Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

[supercaliber]

Time to sue! I want restitution!

If you support Jobs in his rant, you are telling the world you have no common sense. There is zero justification in not providing some way to play flash content. Make it an option to turn on, its that simple.

I want to file a class action suit against Apple for not supporting flash. I have been harmed. I want restitution. Apple has lied to me and they continue to perpetuate their lies in rants like the one Steve Job published.

Attorneys out there send me a note, I want to get this suit rolling today!

 

[russ99]

Steve has some good points, but he's quite hypocritical about "open" products.

But the real issue here is that nobody is going to create rich media in HTML5 without some kind of development platform.

No designer/animator I know is going to hand-code animations, transitions or interfaces in markup language. That's going back to the dark ages of 1993.

If Apple wants single-target app development for their devices, maybe they need to take the lead on an Objective-C/HTML5 visual development platform apps - like Flash.

The backlash at the WWDC over this should be really interesting...

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

This should clear a few things up...

http://jessewarden.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-on-flash-correcting-the-lies.html

Hey!

Thanks for posting this!

Cool blog and post for sure...

I mean anyone who isn't blind as **** can see through SJ letter and realise that is made out of utter BS and blatant lies!

Glad I am not the only one calling him FREKN LIER!

 

[hayesk]

But the real issue here is that nobody is going to create rich media in HTML5 without some kind of development platform.

No designer/animator I know is going to hand-code animations, transitions or interfaces in markup language. That's going back to the dark ages of 1993.

If Apple wants single-target app development for their devices, maybe they need to take the lead on an Objective-C/HTML5 visual development platform apps - like Flash.

And Jobs suggested Adobe make an HTML visual development platform - it's a great product opportunity. If Adobe doesn't, someone will.

The backlash at the WWDC over this should be really interesting...

Every year people product a backlash at WWDC over something, and every year there is no backlash. Why, because the people that go to WWDC are professional developer paying to go there to learn things, not to rant about feature requests like teenagers on rumor site forums.

 

[Augure]

So? Are people of the tech community as stupid as common people or can we make truth a winner ?

HTML5 is for sure an interesting alternative for Flash but:
1. It's not a ready standard and it works well only on Safari and Chrome: 8% of browser ie. 8% of user can use it.
2. About 70% of videos, 90% of games and millions of website are in Flash.
AND IT SHOULD BE ENOUGH

But either you're intelligent and possess a basic good sense, either you're stupid and let's push further
3. You can't do half what you can do on Flash, with HTML5
4. HTML5 demos are as batterie and CPU demanding as Flash
5. HTML5 content is open and integrated in the browser, the same way the Preview PDF reader is integrated in the OS, and this is the only reason why it's faster.
IT SHOULD PUT SOME PERSPECTIVE ON HTML5

Some perspectives on Apple:
6. Almost every other modern mobile device and PCs are compatible with Flash/Flash Lite and I've haven't heard about major and repeated issues
7. Flash has made a lot of improvement on compatibility such as Blu-ray. Macs with Blu-ray players do not exists.
8. Iphone is not compatible with Flash, it's battery sucks already. Android or HTC are compatible with Flash and have better batteries..

SO DEFINITELY NO! THERE ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO USE APPLE AND THEIR PRODUCTS AND THERE ARE STUPID PEOPLE WHO GET USED BY APPLE...

 

[WilliamLondon]

If you support Jobs in his rant, you are telling the world you have no common sense. There is zero justification in not providing some way to play flash content. Make it an option to turn on, its that simple.

I want to file a class action suit against Apple for not supporting flash. I have been harmed. I want restitution. Apple has lied to me and they continue to perpetuate their lies in rants like the one Steve Job published.

Attorneys out there send me a note, I want to get this suit rolling today!

Bwahahahaha. You jest, right?

So? Are people of the tech community as stupid as common people or can we make truth a winner ?...SO DEFINITELY NO! THERE ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO USE APPLE AND THEIR PRODUCTS AND THERE ARE STUPID PEOPLE WHO GET USED BY APPLE...

Ever heard of a Venn Diagram? Apply that and a bit of civility and perhaps you might have a position you can argue, until then I'd steer clear of discussion and argument because all you are demonstrating is your ability to throw around illogical, offensive statements.

I used to work for a web design company, and we built big sites for big companies. Our designers and programmers never ever used Flash. If the client wanted something in Flash, they went to an agency. If they wanted something more, they came to us.

I can't tell you how many sites we rebuilt to get them out of the Flash lock-in, and every time they were thrilled to leave behind that substandard environment.

There are options that have nothing to do with Flash.

 

[Augure]

I used to work for a web design company, and we built big sites for big companies. Our designers and programmers never ever used Flash. If the client wanted something in Flash, they went to an agency. If they wanted something more, they came to us.

I can't tell you how many sites we rebuilt to get them out of the Flash lock-in, and every time they were thrilled to leave behind that substandard environment.

There are options that have nothing to do with Flash.

Were your website created with webkit ? Or HTML5 ? Were your website totally Video, Animation and Advertising free ?

 

[sighlent]

So? Are people of the tech community as stupid as common people or can we make truth a winner ?

