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I do wish him all the best. I can't help but think of a great mucical trio that just so happen to be coming to my town in August--Crosby Still and Nash. And how long has it been since David Crosby received his new liver--or is he on his thrid liver? Not sure but he seems to be hanging in there just fine--a miracle considering how much abuse his original liver received. So one can only hope.
 
go read up on liver transplants, if he does live for 5 more years he'll need another and another....thats assuming he makes it.

I'll say it again absolute crap. I won't explain how I know but believe me liver transplants can last a lot longer than 5 years, with people leading a normal life.
 
pretty amazing that this was kept under wraps for 2 months...

What's more amazing is that this becomes a point of importance to Apple pundits and stock analysts. Steve was away from the company at the time, making what he does (or has done to him by a surgeon) none of our business. When he comes back, if he comes back, his health at that time will be important in determining how much longer he plans to be an active part of the company.

Steve's health concerns are unfortunate for him and his family, but he hasn't been a healthy many for a very long time.
 
And if a company's well-being evolves around just one person something's very wrong :eek:

It doesn't. As long as Tim Cook is at the helm, with all the "creatives" in their proper roles, Apple will keep moving forward.

At this point, in 2009, I really don't see why Apple would "need" Steve Jobs. The man is brilliant, but so is his team. Apple has the best team in the industry, bar none, and has what it takes to keep attracting the best. All Apple needs is a firm hand at the helm. Tim Cook has so far gone above and beyond in that regard. Small wonder why Jobs places so much faith in him.

I'm pretty sure that when Apple designers and engineers sit down for a roundtable discussion, they're fairly well aware of the kind of thinking that is epxected of them. When I hear Bertrand Serlet remark about how Apple comes at the whole tech game "from a different place", I know things are alright. That's Jobsian thinking right there. And the continued (and very well-placed) swipes at Windows are Jobsian balls. It's like hearing that "they have no taste" interview with Jobs years ago. Even in his absence, and I daresay (God forbid), in his passing, he'll always be there. There is no way Apple can continue to succeed without embracing, and continuing to embrace, Jobsian thinking.

At some point the students can go on without their teacher. From what we're seeing, Phil, Scott, Bertrand, and the rest of the team are examples of that.
 
That is an absolute falsehood.

Hypothetical Example:

1)Warren Buffet is diagnosed with terminal brain cancer
2)He is on "medical leave" to have tumor removed, but only for palliation of symptoms
3) Board says "he just had to have a toenail removed, that's all"
4) Shareholders therefore are not allowed to make decisions based on actual facts

Would you still argue your point as stated above?

but that isn't what happened.
Once he is on medical leave don't need to disclose more details or give a blow by blow of what the minutia of the issue is. The fact that someone is on a medical leave and not taking "sick days" means that it is a serious medical issue. Whether that person is going to die in 2 months or 10 years from now is immaterial. Right now, that person isn't running the company. If you think that is critical for your investment, you know.

Likewise, until the company has solid information on long term impact, it is also irresponsible to issue incomplete, extremely speculative information. What the specific, accurate prognosis is of the surgery will not be known until a while after the transplant when the immune suppressant drugs have taken hold (or not).


If they knowingly misled the public with statements like "it's a simple hormone imbalance" when indeed it was known to them that such was not the truth, well then they have completely failed at their fiduciary responsibility as board members (and yes, I'm quite familiar with those responsibilities) and there will be legal consequences eventually I'm quite sure, which further depress shareholder value.

The key factor above is the deception. It has very little to do with health specifics or expanding privacy boundaries.

If that was the most recent attempt as a diagnosis they had at the time there is no problem. If they lied ( because knew that would keep the stock price up) then they are in trouble. However, the liver problem could have been another cascade failure that only surfaced after they started to correct for the hormone inbalance. When one part of the body's systems is screwed up it is harder to diagnose the problems other parts may be having.
So if his weight came back and his liver was still off they could then surface a second problem.

