Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[AidenShaw]

Yeah, seriously...Vista on a 1.2 GHz? Have fun with that!

Perhaps not Vista, but Windows 7 on a 1.2 GHz Core 2 Duo would be fine. It's fine on my Atom netbook (single core with hyperthreading)....

And you wouldn't have to worry about the "core shutdown" problem that some other thin laptops have.

 

[Tosser]

I
It's the principle of the thing. We're beginning to get what we have been asking for. The next MacBooks WILL have FireWire 800 on them, but the TI chipset is asking too much! It'll be Lucent or Agere, sorry.

Ah, yes, asking for a properly working FW chipset is asking too much ... The thing is, you're right, hence the reason I'm leaving the platform.
Btw. When we talk of te Lucent/Agere FW chipset, it's the same, even though Lucent spun off Agere-shares in 2002. It's just a single chipset, not two different ones from Agere and Lucent respectively.

I didn't say that, did I? I have a FireWire 800 external hard drive and a FireWire camcorder. IMHO although not many MacBook users will ever use the port, they should have left it in at least for Target Disk Mode if nothing else. It was a huge mistake to drop it, but for the love of Christ people!!! The rest of the world has already ordered the 17" MacBook Pro which has both 1394 AND a screen that's actually big enough for you to work on without going blind!

What's your point? That just because two billion flies eat crap I should too?

And enough with this BS about "EEEHHH!! MACK BOOK PROOOOOOO TOO BIIIIIIGGG TA CARRY WIT ME WHENEVAH I GO SHOOOOT ON LOKAATIOONN!" I've been to many such semi-pro video shoots and ALL THEY USE ARE 17" MACBOOK PROS!!! MAYBE you get a white MacBook in there OCCASIONALLY, but the MacBook Pro is by far the most common.

Again with the McDonald's-argument, huh?
I hate to break it to, but we don't all want to carry a 17" "laptop". All else equal, I prefer a maximum of 15" laptop, and even that is big. But then again, I don't use trolleys to carry my equipment as I do "real" field work, not "on location" work for movies et al.

And guess what?! The "studio guys" (for lack of a better term) carry the OH SO HEAVY AND BULKY MacBook Pro in their backpacks ALONG WITH other s**t.

"Studio guys" and "backpacks"? You don't see any discrepancy there, do you?
Btw, ever thought about that many of those people you talk about rely on a -working- FW port? And that for quite a few of us, that means that while we're using our MBPs at the moment, we don't have much choice when our lappie dies: We will have to either purchase used (and be stuck in 2007 tech wise) or move on to another platform?
Anyway, your entire argument seems to be "I have anecdotal evidence that people in a certain niche use 17" MBPs therefore 17" MBPs are the thing to use - also in the future and no matter what Apple changes about them".

I hope you enjoy it. Sincerely I do.

I will. I can't wait to have a better keyboard and to have the certainty that I'm not in a technological dead-end, having to buy another (used) MBP "just in case the first one dies" – well, or maintain a Windows lappie with all the associated software and workflows just in case. Instead, I have chosen what will make me work faster, and allowing me to purchase another one without problems should any hardware-problems arise or Apple decides that the TI chipset will never come back (meaning I would have to stay with a late-2007 laptop forever in a size I really don't like, with a build quality I really don't like, and with constant workarounds (which, funnily, I really don't like either) just so I can stay on the platform. IF I stayed, that would be the choice of a fanboy, utterly disregarding what would be the best choice in all regards.

 

[Benguitar]

What. About. Us. Musicians?

Who use FireWire regularly to control our audio interfaces? M-Audio, Apogee, Etc?

I contacted Apogee about this "lack of FW" and they said that you can use a FireWire 800/400 with their products on the new MacBook Pros, but the new standard MacBooks are still screwed.

I wish Apple would let people truly customize their computers when they order them.

"Select Body Type-

With or Without FireWire?"

...I could care less about video cameras...

 

[Sehnsucht]

Ah, yes, asking for a properly working FW chipset is asking too much ... The thing is, you're right, hence the reason I'm leaving the platform. Btw. When we talk of the Lucent/Agere FW chipset, it's the same, even though Lucent spun off Agere-shares in 2002. It's just a single chipset, not two different ones from Agere and Lucent respectively.

Yeah, okay. Whatever.

What's your point? That just because two billion flies eat crap I should too?

WTF?!

Again with the McDonald's-argument, huh?
I hate to break it to, but we don't all want to carry a 17" "laptop". All else equal, I prefer a maximum of 15" laptop, and even that is big. But then again, I don't use trolleys to carry my equipment as I do "real" field work, not "on location" work for movies et al.

Again, WTF?! Exactly what is the "McDonald's argument", and how did it acquire such a name?

