Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[chrisPA]

Instead of writing him, why wouldn't you just spend the extra 1k on a MBP? He's not gonna care if you switch over to another company because he knows that everybody in your family is giving everybody else an iPod and he's rolling in the money. Writing him isn't going to get him to change it so just pony up the $1000 and stop drinking your Starbuck's for a week.

If you are indeed serious, perhaps its because many people don't want a larger laptop. For them, the price, while certainly a negative, is not the reason they want a small FW laptop. Some NEED the small laptop to do their work.

I say definitely write him. I did. Will it help? I don't know, but it certainly can't hurt. In my email, I referenced my history of Apple purchases (which they can look up themselves as everything is registered), and so my statement that I'm not buying for the first time in over a decade until they fix this issue is backed up. I'm generally on a 2-year upgrade history, and my mom or other family member gets my old machine. That has stopped - at least for now - and I'm far from the only one in this position.

Its sad that so many people 1) take whatever Apple gives them and attempt to elevate it to gospel, and 2) think you might as well just give up and not try to affect change, because "they'll never listen anyway".

 

[hogfaninga]

If you are indeed serious, perhaps its because many people don't want a larger laptop. For them, the price, while certainly a negative, is not the reason they want a small FW laptop. Some NEED the small laptop to do their work.

I say definitely write him. I did. Will it help? I don't know, but it certainly can't hurt. In my email, I referenced my history of Apple purchases (which they can look up themselves as everything is registered), and so my statement that I'm not buying for the first time in over a decade until they fix this issue is backed up. I'm generally on a 2-year upgrade history, and my mom or other family member gets my old machine. That has stopped - at least for now - and I'm far from the only one in this position.

Its sad that so many people 1) take whatever Apple gives them and attempt to elevate it to gospel, and 2) think you might as well just give up and not try to affect change, because "they'll never listen anyway".

A lot of it is new people who bought the new one and get upset when anyone is even slightly critical of it.

 

[BenRoethig]

Instead of writing him, why wouldn't you just spend the extra 1k on a MBP? He's not gonna care if you switch over to another company because he knows that everybody in your family is giving everybody else an iPod and he's rolling in the money. Writing him isn't going to get him to change it so just pony up the $1000 and stop drinking your Starbuck's for a week.

A) I don't drink coffee, B) MBPs are far too big and heavy, and C) $50 bills don't grown on the tree in the backyard instead of leaves. For those of us in reality $3000 on workstation to do desktop and another $2000 for a not so portable 15" is unaffordable. Apple 2008 isn't about making the best computers for the most demanding customers like Apple of a couple years ago was, its about holding the OS for basically ransom and trying to extort extra money out of its user base. That Apple doesn't deserve the loyalty it previously earned.

 

[stealthninja]

anyone remember when apple stopped putting floppy drives in their computers? I look at this the same way (even though it is a little different b/c floppy was inferior to CDs)

 

[danny_w]

anyone remember when apple stopped putting floppy drives in their computers? I look at this the same way (even though it is a little different b/c floppy was inferior to CDs)

Sorry, that comparison has already been brought up numerous times and shot down every time. There is simply NO comparison here. The user had an alternative to a floppy drive - an external USB drive . In this case there is NO alternative, period. Please read a little before responding to something you don't know anything about.

 

[editguy]

Instead of writing him, why wouldn't you just spend the extra 1k on a MBP? He's not gonna care if you switch over to another company because he knows that everybody in your family is giving everybody else an iPod and he's rolling in the money. Writing him isn't going to get him to change it so just pony up the $1000 and stop drinking your Starbuck's for a week.

Your post says "edited for misspelling". It should have been edited for ignorance. If you're going to post in a thread, please read the thread first so that you can give a half-way knowledgeable response.

 

[ran1]

Macbook and Sony mini DV camcorder

I am a convert from PC to MAC,. I bought Macbook 4 weeks ago and really impressed with the user interface and functioning.

I tried connecting sony mini DV camcorder (Sony DCR TRV60E) that I bought 4 years ago using USB. Macbook does not recognise it all. The camcorder has got both usb and firewire (iLINK). I thought of trying firewire but Macbook does not have firwire as I understand.