Additionally, a improperly working liver can also cause a hormone imbalance. If Jobs has an unusual (or just bad for hormones) diet then first will try to correct that. (Vegan isn't mainstream and while not necessarily bad, if Jobs was eating badly/unbalanced ) Jumping to the conclusion need to "buy" a new liver is a huge jump (and more likely first step if surgeons are running the show). So perhaps, more so the optimistic diagnosis than what turned out to be a more accurate one. In complicated diagnosis the doctors always get it 100% right on their first stab? For a cold yeah. For multiple interdependent organ problems.. often not.



If boards got sued for plausible diagnosis of the market that later turned out not to be really true once have done deeper research and got better information, then the vast majority of them would be in deep trouble. They are not.

Companies need to be absolutely precise as to what has happened. There is a tension where many who invest want companies to have perfect reporting about what is going to happen in the future. (because they price in future earnings from 2-3 years from now into the current price ... dubious when dig into the practical accuracy of that. )


P.S. I think folks are leaping to the "deliberate lie" track because the Jan. 5th it is a "doctors think ... solution is easy" and then less than a couple months from that later: new liver (or new partial liver). The hormone imbalance was more a symptom than the root cause.
The express track to getting the operation does reflect that it was his #1 priority.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/05sjletter.html
Jacked up liver can throw an imbalance. So still plausibly true.

The twisted part is "the solution is easy". I have a suspicion that the doctors didn't spin it as "easy" (or if did, got better doctors later).

All of which was followed by the 14th " it is way more complex than I thought"

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/14advisory.html

Seems much more plausible that Steve was fooling himself much more than trying to fool investors. Optimistically thinking could
eat his way out of the problem rather than go under the knife. Push come to shove though, fessed up (the situation is very jacked up ... which is all the detail really necessary) and went on leave.
 
...this entire thread is probably based on a Wall Street Journal hack, sitting in a restaurant and miss-hearing Steve Jobs, seven tables over ordering a pate starter
 
Apple's board is not responsible for the stupidity of investors, they are responsible for the financial well-doing of Apple. If the board decides that they have adequate replacement for Jobs in place, which they apparently had, if we judge by the last months, then they are fine. Just because some stupid investor believes that Apple has no replacement for Jobs, that doesn't make it true.

And as you said yourself, it was the _story_ of Jobs' illness that caused the trouble, not his illness itself.

"Apple's board is not responsible for the stupidity of investors"...the 'stupidity of investors'? Maybe I am taking it out of context, but if not for 'stupid investors', there would be no Apple. The people funding Apple deserve to know what's going on. Jobs is a superstar. With stars, the privacy factor is zero. Right or wrong, that is the way it is.

There is no replacement for Jobs. Jobs is a visionary, a true genius...a once every 100 years person. Gates is a great marketer and businessman. Dell knows how to maximize a process (like Henry Ford). But Jobs doesn't care about the marketing or the process, he cares about the product and the relationship with the user...the experience. I hope for a long life for Jobs. But eventually he will be gone (like the rest of us). Apple needs to promote from within. No Pepsi guys, no GE guys, no big corporate guys. OK, sorry to say, but Jobs is Obi Wan. Hopefully there is a Luke Skywalker in the wings.
 
One thing folks seem to be overlooking in this discussion is cancer and cancer treatment in general.

Cancer can be a challenge to diagnose and treat. Cancer can spread. Cancer can go into remission and then reappear.

While we know much more about cancer today than we did 10, 20, 30 years ago, the medical field still has much to learn about this dreaded disease.

My point is that with SJ, this has been an ongoing journey to solve his problem. There isn't an existing roadmap to follow. Individuals are different in how they respond to treatment. Doctors use indicators. Not always are the indicators clear. Many require further testing to determine the root cause -- if possible.

Anybody who believes that cancer treatment is an exact science has not had a loved one die from that disease. It's not a fun experience.
 