"Studio guys" and "backpacks"? You don't see any discrepancy there, do you? Btw, ever thought about that many of those people you talk about rely on a -working- FW port? And that for quite a few of us, that means that while we're using our MBPs at the moment, we don't have much choice when our lappie dies: We will have to either purchase used (and be stuck in 2007 tech wise) or move on to another platform? Anyway, your entire argument seems to be "I have anecdotal evidence that people in a certain niche use 17" MBPs therefore 17" MBPs are the thing to use - also in the future and no matter what Apple changes about them".

I will. I can't wait to have a better keyboard and to have the certainty that I'm not in a technological dead-end, having to buy another (used) MBP "just in case the first one dies" – well, or maintain a Windows lappie with all the associated software and workflows just in case. Instead, I have chosen what will make me work faster, and allowing me to purchase another one without problems should any hardware-problems arise or Apple decides that the TI chipset will never come back (meaning I would have to stay with a late-2007 laptop forever in a size I really don't like, with a build quality I really don't like, and with constant workarounds (which, funnily, I really don't like either) just so I can stay on the platform. IF I stayed, that would be the choice of a fanboy, utterly disregarding what would be the best choice in all regards.

So now, you'll have working FireWire, but with an unusable OS. Have fun with that. In the post-Jobs era, the TI chipset will return. It will. And you'll be back after about a year.

"But..."

You'll be back.

"But..."

You'll. Be. Back.

Take it from someone who has used Windoze since 3.1. You'll come back screaming.

 

[Tosser]

Yeah, okay. Whatever.

My point by mentioning it is a single chipset from a single vendor?
You talk about something, preach about something you have no knowledge about.

WTF?!

It shouldn't confuse you. It was a very easy way of saying your argument was an appeal to popularity. Which, as most know, is a logical fallacy.

Again, WTF?! Exactly what is the "McDonald's argument", and how did it acquire such a name?

Again, it's another way of saying your argument is a logical fallacy – that your argument is an appeal to popularity. Clicky

So now, you'll have working FireWire, but with an unusable OS. Have fun with that. In the post-Jobs era, the TI chipset will return. It will. And you'll be back after about a year.

Two things:

1) I can't afford to have my workflows decided entirely by the whims of a corporation. It's too much work with software licenses and wasted effort. So even if th TI chipset is reintroduced I won't simply switch back. The computer itself is to me only part of the equation.

2) As I said, staying with the platform, or in this case, going back to the platform within a year would be the choice of a fanboy. I am no fanboy with regards to anything here in life. And to make it more clear than I did in the last post: There are more reasons for my switch than whether or not there is a TI chipset in the computer.

"But..."

You'll be back.

"But..."

You'll. Be. Back.

Take it from someone who has used Windoze since 3.1. You'll come back screaming.

As I have said several times before: I am no fanboy, and although I will miss certain things, I won't miss all the workarounds needed, all the bugs, the OS itself not working properly* with a TI-chipset, slow USB transfer speeds compared to windows (for some reason), compatibility issues, and so on.

No, I won't be coming back within a year, as I have done my research and have spent a very long time migrating my workflows. I choose my OS and computers as tools, because that's what they are. And I will use the best tool for the job. The thing is, a computer is but a link in the production chain, and I will never allow a preference for an OS to dictate how I work and make me spend more time and effort than necessary.

*Even if you buy an Expresscard with a TI-chipset equipped Firewire-port, it wont work properly under OS X. The moment you boot into windows on your MBP it will work as it's supposed to. Weird? Yes. Inexcusable? Yes.

 

[w0by]

Mac mini

I think it's hilarious that there is Firewire in the Mac Mini but not in the Macbook. Lame. I don't even use Firewire and I can tell you that Apple's decisions are pretty messed up.

 

[vvebsta]

Two things:

1) I can't afford to have my workflows decided entirely by the whims of a corporation. It's too much work with software licenses and wasted effort. So even if th TI chipset is reintroduced I won't simply switch back. The computer itself is to me only part of the equation.

2) As I said, staying with the platform, or in this case, going back to the platform within a year would be the choice of a fanboy. I am no fanboy with regards to anything here in life. And to make it more clear than I did in the last post: There are more reasons for my switch than whether or not there is a TI chipset in the computer.


As I have said several times before: I am no fanboy, and although I will miss certain things, I won't miss all the workarounds needed, all the bugs, the OS itself not working properly* with a TI-chipset, slow USB transfer speeds compared to windows (for some reason), compatibility issues, and so on.

No, I won't be coming back within a year, as I have done my research and have spent a very long time migrating my workflows. I choose my OS and computers as tools, because that's what they are. And I will use the best tool for the job. The thing is, a computer is but a link in the production chain, and I will never allow a preference for an OS to dictate how I work and make me spend more time and effort than necessary.

*Even if you buy an Expresscard with a TI-chipset equipped Firewire-port, it wont work properly under OS X. The moment you boot into windows on your MBP it will work as it's supposed to. Weird? Yes. Inexcusable? Yes.

