Steve Jobs denies iP4 reception issues!

[Mike Reed]

Not absurd. But I agree, there has been enough hooey about this that, yes, I hope to heaven some real non-biased scientists show some real experiment that actually stands up to review, unlike every so called "experiment" i've seen on iPhone 4. Every single one of those videos is from a different location with variables that we can't even begin to speculate about (video was made in a concrete and lead bunker... etc.... Who knows?)

I don't really see why their signal strength at their location has anything to do with the validity of the test. They aren't testing which signal strengths the phenomenon occurs with. They are testing that it happens at all. If the signal strength their area is bathed in doesn't change from the beginning of the experiment to the end, then that is not a variable within that experiment. It is as constant as reasonably possible.

They have shown that for their phone, and their hand, without touching the phone they get a y reception with x signal strength and with touching the phone they get z reception with x signal strength. x is the same. Their reception changes. Thus, they just proved that touching their phone screws up their reception. The value of x is irrelevant as it stays the same and it's not the thing being measured.

 

[admanimal]

sorry to go off topic, but since there is such a buzz of iPhone 4 users here, I have a quick question about mine and yours.

I've noticed that the back camera takes full resolution and the front doesn't. Is there any way to adjust the images taken with the front camera?

Very sad that you can't choose the quality of your film or photos...

:/

Both cameras take images at the full resolution they are capable of. The back is 5MP and the front is VGA.

 

[cmaier]

To prevent the skin-on-metal contact Apple came up with a "magical" solution:

Come on, open your mind for a change and look at that thing. It's a piece of rubber with one specific purpose:

To prevent the user from making skin-on-metal contact. It really does nothing else, it offers no "full body protection" as pretty much every other case for the iPhone 4 that exists on the market as of me making this post, and Apple is the only company making a bumper - nobody else is (at least I haven't been able to find anyone else making one).

There are probably 300+ companies that make accessories for the iPhones, and not one of them that I'm aware of as of this second makes a rubber band for the iPhone 4.

Put two and two together for yourself, just this one time, and step outside the box and see with your own eyes what Apple came up with as the "one true solution" for skin-on-metal signal attenuation negation.

I understood what the bumper was meant for the split second Steve Jobs mentioned it on stage at WWDC, and so did anyone else with any knowledge of antenna systems and microwave radio signal propagation I'll bet (if they even give a damn at this point).

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

Actually, an end-on crash would be most damaging to the iPhone. The rubber provides crumple zones. It actually does provide good protection, plus males the phone less slippery to hold.

 

[i.mac]

1020+ comments about nothing... a non issue.

Folks around this forum need to relax a bit... Someone said: go outside, the 3D graphics are magnificent...

 

[-aggie-]

To prevent the skin-on-metal contact Apple came up with a "magical” solution:

Come on, open your mind for a change and look at that thing. It's a piece of rubber with one specific purpose:

To prevent the user from making skin-on-metal contact. It really does nothing else, it offers no "full body protection" as pretty much every other case for the iPhone 4 that exists on the market as of me making this post, and Apple is the only company making a bumper - nobody else is (at least I haven't been able to find anyone else making one).

There are probably 300+ companies that make accessories for the iPhones, and not one of them that I'm aware of as of this second makes a rubber band for the iPhone 4.

Put two and two together for yourself, just this one time, and step outside the box and see with your own eyes what Apple came up with as the "one true solution" for skin-on-metal signal attenuation negation.

I understood what the bumper was meant for the split second Steve Jobs mentioned it on stage at WWDC, and so did anyone else with any knowledge of antenna systems and microwave radio signal propagation I'll bet (if they even give a damn at this point).

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

Are you saying the bumper doesn’t protect the front or back if you drop the phone?

 

[hackum]

To prevent the skin-on-metal contact Apple came up with a "magical" solution:

Come on, open your mind for a change and look at that thing. It's a piece of rubber with one specific purpose:

To prevent the user from making skin-on-metal contact. It really does nothing else, it offers no "full body protection" as pretty much every other case for the iPhone 4 that exists on the market as of me making this post, and Apple is the only company making a bumper - nobody else is (at least I haven't been able to find anyone else making one).

There are probably 300+ companies that make accessories for the iPhones, and not one of them that I'm aware of as of this second makes a rubber band for the iPhone 4.

