Even USB 2.0 has isochronous mode for time-based data, as well as a facility for bandwidth reservation. I think the problem is that current devices do not implement USB isochronous mode but only act as bulk mode endpoints.
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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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Even USB 2.0 has isochronous mode for time-based data, as well as a facility for bandwidth reservation. I think the problem is that current devices do not implement USB isochronous mode but only act as bulk mode endpoints.
Why do people keep harping on about USB 3.0 like it's in some way relevant? Does the new macbook have it? Does any currently available computer have it?
People who make it their business to know about these things (Engadget for example), say that USB 3.0 will not be seen in the wild until at least 2010. Intel are also saying it'll be "up to 10x faster than USB 2.0". Well, as we should all be aware by now, USB 2.0 has never been able to live up to the 48MB/sec marketing hype it shipped with. Word is you're lucky to be able to get 25MB/sec. The (already finalised) Firewire S3200 standard will almost certainly be faster than USB 3.0. Add to this the bust data issue, and the fact that FW uses a dedicated bus, and the ongoing superiority of FW for SOME uses should not be in doubt.
Regarding the bus issue, if you're editing video or [insert data intensive media task], you really won't want your sytem being bogged down with USB 3.0's undoubtedly bulky CPU overhead, just in order to talk to your external hard drive (/attached devices). Firewire handles these things and lets the machine get on with what you're asking of it.
And let's not forget target disk mode, which has brought back countless Macs from the brink. USB can't do this. I've read it's not compatible with the design of USB, but even if it were, do we really think that it would be in any way a priority for Intel to enable this very useful, but Mac only technology in their new standard? Seems a little far fetched somehow. And for those who don't know/care what TGM is - it's what your Mac-savvy buddy will use to put your machine right or rescue your precious data, when everything goes wrong.
Bottom line - Save Firewire! The Mac platform will be very much the poorer without it.
This guy here seems to think its a power issue. http://brockerhoff.net/bb/viewtopic.php?p=2555#2555
Firewire needs 7W whereas USB2 requires less. All I can say is that I don't care. I pay more for a Mac, I should get more.
Firewire needs 7W whereas USB2 requires less. All I can say is that I don't care. I pay more for a Mac, I should get more.
S1600 and S3200 & USB Target Disk Mode
Unlikely USB will ever do Target Disk mode, because USB relies on the CPU to work - no CPU, no disk - useless ! USB is for mouse, keyboard, memory stick at a pinch and external disks in an emergency.
Just as concerning as the lack of Firewire in new MacBooks is the SINGLE Firewire port on MacBook Pros. Sure it will run 400 and 800, but two ports minimum, please Apple.
What we haven't heard about is Apple's timetable for introducing faster Firewire - S1600 and S3200. They use the same connector as Firewire 800, but I'm betting it won't be a firmware upgrade to get it working. I'm sure new electronics will also be required. Wikipedia says these are supposed to be available late-2008. I sense a cock-up. Apple may have intended to introduce it, but it's not available - and Steve's left with egg on his face (again). That's his value as a salesman - good news is easy, smoothing over bad news is the real trick !
It's like dropping the price on the 8GB iPhone and not having a shiny 16Gb model to distract the complainers. Another half-a-plan from Apple. I'd love to see Steve behind closed doors when these things don't come off.
Unlikely USB will ever do Target Disk mode, because USB relies on the CPU to work - no CPU, no disk - useless ! USB is for mouse, keyboard, memory stick at a pinch and external disks in an emergency.
Just as concerning as the lack of Firewire in new MacBooks is the SINGLE Firewire port on MacBook Pros. Sure it will run 400 and 800, but two ports minimum, please Apple.
What we haven't heard about is Apple's timetable for introducing faster Firewire - S1600 and S3200. They use the same connector as Firewire 800, but I'm betting it won't be a firmware upgrade to get it working. I'm sure new electronics will also be required. Wikipedia says these are supposed to be available late-2008. I sense a cock-up. Apple may have intended to introduce it, but it's not available - and Steve's left with egg on his face (again). That's his value as a salesman - good news is easy, smoothing over bad news is the real trick !
It's like dropping the price on the 8GB iPhone and not having a shiny 16Gb model to distract the complainers. Another half-a-plan from Apple. I'd love to see Steve behind closed doors when these things don't come off.
For all the fanboys that have become apple haters this is a good read.
http://gizmodo.com/5070115/designing-the-new-macbook-why-it-couldnt-have-firewire
http://gizmodo.com/5070115/designing-the-new-macbook-why-it-couldnt-have-firewire
But the hard drive and battery were already easily accessible in the MacBook...
We've seen the logicboard and take aparts, we know.
The article has good points.
The only thing I can argue is the fact that companies like Foxconn (and the likes) make great "remote port" products in which a port can be on an opposing side of the card it attaches to. You then use a shielded cable to bring the data to the logic board across from said port, making port locations less of an issue in board design.
While that may be a bandaid, server products, as well as competitor's laptops utilize this, and make it a tried and true method.
Having read the Gizmodo article one poster's comment interested me:
coketown
7:13 PM on Tue Oct 28 2008
Voodoo got around this by putting the Ethernet port inside the power brick, and then using the brick as a wi-fi router. I'm sure Apple could have come up with something novel, but I'm guessing a huge majority of Mac owners don't use Firewire (I mean even the iPod uses USB) so the issue just wasn't that pressing.
