Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[cosmonaut23]

without reading the whole thread, i would think usb 3.0 will solve alot of the problems once its implemented

Firstly, on what basis do you say that? I've not seen any evidence for that.

Secondly, it doesn't even exist yet. You can't buy a computer with it or a peripheral that uses it, nor will you be able to for probably at least 2 years. So how on Earth is it even remotely relevant to a discussion about Firewire now?

Please can we stop talking about USB-3.0 - it's just completely missing the point.

 

[mattais]

How about we all agree to disagree?

 

[dukebound85]

Firstly, on what basis do you say that? I've not seen any evidence for that.

Secondly, it doesn't even exist yet. You can't buy a computer with it or a peripheral that uses it, nor will you be able to for probably at least 2 years. So how on Earth is it even remotely relevant to a discussion about Firewire now?

Please can we stop talking about USB-3.0 - it's just completely missing the point.

im saying once it becomes a standard it will make firewire not as appealing (fw 400 at least)

granted, until it is implemented, it will suck for sure

thats all im saying

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/595893/

that source says usb 3.0 ready products maybe starting Q1 2009 which doesnt seem tooo far away and not 2-3 years away. but who knows how long

dont get your panties in a bunch seriously

 

[myca]

seriously i cannot read through all 81 pages of this pointless crying.

problem: Macbook Pro has 1 FW800 port
solution 1: buy a 3 port FW 400 expresscard.
solution 2: buy a 5 port FW 400 hub and a FW 800 to 400 cable.
solution 3: buy a MacPro Tower

Well hows about you start by reading the title of the thread!

Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

This ain't about the MBP, and p.s. solution 3 doesn't sound that mobile to me.

 

[bobshep64]

I guess my major question is: is what Steve says true?

I have a mini-DV cam from the late 90s that only has firewire, so I honestly don't know....

Same for many of us, and Steve is probably wrong, his reply is a reply of probable ignorance, but to think Apple was the supporter of firewire its unbelievable that he has cast it off in such a flippant manner, what sort of person is he.

And yes, I enjoy coming home to Apple to, but now I can modify that statement and say, "I enjoy coming home to MACOSX" - because who makes the computer is immaterial.

 

[bobshep64]

You are a professional?

get a macbook pro.

Their mistake then. Apple never sold the 13" macbook as a pro machine.

No, just encourage MAcOSX to all computers.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Their mistake then. Apple never sold the 13" macbook as a pro machine.

G4 PowerBooks were sold as pro machines and the MB kicks the living snot out of them. G5 towers were sold as pro machines and the MB performs as well if not better depending on the task. The MB became so fast that for many there was no compelling reason to buy a MBP. For anything but very intensive on-the-go work using a MB to edit DV, AIC, DVCPro50, HDV, DVCPro HD, XDCAM HD etc., is perfectly acceptable. But take away the FW400 port and that all goes out the window. Why else would Apple release their consumer laptop w/o the consumer FW400 port for the first time in 7 or 8 years? Apple had to find a 'better' way to distinguish between the product tiers because relying mainly on speed wasn't enough anymore.


Lethal

 

[dukebound85]

G4 PowerBooks were sold as pro machines and the MB kicks the living snot out of them. G5 towers were sold as pro machines and the MB performs as well if not better depending on the task. The MB became so fast that for many there was no compelling reason to buy a MBP. For anything but very intensive on-the-go work using a MB to edit DV, AIC, DVCPro50, HDV, DVCPro HD, XDCAM HD etc., is perfectly acceptable. But take away the FW400 port and that all goes out the window. Why else would Apple release their consumer laptop w/o the consumer FW400 port for the first time in 7 or 8 years? Apple had to find a 'better' way to distinguish between the product tiers because relying mainly on speed wasn't enough anymore.