This is good... This is just the type of thing Apple needs to hear. When customers have to give up on the platform and the hardware because of the "whims" of the corporation, something needs to change. That's an excellent example. Cheers. There should be more stories like you.

 

[depulse]

If the lack of firewire is caused by the lack of space, Apple could have adopted a different approach.

Either drop the LAN connection and replace it with firewire, how many are now-a-days using a wired LAN together with their laptop instead of using WiFi?

Or

Provide a port that would allow a "docking station"/"port replicator" to be connected that would allow LAN, firewire, extra USB ports and power to be connected in one single port. This way printers, wired LAN, firewire interfaces and other periphials could be permanently connected to the docking station and when back home one single connector would needed. As it is today to be constantly plugging and unplugging the USB cables is not the most efficient way of doing it, it must be creating uneccessary wear and tear on the plugs also.

 

[chakosticks]

Bottom line is Apple lost sales with this decision. Probably not the best business move. Steve Jobs allegedly stating that DV cams are all going USB doesn't magically make my Firewire Digi 002 work with a USB port, nor my 2 external Firewire hard drives, nor my external Firewire DVD burner.

 

[Sehnsucht]

My point by mentioning it is a single chipset from a single vendor? You talk about something, preach about something you have no knowledge about.

Excuse me, I am knowledgeable enough, I just happen not to care.

It shouldn't confuse you. It was a very easy way of saying your argument was an appeal to popularity. Which, as most know, is a logical fallacy.

Again, it's another way of saying your argument is a logical fallacy – that your argument is an appeal to popularity. Clicky

Two things:

1) I can't afford to have my workflows decided entirely by the whims of a corporation. It's too much work with software licenses and wasted effort. So even if the TI chipset is reintroduced I won't simply switch back. The computer itself is to me only part of the equation.

2) As I said, staying with the platform, or in this case, going back to the platform within a year would be the choice of a fanboy. I am no fanboy with regards to anything here in life. And to make it more clear than I did in the last post: There are more reasons for my switch than whether or not there is a TI chipset in the computer.

No it wouldn't. Just because you happen to be having all these alledged issues doesn't mean every other user is as well. I use Macs because they work, with no bulls**t. Yeah, I may not use mine for pro audio, but it doesn't make me a fanboy to remain devoted to OS X. As I mentioned in the previous post, I have extensive experience using all the Windoze versions starting with 3.1. (It's always fun telling my Windoze-fanboy friends about 3.1; you know, the one that required a copy of MS-DOS to run. You booted into 3.1 by typing "win" into an MS-DOS command line on startup. They just look at me funny. ) And all the way to Vista. Every single version was a ridiculously annoying, ultra-high-maintenance clusterf**k of missing drivers, BSODs, malware and, in earlier versions, "DLL Hell." Windoze fanboys LOVE to blather on about how they can upgrade their graphics, RAM, hard-drives, etc. Yeah, you can drop in a new graphics card, but can you actually get it to work?

Oh, that's right. PC problems are solely the fault of the user. My computer just crashed on me, that must make me computer illiterate.

As I have said several times before: I am no fanboy, and although I will miss certain things, I won't miss all the workarounds needed, all the bugs, the OS itself not working properly* with a TI-chipset, slow USB transfer speeds compared to windows (for some reason), compatibility issues, and so on.

Congratu-freaking-lations. By God, I'm not a fanboy either!

By the way, USB is ridiculously slow across the board. That's why I use FireWire (which by the way, is hard to find on PC laptops...most of the time you get ONE teeny little four-pin 1394 port that doesn't supply voltage needed to...oh, power an external hard drive.) Oh yes, and one more thing...I'm not sure what 1394 chipsets most PC laptops use, but as build quality on that side of the fence tends to be the lowest of the low, I would then assume that most OEMs use the cheapest they can get. Cheap Lucent/Agere chipsets on PC laptops? I can definitely see that with the naked eye.

No, I won't be coming back within a year, as I have done my research and have spent a very long time migrating my workflows. I choose my OS and computers as tools, because that's what they are. And I will use the best tool for the job. The thing is, a computer is but a link in the production chain, and I will never allow a preference for an OS to dictate how I work and make me spend more time and effort than necessary.

While you do have a point about the software licenses and such, you're missing my point. "I will never allow a preference for an OS to dictate how I work"...with OS X, I work on my work, with Windoze, I work on Windoze. Methinks you are missing the point. To quote the Onion video from a couple months ago, "I use my computer for actual work, and not just dicking around." That's why I roll with OS X.

*Even if you buy an Expresscard with a TI-chipset equipped Firewire-port, it wont work properly under OS X. The moment you boot into windows on your MBP it will work as it's supposed to. Weird? Yes. Inexcusable? Yes.

It's one of life's many quirks.

