Steve Jobs denies iP4 reception issues!

[br0adband]

Finally. Now, no one can doubt there is a problem with that guy's phone.
If we can get 100 more identical reports, then there can be no denying that a sufficient sampling has shown that something is wonky.

Welcome to science, everyone. I love it when a plan comes together.

/me notes the huge sound of a vacuum happening...

There are reports, more than 100, probably more than 1,000 for sure, they're just not confined to this forum - I've been hopping over 50 forums in the past few days and there are just as many posts about this defective phone and this specific issue across them and many others.

The issue isn't confined to people that own the iPhone 4 and happen to be a member here, not even.

You're no Hannibal Smith, I promise.

But as I said, it doesn't matter: the problem exists, it is reproducible in many different situations. Same problem/defect = reproducible in vast amounts of variant situations = the phone is borked.

 

[cloudberrybrew]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)



Sigh. There are hundreds of reports on the forums of issues - perhaps not of standing under a cell tower and 10s of thousands self reported problems on the forums.

You keep moving the bat out in the name of science but you are misusing the term just to further your doubts.

There is a signal problem for thousands of iPhone 4s at least. It is a out of proportion to the normal signal attenuation problem seen on all cell phones. It can be mimicked by shorting the two antennas by a piece if metal.

Phones that are affected or bt affected can be flipped to thenother state simply based on kidskin. There has been no direct examples of two phones having different behavior when in the same location.

I suspect every iPhone 4 has this potential defect and is entirely an issue related to the cell signal at the time of use.


arn

LOCK THIS THREAD ARN <3

 

[ryuuzaki]

Apparently you lack sufficient reading comprehension as that info about the tower's ownership is in the post, so I'll dismiss your question, thanks.

The issue doesn't lie with AT&T, it lies with the phone.

Just for the record: there is an AT&T building (a central office) two streets southwest of that cell site and it's signal is completely and totally blocked from line-of-sight transmission to that cell site because of that now fully constructed condominium tower; I can walk over and stand under that building if you want - it has a cell site on top, later tonight when it cools down, but then you and others will say "Oh the building itself is causing the signal issues."

The phone is defective, period.

"comprehension as that info about the tower's ownership is in the post, so I'll dismiss your question, thanks."

You stated you didn't know. That doesn't answer the question "who owns the tower?". The tower has an owner. It wasnt listed in the post. Calm down.

Learn to interpret my question properly next time.

 

[kalsta]

OK. THen you will accept as valid that just as many... nay, twice as many have reported no issue. Don't you see what we're missing here? Scientific rigor.

Yes, a lack of scientific rigour by yourself and others who deny a problem because they haven't personally witnessed it.

 

[cloudberrybrew]

/me notes the huge sound of a vacuum happening...

There are reports, more than 100, probably more than 1,000 for sure, they're just not confined to this forum - I've been hopping over 50 forums in the past few days and there are just as many posts about this defective phone and this specific issue across them and many others.

The issue isn't confined to people that own the iPhone 4 and happen to be a member here, not even.

You're no Hannibal Smith, I promise.

+1

 

[madmax_2069]

Copy Nd paste allow want - it does not say touching one spot eliminates reception. It says blocking the antenna (and it shows the entire bottom of the phone, not one spot) interferes with reception. No duh. We all know every phone gets worse reception of you block the antenna. On the phone 4 you do not have to block the antenna. You just have to make physical contact with One specific part of it that is nearly impossible to avoid. The whole antenna can be clear but one mm of it, and many of us get zero reception.

Contact with the antenna does not mean blocking it. They are talking about touching it in any way shape or form in that area.

That is why they say contact.

They outline the antenna so you will try to avoid that area from coming in contact with it.

That is why the picture shows two fingers crossed out.

I am not saying that it will completely kill the signal, i am just trying to get you to understand that they are meaning do not touch, come into contact with that location period.

although its not as severe as what the iPhone's issue is but it is along the lines the same thing. it could be as simple as the iPhone not handling interference correctly unlike the incredible.

 

[-aggie-]

/me notes the huge sound of a vacuum happening...

There are reports, more than 100, probably more than 1,000 for sure, they're just not confined to this forum - I've been hopping over 50 forums in the past few days and there are just as many posts about this defective phone and this specific issue across them and many others.

The issue isn't confined to people that own the iPhone 4 and happen to be a member here, not even.

You're no Hannibal Smith, I promise.

But as I said, it doesn't matter: the problem exists, it is reproducible in many different situations. Same problem/defect = reproducible in vast amounts of variant situations = the phone is borked.

See, what would happen is 100 people do the experiment, and then he’d say we need 100 more. I wished a mod (or Arn) would do something about this. This thread has been totally dominated by his ridiculous posts.

