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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

cosmonaut23 said:
Yeah, apart from anything else, it's terrible marketing. They're keen to say that these machines are new and improved etc. But they're essentially differentiating the product lines by the inclusion (or not) of firewire. Ergo Firewire is a desirable high-end feature. Ergo, the new MacBook, by Apple's own definition, has been downgraded from the previous model.

Not really very clever.
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This absolutely inconveniences customers that require Firewire and laptop portability.

What are users that really don't like the poor quality displays on previous generation Macbooks supposed to choose? Macbook Pro (previous generation) has a possible graphics card failure issue. Meanwhile, Apple wants customers that simply require Firewire to buy a new Macbook Pro. Those looking to upgrade then see no matte display option (mirror effect standard) and Agere chipset being used once again. Maybe the problems with the chip have been corrected. It would be great if Apple would communicate regarding such things.
 
editguy said:
And that's exactly why I don't think there will be a MBP 13". I don't think they're willing to lower the price on the MB's. Or to make a place for a price point on a 13" MBP, since they would have to lower the MB prices. And If they only add firewire, it really doesn't qualify as a "pro". It would also need to have an expresscard and discrete graphics. If they Want to keep me, they're either going too have to do that are put FW back on the new MB's. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath. But I still think it was worth the effort of leaving comments with Apple and signing the petition. And I certainly appreciate the efforts of the person that started the petition. I didn't think after 24 years with Apple I'd be ready to move on, but that's where I am. A little sad, too.
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I'm not expecting much here either, and I know its wishful thinking for a 13" MacBook Pro. However, they did drop the price of the iPhone a few months after initial release (again pissing people off - they have a tendency to do that lately), so it might happen.

I think the key is what they're going to do with the WhiteBook. SJ did say at the announcement that it was the best selling MacBook - ever - and they were going to continue to sell it for a while. Now, whether that means until inventory clears out, or if they're going to continue to build it, we'll have to wait and see.

I find it hard to believe that if they stop selling the WhiteBook at some point, the cheapest MacBook would be $1299. Even if this was the price point they sold the most WhiteBooks previously, there is a psychological effect of seeing a model at $999 or $1099.
 
CyberBob859 said:
I'm not expecting much here either, and I know its wishful thinking for a 13" MacBook Pro. However, they did drop the price of the iPhone a few months after initial release (again pissing people off - they have a tendency to do that lately), so it might happen.

I think the key is what they're going to do with the WhiteBook. SJ did say at the announcement that it was the best selling MacBook - ever - and they were going to continue to sell it for a while. Now, whether that means until inventory clears out, or if they're going to continue to build it, we'll have to wait and see.

I find it hard to believe that if they stop selling the WhiteBook at some point, the cheapest MacBook would be $1299. Even if this was the price point they sold the most WhiteBooks previously, there is a psychological effect of seeing a model at $999 or $1099.
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I don't even think a 13" MBP with firewire is the real issue here.

The wider implication of this (dropping Firewire from the Macbook) is that Apple intend to drop it from all their consumer products. (i.e. the (new?) mini and the iMac too. Leaving it to be the expensive and increasingly irrelevent preserve of the high end only. Without that large installed base, the third party support and interest will rapidly dry up.

For us older mac heads, this is disturbingly reminiscent of the dark days of the mid nineties, when Apple similarly embarked on separating its product lines between the under-featured consumer products (remember the performa?) and the decent, but highly over-priced professional offerings. I thought they'd learnt their lesson long ago. Apparently not.
 
First MacRumor Post

Apple's decision has to be the lamest I've seen since becoming an Apple-ite. Question is, "How do we, the loyal user community, get Steve's attention to ensure that future products include firewire?"
 
scramers6 said:
Apple's decision has to be the lamest I've seen since becoming an Apple-ite. Question is, "How do we, the loyal user community, get Steve's attention to ensure that future products include firewire?"
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Spread the word, don't let it drop, and don't take no for an answer. If we all just accept this is the way things are going, then sure, that's what'll happen.
 
cosmonaut23 said:
I don't even think a 13" MBP with firewire is the real issue here.

