Steve Jobs denies iP4 reception issues!

[DMann]

Incorrect conclusion. Software can't fix a flawed antenna when it's shorted. Just because one frequency band still works, doesn't mean it can't affect the other frequency band. That's like saying you can take your radio antenna, and with the right software, pick up HD TV just as good as with a specialized HD TV antenna.

The difference between HDTV and radio frequency spectrums is a bit extreme, and it would be unlikely that Apple engineers would design an antenna which would exclusively process one frequency (of the 850, 1900) over the other. The 3G phone also had signal processing issues prior to its software fix.

Each frequency band has different characteristics.

Not to the extreme of what was mentioned above.

 

[Alonzo84]

I am so tired of hearing this ridiculous explanation. A natural issue that MANY cell devices have??? I've been using cell phones for years and I never saw anything like this. We need to stop defending this like a mother defending her guilty child that everyone can see is in the wrong. Apple screwed up big here (I have the same problem on my phone) and we as consumers need to hold their feet to the fire. Not give them a pass and make this ridiculous excuses for them. Damn people!

You may have been using cell phones for years, but none of them used this software until a week ago. This COULD explain why my 3GS now loses signal when my hand covers the back bottom quarter of the phone. I never experienced this until I installed iOS4.0.

 

[loretian]

2) The HARDWARE issue: Killing it by bridging the seam between the antenna bands as I can do with a fingertip, as others have done with a house key, a piece of wire, etc. While connecting two disparate antennas is never really a "good thing," the point here is that the circuit shouldn't allow such contact to affect the signal, not to the dramatic and totally catastrophic effects that I myself and many many others are experiencing: loss of signal and then total loss of service. And yes, I can get the same results by holding it in my hand (not just the fingertip) but it requires somewhat more pressure.

You probably did not see my post earlier (not your fault), but my experience with my iPhone 4 is that I have two completely difference experiences of where I'm at. Assuming my understanding of shorting is correct (which it may not be), then this shorting should occur regardless of what type of frequencies/etc are being used. But, at work, I "short" the two antennas all day long with no repercussions, and at home, a tiny touch will cause major issues.

I would just suggest that my own personal subjective experience is just as valid as yours, and to be so certain of it being a hardware issue is big mistake on your part.

 

[loretian]

Yes, impedance is a function of frequency. I also suspect it's a software issue where, under the right conditions, a slight change in impedance results in a cell being considered undesirable, and switching to a "more reliable" but lower power cell. The same change in reception of the signal that starts at lower power is considered less bad by the software than a change in reception of a strong signal.

Interesting, all right, well, thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

 

[pbehnke2003]

Edge Network

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but when I put my phone to the Edge Network (Turn off 3g) it works fine. That goes to tell me that it's software, not hardware, because all signals should be affected, not just the 3g.

 

[kernkraft]

Actually, what a page! Two world leaders and Darth Vader (once in full uniform and once in turtleneck).

Do Jesus, Hitler, the Pope and Gandhi have iPhones?

 

[ski1ski1]

The difference between HDTV and radio frequency spectrums is a bit extreme, and it would be unlikely that Apple engineers would design an antenna which would exclusive process one frequency (of the 850, 1900) over the other. The 3G phone also had signal processing issues prior to its software fix.


Not to the extreme of what was mentioned above.

I'm not saying the antenna is flawed. I'm saying the antenna does not work properly when the antenna is shorted against the other antenna. And yes, the two frequency bands do have a lot of different characteristics. One band is twice as high as the other band.

 

[d00m42]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but when I put my phone to the Edge Network (Turn off 3g) it works fine. That goes to tell me that it's software, not hardware, because all signals should be affected, not just the 3g.

I'll try that, although I doubt it. It could be something related to the antenna and the 3G band only, however, which would make it hardware still :/

 

[DMann]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but when I put my phone to the Edge Network (Turn off 3g) it works fine. That goes to tell me that it's software, not hardware, because all signals should be affected, not just the 3g.

Quite correct - this seems to rule out a 'complete hardware design failure.'

 

[Popeye206]

I've had my iPhone 4 now since Tuesday. Love it... however, I think iOS4 has issues with the reception. I don't think that it's hardware related - at least I hope not. I have my iPhone 4 in a case and I've experienced tons of dropped calls where I never had issues before. I even had a point on Saturday while in my car i lost signal for about 5-10 minutes in an area I've drive before and never lost signal. I also noticed that my 3g iPhone was dropping calls on Monday and Tuesday after upgrading. I didn't really think of it being an issue since I only had iOS4 installed for two days before shutting down that phone.

So... my conclusion... I think iOS4 has a bug in it when it comes to frequency changes and the constant modulation required by cell phones to keep track of the signal and to change frequencies when between towers or crossing another phone on the same freq. So I think it has to do with this and not just the hardware.

My prediction....
Monday we hear there is an update to OS4 to enhance reception issues. And customers experiencing problems with the way they hold the phone will be offered a free rubber case.

