Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

jonnyb said:
I was just coming here to see if anyone else had seen that.

"New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind"

Smack!
Click to expand...

That statement is full of crap and it's coming from the CEO of the MOST proprietary company on this planet.

Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about HTML5. He wants the Internet reproduced in iPhone OS-only apps with the AppStore being the only portal to the web.

Apple are not interested in any open standards, otherwise their development tools would actually use and implement open standards and they would also run on other platforms. Because, you know, -- that -- is the nature of open standards: They don't care for a specific platform, they run everywhere. And everybody can implement them.

There are open source implementations of the Flash player out there. But the world is still waiting for the first open standard coming from Apple that everybody can use and implement.
 
Winni said:
That statement is full of crap and it's coming from the CEO of the MOST proprietary company on this planet.
Click to expand...

Ever hear of a company called Microsoft? Obviously not, or you would not go around making uninformed statements like that.
 
Winni said:
That statement is full of crap and it's coming from the CEO of the MOST proprietary company on this planet.

Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about HTML5. He wants the Internet reproduced in iPhone OS-only apps with the AppStore being the only portal to the web.

Apple are not interested in any open standards, otherwise their development tools would actually use and implement open standards and they would also run on other platforms. Because, you know, -- that -- is the nature of open standards: They don't care for a specific platform, they run everywhere. And everybody can implement them.

There are open source implementations of the Flash player out there. But the world is still waiting for the first open standard coming from Apple that everybody can use and implement.
Click to expand...

Umm, Winni. Microsoft has the least concern about adhering to internet standards. I have to make an entirely separate CSS file, just for IE!
 
-SD- said:
Microsoft has decided to have their say on the matter, and they agree with Apple
Click to expand...

quote:

"...however, is in describing Flash as an important part of "a good consumer experience on today's web," primarily because it's difficult for the typical consumer to access Flash-free content..."

Future? Let it come to us naturally whenever it decides to do that...

Until then, I live HERE and NOW...

:)
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
quote:

"...however, is in describing Flash as an important part of "a good consumer experience on today's web," primarily because it's difficult for the typical consumer to access Flash-free content..."

Future? Let it come to us naturally whenever it decides to do that...

Until then, I live HERE and NOW...

:)
Click to expand...

And until that day comes, Flash is still here to stay. Worry not.

We're in a transition and it will take quite some time for the web to switch over, but Flash isn't going away in one day, it will take time. It's the best way for it to happen - you can't all of a sudden just switch things off (Flash) and then on (HTML5 or perhaps HTML + Silverlight?<wry grin>).
 
supercaliber said:
I own an iPad, yes i knew it didn't support flash when i bought it. That does not mean I wasn't disappointed when the rubber met the road and I found out how many sites are not supported with the iPad. There were A LOT. I will list them all if you bashers want to go to war.

Here is my take:

Jobs points 1,2,3,4,6 are complete, mostly nerd-based or pure propaganda BS. They are meaningless issues to me and my family. MEANINGLESS.

1. Open - Who cares, i don't know what it means and I don't care, i have been on open or unopened computers for the past 25 years of my life, never knowing or caring about the difference.

2. Full web:

Jobs argument is there are many, many sites that work on the iPad. Well i have many that don't, its just a BS sales pitch. Pure BS.

3. Reliability, security and performance:

Like my apple never crashes, and I suppose that every flash site should be avoided. Give me a break. Again just FUD. As for performance, give me a nice switch called 'No Flash'

4. Battery life - Again give me a switch called 'No flash', 90% of the time I don't need 10 hours anyway. SOOO MUCH BS. Its like the government deciding that they know whats good for me and will force me into compliance with their world view. Makes me sick.

5. Touch compatibility - The only legitimate issue on the list. But guess WHAT!!!! Figure out how to support roll over!!!! Its not Flash's fault that touch is limited in its features. Guess What again!!!! I like the feature-rich mouse and cursor. Are you saying the iPad will never support similar features. Guess what again!!! If i try and use flash that requires roll over, i will learn it doesn't work very well on the Ipad and stop doing it. Guess what again!!! Most flash sites I frequent don't care about roll over, and neither do I!!!

