Some people apparently don't understand those points.
There were no Mini-DisplayPort peripherals on the market when Apple introduced new laptops with Mini-DisplayPort connectors.
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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There were no Mini-DisplayPort peripherals on the market when Apple introduced new laptops with Mini-DisplayPort connectors.
Firewire is not coming back
I don't think we're going to see FireWire on the MacBook ever again.
As others have pointed out, USB3 is getting finalized and introduced in the marketplace soon. And as others have also pointed out, the re-tooling for FireWire will take some time to get it back on the MacBook.
By 2010, Apple will probably just put USB3 on the MacBook and skip the re-tooling. No extra ports to try to fit in, and backward compatibility with extra speed.
By that time, people who absolutely needed FireWire either traded up to a MacBook Pro, went with the white MacBook, or just kept what they had.
I would not hold my breath for FireWire to return to the MacBook.
I don't think we're going to see FireWire on the MacBook ever again.
As others have pointed out, USB3 is getting finalized and introduced in the marketplace soon. And as others have also pointed out, the re-tooling for FireWire will take some time to get it back on the MacBook.
By 2010, Apple will probably just put USB3 on the MacBook and skip the re-tooling. No extra ports to try to fit in, and backward compatibility with extra speed.
By that time, people who absolutely needed FireWire either traded up to a MacBook Pro, went with the white MacBook, or just kept what they had.
I would not hold my breath for FireWire to return to the MacBook.
Or, moved to a Windows machine. I hope Apple doesn't drive away some of their core users...
If Windows 7 has improved like early reports claim, and Windows laptop manufacturers make affordable machines with FireWire options, Apple will lose some customers.
OK Mr analord, the MBP may be just a little heavier, but it's a darn site bulkier and not as portable, and for budget concerns a hell of a lot more viable for many users
You clearly don't know what you're talking about with this do you, the reason that USB is inferior to firewire for audio (and video) has nothing to do with it's speed, it's to do with the way the data is moved, FW can move at a constant rate, meaning no samples are lost (or frames for video). USB cannot do this in the same manner, meaning that you will inevitably get pops and clicks in the audio (or dropped frames for video), so only an uneducated atard would make the assumption that firewire is "going out".
There were no Mini-DisplayPort peripherals on the market when Apple introduced new laptops with Mini-DisplayPort connectors.
You actually think that music producers, musicians, and the whole audio world is going to stop recording/making music and patiently wait until USB3 equipment hits the streets a few years from now? The "promise" of USB2 fell flat on its face. Oh, it looked good on paper, but it couldn't do what even FW400 does in regards to audio. Few sane people would bet the farm on the yet to be proven in the real world specs of USB3. Not if their income depended on it.
Buy a clue. Most of the people involved in the creation of music aren't dreamers -- they're doers. You may live in some imaginary future world, but the rest of us live (and do our creative work) in the present.
Of course not. They'll bitch and whine and moan about no Firewire on a 13" laptop, and they'll keep using what they've got until it's not fast enough, and then they'll either buy a 15" laptop and grumble a little or... or what?
Clearly the bitching/whining/moaning isn't going to make a Firewire port magically appear on the MacBook, so why all this brouhaha? Keep doing what you do, then buy a MacBook Pro (in the meantime all that music you've made will obviously pay the $400 difference), and deal with an extra pound a couple extra inches. If you're toting around all this Firewire gear (and God knows what else), is that really going to make that much of a difference?
This is definitely a mountain/molehill situation.
Also, as to Steve's comment about HD camcorders, Apple has been SERIOUSLY pushing AVCHD/flash-based camcorders since they started appearing a couple years ago. I'd say they're a fair sight better than their HDV brethren (because, let's face it, **** tapes). And if you're shooting anything higher than that (DVCPRO HD, for instance), you're not using a MacBook anyway.
EDIT: I cannot ****ing believe there are nearly 2500 posts in this thread. Amazing.
It'll sure make a difference if the music and video pros start exiting the platform. Those with careers, mouths to feed, mortgages, and car loans can't afford to go by Apple's whims.
or finally leave the Apple fold.
Also, as to Steve's comment about HD camcorders, Apple has been SERIOUSLY pushing AVCHD/flash-based camcorders since they started appearing a couple years ago. I'd say they're a fair sight better than their HDV brethren (because, let's face it, **** tapes). And if you're shooting anything higher than that (DVCPRO HD, for instance), you're not using a MacBook anyway.
EDIT: I cannot ****ing believe there are nearly 2500 posts in this thread. Amazing.
Please define "seriously pushing"... You may like tapeless better, but AVCHD camcorders are no where near the quality of the DV options. And Apple is still selling DV camcorders on their website today! (http://store.apple.com/us/product/TR121LL/A "Top of the ZR line, Canon's ZR950. Featuring Easy sharing via FireWire/IEEE 1394 connection.") In fact, when I searched there for "video camera", all I found were FW cameras. Where's the big push again?
Maybe the fact that there are 2500 posts means that people with far more at stake than you are upset, are complaining, and are willing to jump ship if Apple doesn't listen. Tell me - why do you care enough to coming in here and talk down to them as if you had a clue about their situation?!
One thing to remember about the tapes, is that they make for a great archive of raw footage, and you can use them to back up your finished presentations/video by exporting to the MiniDV device via FW.
I'm sure at some point this question has been posed (perhaps on this page). Could there be an industry wide role in getting Apple to care about FW in MacBooks? Do anyone else but consumers have a stake in this?
Could peripheral manufacturers simply say, "We have to use FW, Apple has cut out the largest segment of potential customers by eliminating FW from their best selling computer, so we're just not going to waste time developing our software for Macs any longer."
