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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

cheesymogul said:
The priorities of serious users are quite different than those of fanboys and switchers. In the pro world it is often the peripherals that dictate the computer system, not the other way round...
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I couldn't agree more.

Unless there is newer technology to replace the FW option, they should just leave it in. If Apple had replaced it with the so-called newer USB3 or newer FW, or some other thing (Express Port)... fine. But as it is, all Apple did was just take away a feature without replacing it with anything else. And so, anyone who actually praises the omission of a feature as "forward thinking" is just plain nuts.

Apple should take its former motto to heart and "Think Different" and be open minded once again.
 
the Helix said:
Unless there is newer technology to replace the FW option, they should just leave it in. If Apple had replaced it with the so-called newer USB3 or newer FW, or some other thing (Express Port)... fine. But as it is, all Apple did was just take away a feature without replacing it with anything else. And so, anyone who actually praises the omission of a feature as "forward thinking" is just plain nuts.
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No newer technology other than FireWire will be acceptable as a substitute for FW for many years to come.
 
cheesymogul said:
Certainly not with HDV camcorders!
And even if it worked, it would be utterly stupid to downgrade the highdef material to analog just to get it into a Macbook.
Unfortunately HDV needs both, a fast processor AND firewire.

My next camcorder will either be the new Sony FX1000 or a Red Scarlet. The Sony has no USB at all and the Scarlet's card reader will most likely be FW800 like on their current models.
.
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Certainly it will not work with the HD Tape based cameras ( but of course will with HD flash or Hard disk cameras!!, which the consumer market is fast moving to) , or if it will you lose a lot of quality, no argument. The OP though, was talking about the more common issue of using an older MicroDV camera with lower quality to begin within.

HD Tape means you buy a Mac that does have FW, or some other notebook PC that better fits your needs.
 
Ehh who cares, my 5 year old PC desktop has it and I used it once I think because I couldn't find the USB cable to charge my iPod. Doesn't bother me at all that my new MBA doesn't come with firewall. Nothing except my iPod I own uses it, and even then I just use the USB anyways.
 
99MustangGTman said:
Ehh who cares, my 5 year old PC desktop has it and I used it once I think because I couldn't find the USB cable to charge my iPod. Doesn't bother me at all that my new MBA doesn't come with firewall. Nothing except my iPod I own uses it, and even then I just use the USB anyways.
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People who actually use their computer for more than connecting their iPod? I think you and the poster above you ought to read at least some of the posts in this thread. It might be an informative learning experience for you.
 
Tosser said:
People who actually use their computer for more than connecting their iPod? I think you and the poster above you ought to read at least some of the posts in this thread. It might be an informative learning experience for you.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. People do real work with Macs, even 'cheap' Macs.

I can't remember an issue that's been as universally prosecuted as the Firewire one. Maybe because it's Apple's own product and dropping it 'means' something.

This thread, however is becoming like the Mac Mini threads - Apple is never going to make a 'desirable' Mini or they'd lose iMac sales. The Mini will always be 'a day late and a dollar short'.

And it seems we can add the MacBook to that category as well, now. Protect the MacBook Pro, flush the MacBook.

Not a very appealing trend and frankly, I think it's time for Steve to have another holiday. NetBooks is another issue. MacBook Air is Apple's idea of a NetBook and well, it seems to be losing touch with the market. I think Steve's waiting until people are willing to pay $1200 for a tablet Touch Mac NetBook and then he'll have a product to sell...

Maybe they're too iPhone focussed or just plain greedy. And maybe it's a sign of the rich-getting-so-much-richer that Apple are leaving 'the rest of us' in the dirt and just making luxury items.

Steve shouldn't need a 'holiday'. He should be able to listen, but perhaps that's a personality thing... driven, genius, my-way-or-the-highway.

Steve's been shown the highway before. Maybe it will happen again.
 
After some 2000+ posts, what it really comes down to is that no arguments can justify the exclusion of firewire, because it costs almost nothing to include it, especially on a computer that starts @ $1299.

Because Apple offers so few models of any computers, in the past they generally included many ports, options on their standard computers, even the consumer models. In doing so, they could reasonably counter the expandability/flexibility desires of many of their customers.