6. Third party run amok - FUD to the extreme. Yeah third parties mucking up the experience is less than ideal. Oh but wait, that has been our lives for 25 years, so it must not be that bad. Give me a break. Only the purity of Apple governed software development is fit for my consumption????? Apple, the great filter of our time. If Apple has Christened Thee then Thou are HOLY!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! I am starting to think that my Apple Dollars have only fed the ego of the Holy one. I would not be surprised if all Apple products start being shipped with an image of the almighty enlightened CEO etched on the back of every device, etched on my ear buds, etched in the glass of my iPhone, etched in a hologram inside of every white apple.
.
Click to expand...

That's just good sense....Too bad you, me and other have to pay for all the other stupid iSheep.
 
Augure said:
That's just good sense....Too bad you, me and other have to pay for all the other stupid iSheep.
Click to expand...

Indeed!

But not anymore...

Only, and I mean THE ONLY Apple product still worth my money is OS X.

I will stick with it until something better comes along via, most probably, hackintosh as soon as my MBP is due for replacement...

Otherwise, SJ won't be getting any more pennies from me that is for sure!

Had more than enough of his BS - so enough is enough :)
 
I think it's very instructive that the newest preview release of Adobe Flash 10.1 for the Mac--codenamed Gala--which runs in conjunction with certain nVidia chipsets show remarkable improvements in speed and lower resource usage compared to previous versions. This proves you can address the hardware performance issues Jobs mentioned, especially when the final version of Flash 10.1 probably ships in June 2010.

I personally believe that Jobs doesn't want Flash for another reason: it would effectively undercut the App Store, and he wants exclusivity through the iTunes App Store on what runs on the iPhone and iPad. Alas, this--in my opinion!--may be coming real close to violating the exclusivity clauses of the Sherman and Clayton Antitrust Acts.
 
Every Adobe product I have tried has been mehhhhhhhhhhh. Acrobat anyone?


A lazy, bloated and ineffective company to the core.
 
Guys, a friend of mine used pirate thing to put the flash on his Iphone and his iphone battery life went on half the time it was supposed. This was so irritating that he was forced to reformat the entire iphone again and last thing said that Flash was Bulls***!

Of course this was a business decision. Apple faced the dilemma for their small mobile devices (Iphone, Ipod Touch and Ipad) of provide the devices that battery life is reduced, which leaded to unhappy costumers due to battery life or not selling enough devices as Apple wanted or take the support of flash and hand devices that battery life at leats lasts as long apple could provide.

With that said, also read some people stating some mind blogging stuff. To be honest Flash had its prime, you can do things today CSS that you don't need flash for anything. Also programming in Flash is a nightmare, people trust me. Do you know how many sub layers you need to go to create a button for web page? Do you know that using Dreamweaver you can create a dynamic button, you need to create one to three (or more) images and you have dynamic button?

Flash as it stands seriously outdated and Adobe really needs to revolutionary flash once again. Once it achieve that prime again, maybe Apple will admit that Flash has come a long way and insert them in their devices, but as is, people that want flash on apple small mobile devices can continue to dream.
 
Why are people confusing open WEB CONTENT with the the os?

seriously? the iPhone/iPad platform is NOT comparable to flash. it simply is NOT comparable. Does the iphone platform serve the same function as FLASH as a platform? NO. HTML / CSS / Javascript are all VALID things to compare flash with. complain about the closed nature of OTHER apple products ELSEWHERE.

I wouldn't be so up in arms about it if uninformed people weren't reading it and taking it as a valid comparison.

the counter one might pose is that adobe tried to position flash to develop for he iphone. fair enough...my counter is that flash never genuinely had that functionality (yes, yes, because the iphone platform is closed--we agree on that) and, were it not for this dispute, adobe probably would not have considered it.
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
You are right to certain extent...

But you are missing some MAJOR points of this letter...

1. He is not telling the truth
Click to expand...

Can you name one lie in his statement? As opposed to a statement of opinion that you disagree with.

2. He is treating ALL his customers as fools by not allowing FREEDOM OF CHOICE
Click to expand...

Freedom of choice? How is choice being denied? Buy the product he is selling or don't. It's a pretty straightforward choice. There are many alternatives.

Simply let your customers DECIDE what they want to run on the device they paid for... Be that app, or some video, or some site...
Click to expand...