Let's put on our critical glasses

This is printed, unsourced, in the Wall Street Journal, which, like much of the financial/Wall Street crowd, hates Jobs, and is very happy to spread rumors about him. Why do they hate Jobs? His management as kept cash on hand, and avoided the complete enslavement to Wall Street idiots. Seriously, everything about Jobs makes the slathering financial press go nuts. They've encouraged every health rumor possible. There was that campaign to get the stock backdating "scandal" to be the impulse to kick SJ out. Pretty hard deal to make, since the stockholders love SJ, because Apple's one of the big success stories of the last 10 years. His income is richly deserved.

Normally, I hate conspiracy theories, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Fake SJ starts blogging again while rumors like this abound. Remember the iReporter that swore that Jobs was taken out of Apple on a stretcher because of a heart attack? It drove Apple's stock down, and then it quickly went back up. Someone made a lot of money on that. This, and the Forbes idiot pretending he's SJ, is no accident.
 
This is printed, unsourced, in the Wall Street Journal, which, like much of the financial/Wall Street crowd, hates Jobs, and is very happy to spread rumors about him. Why do they hate Jobs? His management as kept cash on hand, and avoided the complete enslavement to Wall Street idiots. Seriously, everything about Jobs makes the slathering financial press go nuts. They've encouraged every health rumor possible. There was that campaign to get the stock backdating "scandal" to be the impulse to kick SJ out. Pretty hard deal to make, since the stockholders love SJ, because Apple's one of the big success stories of the last 10 years. His income is richly deserved.

Normally, I hate conspiracy theories, but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Fake SJ starts blogging again while rumors like this abound. Remember the iReporter that swore that Jobs was taken out of Apple on a stretcher because of a heart attack? It drove Apple's stock down, and then it quickly went back up. Someone made a lot of money on that. This, and the Forbes idiot pretending he's SJ, is no accident.

1) They've been dead on about those rumors.
2) That stock back dating scandal was criminal, but it's the sort of thing you only get in trouble for if the stock tanks. So long as the stock stays high no one wants to complain about it.
 
Some people on here need to go and take a long, hard look in the mirror.

Why?

Because the amount of people who are, from what I gather, non-shareholders mouthing off about the "dishonesty" from both Apple and Jobs himself is nothing short of disgusting.

Did Jobs not revealing his illness or it's severity stop your Macintosh from working?

Did Jobs not revealing his illness or it's severity halt the launch of your brand new iPhone?

Did Jobs not revealing his illness or it's severity delay the progress of OS X Snow Leopard?

And most importantly, did Jobs not revealing his illness or it's severity stop you from living your life, a life which must be pretty dull if that's what you find to obsess over.

If you hold shares in Apple, and I mean substantial shares, then you have a rightful interest. However, these people going on about Apple's dishonesty when, in reality, it makes no difference to them, their income, or their lives need to get get a life.
 
"Apple's board is not responsible for the stupidity of investors"...the 'stupidity of investors'? Maybe I am taking it out of context, but if not for 'stupid investors', there would be no Apple. The people funding Apple deserve to know what's going on. Jobs is a superstar. With stars, the privacy factor is zero. Right or wrong, that is the way it is.

There is no replacement for Jobs. Jobs is a visionary, a true genius...a once every 100 years person. Gates is a great marketer and businessman. Dell knows how to maximize a process (like Henry Ford). But Jobs doesn't care about the marketing or the process, he cares about the product and the relationship with the user...the experience. I hope for a long life for Jobs. But eventually he will be gone (like the rest of us). Apple needs to promote from within. No Pepsi guys, no GE guys, no big corporate guys. OK, sorry to say, but Jobs is Obi Wan. Hopefully there is a Luke Skywalker in the wings.

Bunny, you fluffed it all wrong. I didn't say "investors are stupid", I said "some investors are stupid". And we have seen many, many examples of that. Like four billion lost from Apple's market caps when some idiot announces that Steve Jobs is dead. Now after Steve Jobs, Steven Wozniak, and Mike Markula, I don't think Apple has _needed_ any investor.