The wider implication of this (dropping Firewire from the Macbook) is that Apple intend to drop it from all their consumer products. (i.e. the (new?) mini and the iMac too. Leaving it to be the expensive and increasingly irrelevent preserve of the high end only. Without that large installed base, the third party support and interest will rapidly dry up.

For us older mac heads, this is disturbingly reminiscent of the dark days of the mid nineties, when Apple similarly embarked on separating its product lined between the under-featured consumer products (remember the performa?) and the decent, but highly over-priced professional offerings. I thought they'd learnt their lesson long ago. Apparently not.
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No arguments from me about this.
 
cosmonaut23 said:
Spread the word, don't let it drop, and don't take no for an answer. If we all just accept this is the way things are going, then sure, that's what'll happen.
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how about these steps?

1) shout FireWire! Firewire!! every 10 mintues at MWSF 2009? :rolleyes:

2) purchase only firewire enabled Macs like lower end white macbook :rolleyes:

3) postpone the Mac purchases until couple of quarters say like until Snow Leopard introduced, i know we all cannot keep waiting :D

4) do nothing and hail steve o jobs :apple:

Tell Apple what you think: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html
Sign the petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html
 
New idea for "I'm a Mac" commercial:

Mac is standing there as PC walks-up with a musician.

Mac: "Hey PC..who's this?"
PC: "This is a musician friend of mine who wants to edit and record sound for his band's video"
Mac: "Well you know PC, Mac has been the platform of choice for musicians and artists....our stuff just works"
Musician: "Yeah..we used those in school...OK -- I'll give it a try...let me get my audio interface and my GL1 camera"
Mac: "Umm...wait..."
PC: "What is the problem, Mac?"
Mac: "Those are firewire...you need the pro version...$700, please...or you can by a new camera and audio interface for about $1000, but the camera will compress the video well beyond the DV compression in your GL1. Oh- and who needs more than 2 96K audio tracks? That 8in/8out FW interface..that's just snobby"
Musician: "huh....?"
PC: "You can use all your stuff on a PC for a lot less..."
Musician: "Yeah..I have spent enough on audio gear, cameras, and keyboards..."
Mac: "Wait, but you can buy new audio gear and cameras...and keyboards don't need mLan or firewire...."
PC: "Mac..you're stretching"
Mac: "But I'm the creative computer!"

The sad truth...Apple has failed with this last decision. PC's will start to fill the music/film schools, support for Logic will diminish, support for Mac platform in music will diminish...

In the future, all songs on iTunes will be made on Wintel. :(
 
In fact, might that not be another line of attack for our protestation? Perhaps Apple need a few hundred more threads to delete. And perhaps mentions of "no firewire" might start popping up in seemingly unrelated threads on their forum. That could be quite annoying.
 
Fw

I want my FW port on mb.

If I can't afford to pay $2000 for mbp than I obviously can't afford to get a new video camera that will transfer video over usb only AND pay $1300 for a mb.
 
Quillz said:
USB 3.0 is being finalized and USB 3.0 devices will appear next year.

But the point he's making (I think) is that it might turn out that the two USB ports on the MacBook are 3.0 ready. If 3.0 is backwards compatible with 2.0, then perhaps this is possible, but I doubt it.

The fact is, Apple killed off FireWire because it was unpopular among consumers. Simple as that.
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Not true! How do you think the countless consumers transferred video from their miniDV camcorder to mac? USB? Just because something is used rarely doesn't mean it's not popular.
 
You have 2 options, choose one and stop your bitching...

1) Don't buy a new MacBook, keep your current one, buy a PC notebook, or wait till FW dies and then be like, oh, I dont need this anymore

2) Buy the $999 MacBook which has FW. You don't have to spend $700 more, just spend $300 less.

Apple doesn't make products for you, they make them for everyone don't forget that! That's why they work better b/c they don't try to please everyone so it's less stuff that can go wrong. Just get over it already!!!
 
dizzy13 said:
You have 2 options, choose one and stop your bitching...

1) Don't buy a new MacBook, keep your current one, buy a PC notebook, or wait till FW dies and then be like, oh, I dont need this anymore

2) Buy the $999 MacBook which has FW. You don't have to spend $700 more, just spend $300 less.

