There are good ones, however all of them either use FW (prosumer) or HD-SDI or FW (pro cams).
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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There are good ones, however all of them either use FW (prosumer) or HD-SDI or FW (pro cams).
On the Consumer end, I have a Canon HF100, and it is damn good. Their whole line of AVCHD now are amazing. USB and Solid State.
As for the Pro Cams, yes, they largely still use firewire, although Panasonic just released a Prosumer AVCHD cam, and I believe their HVX200 and its successor also can move files across USB.
As for HDV, USB is a no go.
For the record, I think Apple made a big mistake not including a Firewire 800 port in the new Macbook.
a fw800 socket won't help you one bit with fw3200 if the chip on that mobo does not support it.
but otherwise yes, apple should drop fw400 altogether and equip all its models with fw800 before moving on to fw3200.
True!
Sure. But if there is already a FW800 socket, then the space and wiring are already there. Just need the chipset.
Agree.
On a side note, I see more MoBos with FW400 these days. Quite a few have a FW400 socket already available on the backbone. Others, you have to add the sockets on your own but the MoBo jumpers exist.
Here's hoping!
Let's not forget how damn late Apple entered the whole AVCHD game!
- For pros finally around June 07 with its long overdue AVCHD FCP update. On its initial release FCP6 (Studio2) in April 07 was still not AVCHD compatible!!!!
- For amateurs with iMovie 08 in August 07.
- For serious amateurs with FCE not before February 08, or was it March?
Until June 07 Apple users had no other choice than buying a FW HDV camcorder, simply because we couldn't edit USB camcorder material on a Mac!!!
Therefore Apple has screwed us video people not once but twice and left us standing in the rain. And from what I've learned audio users are sitting in the same boat.
My days of enthusiastically promoting Macs to potential switchers are over.
The last thing we need are masses of Apple newbies who lower the hardware standards even further, because all they care about is MS Office.
- For pros finally around June 07 with its long overdue AVCHD FCP update. On its initial release FCP6 (Studio2) in April 07 was still not AVCHD compatible!!!!
- For amateurs with iMovie 08 in August 07.
- For serious amateurs with FCE not before February 08, or was it March?
Until June 07 Apple users had no other choice than buying a FW HDV camcorder, simply because we couldn't edit USB camcorder material on a Mac!!!
Therefore Apple has screwed us video people not once but twice and left us standing in the rain. And from what I've learned audio users are sitting in the same boat.
My days of enthusiastically promoting Macs to potential switchers are over.
The last thing we need are masses of Apple newbies who lower the hardware standards even further, because all they care about is MS Office.
We've heard this noise before. Let's wait to see what heppens when the iMac is refreshed.
I sure won't be recommending a mb to my relative for this christmas, and they need a new laptop yesterday! And since they are not Pro-anything in electronics dept they sure won't be shelling out 2k for a 'pro' level laptop.
Lost a chance to convert them to mac. Looks like dell for them for next 3 yrs.
Why stop before paying? Why not buy it and than return it the next day, telling them, no FW? No go.
What about picking up a mb at bestbuy and than just return them the next day as a protest?
Yep, it's true that consumers who have FW only cameras aren't going to buy the new MacBooks. And they shouldn't buy new cameras or new MBPs just because of this. Did their old MBs stop working?
I disagree that we're an accurate representation of computer users. I agree that pro and consumer are arbitrary categories, but it would be false to think that just because marketing labels are not 100% accurate that there isn't truth to them. Let me just explain briefly - professionals are making money off of their machines and depend on the highest possible performance in order to do so. It's critical to our work. We have a value consideration to make and often choose to go for the best gear, as it provides the best value. A lot of consumers (college students, etc.) may have tighter budgetary constraints and therefore are willing to trade off performance for cost (in which case the MBs are a great value -- unless you have FW needs, obviously).
emph. added -- this is all I meant by my distinction of pro v. consumer. It doesn't change the fact that (a) existing (deployed) hardware works just fine and (b) the new MBs don't have FW but should.
What remains to be seen is what happens to FW other machines -- specifically the iMacs (my guess and hope is that it will remain) and MPs (prediction: remains) and Mac Minis (possibly FW could be eliminated, assuming minis are not eliminated entirely).
One other point of consideration -- electronics design is not just about aesthetics. I don't really know much about design, so I'm just posing this. There's a pretty difficult problem to solve of cramming all of the electronics in there in such a way that optical drives still open outward and power gets everywhere and various boards fit, etc. etc. etc. It could be (like when FW was removed from the iPod because the FW chipset was apparently too large?) that their tradeoff between design and function once again erred toward design. This is not at all an excuse but just an additional consideration. And to preemptively address the cry that they were able to fit FW into the new MBPs, one must consider that their case is, in fact, larger.