Finally, I've noticed from reading many posts on this forum that quite a few folks who have been using Macs for 20+ years are downright spoiled. They've become so used to everything working smoothly that the second an issue comes up, they feel the need to scream about it. I have just recently come from the PC world and you guys really need to realize exactly what you could be having to deal with. You think a misaligned trackpad or no FireWire is bad?

 

[Tosser]

Bottom line is Apple lost sales with this decision. Probably not the best business move. Steve Jobs allegedly stating that DV cams are all going USB doesn't magically make my Firewire Digi 002 work with a USB port, nor my 2 external Firewire hard drives, nor my external Firewire DVD burner.

Nor my recorder – or any firewire audio interface for that matter one might want to plug into when out and about.
I was shocked when I discovered Expresscard adaptors with TI-chipset didn't work under OS X but worked if booting into windows. That (to me) suggests that not only are they downplaying the need for FW, they seem to actively cripple it.

 

[danny_w]

Nor my recorder – or any firewire audio interface for that matter one might want to plug into when out and about.
I was shocked when I discovered Expresscard adaptors with TI-chipset didn't work under OS X but worked if booting into windows. That (to me) suggests that not only are they downplaying the need for FW, they seem to actively cripple it.

Exactly. The active crippling is in some ways much worse than the removal of FW or using an inferior (i.e. unusable) chipset.

 

[Tosser]

Excuse me, I am knowledgeable enough, I just happen not to care.

Obviously, you know little about firewire, as evidenced by your replies. That you don't care about it is a given.

No it wouldn't. Just because you happen to be having all these alledged issues doesn't mean every other user is as well.

Of course not. On the other hand, just because most of the iPod Crowd don't have issues, doesn't mean that many people can't have issues. Once again you're trying out the McDonald's argument for size. It's still a logical fallacy.

I use Macs because they work, with no bulls**t.

Yes, they work for you. That doesn't mean noone else can have issues, or that FW with the agere chipset or even TI-equipped expresscards work. However, the lack of functionality means my work is inhibited.

Yeah, I may not use mine for pro audio, but it doesn't make me a fanboy to remain devoted to OS X.

Of course it doesn't. However, it makes you a fanboy to use arguments to the effect of "you'll be back, because everyone else likes Macs and can't do without them", and "I like OS X, so if you cannot live with non-functionality, you're making the wrong choice".

As I mentioned in the previous post, I have extensive experience using all the Windoze versions starting with 3.1. (It's always fun telling my Windoze-fanboy friends about 3.1; you know, the one that required a copy of MS-DOS to run.

Hmm, "Windoze"? Really? And you really don't think you quack like a duck?
Also, I really don't see your point. I'm not buying a laptop running Windows 3.1.

You booted into 3.1 by typing "win" into an MS-DOS command line on startup. They just look at me funny. ) And all the way to Vista.

You type "win" into an MS-DOS command line to start up Vista!? That's certainly news to me.

Every single version was a ridiculously annoying, ultra-high-maintenance clusterf**k of missing drivers, BSODs, malware and, in earlier versions, "DLL Hell." Windoze fanboys LOVE to blather on about how they can upgrade their graphics, RAM, hard-drives, etc. Yeah, you can drop in a new graphics card, but can you actually get it to work?

Funny. As most fanboys you seem to utterly miss the point here:
THE POINT IS: Because of the whims of Apple and the introduced non-functionality of OS X I am forced to switch, unless I want to stay with 2007-technology and hope and pray this MBP will never die. And even then there are bugs and whatnot in the OS that makes it a pain the butt to work with audio.
The thing is: In my world, OS X and newer macs simply doesn't cut it, because it simply doesn't work.

Oh, that's right. PC problems are solely the fault of the user. My computer just crashed on me, that must make me computer illiterate.

Do you even read what I write, or are you simply blinded by your own shining fanboy-dom?
The inbuilt FW-chip doesn't work as such things should.
If using an adaptor it doesn't work.
If using THE SAME adaptor, but booting into WINDOWS, IT WORKS!

So, what were you saying? That OS X and Macs "just work"? Are you freaking nuts? If it "just worked" I wouldn't have to boot into windows, I wouldn't have to rebuy all my licenses and migrate my workflows, nor would I have to constantly spend time working around incompatibilities of all sorts.

Congratu-freaking-lations. By God, I'm not a fanboy either!

You certainly comes across as one – what with all the utter disregard for facts.

By the way, USB is ridiculously slow across the board.

Of course it is. That doesn't explain why it's even slower under OS X, now, does it?

That's why I use FireWire (which by the way, is hard to find on PC laptops...most of the time you get ONE teeny little four-pin 1394 port that doesn't supply voltage needed to...oh, power an external hard drive.)

Ah, yes. Rolleyes, indeed. First of all, the 4-pin may be the most used on PC's, but at least IT WORKS.
Secondly, no matter how many "external hard drives" you use and how happy you are with them, that doesn't make recent MacBooks grow a firewire port, nor does it make the Lucent/Agere chipset work properly with audio, NOR does it make OS X work properly with expresscards adaptors.