Put two and two together for yourself, just this one time, and step outside the box and see with your own eyes what Apple came up with as the "one true solution" for skin-on-metal signal attenuation negation.

I understood what the bumper was meant for the split second Steve Jobs mentioned it on stage at WWDC, and so did anyone else with any knowledge of antenna systems and microwave radio signal propagation I'll bet (if they even give a damn at this point).

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

I completely agree. It is too much of a coincidence.

I believe they were in a rush to get the phone out and well into production before realizing there might be some issues with the antennas' reception.

 

[br0adband]

Actually, an end-on crash would be most damaging to the iPhone. The rubber provides crumple zones. It actually does provide good protection, plus males the phone less slippery to hold.

I've seen reports from a variety of people that have bumpers that even in spite of it, and a short fall to a carpeted floor, the glass still shatters. Rest of the phone, including the metal band? Flawless. Display? Shattered.

I get that it has a use, to some degree, but that's far different from the intended purpose.

 

[i.mac]

I completely agree. It is too much of a coincidence.

I believe they were in a rush to get the phone out and well into production before realizing there might be some issues with the antennas' reception.

blame gizmodo...

the engineer testing the antenna performance got his test phone stolen at a bar on his bday... this will be one of the key points in the upcoming legal battles.

 

[br0adband]

Are you saying the bumper doesn’t protect the front or back if you drop the phone?

How can something that doesn't offer any protection for the front surface or the back surface offer protection for said surfaces since it doesn't offer any protection for said surfaces?

*phew*

 

[Mike Reed]

To those suggesting it's a software issue, I'm curious. Given your knowledge of how the relevant technologies operate, if they update the firmware to be more robust or handle the switching more quickly and gracefully does that mean it's going to switch to poorer quality signals to work around the fact that you're touching it? If not, are the alternate modes it can switch to simply better tuned to work while you're touching it but otherwise just as strong, fast, and clear as the original signal?

 

[mdatwood]

My hypothesis is not flawed. The antenna appears very much flawed with it shorted against the other antenna. Did the Apple hardware engineers test this scenario ? Who knows ? But your hypothesis is flawed. Are you saying the hardware engineers *must* have tested this shorting scenario, but the software engineers didn't test it ? One of the engineering groups are at fault here. Why must it be the software group ?

I'm not saying they *must* have tested anything. You're the one saying that the HW engineers never thought to test what would happen if a finger touched that spot on the phone. Given the HW guys I know, I find it hard to believe that Apple completely missed this on the HW side. They could have, but it seems very unlikely given how HW is created. Do you really think the HW engineers at Apple needed randoms on the internet to wonder what would happen if a finger bridged the antenna gap? Really?

Software on the other hand is rapidly changing. I had all the betas of IOS4 and it went from barely usable to finished in just a short amount of time (while the final HW design seemed finished for quite some time). All those changes going in all the time can easily break something. Add in the short testing time they had between final software and release of the phone and it seems very plausible they missed a bug.

Again, anything is possible, but I just don't see Apple missing such a large HW bug like this given how long the HW was likely in development. The antenna is also a brand new feature that likely would have gotten even extra testing. IOS4 on the other hand (and the iPhone4 firmware) was likely changing right up until release. The only evidence that will prove either way is if Apple can't release a software fix. Everything else is just speculation, so for now I just look at the simplest possible cause, software.

 

[RS2010]

Impressive!

1000+ comments! Impressive!
As someone who has used Apple products for years, and have an iP4 without the reception problem, I find the enthusiasm shown by some (who have already decided to return the iPhone, no matter what) in putting Apple down is "impressive". Almost as if waiting would make the opportunity (to trash Apple and Jobs) go away. This on a supposedly Mac-friendly forum. Perhaps others happy with iP4 are staying away.

 

[wentwj]

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

I'd maybe buy that a little more if I didn't want the bumper BEFORE this all happened. I've ALWAYS hated cases for my cell phone, because I feel like all I'm doing is covering up a lot of the design that I care about. The bumper on the other hand, leaves the design visible, doesn't add a significant amount of weight to the phone, and gives a little lip to the front and back as a slight buffer for falls.

I was undecided before this issue came up, and over the last few days have experimented with the case on and off (the reception issue, actually, doesn't effect me enough to care about using the phone naked). I think I've decided to keep it on, regardless of what happens with the reception issues.