I disagree that we're an accurate representation of computer users. I agree that pro and consumer are arbitrary categories, but it would be false to think that just because marketing labels are not 100% accurate that there isn't truth to them. Let me just explain briefly - professionals are making money off of their machines and depend on the highest possible performance in order to do so. It's critical to our work. We have a value consideration to make and often choose to go for the best gear, as it provides the best value. A lot of consumers (college students, etc.) may have tighter budgetary constraints and therefore are willing to trade off performance for cost (in which case the MBs are a great value -- unless you have FW needs, obviously).
emph. added -- this is all I meant by my distinction of pro v. consumer. It doesn't change the fact that (a) existing (deployed) hardware works just fine and (b) the new MBs don't have FW but should.
What remains to be seen is what happens to FW other machines -- specifically the iMacs (my guess and hope is that it will remain) and MPs (prediction: remains) and Mac Minis (possibly FW could be eliminated, assuming minis are not eliminated entirely).
One other point of consideration -- electronics design is not just about aesthetics. I don't really know much about design, so I'm just posing this. There's a pretty difficult problem to solve of cramming all of the electronics in there in such a way that optical drives still open outward and power gets everywhere and various boards fit, etc. etc. etc. It could be (like when FW was removed from the iPod because the FW chipset was apparently too large?) that their tradeoff between design and function once again erred toward design. This is not at all an excuse but just an additional consideration. And to preemptively address the cry that they were able to fit FW into the new MBPs, one must consider that their case is, in fact, larger.
If you are making money from the use of your MBP then I agree we could call you a "pro." But I suspect that only a small percentage of Macbook Pro owners are actually making money directly from their use (and not many of those are dependent on FireWire for their income).
Depends on what we as professionals are using them for. Since a laptop is not likely to ever be my main editing system, the MB (with firewire, of course) is not only adequate, it is preferred as a location system. So, for me value isn't necessarily in the highest spec machine but, rather, in the machine that best meets my needs (a small form factor). In this case, the MB if it had retained firewire.
Also, without the firewire, I don't think the MB is a "great value" for college students. Not when you can get a quality PC laptop with firewire and specs more closely matching the MBP for less money than the MB, unless the only consideration for the college student is to have the most stylish accessory. When you begin limiting functionality on a $1300 laptop, I no longer see it as a great value.
I'm waiting to see what Apple does in the next 6 months. If there's no move to create a 13" with firewire, and if they remove firewire from the next iMac, I'm completely switching my business to PC's (it's 1/3 there now and working very well. I'm just having a hard time letting go of Apple after 25 years). And, my recommendation for the school where I teach will be to move everything to PC's and have PP CS4 and Avid. They have reduced the educational discount to the point that it is becoming insignificant. Since apple seems to be moving in the direction of catering to consumer fad products and away from content creators, I feel like they're pushing me to make this choice.
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I'd have to say that Apple could have easily fit a FW400 connector into the MacBook. Even Dell could in a $649 13" laptop, along with an 54 mm ExpressCard slot and 8-in-1 Media Card Reader. I don't think the size argument holds any water. On the face of it, Apple made a decision that too few consumers would be using FW400 and that this would be a perfect time to force anyone who either needs or perceives they need FW to upsell them.
I think this decision has to a certain extent backfired. Even I, who only knows Apple's computing experience and has never contacted them, have sent a message expressing frustration in the lack of a FW port on the MacBook. Anyone who desires can offer their feedback at the line provided.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html
Well, a other conclusion is that Dell is much better to design laptap hardware. My personal opinion is that I use apple for their good software. Their hardware is sadly more a shell than content. Don't bother my much, goes with the brand, as long as my software needs are fulfilled. Now they are not since audio is't working.
Agree with this.
All Macs should now come with FW800 these days, and in the future FW3200, even the MBA. Target Disk Mode is very important for many individuals, let along being able to do quick large file transfers and backups/cloning.
First they came for the sound-in but i did not speak out because I was not a pro-musician.
Then they came for the matte screen but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-designer.
Next they came for the discrete video card, but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-gamer.
After that they came for firewire but i did not speak out because I was not a pro-video editor.
Finally they came for me because I was not pro-ductive.
& apologies to Martin Niemöller
Then they came for the matte screen but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-designer.
Next they came for the discrete video card, but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-gamer.
After that they came for firewire but i did not speak out because I was not a pro-video editor.
Finally they came for me because I was not pro-ductive.
& apologies to Martin NiemöllerGood point.First they came for the sound-in but i did not speak out because I was not a pro-musician.
Then they came for the matte screen but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-designer.
Next they came for the discrete video card, but I did not speak out because I was not a pro-gamer.
After that they came for firewire but i did not speak out because I was not a pro-video editor.
Finally they came for me because I was not pro-ductive.
Best way to keep features in the new Macs, is to voice our opinions, and then vote with our hard earned dollars.
On the good side, at least they kept the optical drive in the MB.
It's an anomaly that Steve hasn't jumped head first into FW3200 ahead of the competition. Removing firewire with nothing to replace it is agressive but in the wrong direction and for the wrong reasons. It concerns me that USB 3 will simply give us faster speeds in bursts - it doesn't meet the requirements of tasks which require a constant data throughput, common in film and audio production be it for the home or professional use.