Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[cheesymogul]

If the new Macbook was meant for the present as well as the future, they should at least have included a pc express slot!
This would have saved us a lot of trouble. The firewire problem now, and the USB 3.0 incompatibility that will trigger further headache soon.

Without a viable high-speed connection the current model will be a fad without much resale value, the same day USB 3.0 arrives.
USB 2.0 is far from state of the art. If you are used to FW800, you will never go back to anything slower! And yes it's true, even FW400 is faster than USB 2.0...

The Macbook sure looks fancy and therefore has undeniable switcher and fanboi appeal – but unfortunately it suffers greatly in the functionality department. IMHO it's just an oversized, overpowered and overpriced netbook.

Therefore it would be stupid to buy a Macbook now. Unless of course your old Mac portable is on its last legs and needs to be replaced.

 

[LillDrutten]

While it is true and unfortunate that firewire for external hd and most cameras is necessary, and I am unhappy, it is only an issue for about another year.

It is inevitable that, probably about a year from now, USB 3.0 is coming. When it does, it will be faster than firewire and the macbooks of the time will likely support it. So, while it looks bad now, if you hold on to what you have for a year or so the following versions of the macbook will alleviate this issue.

So in sum, while the future of the macbook looks bleak now, if you wait a year the issue will be addressed.

USB 3.0 still don't have DMA so it won't be any solution!
A color printer wont replace a color display. Even if it has 10 times the resolution it's not doing the same thing.

 

[Eric S.]

The Macbook sure looks fancy and therefore has undeniable switcher and fanboi appeal – but unfortunately it suffers greatly in the functionality department.

The only functionality it lacks is FireWire. If you don't need it, what difference does it make?

IMHO it's just an oversized, overpowered and overpriced netbook.

It's a much better choice than the undersized, underpowered, and overpriced Macbook Air.

 

[sushi]

It was dumb for Apple to not include FW.

Agree.

However I'm sure Engadget mentioned an ethernet-to-FireWire conversion adapter. Fortunately the MacBook still has an ethernet jack. We may still have hope...

I doubt this will allow Target Disk Mode, which is very valuable feature.

Personally, if I could not have both a Giga Ethernet port and a FW800 port, I would opt for the FW800 port. Also, with FW3200, the connector and cables are the same as FW800 which is nice.

 

[Freyqq]

hmm

i agree that firewire should have been there and I am unhappy that it is not..even dells have firewire these days..it really will probably destroy firewire longterm now that apple seems to be losing interest

but

it is unknown to my knowledge how USB 3 works..it hasn't been released yet..for all we know it could be able to handle a steady stream of info rather than just small bursts. It is pure conjecture at this point. What I do know is that it will likely be a better alternative for external hd compared to fw 400...considering it seems like its being designed for that particular purpose. The only thing that is an issue for me is the loss of target disk mode and the inability to connect most camcorders.....both huge things. Unfortunately, though this is the direction apple chose to follow and because you can't install osx on a regular pc..your stuck with their decisions whether you like them or not.

 

[sushi]

it really will probably destroy firewire longterm now that apple seems to be losing interest

We don't know this for sure, yet.

The following computers still support FW:
- MB (low end White model)
- MBP
- Mac Mini
- Mac Pro

The computers that don't support FW:
- MBA (While desired, this sort of makes sense.)
- MB (Aluminum models)

It is possible that Apple could introduce FW into the MB aluminum models. They could do this by a MoBo redesign or by switching the Giga Ethernet to FW800.

 

[cube]

The computers that don't support FW:
- MBA (While desired, this sort of makes sense.)

No, it doesn't make sense. It's another typical form over function product from Apple. There are lighter competititors with optical drive, gigabit ethernet, and even ExpressCard.

 

[sushi]

No, it doesn't make sense. It's another typical form over function product from Apple. There are lighter competititors with optical drive, gigabit ethernet, and even ExpressCard.

Note, I said that it sort of makes sense. I can understand the reasoning even if I don't agree with it.

As for the rest of Apple's computer offerings, I believe all should have a FW800 socket. That way when FW3200 is released, everything is already set for FW3200 since the connectors are the same as FW800.

 

[ralphbu]

Apple seriously supports HD video?

Who'd have thunk it? As far as I know, there's no way to output whatever HD video you make on the Mac except to your TV - apparently the geniuses at Apple (Oh I forgot, their geniuses all work in case design, not features) have not been able to figure out how to make any HD dvd format, such as Blue Ray, work with the Mac. So it just piles up on your hard drive? Takes up a lot of space and it would be nice to somehow get it off! How can anyone seriously use the Mac for HD with no output format?

 

[robanga]

You can output HD video via wireless 802.11. Yesterday, I made an HD Video on my MBP and sent it to my network storage via 802.11. I've also sent it via USB to an external hard drive. What am I missing?

 

[darwinian]

Yet another redundant comment -- but I am hoping that it's true that Apple want to distinguish their Pro and Consumer lines. I recognize the irony and the ambiguity introduced by the stellar MacBook update with respect to case and graphics, etc. But probably they think Pros should be on MBPs and consumers (who by and large may not care about FW like we do) should be on the MB.