May I know how to connect the camcorder to Macbook and import the videos using iMovie please.

Thanks
ran1

 

[danny_w]

I am a convert from PC to MAC,. I bought Macbook 4 weeks ago and really impressed with the user interface and functioning.

I tried connecting sony mini DV camcorder (Sony DCR TRV60E) that I bought 4 years ago using USB. Macbook does not recognise it all. The camcorder has got both usb and firewire (iLINK). I thought of trying firewire but Macbook does not have firwire as I understand.

May I know how to connect the camcorder to Macbook and import the videos using iMovie please.

Thanks
ran1

That camcorder (and any miniDV camcorder for that matter) requires a firewire connection to a Mac to get any video at all. The USB connection is only good for still images. Just because the camera has a USB connection does not mean that it works for video, as many are finding out. Sorry, but you should have done some research before buying the new (unibody) Macbook. How long ago did you buy the MB? Perhaps you can take it back and exchange it for the white MB; I am sure that Apple has had quite a few returns from disgruntled customers that are in the same situation as you.

 

[lostless]

I am a convert from PC to MAC,. I bought Macbook 4 weeks ago and really impressed with the user interface and functioning.

I tried connecting sony mini DV camcorder (Sony DCR TRV60E) that I bought 4 years ago using USB. Macbook does not recognise it all. The camcorder has got both usb and firewire (iLINK). I thought of trying firewire but Macbook does not have firwire as I understand.

May I know how to connect the camcorder to Macbook and import the videos using iMovie please.

Thanks
ran1

Unfortunately this is the entire problem, and you have become a victim of apples desire to phase out something that still is commonly used. You can't hook your camcorder to the new macbook and edit with imovie. End of story. The usb only transfers photos off the memory card.

Side note. Another use for firewire is transferring footage off my cablebox (HD included) to my computer with no loss. The FCC requires all digital cable boxes have firewire for this functionality. Firewire going away was a bad idea.

 

[robanga]

Unfortunately this is the entire problem, and you have become a victim of apples desire to phase out something that still is commonly used. You can't hook your camcorder to the new macbook and edit with imovie. End of story. The usb only transfers photos off the memory card.

Side note. Another use for firewire is transferring footage off my cablebox (HD included) to my computer with no loss. The FCC requires all digital cable boxes have firewire for this functionality. Firewire going away was a bad idea.

How many new 2008/2009 model camcorders (consumer market now) are tape based and require FW? How many are flash or HD based and don't? Do the count. It will amaze you.

 

[danny_w]

How many new 2008/2009 model camcorders (consumer market now) are tape based and require FW? How many are flash or HD based and don't? Do the count. It will amaze you.

The fact that there are many USB camcorders NOW doesn't alter the fact that there are many camcorders in use that require firewire. USB camcorders have no bearing on the matter at hand. User ran1 did not just now buy the camcorder (bought some 4 years ago I believe), nor should he be expected to buy a new one to use his laptop.

 

[synth3tik]

Instead of writing him, why wouldn't you just spend the extra 1k on a MBP? He's not gonna care if you switch over to another company because he knows that everybody in your family is giving everybody else an iPod and he's rolling in the money. Writing him isn't going to get him to change it so just pony up the $1000 and stop drinking your Starbuck's for a week.

This argument has been beaten to death already. Besides for wanting a smaller laptop, the FW on the MBP did not go un changed. It is now a total inferior chip set. So this is like saying. Well if you don't want a car with a manual transmission, pony up an extra $1000 for a broken automatic. Also it is hard to justify $1000 just to get FW. This is not even a money issue for most people, as if they want the pro they can save up for it. Some yeah, but most not so.

Also to let you know. I would like a smaller laptop with FW, I have the extra $1000, but don't want to get another MBP. Also I do not drink at Starbucks, so plase, quit with the condisending additude.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

How many new 2008/2009 model camcorders (consumer market now) are tape based and require FW? How many are flash or HD based and don't? Do the count. It will amaze you.