Isn't it a shame, considering Apple made Airport Express.
coketown
7:13 PM on Tue Oct 28 2008
Voodoo got around this by putting the Ethernet port inside the power brick, and then using the brick as a wi-fi router. I'm sure Apple could have come up with something novel, but I'm guessing a huge majority of Mac owners don't use Firewire (I mean even the iPod uses USB) so the issue just wasn't that pressing.
Isn't it a shame, considering Apple made Airport Express.
Quoting from the Wired article: IT Pros Find Lack of FireWire on MacBooks Disturbing
"Sleek, sexy and silver, Apple's new MacBook may be a consumer's dream machine. But to some information-technology professionals, its lack of FireWire makes it look like a nightmare.
'I've been fixing Macs for 15 years, and this to me is just a big middle finger in the face for us Mac guys,' said Tom Koch, the owner of Omnitech, a Mac repair service."
"Sleek, sexy and silver, Apple's new MacBook may be a consumer's dream machine. But to some information-technology professionals, its lack of FireWire makes it look like a nightmare.
'I've been fixing Macs for 15 years, and this to me is just a big middle finger in the face for us Mac guys,' said Tom Koch, the owner of Omnitech, a Mac repair service."
This nicely sums the situation up for me. If the very professionals who have been working with Macs for years (and presumably advocating Apple at the same time) see this as a bad move then I really think Apple need to take notice.
I have also worked part-time as a Mac repairer, and two of the most useful diagnostic/repair tools are carried out using firewire (i.e. target disk mode diagnostics and cloning).
The iPod still has a FireWire in it's Dock Connector. You can get a cable Dock Connector - Firewire from Apple and the iPod will work perfectly fine on a FireWire port.
Apple recommend NOT using firewire to charge your iPhone or new iPod. My old iPod is firewire. Fast speed (better than USB) and more importantly, it frees up the USB ports for all the other rubbish that requires them.
Or any other currency... let's just say "money"
On the good side, at least they kept the optical drive in the MB.
Weirdly, I would prefer firewire to an optical drive. Haven't needed one for over 2 years now... but I see how this is more important to the consumer. Hell, I am by no means a Pro, but I am sat here with my 12" PowerBook (which is smaller than the MacBook in width) and that has 2 USB, FireWire and all the other ports AND A MODEM! They can and will fit it in there.
Same.
I have converted too many people that don't know what USB stands for or what firewire actually is. The people that can't understand how the iMac is "all in the screen". Oh dear God, what did we do?? No. Go research!
well, the hard disk is accessible and IDE/SATA external boxes can be used to get the data out of a borked computer. Techies will find a way.
None of the iPods released since 2005 will sync over FW. Recent models even refuse to charge!
netbooks
It's funny to see. Apple are really behind. Some 10" netbooks even have expresscard slots. Checkout
Fujitsu Siemens Amilo Mini
Apricot PicoBook Pro VX
Lenovo IdeaPad S10
To me it looks like the new macbooks is just a brick of polished aluminium alloy.
They are probaly a much better choice for the audio people who wants to travel light than any apple computer. And yes, they are about $US 400 Apple hello, anybody home?
It's funny to see. Apple are really behind. Some 10" netbooks even have expresscard slots. Checkout
Fujitsu Siemens Amilo Mini
Apricot PicoBook Pro VX
Lenovo IdeaPad S10
To me it looks like the new macbooks is just a brick of polished aluminium alloy.
They are probaly a much better choice for the audio people who wants to travel light than any apple computer. And yes, they are about $US 400 Apple hello, anybody home?
Then put a handle on a MacPro and call it a "laptop".
Seriously, "less <electrical> power" is MORE in a laptop. It means lighter weight, small package, longer lasting batteries. You should expect tradeoffs. Perhaps there is a market for a laptop with more physical "stuff" but expect it to be hotter and less portable.
"Form" is very much a part of function for a laptop. Obviously. If you don't care about form yourself, which are you even buying a laptop? Desktop and deskside machines provide much more functionality and value.
In fact, it even follows!
Functions include portability and utility. Form is not inherently a part of function for a laptop. Portability is. Form for form's sake is some sort of aesthetic venture, which is fine if you're into that, but the trade off here (utility) probably didn't have to happen. Apple made a design decision that included the elimination of FW. It's similar to the design choices made on the MBA which include no optical drive and a tiny USB port that doesn't fit all plug housings.
That's right...When did all the unwashed masses start moving over to the Mac? We all know Apple should just exist for the "professional" photography, music, video market. Because that is a huge market after all.
Hey I have nothing against firewire. I use it on two of my Macs, but to think that tape is the past, present and future of all cameras is a bit silly. Even though a lot of people here like to malign my choice in HD cameras (a Canon AVHCD model that records to a hard disk), I really like the results. So the future might not be so bleak after all.
Hey I have nothing against firewire. I use it on two of my Macs, but to think that tape is the past, present and future of all cameras is a bit silly. Even though a lot of people here like to malign my choice in HD cameras (a Canon AVHCD model that records to a hard disk), I really like the results. So the future might not be so bleak after all.