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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
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I agree.
Firstly, Macbook Pro's are designed for professionals - and that includes Firewire, its hardly as if Apple are abandoning the standard right now. I'd consider the number of professionals that would prefer to own a Macbook and that require a firewire port considerably low, although accept the fact there will be some.
The Macbook mainly targets Students and to an extent, low income professionals. If you don't have the money to trade your camera for a USB one, then what are you doing spending all of that cash on the new Macbook? Ok maybe thats not quite fair, why should you be forced to upgrade your camera. But then again, if it is so important that you do keep your old camera, then why not just buy an older model that has Firewire?
Ok, so you buy an older model. Laptops usually last average users 2-3 years, So by the time you want to upgrade again then i'd say your already aging camera is definitely due an upgrade anyway.
But think about this. How many of you use the Macbook as your primary computer anyway? Because whilst its always nice to have everything you want in something, does it really matter that you have to use your PC/iMac/Mac Pro retrieve data from your firewire camera, and transfer it to your MB? If you rely on your laptop more than your desktop, you should have gone Pro anyway.
I think Apple have been quite clever here. With the increase in graphics in the Macbook, i'd find it harder to go for a MBP. They need to differentiate more little features between the models in order to stop one from cannibalising the other's sales.
So here it is, if you must have the newest computer, and keep your older camera - buy a MBP. Otherwise there are plenty of other ways around it.
Firstly, Macbook Pro's are designed for professionals - and that includes Firewire, its hardly as if Apple are abandoning the standard right now. I'd consider the number of professionals that would prefer to own a Macbook and that require a firewire port considerably low, although accept the fact there will be some.
The Macbook mainly targets Students and to an extent, low income professionals. If you don't have the money to trade your camera for a USB one, then what are you doing spending all of that cash on the new Macbook? Ok maybe thats not quite fair, why should you be forced to upgrade your camera. But then again, if it is so important that you do keep your old camera, then why not just buy an older model that has Firewire?
Ok, so you buy an older model. Laptops usually last average users 2-3 years, So by the time you want to upgrade again then i'd say your already aging camera is definitely due an upgrade anyway.
But think about this. How many of you use the Macbook as your primary computer anyway? Because whilst its always nice to have everything you want in something, does it really matter that you have to use your PC/iMac/Mac Pro retrieve data from your firewire camera, and transfer it to your MB? If you rely on your laptop more than your desktop, you should have gone Pro anyway.
I think Apple have been quite clever here. With the increase in graphics in the Macbook, i'd find it harder to go for a MBP. They need to differentiate more little features between the models in order to stop one from cannibalising the other's sales.
So here it is, if you must have the newest computer, and keep your older camera - buy a MBP. Otherwise there are plenty of other ways around it.
You think? How come?
There are NO, absolutely none, audio interfaces, fast HDDs, video cameras that make use of such an interface. You seriously think that people who use firewire will find wireless USB MORE useful?
Really? So, say I have this firewire audio interface, firewire hdd, firewire audio recorder, or, hell, firewire camera. How do I connect that to the new 13 inch macbook?
Haha, it's far from being a matter of "being able to afford". It's a matter of "willingness to downgrade" – and this goes for video cameras, audio recorders and audio interfaces.
If you cannot fathom that, perhaps you should check out the prices of professional equipment, and you will see one of the reasons why we don't allow the whims of Jobs to dictate how we work. We pay good money in the pursuit of perfection and excellent quality, and you all argue that we should just follow some idiotic computer corporation?
Why is it that all of you seem to think that ditching firewire is somehow "upgrading"?
Why do all of you think that it's perfectly fine for professionals to go back 5-10 years in end-product quality, just because more consumers think USB is perfectly adequate?
Further proof of how you buy into the RDF purported by Steve Jobs. It's not about having "old" equipment. It's about having to downgrade if one wants to stay with the platform.
A computer is a necessity for most of us, but for many of us, it's hardly the most expensive purchase, nor is it the thing that gets to dictate what quality our end products will be. No, the equipment we use to gather our raw material is the standard – be it the video camera, audio recorder and/or audio interface.
Man, this is getting tiresome.
All this has been covered before. FW400 is a *consumer* interface originally designed in part to mate well w/the *consumer* format DV. FW400 has been on *consumer* Apple computers for nearly a decade. FW400 is inexpensive, and 'good enough' for lower-end professional work, but it's never been considered a professional interface (at least not in the video world).
*Many* professionals enjoyed the 13" MB because it was a good balance of size and power. Just like many people enjoyed the 12" PB before it got discontinued.