When you say "with stars, the privacy factor is zero": No, you've got that wrong. There are people who have created a career out of being in the public eye, who shove their life into the newspapers and on TV as much as they can, and they would only be hypocritical if they suddenly demanded privacy when the product they are selling is themselves. But that is not what Steve Jobs is doing or what he ever has been doing. He is not selling himself, he is selling products, guiding/kicking developers and marketing people alike in the right direction. What he is doing in his private life is just his own business. You may be as curious which women Steve Jobs kissed in the last month as you are curious which women Britney Spears kissed. The difference is that with Steve Jobs, you have no right to know. With Britney Spears, she has done it for publicity before, so buy papers reporting that kind of dreck if you want.

To make it a bit clearer: Due to the work that Steve Jobs has done, you arguably have a right to know what computer model he uses, and what phone. You don't have a right to know who he calls on his iPhone.
 
I had a liver transplant myself 18 months ago (cancer related as well). Let's hope Steve's recovery goes as well as mine.

This should serve as a reminder to everyone to become an organ donor.

DONATE LIFE!

PROPOSAL: any subsequent posts on this thread, the poster should declare whether he/she is or is not an organ donor.

Let me start: I am an organ donor.

If this thread could get just ten or 20 or 100 people to sign up, then all the rest of this drivel would have accomplished something worthwhile, and would have shown far more respect for Steve than anything anyone can say.
 
It's all about karma since SJ is Buddhist. He may have deprived someone in Tennessee who's seriously in need of a liver transplant by jumping the queue. Hope he gets better. But don't think he could escape the fate of karma eventually. He needs to be a better person.


Who's to say he hasn't been on a waiting list for years?
 
...they would only be hypocritical if they suddenly demanded privacy when the product they are selling is themselves. But that is not what Steve Jobs is doing or what he ever has been doing. He is not selling himself, he is selling products, guiding/kicking developers and marketing people alike in the right direction.

Kind of interesting how this multitude of folks who actually deliver the product to market never make it onto the stage when it comes presentation time. In a Steve show usually it is a 10 second applause moment at the end of the 60-90 minute presentation with a "let's hear it for those folks who worked hard to pull this off.".

How much time does Steve spend on stage talking about a specific feature he didn't primarily drive to this particular finished form? Classically (since the return) who is doing the bulk of the demos?

A couple of the images that pop up when do an image search on Google for Steve Jobs.
http://www.geckoandfly.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/steve_jobs_ipod_cover.jpg
http://blog.anthonybeard.com/2009/01/24/jobs1984.jpg

or more specifically "Steve Jobs magazine cover"
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1997/1101970818_400.jpg
http://creativebits.org/files/1101020114_400.jpg
http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/steve-jobs-cover.jpg


(also the lack of Pixar/Jobs photos in the top level of hits. )

Mostly agree with not selling himself as an celebrity independent of the products. However, it certainly isn't like he is the Masamune Shirow of the tech world.
 
I had a liver transplant myself 18 months ago (cancer related as well). Let's hope Steve's recovery goes as well as mine.

This should serve as a reminder to everyone to become an organ donor.

DONATE LIFE!


Best of luck to you and congratulations!

Do you mind if we ask how long you had to wait, and how sick you needed to be before getting the liver? There is a lot of speculation going on here and you have first hand knowledge.
 
PROPOSAL: any subsequent posts on this thread, the poster should declare whether he/she is or is not an organ donor.

Let me start: I am an organ donor.

If this thread could get just ten or 20 or 100 people to sign up, then all the rest of this drivel would have accomplished something worthwhile, and would have shown far more respect for Steve than anything anyone can say.


Really, are you an organ donor or someone who has given permission for your organs to be used in the case of your demise? There is a difference, as most (not all) organ donors are dead.
 
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