Yet, firewire tape cameras are still higher quality than USB camcorders. Just because more people buy inferior cameras doesn't mean that the superior cameras should be phased out. A smart shopper looking for a good quality camera will look for a firewire tape based camera.

 

[Michael CM1]

Yet, firewire tape cameras are still higher quality than USB camcorders. Just because more people buy inferior cameras doesn't mean that the superior cameras should be phased out. A smart shopper looking for a good quality camera will look for a firewire tape based camera.

Inferior? How is recording to a hard drive inferior? That has little to do with the quality of the camera. I bought a HDD camera because I was sick of being limited to the very short length of the digital tapes. I think most of the HD cameras I saw had hard drives or flash, so I wouldn't say those are "lower quality."

I don't agree with killing FW on the MacBooks (or at least put in an ExpressCard slot), but don't go blaming the cameras.

 

[Santyman]

Your post says "edited for misspelling". It should have been edited for ignorance. If you're going to post in a thread, please read the thread first so that you can give a half-way knowledgeable response.

Oh, thank's. You've given me a new lease on life. Next time I'll sift through 96 pages of people saying the same thing just so I can post a topic and try to put in a new perspective. And I might even try this 'write the owner' thing too. Dear MacRumors, 500,000 trolls have just been alerted to this site. Congrats! Sincerely, someone who doesn't care.

Maybe next time, YOU can focus on discussing the topic instead of sidetracking people to insult someone.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Inferior? How is recording to a hard drive inferior? That has little to do with the quality of the camera. I bought a HDD camera because I was sick of being limited to the very short length of the digital tapes. I think most of the HD cameras I saw had hard drives or flash, so I wouldn't say those are "lower quality."

I don't agree with killing FW on the MacBooks (or at least put in an ExpressCard slot), but don't go blaming the cameras.

Because when you record to a hard drive or flash in order to store the data it has to compress it (of course. That's a no brainer) And how does most HD cameras being hard drive or flash mean that they're high quality? I can upscale any youtube video to 1080p, that's HD, is it good quality? Well... I'm sure you'd say yes, so I guess that's a bad example.

 

[albusseverus]

How many new 2008/2009 model camcorders (consumer market now) are tape based and require FW? How many are flash or HD based and don't? Do the count. It will amaze you.

What's more amazing, is how many are still buying FW camcorders. Only a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to a guy who hosts a photography podcast... and even HE had just bought a FW tape camcorder... because it was cheap.

But I suspect it was also because DV looks a lot better than the highly compressed "HD" on modern flash camcorders.

So the lesson here is... people buy FW camcorders because they don't have much money to spend. Now which MacBook are they likely to buy?? Not the Pro!

 

[robanga]

Yet, firewire tape cameras are still higher quality than USB camcorders. Just because more people buy inferior cameras doesn't mean that the superior cameras should be phased out. A smart shopper looking for a good quality camera will look for a firewire tape based camera.

So assuming that we have seen the best engineering on flash cameras we will ever see and magnetic tape is the greatest and highest representation of man's audio/visual engineering we will ever see....

How does this change the fact that it is going away?

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

So assuming that we have seen the best engineering on flash cameras we will ever see and magnetic tape is the greatest and highest representation of man's audio/visual engineering we will ever see....

How does this change the fact that it is going away?

Does that matter? It might be going away and one day be gone, but it's still here and it's still widely used and it's still superior. Why are you so set on having an inferior interface?

 

[AidenShaw]

Why are you so set on having an inferior interface?

He's not.

He's just a fanboi defending the Lord God Jobs' latest edict. It doesn't have to make sense, but if Jobs did something then it must be right.

 

[robanga]

Does that matter? It might be going away and one day be gone, but it's still here and it's still widely used and it's still superior. Why are you so set on having an inferior interface?

I'm not set on anything, I just do not ignore the obvious. FW is awesome but it is pretty obvious that USB is at least the neat future for the camera interface.

He's not.

He's just a fanboi defending the Lord God Jobs' latest edict. It doesn't have to make sense, but if Jobs did something then it must be right.