My girlfriend, who also got an iPhone4 and was totally unaware of the reception issue, decided to put the case on.

I think the whole big Apple made the case to fix this issue conspiracy is a crazy one. This issue is pissing off a LOT of people, if they knew it needed a case, they would have just built it into the design.

Now if they DIDN'T have a case, and then came out with one next week, but STILL didn't acknowledge a problem, that'd be another story. I'm skeptical that Apple engineering is stupid enough to not test this hardware problem, but it'd take a screw up of EPIC proportions on ALL levels of Apple, for Apple to intentionally shoot itself in the foot like this, just to sell some extra $30 case. Just raising the price of the phone $30 wouldn't have caused nearly the negative reaction this has.

 

[Lyra]

Both cameras take images at the full resolution they are capable of. The back is 5MP and the front is VGA.

O_O

Great... then there's something wrong with my iPhone. The photos transferred from my iPhone differ in quality from those taken from the back and those taken from the front.

The BACK camera takes pictures at 2592 × 1936 pixels and 72 DPI RGB. Now the FRONT camera on the other hand takes pictures at 480 × 640 pixels and 72 DPI RGB.

The issue for me is that there is NO where, you can adjust the quality of the images in any way.

So I don't know what this means, but mine isn't doing full res on both cameras.

 

[wentwj]

sorry to go off topic, but since there is such a buzz of iPhone 4 users here, I have a quick question about mine and yours.

I've noticed that the back camera takes full resolution and the front doesn't. Is there any way to adjust the images taken with the front camera?

Very sad that you can't choose the quality of your film or photos...

:/

The front camera is not the same quality, it's way lower. It's only designed for things like FaceTime, not for taking full high quality photos like the rear camera.

 

[wentwj]

Do you think the test still valid in an area with zero cell reception? Like deep deep in South Bend TX or something?

The problem with not knowing their signal strength is that if the cell is weak anyway, that could be why the call drops, even if the indicator shows 5 bars. Could. We don't know... except with bb's gracious account, because he filled in the details: we know he should have excellent cell under that tower. We don't have any idea what the cell reception availability is like in the other cases.

But EVERYONE can reproduce this issue, on demand, by doing a single action, regardless of where they are. This ISOLATES the one variable we care about. Now granted, it would be really nice if we had a large controlled study testing this one variable under a variety of conditions. However, barring that, a large sample size of random data is pretty indicative of a problem... you have to be PRETTY stubborn to not recognize that there at least is an issue with a significant (if not nearly all) iPhone 4s under many conditions.

 

[mdatwood]

Why can't people just open their eyes and see what that bumper is for, seriously? I can't be the only person that doesn't drink the Kool-Aid?

(Disclaimer: right now I'm drinking some Tropical Punch Kool-Aid my Wife made me earlier... no kidding)

I see what you're trying to say, but the bumper is about the only case I've ever considered getting. On my iPhone 2G I ended up betting a full back/side rubber case b/c the phone kept slipping out of my hand. I didn't get a case on my 3GS because I don't like cases and decided to just make sure I held on tight I've almost dropped it a few times, but managed to catch it each time. A small ring around the phone is exactly the kind of case I want so that it adds some grip. Now, it could be argued that the slim slipper sides of the iphone have been a design flaw since day 1, but I don't think adding the bumper case the lineup has anything to do with the current issue.

If anything Apple saw how much money all these case makers were raking in and wanted to get in on the party, just like with iAd or any other number of ancillary products Apple releases.

 

[wentwj]

How can something that doesn't offer any protection for the front surface or the back surface offer protection for said surfaces since it doesn't offer any protection for said surfaces?

*phew*

It does. You saying it doesn't don't mean anything. It's not a LARGE amount of protection, but it provides a lip. This hard rubber lip is hit first on nearly ANY fall on a relatively flat surface, thus cushioning the phone to some degree.

You HONESTLY think, Apple decided "Hey, we have a large reception issue, that's REALLY going to piss off a lot of people, because it's so blatantly obvious... I know, we'll sell them some $30 rubber to fix it!" You think Apple Engineering, Steve Jobs, and Apple Marking are ALL stupid enough to think that, obviously flawed plan would work?