I recognize that users of these boards represent a curious overlap of consumers who may not need Pro machines but want them for whatever reasons, and another subset of those obviously want to save money and get as much value for their money by buying a MacBook - those are the folks that are probably most upset about the lack of inclusion of FW.

 

[OttawaGuy]

You can output HD video via wireless 802.11. Yesterday, I made an HD Video on my MBP and sent it to my network storage via 802.11. I've also sent it via USB to an external hard drive. What am I missing?

How many minutes long?

 

[skydog]

I feel apple has missed the point of having a supposedly Pro notebook that does not have firewire 800! What are they thinking. Don't call it a Pro anything if you do not support what a power user is going to need on a top end machine. Period. I have three large firewire 800 drives that I would not be able to access. usb sucks for moving large amounts of data fast in my opinion.

 

[BenRoethig]

I feel apple has missed the point of having a supposedly Pro notebook that does not have firewire 800! What are they thinking. Don't call it a Pro anything if you do not support what a power user is going to need on a top end machine. Period. I have three large firewire 800 drives that I would not be able to access. usb sucks for moving large amounts of data fast in my opinion.

The 15" machine still has a single FW800 port

 

[Eric S.]

I recognize that users of these boards represent a curious overlap of consumers who may not need Pro machines but want them for whatever reasons, and another subset of those obviously want to save money and get as much value for their money by buying a MacBook - those are the folks that are probably most upset about the lack of inclusion of FW.

This is not a "curious overlap," it is an accurate representation of computer users. "Pro" and "consumer" are arbitrary categories. One can easily imagine a "pro" using a Macbook for many tasks and a "consumer" wanting functionality provided by the MBP. Apple wants its customers to buy into these arbitrary categories because that allows Apple to define them in a way that will maximize profits.

 

[BenRoethig]

This is not a "curious overlap," it is an accurate representation of computer users. "Pro" and "consumer" are arbitrary categories. One can easily imagine a "pro" using a Macbook for many tasks and a "consumer" wanting functionality provided by the MBP. Apple wants its customers to buy into these arbitrary categories because that allows Apple to define them in a way that will maximize profits.

Exactly. In terms of price and CPU speed, the Macbook is very much a higher end laptop.

 

[SteveG4Cube]

Forget Pro vs Consumer, there are TONS of people who already own FW camcorders who will not be willing to abandon them and will therefore not be buying a new MB (or any other future Mac model that excludes FW). My HV20 is less than a year old, my MacBook is over 2 years old, I was awaiting the new model, now I'll be getting more use out of what I've got instead of giving them my business.

 

[Eric S.]

Forget Pro vs Consumer, there are TONS of people who already own FW camcorders who will not be willing to abandon them and will therefore not be buying a new MB (or any other future Mac model that excludes FW).

But that's just the point. According to Apple you are a "pro." You didn't use to be, but now their profit structure requires you to be recategorized.

 

[danny_w]

Forget Pro vs Consumer, there are TONS of people who already own FW camcorders who will not be willing to abandon them and will therefore not be buying a new MB (or any other future Mac model that excludes FW). My HV20 is less than a year old, my MacBook is over 2 years old, I was awaiting the new model, now I'll be getting more use out of what I've got instead of giving them my business.

That is exactly right. I have a late 2006 Macbook and a Sony DCR-HC30 miniDV camcorder. I don't use my camcorder very much, and certainly not enough to go buy a new one. I also have a few fw disks that, even though they do have USB2 ports, I prefer to use in fw mode for the added speed benefits. I will also not be upgrading to the new Macbook, or any Mac that does not support firewire. It seems that Apple has completely left out the casual user that has existing equipment; this type of user is not likely to go out and buy new equipment just to use the new Macbook, and is certainly not the type to spring for a Macbook Pro.

 

[Adamo]

The 15" machine still has a single FW800 port

...which can still be daisy-chained, non?

 

[Tosser]

Nvm. I was stupid enough to reply to a post from the first page. Ignore.

 

[editguy]

But that's just the point. According to Apple you are a "pro." You didn't use to be, but now their profit structure requires you to be recategorized.

In three sentences, this post nails it. It has nothing to do with "pro"s or "non-pros" because those are arbitrary designations concocted by Apple. It has everything to do with profit structure and trying to force users to a higher priced notewbook whether it meets their needs or not. I realize that at some level every corporation attempts this, but Apple is becoming way too adept at it.

 

[bathmatt]

what?

To repeat everything people are saying
usb2 is crap for live transfer of video. it drops frames
all decent camera contrary to what jobs says are firewire not usb2
hard drive and solid state cameras are generally crap

the lack of firewire is the one thing stopping me buying one right now

mac please listen to your customers

 

[LillDrutten]

mac please listen to your customers

They only listen to your wallet.
Every one thats buys a macbook is a vote for a firewire free mac.

 

[koobcamuk]

Note, I said that it sort of makes sense. I can understand the reasoning even if I don't agree with it.

As for the rest of Apple's computer offerings, I believe all should have a FW800 socket. That way when FW3200 is released, everything is already set for FW3200 since the connectors are the same as FW800.

There's always rev B...