That's one way to run a company. Apple chooses a different way.

FREEDOM!
Click to expand...

Does not only apply to customers.

Such simple and extremely important single frekn word that he is stumping all over for the sake of his own draconian gains...

THIS is the major point!
Click to expand...

Of course, you are advocating doing the same thing to Apple's freedom.

Winni said:
That statement is full of crap and it's coming from the CEO of the MOST proprietary company on this planet.
Click to expand...

A company that contributes to hundreds of open source projects. And is supporting open standards over proprietary solutions in this statement.

Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about HTML5. He wants the Internet reproduced in iPhone OS-only apps with the AppStore being the only portal to the web.
Click to expand...

Which is evidenced by development of the most standards compliant browser in the mobile market?

Apple are not interested in any open standards, otherwise their development tools would actually use and implement open standards and they would also run on other platforms. Because, you know, -- that -- is the nature of open standards: They don't care for a specific platform, they run everywhere. And everybody can implement them.
Click to expand...

You can support open standards in some areas and not in others without being a hypocrite.

There are open source implementations of the Flash player out there.
Click to expand...

There are open source projects to play SWF files. The most popular having he functionality of Flash 7 (and pieces of 8 and 9). The Flash Player is closed and proprietary.

But the world is still waiting for the first open standard coming from Apple that everybody can use and implement.
Click to expand...

You mean like webkit? Canvas? And hundreds more?
http://www.apple.com/opensource/
 
He's never seen Flash implemented well on a mobile device? Maybe he should look further then, because Flash works quite well on most Snapdragon devices.. HTC HD2, HTC Desire, HTC Incredible (< this one is an assumption seeing as it's the Desire on steroids).

And at the end of the day, no matter how bad Flash (which I agree with > Flash is quite a hideous technology) is.. people should be able to install it if they want to.

Apple are a dictatorship.
 
matttye said:
Apple are a dictatorship.
Click to expand...

While conveniently forgetting that it takes a major (Work phones would get something like s 2 hour reduction) toll on battery life and doesn't even support all of the features of its desktop variant.

If I'm going to indulge myself on a polished turd, I might as well enjoy the entire experience.
 
MorphingDragon said:
While conveniently forgetting that it takes a major (Work phones would get something like s 2 hour reduction) toll on battery life and doesn't even support all of the features of its desktop variant.

If I'm going to indulge myself on a polished turd, I might as well enjoy the entire experience.
Click to expand...

If I want to install a battery hogging, bloated piece of crapware, then why cant I? Just because Apple make the device does not mean they should have a say in what their customers install once they've purchased it.

Apple should stop being gatekeepers and just concentrate on what they're good at: making good hardware and software.

And Flash isn't *that* bad on battery life on my HTC Desire. It obviously has an effect, but so does streaming video from anywhere.
 
BaldiMac said:
Can you name one lie in his statement? As opposed to a statement of opinion that you disagree with.



Freedom of choice? How is choice being denied? Buy the product he is selling or don't. It's a pretty straightforward choice. There are many alternatives.



That's one way to run a company. Apple chooses a different way.



Does not only apply to customers.



Of course, you are advocating doing the same thing to Apple's freedom.



A company that contributes to hundreds of open source projects. And is supporting open standards over proprietary solutions in this statement.



Which is evidenced by development of the most standards compliant browser in the mobile market?



You can support open standards in some areas and not in others without being a hypocrite.



There are open source projects to play SWF files. The most popular having he functionality of Flash 7 (and pieces of 8 and 9). The Flash Player is closed and proprietary.



You mean like webkit? Canvas? And hundreds more?
http://www.apple.com/opensource/
Click to expand...

Since it is obvious that you cant even read what people post on the forums I will simply copy / paste my post from PREVIOUS page which highlights all the things Steve LIES, yes LIES about:


First of all SJ said nothing new in his letter - it is just same old bullcrap he's been publicly talking about for quite some time...

2nd, not only that SJ is major bullcraper but he is blatant LIER and hypocrite too.

1.- Openness: Flash is a proprietary product, making it a closed system. While Apple also offers proprietary products, it believes that all web standards should be open. Jobs points to Apple's support of open standards such HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, as well as its own contributions to open source projects such as WebKit.