Apple doesn't make products for you, they make them for everyone don't forget that! That's why they work better b/c they don't try to please everyone so it's less stuff that can go wrong. Just get over it already!!!
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I think you should go buy a MacBook Air and pair it with your iPhone.
 
cosmonaut23 said:
Anyone seen this rather pertinent link? Apparently we're to shut up now! -

http://gizmodo.com/5065040/apple-not-tolerating-dissent-over-firewire+less-macbook

(Apologies if it's already been posted.)
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That Apple has deleted many such threads is absolutely correct. However, they have left ONE such thread mostly intact since 10/14:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1751964&start=0&tstart=0

That thread is now 46 pages long and some view that as an indication that perhaps Apple is finally listening. We can only hope...
 
dizzy13 said:
Sorry, but I missed your point?

If I had the money I would get an Air, luckily I think the new 1299 looks nice and fits my needs so I'm going to get one of those.
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I meant that you should take your own medicine and buy the crippled lightweight MacBook and use that with your limited iPhone and then try to do some real work with that set-up. But I can see from your answer that you really have no use for anything more than an apple-branded netbook to write and mail your school buddies –*and that by extension, no one else should be wanting or needing more than what you need and want.
 
dizzy13 said:
You have 2 options, choose one and stop your bitching...

1) Don't buy a new MacBook, keep your current one, buy a PC notebook, or wait till FW dies and then be like, oh, I dont need this anymore

2) Buy the $999 MacBook which has FW. You don't have to spend $700 more, just spend $300 less.

Apple doesn't make products for you, they make them for everyone don't forget that! That's why they work better b/c they don't try to please everyone so it's less stuff that can go wrong. Just get over it already!!!
Click to expand...

Apparently you're having difficulty processing things, so I'll state it for you again.

1) I was waiting for the new MB's because of the specs, which are significantly superior to the whitebook, which is yesterday's technology. When you're running a successful business, you don't buy old tech. I will be using firewire because good products are still being made for it today and for the foreseeable future.

2) See number 1

If a product works better because it leaves useful features off, then they need to drop some more things from the MB like ethernet and usb. After all, it has bluetuooth and wifi, what more could you need then wireless connectors because surely that's the future and everyone needs to get over the connectors that they think they need today.?
 
I can't for to hear the outcry from all these "get over it" people when Apple releases USB3 and yanks USB2 compatibility....

LOL

[Yeah..I know it will never happen..but then again, I would have said that about FW 2 years ago]

But you are missing the 'future' effect....as musicians and film schools face having to buy the MBP or get a windows machine for 1/3 of the cost, they are going to go cheap.

The reason I'm still a Mac user is that I was taught on the Mac. I would think Apple would have a harder time switching people entrenched in Wintel hardware (who need specialized ports for music/video), than keeping FW in the MB (it is Apple's technology -- I have no reason to think that would have driven the cost of a MB up significantly....at least enough to 'burden' non FW-users). And, who is to say that switchers wouldn't 'discover' FW benefits and help grow the protocol?

USB2.0 is a standard, for sure. But it does not compare to FW at streaming speeds and sustained speeds.

If USB3 is the end-all-be-all, then fine -- we'll all move to that. But USB3 isn't here yet, so the removal of FW left a lot of us with no upgrade path (except to the pro -- WHICH probably requires the purchase of an express card to get the decent TI firewire chipset). :(

Also, because this also sticks it to the makers of these audio interfaces (who just had their prospective buyer field slashed), why should they stay with the Mac platform?

It is very shortsighted to say that most people don't use FW, so it shouldn't be there. I've never used the audio input on my Macs, but that is there. smile

The idea isn't me whining about ME ME ME, as much as worrying about the future of this whole artistic community on the Mac...and that is a LOT more that the small number of people complaining on these forums, I can promise you.

Peace,
D
 
Gasu E. said:
It's only in the neurotic world of the Mac-obsessed that anyone would imagine that Apple is killing off FW.