Oh yes, and one more thing...I'm not sure what 1394 chipsets most PC laptops use, but as build quality on that side of the fence tends to be the lowest of the low, I would then assume that most OEMs use the cheapest they can get. Cheap Lucent/Agere chipsets on PC laptops? I can definitely see that with the naked eye.

What are you winking at? Don't you realise that you're arguing that because many vendors use cheap parts as does Apple, I should limit myself even more and chose the one OS with the most problems in this regards and go buy hardware from the one vendor where things doesn't even work with adaptors unless I boot into a competitor's OS.
Of course you missed that …

While you do have a point about the software licenses and such, you're missing my point. "I will never allow a preference for an OS to dictate how I work"...with OS X, I work on my work, with Windoze, I work on Windoze. Methinks you are missing the point. To quote the Onion video from a couple months ago, "I use my computer for actual work, and not just dicking around." That's why I roll with OS X.

Instead of quoting someone who said something you consider intelligent, perhaps you should read what I, amongst many others in this thread, write:
That we can't use the offerings from Apple as it is, and that even with workarounds we can't do WORK on them.
Now, unless you suggest I buy a MBP and use windows on it constantly, there is no way around the problems.

It's one of life's many quirks.

I don't equate computers to life.
Not being able to do my work because of the whims of a corporation isn't "a quirk" either. I have two choices: Stay on the platform and be screwed, OR move on and get work done. That's not a quirk. That's reality.

Finally, I've noticed from reading many posts on this forum that quite a few folks who have been using Macs for 20+ years are downright spoiled. They've become so used to everything working smoothly that the second an issue comes up, they feel the need to scream about it.

On the other hand, I have read many posts on this forum from recent switchers who think they have found the Holy Grail and no matter what problems there might be, they all go "suck it up". Even if that entails not being able to one's job.

I have just recently come from the PC world and you guys really need to realize exactly what you could be having to deal with. You think a misaligned trackpad or no FireWire is bad?

Hmm, besides rereadin just above, perhaps you should realise that I, amongst others, have no choice in the matter as I have to make a living. And a working computer with certain features is a part of that – just like a screen is.

I don't use an audio recorder without a socket for my headphones or without phantom power either.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Obviously, you know little about firewire, as evidenced by your replies. That you don't care about it is a given.

How much more do you want to know? God...

Of course not. On the other hand, just because most of the iPod Crowd don't have issues, doesn't mean that many people can't have issues. Once again you're trying out the McDonald's argument for size. It's still a logical fallacy.

Why the hell do you continue to misquote me? Did I say or imply, "I'm fine, so you can't be having problems"!? No, I didn't!

Yes, they work for you. That doesn't mean noone else can have issues, or that FW with the agere chipset or even TI-equipped expresscards work. However, the lack of functionality means my work is inhibited.

Of course it doesn't. However, it makes you a fanboy to use arguments to the effect of "you'll be back, because everyone else likes Macs and can't do without them", and "I like OS X, so if you cannot live with non-functionality, you're making the wrong choice".

It does function. For me. If it didn't, I wouldn't use it.

Hmm, "Windoze"? Really? And you really don't think you quack like a duck?
Also, I really don't see your point. I'm not buying a laptop running Windows 3.1.

You type "win" into an MS-DOS command line to start up Vista!? That's certainly news to me.

Christ, this guy is dense. Let's review:

As I mentioned in the previous post, I have extensive experience using all the Windoze versions starting with 3.1. (It's always fun telling my Windoze-fanboy friends about 3.1; you know, the one that required a copy of MS-DOS to run. You booted into 3.1 by typing "win" into an MS-DOS command line on startup. They just look at me funny. ) And all the way to Vista.

OK, I fragmented that sentence. What I was intending to say is, "I used all the Windoze versions starting with 3.1 and all the way up to Vista." And the command line startup wasn't a "flaw" that I was pointing out, I was just throwing it out there for those who might not remember. And I'm pretty sure there are no new laptops still shipping with 3.1, so if you can find one, that'd be cool.

Funny. As most fanboys you seem to utterly miss the point here:
THE POINT IS: Because of the whims of Apple and the introduced non-functionality of OS X I am forced to switch, unless I want to stay with 2007-technology and hope and pray this MBP will never die. And even then there are bugs and whatnot in the OS that makes it a pain the butt to work with audio. The thing is: In my world, OS X and newer macs simply doesn't cut it, because it simply doesn't work.

Do you even read what I write, or are you simply blinded by your own shining fanboy-dom?
The inbuilt FW-chip doesn't work as such things should.
If using an adaptor it doesn't work.
If using THE SAME adaptor, but booting into WINDOWS, IT WORKS!

I am not a fanboy, therefore I will not respond when addressed as one.

So, what were you saying? That OS X and Macs "just work"? Are you freaking nuts? If it "just worked" I wouldn't have to boot into windows, I wouldn't have to rebuy all my licenses and migrate my workflows, nor would I have to constantly spend time working around incompatibilities of all sorts.