 

[ryuuzaki]

You may have been using cell phones for years, but none of them used this software until a week ago. This COULD explain why my 3GS now loses signal when my hand covers the back bottom quarter of the phone. I never experienced this until I installed iOS4.0.

This.

 

[ski1ski1]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but when I put my phone to the Edge Network (Turn off 3g) it works fine. That goes to tell me that it's software, not hardware, because all signals should be affected, not just the 3g.

Flawed conclusion. Your Edge network might be operating on one frequency band, and your 3G network might be on another frequency band. A band that is affected by this antenna shorting hardware flaw. My theory is only one band is affected by this hardware flaw.

 

[br0adband]

The simple rule of thumb to apply when designing microwave radio communications equipment that by necessity require resonators aka antennas to function properly:

Don't touch the antenna. Don't design the device so that human contact, aka the skin, is either a potential or an actual practice with regular use of the device.

Microwave energy has some very unique properties to it, the most prevalent being that human skin - actually anything organic in nature - will "wick" the energy away to some degree based on the contact. Microwave energy is electricity in radio wave form, resonating at frequencies that happen to love organic materials.

You can get one level of signal degradation because of proximity with organic material (being close to the resonator), and you can increase that a magnitude or two by actually touching/bridging the circuit. Air has more resistance than skin does so... while holding the phone and not touching the metal antenna band will have one effect, if you actually do make physical direct contact with that antenna it's going to cause a much larger wicking action.

It gets complicated really fast, but the basic gist is don't touch the antenna, ever. If Apple did have some "magical" coating that should have been applied to every single iPhone 4 before it left whatever factory it was manufactured in, and in some cases/batches/entire shipments that coating was not applied - this is a theory but could be a potential answer, keep that in mind - then it would explain a lot of the problems, seriously it would since it practically covers the gamut of what people are experiencing when they hold the phone in the hand.

Nobody makes cell phones with antennas you can physically touch, skin-on-metal or skin-on-resonator direct physical contact, for a reason.

Just because Apple thinks it's "the wrong way" or they can do better doesn't mean - in this situation - that they're correct. I'm betting that my belief is true: it's defective because of the design (which means defective by design in reality). Thinking they can just throw out basic microwave transmission principles and rewrite several laws of physics doesn't make it so.

Not even The Reality Distortion Field is gonna be able to warp this BS into a workable solution.

 

[DMann]

I'm not saying the antenna is flawed. I'm saying the antenna does not work properly when the antenna is shorted against the other antenna. And yes, the two frequency bands do have a lot of different characteristics. One band is twice as high as the other band.

We'll then, perhaps they'll offer an antenna upgrade this week - me, I'll be going for the HDTV option.

 

[ski1ski1]

You probably did not see my post earlier (not your fault), but my experience with my iPhone 4 is that I have two completely difference experiences of where I'm at. Assuming my understanding of shorting is correct (which it may not be), then this shorting should occur regardless of what type of frequencies/etc are being used. But, at work, I "short" the two antennas all day long with no repercussions, and at home, a tiny touch will cause major issues.

I would just suggest that my own personal subjective experience is just as valid as yours, and to be so certain of it being a hardware issue is big mistake on your part.

As mentioned earlier, each frequency band has different characteristics. One band might be more sensitive to the antenna shorting then the other band. And your work and home locations might be serviced by different frequency bands. Thus explaining why it only affects your home location. Further proving my theory.

 

[trssho]

Couple of videos I posted on utube!

Couple of videos I made last night. Wasn't going to post them up, but if anyone wants to see my results, here you go.

First video shows scotch tape, and the second one shows that I can lose reception with just a fingertip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCCY_im7WE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NQwWfRtmm8

 

[wentwj]

Just because Apple thinks it's "the wrong way" or they can do better doesn't mean - in this situation - that they're correct. I'm betting that my belief is true: it's defective because of the design (which means defective by design in reality). Thinking they can just throw out basic microwave transmission principles and rewrite several laws of physics doesn't make it so.

To this, and the dozens of posters like this: I know you're very smart. It's great that you are giving your input on cell phone telecommunication. But so far every single post has basically said "This is basic stuff, and it's the problem", so I guess are you REALLY so arrogant as to assume that ALL the engineers working on the device lacked this basic understanding? Don't get me wrong, it's POSSIBLE, but for the time being anyway, I'm going to operate under the assumption that at the VERY least Apple's engineers had a BASIC understanding of telecommunication.

So maybe the device lacked a coating, maybe it's a software issue, maybe it is flat out the design. I don't know. But I think it's a little silly to all sit around and assume that it's the absolute most basic possible flaw. Granted it happens, there's no shortage of stories of really intelligent people making really bonehead mistakes, but, for the time being I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a little more nuanced than just "Apple didn't think skin would ever touch the antenna's, and did zero real world testing".

 

[wentwj]

It's not arbitrary. It is attempting to eliminate the unknowns. All other evidence I've seen is missing a lot of information. The most basic one "where are you? Where is the tower?" is missing from all that data. It's not missing from bb's account. That's what makes it not arbitrary, but specific.