Lethal

i agree with you though that they had to differentiate pro from consumer somehow.

edit: changed post as i missed your point comletely the first time reading it

 

[bobshep64]

It is true that many programs in the AV field are cross platform, however with 3 really notable exceptions. Final Cut Pro and Logic, both from Apple themselves and ProTools TDM. Sure ProTools LE and M-Powered run on both Mac and PC, however TDM (the Pro one) is only on the Mac platform.
Audio and visual applications can have some rather intense learning curves and tend to cost a ton with software and hardware. I agree that my MBP is a joke when it comes to doing any real recording. Basically it is a good idea pad and something I can use for backing tracks live, but for the power of recording I have to use my Mac Pro. The new Macbooks are out as there is no FW, The new Macbook Pros are also out of the question because of the problematic FW chip set. Going to a differenct platfrom is also out of the question as I have sunk a ton of time and money into my Logic set up.

Support the push to universal MACOSX, we don't need the hardware.

 

[cosmonaut23]

im saying once it becomes a standard it will make firewire not as appealing

granted, until it is implemented, it will suck for sure

thats all im saying

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/595893/

that source says Q1 2009 which doesnt seem tooo far away and not 2-3 years away. but who knows

dont get your panties in a bunch seriously

Firewire S3200 (the new version) exists as an IEEE agreed standard right now. As to timescale, it's Intel that's been saying 2010 for USB-3.0. And it's still going to be the same basic idea (albeit suped up a bit) as USB-2.0 - a processor controlled bursty consumer protocol, which will be fine for many things, but will never be a wholesale replacement for Firewire's independent data controller for many tasks (see thread), audio being a prime example. This is not an either/or thing, Firewire nicely complements USB, and it's part of what's made Macs great for the last 10+ years. That's why we're getting so upset.

 

[bobshep64]

seriously i cannot read through all 81 pages of this pointless crying.

problem: Macbook Pro has 1 FW800 port
solution 1: buy a 3 port FW 400 expresscard.
solution 2: buy a 5 port FW 400 hub and a FW 800 to 400 cable.
solution 3: buy a MacPro Tower

I was under the impression that the problem was the MacBook has NO FW, the Pro is a solution as well. Hopefully this 81 pages will become a million pages, and you can add to your next post support for universal MACOSX, that would be fantastic.

 

[CyberBob859]

"I'm a PC, and I still work with your Firewire cameras"

 

[phrehdd]

The state of Firewire

Looks like firewire got "beaten up" by several venues -

FW400 vs USB 2.0
FW400 vs FW800
FW400/800 vs esata

I believe Apples failure is that they should have only provided FW800 (backwards compatible) options on their systems. No FW400 ports. This allows a very nice competition with USB 2.0, allowed for early adopters of FW400 to continue an pushed the FW800 vs USB 2 strategy etc.

So in short, they goofed on positioning FireWire over the long haul.

Candidly, I would prefer that Apple drop the Firewire entirely and opt for express card slots. In this, if people only need USB 2.0 they have it. If they need any other kinda of device support they have the express card option. One could select FW400, FW800, esata connector etc. Naturally, optimizing the bus path is in order for the bandwidth requirements.

Express Card option should be included on ALL Mac models. From the Mac Mini/Low end laptop right up to the Mac Pro. This would have solved several problems at once and perhaps Apple could squeeze more bucks out of us for their "official" express cards. <G>

 

[myca]

"I'm a PC, and I still work with your Firewire cameras"

I would love for Microsoft to use that line in their next ads, it would maybe give apple a good kick up the backside, and you never know they might start making computers that their long serving loyal customers can use again.

 

[cosmonaut23]

"I'm a PC, and I still work with your Firewire cameras"

"I'm a PC, and I can run Mac OS-X"

 

[bobshep64]

Looks like firewire got "beaten up" by several venues -...

Fair enough.

"I'm a PC, and I still work with your Firewire cameras"

Excellent, keep up the good work.

I would love for Microsoft...

Good idea.

"I'm a PC, and I can run Mac OS-X"

Shhhhh, somebody might hear you, how did you do that??? Now the daggers will be flying.

Please can we stop talking about USB-3.0 - it's just completely missing the point.

Very True.

That's why we're getting so upset.

Well spoken, give us more.

 

[dukebound85]

Well spoken, give us more.

hey learn to multi-quote bobshep64

 

[bobshep64]

How about we all agree to disagree?

Well Matt, that goes without saying.

 

[cosmonaut23]

Well spoken, give us more.