Lethal
You are a professional?
get a macbook pro.
Their mistake then. Apple never sold the 13" macbook as a pro machine.
Sorry. I make my living off content creation and the new MBP does not have the (pro) features I need. To cite just one example: The new MacBook (so called) Pro is using the problematic lucent FW chipset rather than the (reliable) TI chipset. This problem has been discussed many times in this thread and yet people still recommend "get a pro", etc.
Apple's use of the word "pro" is simply marketing hype. You might believe everything Steve Jobs tells you, but most people outside Job's Reality Distortion Field are able to think for themselves. The MacBook was widely used in both the pro audio world and in the home recording world -- another subject addressed numerous times in this thread.
For audio production Apples current "pro" laptops are a joke, yet another subject brought up numerous times in this thread. Rain's LiveBook Mobile Audio Workstation blows the MacBook Pro away in terms of "pro" features for audio production.
Many of the DAW software, sampling software and libraries, digital effects, etc. are multi-platform these days. Switching to Windows is something many pros and hobbyists would find relatively painless. But apparently this is another fact Jobs and Apple just doesn't get. Can Apple really afford to lose its creative community?
It is true that many programs in the AV field are cross platform, however with 3 really notable exceptions. Final Cut Pro and Logic, both from Apple themselves and ProTools TDM. Sure ProTools LE and M-Powered run on both Mac and PC, however TDM (the Pro one) is only on the Mac platform.
Audio and visual applications can have some rather intense learning curves and tend to cost a ton with software and hardware. I agree that my MBP is a joke when it comes to doing any real recording. Basically it is a good idea pad and something I can use for backing tracks live, but for the power of recording I have to use my Mac Pro. The new Macbooks are out as there is no FW, The new Macbook Pros are also out of the question because of the problematic FW chip set. Going to a differenct platfrom is also out of the question as I have sunk a ton of time and money into my Logic set up.
Let me simply refer you to this – latest - post, which once again explain it in plain english to someone from the iPod Crowd who thinks this is somehow "progress":
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/6571375/
And again – I could hardly have put it any better:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/6571375/
Statements like this are so filled with ignorance, it's hard to know where to begin.
First, because Apple decides to put "pro" in the name of a computer, doesn't make it one. The MBP is lacking in several areas if it's going to be considered a truly "pro" machine.
Second, you would be wrong. The number of pros that would want firewire in a MB is significant and, additionally, there are many consumer owners and hobbyists that want firewire far target disk mode and external storage.
It has little to do with money and everything to do with form factor. We want a small notebook.
So, you want me to trade my $4000 camcorders for $399 USB junky consumer camcorders. That's as laughable as it would be stupid. Going to USB would not be an upgrade, it would be an enormous downgrade.
No business person that intends to continue in business buys outdated computer technology because even the latest technology will be outdated soon enough.
It's called location work. You can't practically carry a desktop to location. That's why we want the small form factor, too. But you wouldn't know that because you don't have a clue about the professional uses that you are commenting on.
Well, if you think it's clever to lose a sale completely, then, yes, they've been very clever. Because, not only have they lost the sale of two MB's to me for my business (nor will I be buying the MBP's because I don't want a notebook that big), they will also be losing the sale of new editing computers at my school where I teach video production, because I will now be recommending PC's. After nearly 25 years it's becoming increasingly clear that Apple no longer cares about creative content producers, or education, two markets that sustained them during the tough times.
What I don't get is how the iPod Crowd can be so devoid of imagination that they a) think a monicker like "pro" matters, that b) only processing power matters, and c) that they can't even think so far that not all people do most (not necessarily time wise, but as in "importance") their work at a desk.
I guess they think that there is no other use for a laptop than to play games, muck around with photoshop, sync their iPod and iPhone and write mails at their favourite coffee shop.
So if you were a professional, you'd only buy products that had "Pro" in the name?
How anal are you..
You forgot to add, add, applications to replace Microsoft Office, Final Cut Pro, File Maker Pro, Disk Warrior, Tech Tool Pro, iPhoto, Adobe Photoshop and Graphic Converter.
Your argument stinks.
True, it's called upsell, unfortunately this frustrates many of Apple's old time loyal users.
Millions upon millions of digital camcorders have only Firewire or iLink connections. Mine being just a little over a year old.
Unfortunately, many Mac users do by used, not only for laptops, but for desktops. That is a lost sale. In this case, because of a <$20 cost to Apple.
And that's the bitter pill. It is patently obvious that Apple clearly is abandoning markets they catered to for decades.
