools to make HTML5. Their current Flash tools could just output HTML5 just as Photoshop outputs jpgs and pngs.

JPG and HTML are open standards and Adobe makes a fortune off of them with CreativeSuite. They can do the same for HTML5.

Steve may be very right about this. Adobe is not seeing the future here, not Apple.

Adobe should either free up the flash standard to open source (too late) or prepare for HTML5.

Apple and Microsoft are both trying to kill Flash. Microsoft is dumb and makes Silverlight which has the same proprietary issues as Flash. Apple is much smarter in trying to kill Flash with a standard. Microsoft so far has not had the power to kill Flash with Silverlight. Arguably, Apple may have the muscle to kill Flash with their hardware stance rather than Microsoft's software stance.

Do we rally around Steve or attempt to cut him off at the knees? Who's given you more great toys, Adobe or Apple? Pick sides! I say we support the 'Pad and help force the end of Flash. Who's going to make up the flags for the rallies?

<<Steps up to microphone>> <<taps microphone>>
Can I have your attention please? Thank you. I'd just like to say that flash ≠ HTML5 .
(Crowd goes wild).

Seriously, there are plenty of sites out there that use flash when a static context or HTML5 will do just as well (just take a look at Apple's website, which is infact flash free and one of my favorites), but corps like hulu and such will not abandon flash's streaming capabilities any time soon. The olympics? Flash. Cloud Apps? Flash/AIR. I don't like closed standards and I don't like flash very much, because i've been trying to get into actionscript for YEARS and I can't wrap my head around it , but to chant "flash is dead! flash is dead! html5 is here and flash is dead!" is untrue because html5 is merely usurping control of content that really can be done on the standard.

 

[Hellium]

is anybody keeping up the apple stock? been going down alot lately- maybe recession has finally gotten to apple.

 

[geofly]

down with Hulu, not available in Canada anyway!

re:FLASH
And please get real Steve. This is not about crashes. This is about Hulu.

Interesting point. Not allowing alternatives ways of watching video could also be a partly strategic decision to support people choosing to buy from iTunes.

Fine with me, Apple is developing a proper market for these things. The rag-tag offerings of onine streaming content is NOT the future of mainstream entertainment distribution.

 

[DanielSw]

Google might be evil, so is Apple. But Steven Paul Jobs is a capital jerk, a narcissistic ****. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

He is good to make money, but the company he made Apple become since he returned is not something that's worth being a fanboy for. iPad for the masses, I get the idea, but I don't want a device that is also used by millions of elderly. No offense, no problem with the smell, but I am still a young person. Bored housewives? Thanks, but no, thanks.

One pathetic piece of work. You must lead a miserable life.

 

[martint84]

i don't have an account and didn't feel the need to sign up for one comment

but reading what folks wrote I had to snicker at the know it all that wrote to the effect "if Apple's browser keeps crashing with Flash, then perhaps they should rewrite it to isolate the plugin to stop that"

which is exactly what they were forced to do with Safari for Snow Leopard.

Isn't it funny how quickly people come to conclusions? They think they're so brilliant and that every idea they come up with hasn't been thought about and debated at length. Wouldn't it be smart to put a camera in the iPad? Wouldn't it be great to put Mac OS X on the iPad? Wouldn't it be great if we got BluRay on our MacBook Pros? No Firewire? No floppy drive? No flash? Who wants to buy music online? Why is there a bezel on the iPad?

It really is unbelievable...

 

[Maclemming]

The main reason we don't have Flash on the iPhone

Say what You want, but for me the reason for the lack of Flash on the iPhone is rather simple:
It would kill the App-Store.
If Flash was available, Apple would lose control over interactive content on their devices. And losing control is something, Apple doesn't really like...

 

[pk22901]

Does anyone see why the investors booted him out of his own company the first time?

He was booted out by the CEO from Pepsi, whatever his name is.

 

[JMax1]

I think "the next level" is getting to third base....

 

[netcastle]

Who is downloading true HD video with 7.1 dts-hd and 1080p. Did not think so. BD is here and downloading movies from itunes is not. You would have to download 8 gigs to equal one bd. You would not have net access for days while you waited for it to download. The high speed net services can not handle the traffic. They can barely handle the streaming net, mp3 downloads and those downloading 720p movies with poor audio as it is. How are they going to handle you downloading BD movies??? Get real. If you do not want bd do not buy it. But give us the option, do not hold me down because you can not afford bd drive or can not see its utility

It only takes 2 hours to DL 8 gigs. Maybe less. Also, no one uses trueHD in a meaningful way. You need a crazy good audio setup to appreciate it. 99% percent of viewers don't have this type of setup so why would they care.

Regardless, BD playback is there for Linux. Not long before the open source world gets it going on the Mac. Think MakeMKV.

 

[charlituna]

This is about Hulu.

and just like they did with the desktop,they will make an ipad app. if Apple refuses the allow it in the store, folks that really gotta have it will jailbreak etc.

just like the iphone folks did.

 

[Otaviano]

<<Steps up to microphone>> <<taps microphone>>
Can I have your attention please? Thank you. I'd just like to say that flash ≠ HTML5 .
(Crowd goes wild).

Seriously, there are plenty of sites out there that use flash when a static context or HTML5 will do just as well (just take a look at Apple's website, which is infact flash free and one of my favorites), but corps like hulu and such will not abandon flash's streaming capabilities any time soon. The olympics? Flash. Cloud Apps? Flash/AIR. I don't like closed standards and I don't like flash very much, because i've been trying to get into actionscript for YEARS and I can't wrap my head around it , but to chant "flash is dead! flash is dead! html5 is here and flash is dead!" is untrue because html5 is merely usurping control of content that really can be done on the standard.

Isn't that a bit of a bold statement?

Corporations will move to whatever works best for their market. YouTube and Vimeo are both testing public HTML5 betas. You think it's impossible that Hulu also examine using HTML5?

Also a lot of people are missing the point about HTML5. You can make a website in HTML5 with video tags and the video can be delivered to users in the format they have available. So one site with HTML5 can deliver h.264 Quicktime to Mac users and Flash to those that have Flash. It's one of the beauties of HTML, it can downgrade and attempt to accommodate systems. Something Flash has never do, you either got it or don't

Also in my opinion you overstate Flash usage, to associate it with cloud apps is a stretch in my opinion.

 

[kernkraft]

is anybody keeping up the apple stock? been going down alot lately- maybe recession has finally gotten to apple.

I was, but sold them after they hit $200 again back in December. Best Christmas present, I didn't trust them with any announcement in early January.

 

[kingcobra2010]

Say what You want, but for me the reason for the lack of Flash on the iPhone is rather simple:
It would kill the App-Store.
If Flash was available, Apple would lose control over interactive content on their devices. And losing control is something, Apple doesn't really like...

Exactly. Like Jobs said with microsoft you do not have to kill it to win. he should have followed his own remark when he developed the ipad. he should have put flash support on it until an alternative can be found/finalized (not the unfinished html 5). This leaves the door open to flash/google to run away with the show. Flash coming to smart phones and google making its slate that supports flash among other things.

 

[Otaviano]

Say what You want, but for me the reason for the lack of Flash on the iPhone is rather simple:
It would kill the App-Store.
If Flash was available, Apple would lose control over interactive content on their devices. And losing control is something, Apple doesn't really like...

LOL ... this is about the dumbest of the pro flash argument. Flash would not at all affect the App Store.

 

[shen]

wow, the amount of ignorance and FUD since the iPad announce is really climbing. I don't think i have seen the "MS owns Apple" crap in about 4 years.

....sound like someone is scared.