This inclusion of many features is one reason their computers in general have costed more - you got more than on standard econo PCs. They still cost more, but now they are eliminating a port for no good reason and many people, some long time users are justifiably upset.
 
rickag said:
...Because Apple offers so few models of any computers, in the past they generally included many ports, options on their standard computers, even the consumer models. In doing so, they could reasonably counter the expandability/flexibility desires of many of their customers....
Click to expand...
I would take exception with the "more ports" statement. Apple laptops have never been known for an over-abundance of ports compared to their Widnows competitors, even at a small fraction of the cost. the Macbook for example only has 2 USB ports (never more that I know of) and almost all Windows laptops have at least 3. MB has only line in/headphone, where most others add a mic in at least. Only the MBP has an Express Card slot, but almost all windows laptops (even some $500 netbooks) have this item that the MB has always lacked. No, Apple has always been on the low end connectivity wise. The only exception has been 6-pin Firewire, but most all Windows laptops for the last several years have had the 4-pin variety.
 
albusseverus said:
Absolutely. People do real work with Macs, even 'cheap' Macs.

I can't remember an issue that's been as universally prosecuted as the Firewire one. Maybe because it's Apple's own product and dropping it 'means' something.

This thread, however is becoming like the Mac Mini threads - Apple is never going to make a 'desirable' Mini or they'd lose iMac sales. The Mini will always be 'a day late and a dollar short'.

And it seems we can add the MacBook to that category as well, now. Protect the MacBook Pro, flush the MacBook.

Not a very appealing trend and frankly, I think it's time for Steve to have another holiday. NetBooks is another issue. MacBook Air is Apple's idea of a NetBook and well, it seems to be losing touch with the market. I think Steve's waiting until people are willing to pay $1200 for a tablet Touch Mac NetBook and then he'll have a product to sell...

Maybe they're too iPhone focussed or just plain greedy. And maybe it's a sign of the rich-getting-so-much-richer that Apple are leaving 'the rest of us' in the dirt and just making luxury items.

Steve shouldn't need a 'holiday'. He should be able to listen, but perhaps that's a personality thing... driven, genius, my-way-or-the-highway.

Steve's been shown the highway before. Maybe it will happen again.
Click to expand...

Actually, the air is an Ultra-portable. A lighter notebook designed primarily for business travelers. A netbook is about halfway been a laptop and a handheld device.

danny_w said:
I would take exception with the "more ports" statement. Apple laptops have never been known for an over-abundance of ports compared to their Widnows competitors, even at a small fraction of the cost. the Macbook for example only has 2 USB ports (never more that I know of) and almost all Windows laptops have at least 3. MB has only line in/headphone, where most others add a mic in at least. Only the MBP has an Express Card slot, but almost all windows laptops (even some $500 netbooks) have this item that the MB has always lacked. No, Apple has always been on the low end connectivity wise. The only exception has been 6-pin Firewire, but most all Windows laptops for the last several years have had the 4-pin variety.
Click to expand...

4 and 6-pin firewire offer the same connection speed. The two pins that aren't used are for power.
 
rickag said:
This inclusion of many features is one reason their computers in general have costed more - you got more than on standard econo PCs. They still cost more, but now they are eliminating a port for no good reason and many people, some long time users are justifiably upset.
Click to expand...

And what is really sad is that now you can get those cheap, econo PC's with more ports and better specs than the $1299 MB.
 
danny_w said:
Yes, I realize that, and didn't mean to imply otherwise. However many people seem to think that the 4-pin variety is not "real" firewire. I beg to differ.
Click to expand...

Yeah, its alarming how many Mac users take things are face value and don't bother to learn about the technology in their computers.
 
editguy said:
And what is really sad is that now you can get those cheap, econo PC's with more ports and better specs than the $1299 MB.
Click to expand...

$1299? Puh-shaw! How about $549:

http://www.dell.com/content/product...inspiron-12?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=hmpgwn2&s=dhs

THREE usb2 ports. 3 in 1 Card reader. Line out. Mic In. 10/100 RJ45. VGA.

Granted its not as powerful as a macbook, and it also does not have firewire, but why is Apple limiting the ports? Ridiculous. We're not blind - we see the other machines out there (at a MUCH cheaper price). Let's go hog wild and spend an extra $100 bucks:

http://www.dell.com/content/product...ptop-inspiron-13?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

2 usb2. VGA. 10/100 RJ45. Line out. Mic In. 4-pin 1394. 54 mm ExpressCard. 8-in-1 Card Reader.

TWO of these laptops for the same price as one crippled fireless macbook. I don't even want to look up what I can get for $1299.