No, Steve Jobs says that. "Just work" is a line that Windows fanboys like to throw out there whenever it comes to light that Macs aren't flawless.

Incompatibilites?! Do you mean to tell me that software written for one operating system (i.e. Windows) DOESN'T RUN NATIVELY ON A DIFFERENT OS (OS X)?! ARE YOU SH*TTING ME?! Whoever heard of such a thing?!

You certainly comes across as one – what with all the utter disregard for facts.

Of course it is. That doesn't explain why it's even slower under OS X, now, does it?

Based on what? Which would you rather have, EXTREMELY SLOW or AGONIZINGLY SLOW? I've already picked "neither one."

Ah, yes. Rolleyes, indeed. First of all, the 4-pin may be the most used on PC's, but at least IT WORKS.
Secondly, no matter how many "external hard drives" you use and how happy you are with them, that doesn't make recent MacBooks grow a firewire port, nor does it make the Lucent/Agere chipset work properly with audio, NOR does it make OS X work properly with expresscards adaptors.

Now we're getting into metaphysics here. And here I was thinking that if I prayed to Steve Jobs often enough, the existing MacBooks would be magically bestown with a FireWire port. It doesn't really bother me, however. I don't want a MacBook and never wanted a MacBook anyway. Why? The screen is too goddamn small looks really crappy and has a narrow viewing angle. And GUESS WHAT?! This raging fanboy has been recommending the WHITE MACBOOKS to people he knows who are considering Macs. WHY? FIREWIRE!!!! If I were really a fanboy, I would have upsold them on the unibody MB because STEVE JOBS WANTS US TO USE USB.

And by the way, stop f**king calling me a fanboy. Untrue, and in your case more than a little hypocritical. I guess if you want to look at it that way, we're all fanboys in some regard. So while I'm bogged down with my Mac that doesn't work and supposedly has all these compatibility issues, you're enjoying your PC that works flawlessly. OK whatever sir. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Tosser]

How much more do you want to know? God...

Having a hard time coming to terms with your lack of knowledge?

Why the hell do you continue to misquote me? Did I say or imply, "I'm fine, so you can't be having problems"!? No, I didn't!

Yes you did. Saying that it works for the majority, that it works for you, and then pretend the problem can't exist for that very reason, that IS using the McD-argument, like it or not.
Just because you have no idea that you're using logical fallacies does not mean you're misquoted.

It does function. For me. If it didn't, I wouldn't use it.

Did I ever say it didn't work with external HARD DRIVES?
No, we're talking AUDIO here, not your usage, not your external hard drives.

Christ, this guy is dense. Let's review:

Yes, let's see who's the dense one.

OK, I fragmented that sentence. What I was intending to say is, "I used all the Windoze versions starting with 3.1 and all the way up to Vista." And the command line startup wasn't a "flaw" that I was pointing out, I was just throwing it out there for those who might not remember.

Again, I really don't care that you dislike the "innards" or not. This is about whether "stuff" works or not. This is NOT about whether you like Unix and dislike MS-DOS.
Let me repeat: A NON-FUNCTIONAL COMPUTER FOR WORK IS NOT FUNCTIONING FOR WORK.
Yes, I know, it's a really hard concept to grasp for some ...

And I'm pretty sure there are no new laptops still shipping with 3.1, so if you can find one, that'd be cool.

Sigh! Who's the dense one?

I am not a fanboy, therefore I will not respond when addressed as one.

Sweet way of completely ignoring facts and ignoring being asked to consider the facts.
Do you have any idea why this thread is over 3000 posts long?

No, Steve Jobs says that. "Just work" is a line that Windows fanboys like to throw out there whenever it comes to light that Macs aren't flawless.

You're making a strawman. And a lie, to boot.
Did you or did you not state the following (my emphasis):

[...]all these alledged issues[...] doesn't mean every other user is as well. I use Macs because they work, with no bulls**t.

You see, that's your entire premises, while you remain - in your own word "devoted" to Macs. That there can be nothing wrong with OSX and Macs because you personally don't have any problems.

Incompatibilites?! Do you mean to tell me that software written for one operating system (i.e. Windows) DOESN'T RUN NATIVELY ON A DIFFERENT OS (OS X)?! ARE YOU SH*TTING ME?! Whoever heard of such a thing?!

Again, who's being dense here?
I'm NOT talking about software. I am talking about using a bloody Expresscard-FW adaptor.
1) Do you know what an expresscard is?
2) Do you know you can buy a FW "plug" that happens to have an Expresscard interface?
3) Even with the "good" Firewire chipset, the CARD ITSELF does NOT work properly under OS X. You have to boot into Windows on your MacBook Pro to make the card – the hardware- work with an audio interface without drop-outs, and at times even to make it recognise that there's something connected to the damn card.