Ah the old fanboi write off. How original of you. Actually I have no real allegiance either way, because I have both macs with fw and macs without. But to pretend that tape is the past, present and future of all cameras is a little bit silly, so I am not going to let that one stand.

 

[albusseverus]

Ah the old fanboi write off. How original of you. Actually I have no real allegiance either way, because I have both macs with fw and macs without. But to pretend that tape is the past, present and future of all cameras is a little bit silly, so I am not going to let that one stand.

What's ludicrous is to imply that the firewire argument is only about video cameras. Don't get caught up in Jobs' game of finding ANY excuse that firewire might not be needed for one particular technology FOREVER and concentrating on that.

The issues are far wider - fast storage, audio & video interfaces, in fact anything requiring bulk, reliable data.

It's a red herring. But it's clear flash video and USB are for a very narrow market - the ultra portable video camera, which anyone wanting to preserve their memories, seems to be rejecting, even though it's cheap and widely available.

 

[Santyman]

While I have to agree with you, albuss, I will say this: If we were to unfocus from just the cameras and focus on everything else needing a FW port, and then added all these people cross-quoting and all talking about the different things being connected with FW, then we would not be in a good place. I think maybe we should let the camera well dry first, then start talking about stuff like EHDs, etc.

 

[myca]

Well my flatmates eMac is on it's last legs and she's looking for a laptop to replace it, and with this firewire debacle I nearly suggested a PC, but I just can't, because I'd be her IT flatmate, which I can handle on the mac side 'cause I'm fine at fixing problems with macs, whereas when windows goes wrong it just infuriates me.

But with her being a hobbyist musician her audio interface and external drives are all firewire, so it looks like it's gonna have to be a plastic macbook. The annoying thing is that in a year since I bought my current macbook for the same price she'll get a 5% processor increase and a superdrive, which is a bit of a rip-off really. As for the memory and HD, they'll go to fit better alternatives in there.

But I was doing some price checks and (in the UK at least) all major retailers I've found can offer the Plastic macbook specs at roughly £100 to £150 cheaper, but the specs I've seen for the sub £500 models all seem to be lacking in the processor and HD and Ram department, granted they appear to have better connectivity (sometimes not needed for all). So I think some of my anger has died down, but I still believe that the new Unibody MB is just a worthless brick for many users, i.e. anything more than email and youtube, and if all you were doing was email and youtube what's the point in spending that much when a PC at half the cost will do it just as well.

 

[robanga]

What's ludicrous is to imply that the firewire argument is only about video cameras. Don't get caught up in Jobs' game of finding ANY excuse that firewire might not be needed for one particular technology FOREVER and concentrating on that.

The issues are far wider - fast storage, audio & video interfaces, in fact anything requiring bulk, reliable data.

It's a red herring. But it's clear flash video and USB are for a very narrow market - the ultra portable video camera, which anyone wanting to preserve their memories, seems to be rejecting, even though it's cheap and widely available.

i never said it was all about cameras. But as the other poster indicated the argument keeps taking the camera portion of this into the realm of the silly....

...Wow a camera purchased only 4 YEARS ago can no longer work with one of the Mac portable lines. Call in the loan, its time to shut the doors!

other threads have things along the lines of..... " most and only the REAL cameras " use DV tape, so its a HUGE mis-step. Because tape is so wonderfully uncompressed and the quality is SO bad from cameras that are not tape. Some even go into the denial side of things and try to tell you tape is not on its way out when clearly it is. A simple trip over to Sony or Canon will confirm that.

Instead might I suggest you drive your campaign on the following;

1. Its too soon to leave off FW for cameras, because of a legacy installed base of tape based cameras and because they actually still sell a few types of MiniDV cameras out there. This is a fairly weak argument IMHO but at least it is not silly.

2. Target disk mode: I know its important to some of you, ( i have never used it ) so that is a real use of FW that you are not likely to get back any time soon.

3. Audio recording. Also not my area; I use a USB Blue Snowball to record Podcasts that is about it. Still apparently there is a lot of very well loved equipment out there that uses FW.

Start with those issues instead of statements in denial about the camera industry.