Pushing back the launch 30 days to get a coating on the devices would have caused MUCH less of an uproar... and what's worse is the case and phone were announced at the same time, so they wouldn't have even had to push back the release, since it wasn't officially announced. I just don't see any plausibility to the "Apple knew this all along, that's why they made this case" conspiracy theory.

 

[compg318]

So I was on the way home from Michigan to Chicago and it seemed like my i4 had major problems switching towers. In a case the entire time I will add. I also had a iPad 3G and my friend with me had an iPhone 3G. Each moved from edge to 3G flawlessly, while mine went to no service until I went in and out of airplane mode. Never touching the "death spot" as some of you call it.

I'm hoping software.

Sent from my iPhone 4

 

[Mike Reed]

How can something that doesn't offer any protection for the front surface or the back surface offer protection for said surfaces since it doesn't offer any protection for said surfaces?

*phew*

Personally I wanted to get one anyway before I even knew about the reception issues. I don't want a huge case that makes it bulky, or film that gets stuff stuck under it or peels - I just want something to make me more unlikely to drop it in the first place. The fact that I can stop worrying about where I'm touching it when I'm using it is certainly a welcome side effect.

 

[d00m42]

So you think you understand design of experiments not only better than engineers, but now better than doctors as well. Because you majored in history, so you'd know.

He's right in the sense that too many changed variables will ruin an experiment. You need to vary one thing at a time, otherwise there's no way to come to a real conclusion.

 

[cmaier]

OK, your statement is patently false. THere have been a number posters on this forum who have reported no issues whatsoever. This leads me to believe that IF THERE IS AN ISSUE we do not ALWAYS see it because of UNKNOWN VARIABLES. Get it? The unknown is the availability of cell frequencies. The unknown is eliminated beneath a cell tower.

You have no basis for either of those statements. Some phones may be broken and others not. It could be a function of the strength of the second closest tower. It could be relative humidity. Your damned "under the cell tower" requirement is arbitrary and based on an arbitrary and unproven premise. (and in my opinion a false one - a microcell is a far better test since it swamps the signal from all other towers and can be turned on and off, and you can tell when the phone is using it, and I know for a fact that affected phones experience the problem with microcells.)

And don't argue that not knowing why some phones work and some don't is evidence that all work. Those are two different questions.

He's right in the sense that too many changed variables will ruin an experiment. You need to vary one thing at a time, otherwise there's no way to come to a real conclusion.

Sigh. That's simply not true. There's an entire field of science called "design of experiments" that teaches you how to perform experiments with multiple independent variables.

 

[DMann]

But EVERYONE can reproduce this issue, on demand, by doing a single action, regardless of where they are. This ISOLATES the one variable we care about. Now granted, it would be really nice if we had a large controlled study testing this one variable under a variety of conditions. However, barring that, a large sample size of random data is pretty indicative of a problem... you have to be PRETTY stubborn to not recognize that there at least is an issue with a significant (if not nearly all) iPhone 4s under many conditions.

This is simply not true - I have yet to reproduce the issue.

 

[-aggie-]

You have no basis for either of those statements. Some phones may be broken and others not. It could be a function of the strength of the second closest tower. It could be relative humidity. Your damned "under the cell tower" requirement is arbitrary and based on an arbitrary and unproven premise. (and in my opinion a false one - a microcell is a far better test since it swamps the signal from all other towers and can be turned on and off, and you can tell when the phone is using it, and I know for a fact that affected phones experience the problem with microcells.)

And don't argue that not knowing why some phones work and some don't is evidence that all work. Those are two different questions.

He’s already got a result under a cell tower, and now he wants more results. You’re wasting your time arguing with him.

 

[wentwj]

This is simply not true - I have yet to reproduce the issue.

You are correct, I should have said NEARLY everyone, or at the very least a significant percentage.

If you look back at my post history (I don't expect you too, unless you don't trust me), I originally was skeptical that the issue effected my devices. I couldn't get it to happen on my phone. In fact it took me a LONG time to, and I still have only once been able to get it to drop a call (I was attempting to cause this at the time). I still can't get it to happen 100% of the time, but when it happens it CLEARLY is tied to me putting my thumb, or any conductive material, no matter how small, between the two antennas.

Honestly, I don't think the "kill zone" will affect my day to day usage, but I still acknowledge it as a problem that Apple should fix. I hope, for there sake it's software (I still content there's very little chance any of use can determine if it's truly hardware or software at this point)