Again, how about you reconciled yourself with the fact, that even after so many posts, you haven't being able to even fathom the slightest, most basic facts?

Again, instead of rolling your eyes, perhaps the time would be right to spend some effort getting the facts straight. But hey, you proved my point.

Based on what? Which would you rather have, EXTREMELY SLOW or AGONIZINGLY SLOW? I've already picked "neither one."

As I have mentioned numerous times, this isn't even an option right now. Unless I want to stay with 2007-tech. Try rereading my posts and many others in this thread, and with time, perhaps you will see why. Up till now, though, you still know nothing, but think that because your external harddrives work with fw, there cannot be any problems.

But what would I rather have: Slow or annoyingly slow USB? I'll take the faster of the two, thank you. Just like I will take working firewire over a non-functional fw-port, an OS that works with FW-Expresscard adaptors over an OS that doesn't work with FW-Expresscard adaptors. See a tendency here?

Now we're getting into metaphysics here. And here I was thinking that if I prayed to Steve Jobs often enough, the existing MacBooks would be magically bestown with a FireWire port. It doesn't really bother me, however. I don't want a MacBook and never wanted a MacBook anyway. Why? The screen is too goddamn small looks really crappy and has a narrow viewing angle. And GUESS WHAT?! This raging fanboy has been recommending the WHITE MACBOOKS to people he knows who are considering Macs. WHY? FIREWIRE!!!! If I were really a fanboy, I would have upsold them on the unibody MB because STEVE JOBS WANTS US TO USE USB.

Still missing the point, I see. I can't afford to stay in 2007, nor can I afford to suddenly be completely without a working FW-port. Does anyone know whether FW (with TI-chipset) will stay in the Whitebook?
No, we don't. And frankly, I can't afford to have most of my income depend on not only 2007-tech, but a single model, from a single vendor, crossing my fingers they won't cripple the os further, or downgrade the hardware any further.

And by the way, stop f**king calling me a fanboy. Untrue, and in your case more than a little hypocritical. I guess if you want to look at it that way, we're all fanboys in some regard.

So because I rely on facts and have certain, specific needs in my work and review my options without letting my preference for an OS and "image" play a part in my choice, I'm a "fanboy" in your mind? That's good to know.

So while I'm bogged down with my Mac that doesn't work and supposedly has all these compatibility issues,

Hmm, I never said that. It propably works fine for your needs (connecting an external hard drive ...), but since you don't work with audio and have no clue about firewire (other than it's faster for connecting an external hard drive ...), how would you know? Just because your hard drives connect to your mac, doesn't mean that everything connected via firewire works.

you're enjoying your PC that works flawlessly.

Never said that. But Firewire works. And USB is faster for some reason, plus I don't have the plethora of compatibility issues forcing me to constantly think of work arounds.

OK whatever sir. Thank you and have a nice day.

You don't have to call me "Sir". I'm not your employer or your father, luckily.

 

[LagunaSol]

Having a hard time coming to terms with your lack of knowledge?

Good grief, just switch to bloody Windows already and cease your spewing of noise!!! This pissing contest is absurd.

You lost all credibility when you played the fanboy card (i.e. fanboy = anyone who doesn't agree with you). The word "fanboy" is a classic Winbot label thrown at anyone who doesn't bow to the iron fist of the Redmond Horde. You'll fit right in on the other side.

Enjoy Windows hell (I should know - I'm in Windows 50 hours a week).

Can we all move on now?

 

[Tosser]

Good grief, just switch to bloody Windows already and cease your spewing of noise!!! This pissing contest is absurd.

What's absurd is people coming into this firewire-thread pretending there cannot be any problems with Apple's implemention of firewire, and that because FW works with their external harddisks there can be no problems whatsoever.
Further, it's absurd how blindly people defend their OS of choice with utter disregard for facts.

You lost all credibility when you played the fanboy card (i.e. fanboy = anyone who doesn't agree with you).

No, a fanboy= someone who's blindly devoted to something despite the facts and have to make up their own reality in order to stay in the void.

The word "fanboy" is a classic Winbot label thrown at anyone who doesn't bow to the iron fist of the Redmond Horde. You'll fit right in on the other side.

Funny that. You just reinforced what I just said.

Enjoy Windows hell (I should know - I'm in Windows 50 hours a week).

Again, if you had read this thread, this is not about which OS I prefer. This is about chosing what works.If it doesn't work, it's utterly useless. Something that doesn't work, simply doesn't work. It's not a difficult concept.
What would you rather have: Roller skates where the wheels are missing, or some ugly ones where the wheels are rolling. I'll take the latter, since I need those "roller skates" to make money.
Or put it another way, if Apple suddenly made monochrome screens, would you be able to make a living in print?

Can we all move on now?