Apple has merely done their homework and realized that only a minority of customers are using it, therefore they should not force a feature that most people find useless down EVERYONE's throats. It costs money to add these things! Money that could be invested in R&D, spent on other features, or returned to the stockholders.

As far as Apple is concerned, they have enough FW-based products covering enough form factors and price points that everyone should be able to find a suitable product.

It is only in this strange little universe of Macheads that some kind of contrived "theory of technology aging" would be invented to dismiss the White Macbook as "yesterday's technology" and therefore invalidate it as a choice. This particular product has been, and still is, a powerful little product that punches above its price class.

A wise consumer should be making a logical decision based on price, features, performance, and useful life. The White MacBook continues to be a winner in all these areas.
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Hmm, I don't know where to start.
Only homework Apple's done is figuring out how to make extra $700 per laptop by dropping a $20 part from its mb. From the homework Apple realized there is no alternative to FW hence anyone who needs FW (for like using miniDV camcorder) will have to pay $700 more for a laptop, when a MB will be just fine.

How do you know only a minority of consumers use FW on mac? And let's assume only a minority uses FW. Is it right to force that minority to pay $700 more for a FW port?
Apple shouldn't be forcing a 'consumer' laptop without a FW port down EVERYONE'S throat.
So what did you lose for getting a laptop that has a FW port? Was it painful?

And pls tell me what FW-based product Apple products cover where mb is lacking?

A wise consumer would stay away from mb and demand that apple bring back FW to all of its laptops/desktops.

And lastly, how is the White Macbook a winner in all of the areas (price, features, performance, and useful life)? Seriously?
 
Glad to see the fire's still raging. It's probably been said before, but what concerns me is that if they are willing to remove FW from the MacBook so swiftly, the rest of the line is next, without a very clear external interface successor. The fact is, there's no reason to change FW800 currently. It's fast and reliable and nothing is really pushing its upper limit, is it?
 
midiotlv said:
I can't for to hear the outcry from all these "get over it" people when Apple releases USB3 and yanks USB2 compatibility....

LOL
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USB2 is backward compatible so I assume USB3 will also be this way.


editguy said:
Apparently you're having difficulty processing things, so I'll state it for you again.

1) I was waiting for the new MB's because of the specs, which are significantly superior to the whitebook, which is yesterday's technology. When you're running a successful business, you don't buy old tech. I will be using firewire because good products are still being made for it today and for the foreseeable future.
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Yeah, I understand. I waited for a couple months for the new macbooks to come out, but why complain about it? Apple doesn't make products for the few, they make them for the many. So just check prices and specs and buy what is available in your price range that works for you and your business, that's what I do.

I mean I never really liked apple until about a year ago and this will be my first purchase of a mac in any form. I hate how apple ties your hands with their products, but they are starting to loosing that (not much though). So I'm just sacrificing a little bit of freedom for a more stable and fun platform. I still have a 8400 intel based custom built PC for my main computer. Not getting an iMac anytime soon.

Tosser said:
I meant that you should take your own medicine and buy the crippled lightweight MacBook and use that with your limited iPhone and then try to do some real work with that set-up. But I can see from your answer that you really have no use for anything more than an apple-branded netbook to write and mail your school buddies –*and that by extension, no one else should be wanting or needing more than what you need and want.
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You have lots of choices with different specs and prices. You have to pick what works best for you. The air would suit me fine for my needs and I would rather have an air since its very small, but I can't justify spending $1000s more to save 1.5 pounds so that was out. You don't hear me crying that it's too much and want apple to lower the price??? Although the 1299 macbook doesn't have everything I want, it will suit my needs and is the best choice for ME. If it didn't fit enough of my needs I would get something else, maybe not a macbook.
 
dizzy13 said:
You have 2 options, choose one and stop your bitching...

1) Don't buy a new MacBook, keep your current one, buy a PC notebook, or wait till FW dies and then be like, oh, I dont need this anymore

2) Buy the $999 MacBook which has FW. You don't have to spend $700 more, just spend $300 less.

Apple doesn't make products for you, they make them for everyone don't forget that! That's why they work better b/c they don't try to please everyone so it's less stuff that can go wrong. Just get over it already!!!
Click to expand...


Stop your stupidity.
 
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