You want more? Ok how about this - what computer company has ever brought out a new version of a product, taken away a major piece of functionality and not replaced it with anything, or provided even so much as a work around? I'd like to know because i really can't think of another example.

This is what has happened with FW on the Macbook. It's a truly dreadful way to treat customers.

(And please don't mention floppies - they *were* obsolete, and there *was* a work around - totally different).

 

[bobshep64]

Rick, you propably missed it, but there's a quotation mark to the right. Select all of them, and hit "quote" on the last, and it will quote any and all of the selected.
You could also just hit "quote" on each, and then copy/paste it into a single post.

hey learn to multi-quote bobshep64

Sorry mate, I haven't been on a forum before and I was getting carried away, how does this look?

 

[bobshep64]

Feedback for Steve.

You want more? Ok how about this - what computer company has ever brought out a new version of a product, taken away a major piece of functionality and not replaced it with anything, or provided even so much as a work around? I'd like to know because i really can't think of another example.

This is what has happened with FW on the Macbook. It's a truly dreadful way to treat customers.

(And please don't mention floppies - they *were* obsolete, and there *was* a work around - totally different).

I took your feedback suggestion, how does this sound for starters.

Dear Steve,
Please give us a chance to get out of firewire in time, rather than ditching the product without fair warning, judging by the response on Mac Rumours forum, there is a growing number of users upset about getting unceremoniously dumped by Apple on this subject.
Better, would you consider releasing an IBM compatible MacOSX, if you feel having connectivity choices is not what the customer wants.

I think from a financial point of view, like ipods for Windows, it would be a runaway success, people will still buy Apples, so don't panic about that, but at least you can cut the ports down to zero if you want, the diehards will be happy, and the rest of the planet will be ecstatic, anyone who can afford a new $500 PC which is just about everyone, will enjoy MacOSX for the first time, you could consider it your humanitarian contribution to the world, run for president, and rake in a lot of loot as well.
In any case what I'm suggesting is already happening, better to get in now while the going is good, than wait for the approaching tsunami to wash Apple away. I think the choice is clear, and from my own perspective, is long overdue.

Bob

 

[Tosser]

Sorry mate, I haven't been on a forum before and I was getting carried away, how does this look?

No problem, Rick – I figured you just wasnt aware of it. Looks good to me. I don't know why your smiley didn't turn up – it propably had to do with a space lacking before it (that's where it usually cocks up for me).

without reading the whole thread, i would think usb 3.0 will solve alot of the problems once its implemented

Well, you should have read at least some of the thread then.

seriously i cannot read through all 81 pages of this pointless crying.

problem: Macbook Pro has 1 FW800 port
solution 1: buy a 3 port FW 400 expresscard.
solution 2: buy a 5 port FW 400 hub and a FW 800 to 400 cable.
solution 3: buy a MacPro Tower

1) Ah, yes, unless, of course, that expresscard uses USB2-host speeds, or the port is used for something else. And it won't make the 15 inch MacBook into a 13 incher.
2) That won't help with the inferiour Agere chipset in the 15 inch MacBook, nor will it make it into a 13 inch firewire equipped notebook.
3)Sure. And a huge battery bank, inverter and external screen. That will do just fine for field work.

Perhaps you too should have read at least a couple of pages of the thread.

 

[Eidorian]

1) Ah, yes, unless, of course, that expresscard uses USB2-host speeds, or the port is used for something else. And it won't make the 15 inch MacBook into a 13 incher.
2) That won't help with the inferiour Agere chipset in the 15 inch MacBook, nor will it make it into a 13 inch firewire equipped notebook.
3)Sure. And a huge battery bank, inverter and external screen. That will do just fine for field work.

Perhaps you too should have read at least a couple of pages of the thread.

A small correction, you meant PCI-Express x1 speeds right?

 

[Tosser]

A small correction, you meant PCI-Express x1 speeds right?

Ha ha, yeah – even worse.

Edit: Weird. Why the hell did I put the word "host" in there??

 

[ThirteenXIII]

they could have atleast fit mini FW ports on there.
just kind of sucks considering i replaced most of my USB enclosure towards firewire :\