It'll be interesting to see how this Psystar thing goes.
 
albusseverus said:
Absolutely. People do real work with Macs, even 'cheap' Macs.

I can't remember an issue that's been as universally prosecuted as the Firewire one. Maybe because it's Apple's own product and dropping it 'means' something.

This thread, however is becoming like the Mac Mini threads - Apple is never going to make a 'desirable' Mini or they'd lose iMac sales. The Mini will always be 'a day late and a dollar short'.

And it seems we can add the MacBook to that category as well, now. Protect the MacBook Pro, flush the MacBook.

Not a very appealing trend and frankly, I think it's time for Steve to have another holiday. NetBooks is another issue. MacBook Air is Apple's idea of a NetBook and well, it seems to be losing touch with the market. I think Steve's waiting until people are willing to pay $1200 for a tablet Touch Mac NetBook and then he'll have a product to sell...

Maybe they're too iPhone focussed or just plain greedy. And maybe it's a sign of the rich-getting-so-much-richer that Apple are leaving 'the rest of us' in the dirt and just making luxury items.

Steve shouldn't need a 'holiday'. He should be able to listen, but perhaps that's a personality thing... driven, genius, my-way-or-the-highway.

Steve's been shown the highway before. Maybe it will happen again.
Click to expand...

Hehehe, Steve Jobs is going nowhere, bite on that. :p
 
Tosser said:
People who actually use their computer for more than connecting their iPod? I think you and the poster above you ought to read at least some of the posts in this thread. It might be an informative learning experience for you.
Click to expand...

you have no idea what you are talking about. Tons of kernel hackers and coders run os x and not lota them need FW.

Just cause we don't need FW doesnt mean we don't use it for serious work.
 
Compile 'em all said:
you have no idea what you are talking about. Tons of kernel hackers and coders run os x and not lota them need FW.

Just cause we don't need FW doesnt mean we don't use it for serious work.
Click to expand...

Calm down. He didn't say coders didn't do "serious work" -- you're being over sensitive. However, Tosser was pointing out the many people who do create (audio, video, etc.) do need Firewire. Regardless of whether or not a given coder may or may not see Firewire as a necessity, can you deny the point that some people (including those who create audio, video, etc.) do need Firewire?

There are many different types of people who create many different kinds of content. Everyone has different needs, etc. And while a given coder, or say even a journalist or writer might not "need" Firewire, having it would come in quite handy for backing up files rather than relying on (slower) USB, etc.
 
ateslik said:
$1299? Puh-shaw! How about $549:

http://www.dell.com/content/product...inspiron-12?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=hmpgwn2&s=dhs

THREE usb2 ports. 3 in 1 Card reader. Line out. Mic In. 10/100 RJ45. VGA.

Granted its not as powerful as a macbook, and it also does not have firewire, but why is Apple limiting the ports? Ridiculous. We're not blind - we see the other machines out there (at a MUCH cheaper price).
Click to expand...

Why would you get that netbook when you can buy a Lenovo IdeaPad S10 (which has an ExpressCard slot) for $399?
 
localoid said:
And while a given coder, or say even a journalist or writer might not "need" Firewire, having it would come in quite handy for backing up files rather than relying on (slower) USB, etc.
Click to expand...

Is this because that bad old USB2 is so vastly inferior to FW when writing to an external hard drive? Is your average user really going to notice a difference or even care?

Really I see some difference on my FW drives in transferring video and audio files, but that is it, and it is not exactly like moving that data via USB is painful or anything. I have time machine backups going to both FW drives and USB drives. For moving most files I can not see a difference.
 
I just received my new aluminum Macbook, so unfortunately, reluctantly, I did not vote with my dollars. I would have stuck with the Blackbook but my wife needs a laptop. I was torn between getting a refurbished Blackbook and a new MB, but I decided in favor of the performance upgrade. I don't like to support Apple's continuing policy of limiting technology choice in its computer products. If there were a 13" MBP I would pay the premium, but the smaller size is important to me. In the end, Firewire is not that important to me although I regret losing target disk mode. Although I'm going with the Macbook I'm still p*ssed at Apple for not offering the optimal combination of features, which is certainly within its power to do.
 
Firewire

Ive used alot of devices not one has been firewire im glad there taking it out because i would love to have another usb plug where my firewire is,and firewire in the macbook(white,black)is slower then usb 2.0 right??and fire wire is used for movie people right?
 
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