Sure. Wade in and spew some nonsense and then _afterwards_ play the big man. That's like slapping someone and then afterwards go "I don't want to fight". You have to choose. You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[LagunaSol]

Again, if you had read this thread, this is not about which OS I prefer. This is about chosing what works.If it doesn't work, it's utterly useless.

So go get a Windows machine. Problem solved. What's your point in ranting and raving about it?

You: Mac doesn't work - I'm switching to Windows.
Someone else: Windows sucks.
You: No, Mac sucks.
Someone else: You suck.
You: No, you suck.

On and on it goes. Use what's best for you. And then shut up about it, for the love of all that's holy. Firewire doesn't work on Macs in the way you need it to work. Great. Or bummer. Whatever. Just go get some equipment that does work for you and stop playing the martyr.

Or keep trolling this board, throwing insults at anyone who disagrees with you. It's your time I suppose.

 

[Tosser]

So go get a Windows machine. Problem solved. What's your point in ranting and raving about it?

You: Mac doesn't work - I'm switching to Windows.
Someone else: Windows sucks.
You: No, Mac sucks.
Someone else: You suck.
You: No, you suck.

You're totally off track. This is how it went:

Long thread, numerous people: No FW and inferior FW chipset makes Macs useless for work.
You and Co: No, you're just windows fanboys - FW works for me/I don't use firewire
Us: Here's what doesn't work for us: Examples, examples:
You and Co: Nia, nia nia, I can't hear you. It works, it works, it works.

On and on it goes. Use what's best for you. And then shut up about it, for the love of all that's holy.

There really aren't anything more pitiful than whingers who whinge about people who whinge about real problems.

Firewire doesn't work on Macs in the way you need it to work. Great. Or bummer. Whatever. Just go get some equipment that does work for you and stop playing the martyr.

Noone is playing the martyr. Well, perhaps except for the people who find it hard to listen to facts and real problem. So hard in fact, that the strategy becomes: Ignore, then counter facts by plugging fingers into ears. Then, when that doesn't work, tell people they shouldn't even be here.

You know what, what about you found some other thread to whinge about the whinge, so to speak? What's the purpose of coming into a 3000+ thread and tell people "If you don't like it, just shut up"?

Or keep trolling this board, throwing insults at anyone who disagrees with you. It's your time I suppose.

... Says the bloke who had no other purpose of entering this thread other than to tell other people to shut up. Nice going

 

[LagunaSol]

... Says the bloke who had no other purpose of entering this thread other than to tell other people to shut up. Nice going

My bad - I didn't realize this thread was all about you and your unjust pilgrimage to the Windows world.

Carry on.

 

[NT1440]

<snip>

The point hes trying to get across:

You've made your decision, and thats 100% ok, now please, just stop dragging on the conversation about who says what .

 

[Tosser]

My bad - I didn't realize this thread was all about you and your unjust pilgrimage to the Windows world.

It's not. But did you do _anything_ other when entering this thread than tell people to shut up?
Let me answer that for you: No you didn't.

Carry on.

Indeed.

 

[LagunaSol]

It's not. But did you do _anything_ other when entering this thread than tell people to shut up?

Actually, I'm trying to follow this thread. Which has become difficult due to your 8-page diatribes. Give the quote button a rest already.

Oh, and try this: http://www.dell.com.

Have a nice day.

 

[NT1440]

It's not. But did you do _anything_ other when entering this thread than tell people to shut up?
Let me answer that for you: No you didn't.

And theres absolutly no need to comment on it from your side, thats all people have been saying, you have no need to drag on pointless bickering between people.

Anyway, ontopic, i have a feeling well see FW in the macbook at the revision along with a small spec bump, and perhaps a small price drop as well.

 

[Tosser]

Actually, I'm trying to follow this thread. Which has become difficult due to your 8-page diatribes. Give the quote button a rest already.

Why? I'm not the one trying to play it "big", and then can't give it a rest myself. Nor do I believe you.

Oh, and try this: http://www.dell.com.

What's that?
Oh, now I get it. You're trying to pretend to give me advice, tongue-in-cheek. Oh, ha ha, that's funny. So because I'm leaving the platform I should go to dell. Is it possible to be anymore cliché than that suggestion?

If you had actually followed the thread as you say you try– before it became a discussion, you would have noticed I already mentioned what I bought and am waiting for.

Have a nice day.

Again? Say something first, and then pretend to not be part of a discussion?
Anyway, you two are acting like trolls with no other purpose than to try to shut up people who aren't blindly praising your platform of choice. I'm not sure it's clever to continue playing into such nonsense.

And theres absolutly no need to comment on it from your side, thats all people have been saying, you have no need to drag on pointless bickering between people.

Ha ha!
Kettle? Pot? Much?

Anyway, ontopic, i have a feeling well see FW in the macbook at the revision along with a small spec bump, and perhaps a small price drop as well.

I'm a bit torn. On the one hand, the inclusion on Mini makes me think it might happen, but then again, this is on a laptop, they seem to be nixing ports left and right.