I believe he never heard of Flex which is as open as open can be... Next to this, how dare he talking about "closed" platform when Apple software and genral business attitude is as closed as closed can be...


2. "The Full Web": One of Adobe's arguments is that a lack of Flash compatibility prevents Apple mobile devices from accessing "the full web" because 75% of video in that format. Jobs counters that almost all of this video is available in the more modern H.264 format and viewable on iPhone OS devices. He also points to the YouTube application and a list of other sources all offering video in iPhone-compatible formats. With respect to Flash-based games, Jobs concedes that the iPhone is unable to play them, but notes that there are over 50,000 game and entertainment titles on the App Store, many of which are free.

Full web is video and games!?!?!?! Errmm... Steve, there is bit more on the web than that. By the way - Adobe has demonstrated number of times in recent months how Flash video runs on mobile platforms!


3. Reliability, Security, and Performance: Jobs points to a Symantec study showing Flash having one of the worst security records last year and notes that Flash is the #1 reason Macs crash. While Apple has been working with Adobe to address these issues, the problems remain. Jobs also claims that Apple has yet to see Flash performing well on any mobile device, something it has repeatedly asked Adobe to demonstrate.

Another bullcrap... Adobe demonstrated Flash on mobile devices and while performance on desktops can be improved it is far from being as bad as he presents it... Perhaps trully working with Adobe and giving some APIs might help!? Perhaps...


4. Battery Life: Long battery life essentially requires hardware decoding of formats such as H.264, but most Flash website continue to use older decoders that must run in software, crippling battery life for mobile devices.


Another lie... Adobe proved that there is no major hit on battery life, and after all, why not let your customers decide and worry about it... When I play NOVA on iPod Touch (arguably one of the best games made for the device) my battery drains flat after about 1hr of usage. So frekn what!?!?! It is my decision to play NOVA and keep an eye on battery just like it would be to run Flash video or Flash app...


5. Touch: Interactive Flash content is mouse-driven and not easily compatible with Apple's touch-driven iPhone OS. Jobs argues that developers who need to rewrite their Flash websites to support touch anyway should look to more modern technologies like those supported by Apple.


Steve should have better things to worry about and he should let developers worry about how to solve this issue...


6. Flash as a Third-Party Development Tool: Jobs outlines Apple's arguments against allowing developers to create iPhone applications using Flash or other third-party development tools, citing sub-standard performance and a reliance on those third parties to adopt changes and improvements. Apple wants developers building directly on iPhone OS for the best experience possible.

LOL! So awesome objective-c standard of various Fart Apps can't possibly be matched with Flash! Hahahahahaha!

90% of stuff on App store is nothing short of joke and "substandard" while it's been demonstrated numerous of times in recent months that Flash is more than capable of exporting decent apps for the device... In short - yet another lie...


In any case, thanks for this letter Steve - you just proved what many have suspected and already knew...

You are hypocrite, lier and above all draconian control freak who simply cant understand what "freedom of choice" for your customers means...


You won't see another penny from me and I am positive from many others too!
 
matttye said:
He's never seen Flash implemented well on a mobile device? Maybe he should look further then, because Flash works quite well on most Snapdragon devices.. HTC HD2, HTC Desire, HTC Incredible (< this one is an assumption seeing as it's the Desire on steroids).
Click to expand...
That's not full flash, it's Flash Lite, and it certain doesn't give them "the full internet". Even Adobe admits this.

What's in Flash Lite can be done with H.264 (which is already the underlying codec of most Flash video on the Internet today). You can't use Flash Lite to play games or see animated websites or anything else that requires a timeline.

Thanks for playing...

-=XX=-Nephilim said:
You won't see another penny from me and I am positive from many others too!
Click to expand...
Buh bye, rantboy.
 
John.B said:
That's not full flash, it's Flash Lite, and it certain doesn't give them "the full internet". Even Adobe admits this.

What's in Flash Lite can be done with H.264 (which is already the underlying codec of most Flash video on the Internet today). You can't use Flash Lite to play games or see animated websites or anything else that requires a timeline.

Thanks for playing...
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't seen the video on youtube of some guy playing Farmville on Facebook with his N1.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back