 

[morphineseason]

The iPhone is amazing. As a PMP/PDA. But as a phone, it's junk. As a photographer, I can tell you that a ton of people in my line of work have the iPhone. And I can tell you that it's damn near impossible to get a hold of any of them.

That's why the iPhone 4 is a big improvement over the previous phone. I don't know about other peoples' experiences, but aside from the death grip issue, I'm consistently getting 4 or 5 bars in areas where I used to get 2 or 3 bars on my 3GS. It's a shame the negative press is outweighing the great improvement to reception.

Hopefully this has been found to be a software issue and we can all update and move on. If not, I'll throw a bumper case on it (which I already planned on doing before the issue arose) and enjoy a superior device to my previous phone. I think it's BS that Steve Jobs' initial reaction was "non-issue. Don't hold the phone that way", but I do still believe that Apple will do the right thing and fix the issue, as they have done in the past. It's too widespread and easy to recreate to just ignore it.

 

[Anuba]

word, can't wait to see the final result and look back on all this and laugh

Yup, and then begins the daunting task of determining who has the right to rub "told ya so" in everyone's face. If Apple does release a fix, it's the people who complained who were right all along, but I have a feeling they're the ones who will be taunted by those who claimed there was no issue.

"HA! In your face! Go Apple!!"
"Umm..."

 

[br0adband]

I suspect every iPhone 4 has this potential defect and is entirely an issue related to the cell signal at the time of use.


arn

I completely agree with that, as far as the software glitch is concerned: I made a lengthy post with my theory earlier this morning but I can't even find it now *!!@#@?@?#@? but, as far as the attenuation issue and the phone simply not adjusting to contact could be fixable by firmware, that I do believe.

As for the shorting issue by bridging the seam... that's not something that can be addressed/solved quite so easily.

Even disabling Wi-Fi/GPS/Bluetooth isn't addressing the "Fingertip of Death" on my iPhone 4 as I hoped it would, so that shorting/bridging issue truly IS a hardware defect that a firmware fix isn't going to handle.

My opinion on that hardware thing, but my first-hand experience (pun intended) says it's broken.

I'm gonna shut up now as all I'm doing is repeating myself. My experience is now documented, do what you folks will with the information and hope it gets resolved for those that will keep their phones.

I won't...

ps
The nickname is br0adband, or bb... just bb.

 

[loretian]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as the issue of this being a software vs. hardware issue, I believe it's quite possibly a software issue. The reason being that I have two completely different experiences depending on where I am.

I don't know about this guy who stood under a cell phone tower or whatever, but generally, I think his experience is irrelevant.

What I've experienced is this: At home, in my apartment, where I used to get great reception with a 3GS, I have the problems as described by most people (though it doesn't matter which corner I cover, the left or right, it kills my connection). It seems to be extremely sensitive, and even a relatively short touch can disconnect me.

At work, though, the phone works completely perfectly. I can cover the all four corners/sides all day long and my signal does not degrade in any way.

This leads me to believe there is an issue with the software, and how it handles various types of signals based on the type of cell phone towers. Because this behavior is consistent (it's always bad at home, always great at work), I do believe many people have probably consistently experienced both situations, and a software fix that actually solves the problem (and doesn't just update the display of signal) is likely. If it were truly a hardware problem, covering the corners/antennas at work should cause me problems, but it does not.

 

[arn]

arn, if you have a problem with the method, then attack it, come up with a better one.

Your method is arbitrary. You accept one person's anecdotal data (standing under a cell tower) while discarding thousands of other reports of people at other areas of signal.

There's no "scientific" method that justifies accepting one and not the other. You are just making it up as you go along.

arn

 

[DMann]

Who the hell cares.

If the cell tower belongs to Verizon or Sprint, then the experiment was meaningless.

 

[ski1ski1]

I haven't read this whole thread, but as far as the issue of this being a software vs. hardware issue, I believe it's quite possibly a software issue. The reason being that I have two completely different experiences depending on where I am.

I don't know about this guy who stood under a cell phone tower or whatever, but generally, I think his experience is irrelevant.

What I've experienced is this: At home, in my apartment, where I used to get great reception with a 3GS, I have the problems as described by most people (though it doesn't matter which corner I cover, the left or right, it kills my connection). It seems to be extremely sensitive, and even a relatively short touch can disconnect me.

At work, though, the phone works completely perfectly. I can cover the all four corners/sides all day long and my signal does not degrade in any way.

This leads me to believe there is an issue with the software, and how it handles various types of signals based on the type of cell phone towers. Because this behavior is consistent (it's always bad at home, always great at work), I do believe many people have probably consistently experienced both situations, and a software fix that actually solves the problem (and doesn't just update the display of signal) is likely. If it were truly a hardware problem, covering the corners/antennas at work should cause me problems, but it does not.