I recognize this hurts customers, companies, and Apple in the process. But sometimes that kind of statement from a company is more meaningful to another company than its customers (as funny as that is to say).
Could peripheral manufacturers simply say, "We have to use FW, Apple has cut out the largest segment of potential customers by eliminating FW from their best selling computer, so we're just not going to waste time developing our software for Macs any longer."
I recognize this hurts customers, companies, and Apple in the process. But sometimes that kind of statement from a company is more meaningful to another company than its customers (as funny as that is to say).
The only thing unbelievable here is your attitude. Because it doesn't effect you, it's not a big deal? Sorry, but the world does not revolve around you. THAT is why there are 100 pages.EDIT: I cannot ****ing believe there are nearly 2500 posts in this thread. Amazing.
Real people, real needs. And Apple has decided not to fulfill them. Because Steve can afford the latest and greatest HD camcorder, doesn't mean everyone else can. I was SOOO looking forward to this Macbook, then I got stabbed in the back by Steve's desire to upsell. So I'm pissed.
Heck, I wish there were 200 pages, and more of an uproar. And I'd also wish you would leave this thread because it obviously doesn't concern you.
I don't think this will happen, but it does strike me funny every time I see an ad or a review in MacWorld or Mac Life magazine declaring the benefits of firewire connectivity for products. Just last night I saw an almost full page ad for firewire cables for digital cameras. It's not just camcorders, even brand new ones, that use firewire, there are literally thousands of products that use firewire.
I agree totally that Apple shouldn't have eliminated firewire from the MacBook, but am not so sure of the reason. I fear the elimination of firewire is more deeply seated in Apple's belief in that they know better what the consumer needs than the consumer does and they design their computers accordingly. Either way it is extremely frustrating.
Perhaps the reason for the lack of firewire is that the nVidia chipset doesn't have it.
Perhaps we should be rankin on nVidia for not having it in their chipset?
Perhaps we should be rankin on nVidia for not having it in their chipset?
I don't recall the specifics of the chipset wrt FW, but I do know that FW works fine on my Unibody MBP.
I really doubt it. The running joke with all my Mac friends, during a big update to the Pro/Consumer laptop lines is "What will Steve muck up on the consumer model to upsell this time?". I never thought it would be FireWire.
I would have purchased previous version MacBook if it had dedicated graphics, and I would have purchased one this time had it had FireWire. Looks like I'll be going with a previous model MBP, or another hand-me-down from a friend like I did when the graphics cards were taken out of the old MacBooks.
Steve's lust for upselling is preventing me from purchasing new hardware. Plain and simple. Way to go Steve.
You've been there since 2003 and you don't know that FW is not part of any chipset? Never has been and will probably never be...
I'm not sure you're helping the cause.
It's not hard to guess. Since the cases are now the same and even graphics is comparable (yeah the MBP has hybrid graphics, but how often is that used really), there's a distinct lack of product differentiation. Apple would like to sell higher-priced MBPs since it gets higher profit margins from those. So Apple declares that the class of users who need Firewire are now "pros" who therefore need the "pro"-level MBP. That's about it.
What's "pro" about a notebook that doesn't work with "pro" audio gear?
Apple reintroduced the problematic Lucent/Agere Firewire chipset in the new and shiny late-2008 MacBook Pro, the chipset that proved to incompatible with most of the Firewire audio interfaces on the market back in October of 2007, when Apple began using the Lucent/Agere chipset in the late-2007 MacBooks and MacBook Pros. And to make matters worse, Apple refused to publicly acknowledge what chipsets are used in their MacBook lines. Then, apparently sometime in early-2008 Apple went back to using the TI chipset and all seemed well, until in late-2008, when Apple dropped the Firewire altogether on the new MacBook and left off the FW400 on the new MacBook Pro and went back to using the Lucent/Agere chipset in the new MacBook Pro!
WTF Apple?
I have a hypothesis about why Apple is doing what it's been doing recently. Maybe Apple thinks the economy is gonna crash hard in the very near future. So by selling much cheaper to manufacture computers with the same product names that have earned a great reputation in the past, Apple will still be able to sell a lot of these junkier laptops and rake in as much cash as they can while there's still money out there in the economy to get. Apple will take all that cash and put it into many diverse depression-resistant investments like gold. That way the company can hope to survive a major economic down turn.
Just a hypothesis.
Have many people on this thread posted their comments at http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html? If not, do so now. It may at least provide some direction to Apple (ask for FW800 in MacBooks).
There is another thread on this forum saying that you can't even install a TI Firewire ExpressCard and get it to work:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/615324/
If so it seems that you can't even do a workaround for the Lucent/Agere chipset in the new MBP.
I'm sure it seems incredibly boring to you, but some "Pros" do not make any creative content at all
Some actually mainly use computers for budgets, office, email, PowerPoint, VPN Connections to Oracle/SAP enterprise systems, skype calls all over the globe, tracking investments, assets, GIS databases, etc etc.
Those are the folks that help purchase the creative content that all those " Pros" produce
I'm sure it seems incredibly boring to you, but some "Pros" do not make any creative content at all
Some actually mainly use computers for budgets, office, email, PowerPoint, VPN Connections to Oracle/SAP enterprise systems, skype calls all over the globe, tracking investments, assets, GIS databases, etc etc.
Those are the folks that help by the creative content that all those " Pros" produce
Sounds like something the guy on the left would be into... (if Apple's marketing claims are to be believed, that is)
Will the last creative professional to leave the Apple fold please remember to turn off the lights...