If you're gonna give an account of your iPhone 4's reception issues, the most BASIC thing we need to know is where are you in relation to your nearest cell tower. Since even if we had that information, it is still sort of arbitrary... it'd be ideal if ALL REPORTS came from under a tower. That's not arbitrary, arn. That would clear up a crap load of unknowns.

Actually the varied tests give more confirmation. If every test was EXACTLY the same we'd have a whole lot of extra variables. Since nearly everyone, in a presumably random distribution, can reproduce the issue on demand, by touching a specific spot, that isolates the one variable we care about. Now if we were seeing scattering and inconsistent results that'd be one thing, but the VAST majority of people can reproduce this result, on cue, by only doing a single action (touching the place where the two antennas meet). This, in essence, does quite a bit to confirm that that action (connecting the two antennas) causes this issue. Now what's ACTUALLY causing the problem is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Tonewheel]

Moot

One week from today, this will all be moot.

 

[cmaier]

It's not arbitrary. It is attempting to eliminate the unknowns. All other evidence I've seen is missing a lot of information. The most basic one "where are you? Where is the tower?" is missing from all that data. It's not missing from bb's account. That's what makes it not arbitrary, but specific.

If you're gonna give an account of your iPhone 4's reception issues, the most BASIC thing we need to know is where are you in relation to your nearest cell tower. Since even if we had that information, it is still sort of arbitrary... it'd be ideal if ALL REPORTS came from under a tower. That's not arbitrary, arn. That would clear up a crap load of unknowns.

So you think you understand design of experiments not only better than engineers, but now better than doctors as well. Because you majored in history, so you'd know.

 

[RonHC]

If there were a update, what time will it usually release

 

[br0adband]

To this, and the dozens of posters like this: I know you're very smart. It's great that you are giving your input on cell phone telecommunication. But so far every single post has basically said "This is basic stuff, and it's the problem", so I guess are you REALLY so arrogant as to assume that ALL the engineers working on the device lacked this basic understanding? Don't get me wrong, it's POSSIBLE, but for the time being anyway, I'm going to operate under the assumption that at the VERY least Apple's engineers had a BASIC understanding of telecommunication.

So maybe the device lacked a coating, maybe it's a software issue, maybe it is flat out the design. I don't know. But I think it's a little silly to all sit around and assume that it's the absolute most basic possible flaw. Granted it happens, there's no shortage of stories of really intelligent people making really bonehead mistakes, but, for the time being I'll give Apple the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a little more nuanced than just "Apple didn't think skin would ever touch the antenna's, and did zero real world testing".

To prevent the skin-on-metal contact Apple came up with a "magical" solution:

Come on, open your mind for a change and look at that thing. It's a piece of rubber with one specific purpose:

To prevent the user from making skin-on-metal contact. It really does nothing else, it offers no "full body protection" as pretty much every other case for the iPhone 4 that exists on the market as of me making this post, and Apple is the only company making a bumper - nobody else is (at least I haven't been able to find anyone else making one).

There are probably 300+ companies that make accessories for the iPhones, and not one of them that I'm aware of as of this second makes a rubber band for the iPhone 4.

Put two and two together for yourself, just this one time, and step outside the box and see with your own eyes what Apple came up with as the "one true solution" for skin-on-metal signal attenuation negation.

I understood what the bumper was meant for the split second Steve Jobs mentioned it on stage at WWDC, and so did anyone else with any knowledge of antenna systems and microwave radio signal propagation I'll bet (if they even give a damn at this point).

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

 

[Sustainability]

Actually the varied tests give more confirmation. If every test was EXACTLY the same we'd have a whole lot of extra variables. Since nearly everyone, in a presumably random distribution, can reproduce the issue on demand, by touching a specific spot, that isolates the one variable we care about. Now if we were seeing scattering and inconsistent results that'd be one thing, but the VAST majority of people can reproduce this result, on cue, by only doing a single action (touching the place where the two antennas meet). This, in essence, does quite a bit to confirm that that action (connecting the two antennas) causes this issue. Now what's ACTUALLY causing the problem is a whole other can of worms.

This. This. This. This. This!

The fact that the same problem is occurring over a multitude of scenarios does in fact show that there very much IS an issue.

The cause is beyond my level of understanding at this juncture, but the argument that there is 'no factual evidence that there is an issue.' blows me away.

I'm actually shocked that this is still being discussed in this thread. I walk away for a few hours and people are still feeding into this conversation when I check back.

 

[Lyra]

sorry to go off topic, but since there is such a buzz of iPhone 4 users here, I have a quick question about mine and yours.

I've noticed that the back camera takes full resolution and the front doesn't. Is there any way to adjust the images taken with the front camera?

Very sad that you can't choose the quality of your film or photos...

:/

 

[br0adband]

One week from today, this will all be moot.

moot owns 4Chan, I doubt he's got anything to do with this.