Rick, you propably missed it, but there's a quotation mark to the right. Select all of them, and hit "quote" on the last, and it will quote any and all of the selected.
You could also just hit "quote" on each, and then copy/paste it into a single post.
You could also just hit "quote" on each, and then copy/paste it into a single post.
I don't get it, either. And I don't get how they think that removing or disabling or lowering the quality of useful components is a good thing, But I suppose when you've ceased being objective and instead hang on every word that Steve Jobs utters (as if it came from the mouth of god) we should expect the responses that we see here.
I just started using FW400 on my BMB for an external case http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MOTGFWU2/with a 320GB WD Scorpio drive. I will miss the FW
The simple fact is, the casual users that migrated from windows do not know what a professional is, do not care about those who need to get work done, and are beyond stupid if they think professionals only buy things with "pro" in the name. How many people have drunk a beer that says "premium" but tastes like ****?
Fortunately I think enough smart people have NOT bought the MacBook so that sales will take a decent hit. That, and the price rise should cull the switchers and make them buy the white model. Let's hope FireWire comes back, as long as too many newbs don't buy because their toy rocket launchers and dodgy hard drives are USB.
Fortunately I think enough smart people have NOT bought the MacBook so that sales will take a decent hit. That, and the price rise should cull the switchers and make them buy the white model. Let's hope FireWire comes back, as long as too many newbs don't buy because their toy rocket launchers and dodgy hard drives are USB.
Granted Logic and Final Cut are mac only, but there are competent PC equivalents, and if educational markets (and students) start using these equivalents due to this firewire debacle (and cost), then the pros of tomorrow won't be using macs.
Plus a big FYI, Pro Tools HD runs perfectly fine on Windows XP, granted it generally runs more smoothly and with less problems on the mac, but do some research before stating inacurate facts.
Also I find the macbook perfect for field recording, 24 channels on my firewire motu 828, sure if you're doing a heavy mix you may need something a little beefier, but my Dual G5 powermac still does it's duties well, and for power the macbook is pretty close to my Dual G5.
Ok, so I agree that the MBP is not a true 'Professional' solution. But the fact is that it IS Apple's attempt at a professional solution, regardless of your personal opinion. Which by the way, we are all entitled to. I didn't post on this forum to have my messages responded to in such a child like manner.
I'd like to point out that you don't see film makers producing their films on VCRs any more. I have a VCR player however.
Yeah, dont we all. I'd like my macbook to have a graphics card as well. Thing is - whilst both are possible it is the harsh reality that Apple offer a model with such features thats a mere 2" larger, and one without. Your choice.
Like Firewire, and your camera? In the same fashion, no manufacturer includes outdated technology in its newest designs. Im not saying Firewire is depreciated at all, i believe thats why Apple has included it the MBP.
A whole 2" and a few mm's more does not mean the MBP suddenly becomes unportable. Why do you insist on using a mid range laptop for fulfilling all of your professional requirements when it is clearly not designed for such use?
Im sure Apple thought long and hard about removing the port. If you don't like the fact that they did, then go ahead, buy something else. Thats the way consumer market works - you find the product that suits you. Just dont go bitching because its not everything that you want it to be!
If the industry catered 100% for people like you, then we would still have beta max tapes and floppy disk drives. In order to move on we need to discard older technologies gradually. Hence the result.
Yay, 2000 posts.
And may i point out, (having actually read all of this thread), that the argument has been lost comprehensively by all those seeking to defend this terrible decision or the apologies for it.
And may i point out, (having actually read all of this thread), that the argument has been lost comprehensively by all those seeking to defend this terrible decision or the apologies for it.
without reading the whole thread, i would think usb 3.0 will solve alot of the problems once its implemented
Lack of Firewire in MacBooks
Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption.
So you have inferred from the lack of FW on the MB ithat Steve Jobs thinks that FW video is histroy?
Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption.
Thanks Ron, will USB 3.0 accept existing 3rd party firewire hardware so I can continue as though Firewire existed.
Waaah!
seriously i cannot read through all 81 pages of this pointless crying.
problem: Macbook Pro has 1 FW800 port
solution 1: buy a 3 port FW 400 expresscard.
solution 2: buy a 5 port FW 400 hub and a FW 800 to 400 cable.
solution 3: buy a MacPro Tower
seriously i cannot read through all 81 pages of this pointless crying.
problem: Macbook Pro has 1 FW800 port
solution 1: buy a 3 port FW 400 expresscard.
solution 2: buy a 5 port FW 400 hub and a FW 800 to 400 cable.
solution 3: buy a MacPro Tower