Flawed conclusion. It can very well be hardware issue. AT&T uses two different frequencies bands (850 & 1900). Many locations are serviced by only one of these bands. My theory is that this hardware flaw only affects one of the frequencies bands. Thus why not everyone experiences the issue.

 

[hackum]

Phones that are affected or not affected can be flipped to thenother state simply based on location.. There has been no direct examples of two phones having different behavior when in the same location.
arn

You're wrong here. Two iPhones 4 in the same location, different behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS64wswavbY

 

[loretian]

Flawed conclusion. It can very well be hardware issue. AT&T uses two different frequencies bands (850 & 1900). Many locations are serviced by only one of these bands. My theory is that this hardware flaw that only affects one of the frequencies bands. Thus why not everyone experiences the issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding of how a finger would cause antenna issues would be entirely irrelevant from the frequencies used. Yes, the issue might be related to frequencies, but I don't see how the particular type of hardware issue in this case would actually relate to frequencies.

 

[ryuuzaki]

You're wrong here. Two iPhones 4 in the same location, different behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS64wswavbY

This was discussed earlier. The tester himself points out in the comments of the video that his phone displayed the issue after a while.

 

[arn]

You're wrong here. Two iPhones 4 in the same location, different behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS64wswavbY

The poster of the video wrote this in the comments

well, seems I spoke to soon. Both phones are now experiencing the issue. I cycled the power off and on because calls weren't going through. When it started back up I received a flood of new texts from the day before... It was as if it was getting NO signal at all for 24 hours, even though it said it had full bars.

so the challenge is still on.

arn

 

[ryuuzaki]

If the cell tower belongs to Verizon or Sprint, then the experiment was meaningless.

QFT.

 

[hackum]

The poster of the video wrote this in the comments



so the challenge is still on.

arn

Oh, ok ... I've missed that.
Interesting.

 

[ski1ski1]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding of how a finger would cause antenna issues would be entirely irrelevant from the frequencies used. Yes, the issue might be related to frequencies, but I don't see how the particular type of hardware issue in this case would actually relate to frequencies.

Yes, it's very relevant, Because this shorting of the two antennas could only one of the frequency bands.
The reception/transmission of one frequency band might be a lot more sensitive to the shorting. Each frequency band has different characteristics.

 

[kalsta]

Thus far, Br0adband's account is the ONLY one i've seen that even remotely covers the unknowns. We need more more more reports like his to conclude, nay, to merely hypothesize that every iPhone 4 has the issue.

chill1n, seriously mate… Don't just sit here and expect the information to come to you. That's not scientific. Take a little break from MacRumors and go spend a few hours visiting other forums, blogs, etc. There's a LOT of information out there, so 'a few hours' is probably a little optimistic. Get back to us in a day or two and let us know if you still think we need 'more more more reports'.

Until then, I'm done responding to you.

 

[mdatwood]

haha yeah and I told everyone I was a nokia-siemens networking higher-up, but no one listens these days

Haha...I'm not a denier and am not claiming to be some expert. I believe that a lot (all?) people are having problems, but I just don't think it's a HW issue yet. Understanding a signal that comes from an antenna (or any external sensor for that matter) is complicated business. Back in grad school a guy in my classes had worked for a cell phone maker. After he explained the complexities of simply connecting a call I'm still amazed to this day that cell phones work *at all*

The other part to keep in mind is HW is definitely required for a cell phone to work, but it's software that finds towers, handshakes, changes towers, adjusts signal power, etc... A bug in any of this can easily look like the 'omg the iphone HW is defective.'

Again, until Apple comes out and says we cannot/will not fix this I'm going to keep thinking it's a software issue.

 

[alanisrox69]

You're wrong here. Two iPhones 4 in the same location, different behavior:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS64wswavbY

Latest comment on that video:
dkendall77 5 hours ago
well, seems I spoke to soon. Both phones are now experiencing the issue. I cycled the power off and on because calls weren't going through. When it started back up I received a flood of new texts from the day before... It was as if it was getting NO signal at all for 24 hours, even though it said it had full bars.
Makes me think it's a software issue.

 

[cmaier]

Finally. Now, no one can doubt there is a problem with that guy's phone.
If we can get 100 more identical reports, then there can be no denying that a sufficient sampling has shown that something is wonky.

Welcome to science, everyone. I love it when a plan comes together.

Arn - can we get a one time waiver of the personal insult forum rules? ;-)

Also Arn, apparently the answer to your previous question is he now requires a hundred people under cell towers. Stage 3 will be a thousand, actually climbing the cell towers and bridging the phone to the cell with moist tongues. Stage 4 will require a historical religious figure to rise from the dead and declare a problem on CNN.