HTML5 is for sure an interesting alternative for Flash but:
1. It's not a ready standard and it works well only on Safari and Chrome: 8% of browser ie. 8% of user can use it.
2. About 70% of videos, 90% of games and millions of website are in Flash.
AND IT SHOULD BE ENOUGH

But either you're intelligent and possess a basic good sense, either you're stupid and let's push further
3. You can't do half what you can do on Flash, with HTML5
4. HTML5 demos are as batterie and CPU demanding as Flash
5. HTML5 content is open and integrated in the browser, the same way the Preview PDF reader is integrated in the OS, and this is the only reason why it's faster.
IT SHOULD PUT SOME PERSPECTIVE ON HTML5

Some perspectives on Apple:
6. Almost every other modern mobile device and PCs are compatible with Flash/Flash Lite and I've haven't heard about major and repeated issues
7. Flash has made a lot of improvement on compatibility such as Blu-ray. Macs with Blu-ray players do not exists.
8. Iphone is not compatible with Flash, it's battery sucks already. Android or HTC are compatible with Flash and have better batteries..

SO DEFINITELY NO! THERE ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO USE APPLE AND THEIR PRODUCTS AND THERE ARE STUPID PEOPLE WHO GET USED BY APPLE...

I don't know where you got your stats from, but Firefox and Opera support HTML5 and (most of) CSS3. IE is still the only browser lagging, but IE9 is supposed to catch up. However IE support for the canvas tag is still questionable.

 

[SAPPete]

I can't tell you how many sites we rebuilt to get them out of the Flash lock-in, and every time they were thrilled to leave behind that substandard environment.

I'm calling BS on that one. "Big companies" that had "big websites" built by some outside source were "thrilled" to get rid of Flash ??
If a "big company" choses to have a third party built them a website, they care about the look and feel and user experience, not what tool was used to build it.

 

[WilliamLondon]

I'm calling BS on that one. "Big companies" that had "big websites" built by some outside source were "thrilled" to get rid of Flash ??
If a "big company" choses to have a third party built them a website, they care about the look and feel and user experience, not what tool was used to build it.

You can call BS on it, but you'd be wasting your breath, and you'd be wrong at the same time. Double whammy!

Perhaps the first time the site was built (in Flash) they didn't care about the tool used, but the second time they sure did.

User experience and look and feel being paramount - do you realise how many companies out there have no idea what that means? I'm talking big companies. It'd sure be nice if they all put that at the top of the list regarding web site design, but the fact of the matter is, many, many need to be educated and taken on a journey into user experience.

I'm not wrong on this, I've got lots of experience that says they are not all so good in understanding these concepts (i.e. user experience and look and feel).

 

[BaldiMac]

Since it is obvious that you cant even read what people post on the forums I will simply copy / paste my post from PREVIOUS page which highlights all the things Steve LIES, yes LIES about:...

Please avoid using personal insults and reposting the same exact same thing.

You did not point out a single lie in that whole rant. The only thing that you attempted to call a lie was his claim about battery life which was obviously true. Hardware decoding is more efficient than software decoding.

If you support Jobs in his rant, you are telling the world you have no common sense. There is zero justification in not providing some way to play flash content. Make it an option to turn on, its that simple.

I want to file a class action suit against Apple for not supporting flash. I have been harmed. I want restitution. Apple has lied to me and they continue to perpetuate their lies in rants like the one Steve Job published.

Attorneys out there send me a note, I want to get this suit rolling today!

What would your claim be? That Apple refused to write the software that you want them to write?

Steve has some good points, but he's quite hypocritical about "open" products.

Where is the hypocrisy? Openness is important to them with respect to the web. It is not important in other areas. Seems pretty reasonable. I use an open product (Firefox) to browse the web and closed products (Windows, OS X) for my OS. Does that make me a hypocrite?

 

[josh1231]

If by having 2 small problems, (to which Apple always gets a fix out or extends the guarantee) then maybe you should switch to a PC, then you will be able to see some real problems...I have had SOOOOO many devices with problems, all of which I have been given a solution by my actual MacBook Pro has extra cover for the faulty graphic card, (so far without any issues)

They always get a fix out after denying the problem for 4 months.

REAL CASE SITUATIONS.

In my place of work EVERYONE who has a DELL laptop has had to have their motherboard and/or hard-drive changed. (There was a joke, that maybe the company should make a table available for the Dell tech guy as he spend SOOOO much time there )

EVERYONE who has a HP ProBook has had to have the motherboard changed due to issues with the graphic card, and silly USB dock station not working..

Mac users (to which some are still using iMac G5's WITHOUT problems) the only major problems are USER problems.

Agreed that are NOT what they where, and although the quality is still high, customer care has taken a blow. (also there are higher sales volumes to take into account) etc. etc.

I have personally had several Dell computers and laptops, and my brother was a huge HP user until he switched to MAC, never had a hardware problem with any of them, so you can remove the EVERYONE from your post

I fully understand your reasoning behind the changed. I actually made the changed (lasted 16 days) 5 different laptops, Vista ultimate, XP, even a beta of Windows 7, even bought a touch screen laptop...but sold the PC that I had kept for less than half it's retail price...and bought a MBP for 2300 euros. and even though my MBP has issues with the graphic card.. WOULD NOT TRY WINDOWS again in my life!!! those 16 days were the worst days of my life. driver hell, virus, malware. 30Gb of junk programs. crappy OS. hard drives not working due to Mac format. could not workout how to configure Time Capsule.. Air Tunes stopped working. had to reformat iPhone and iPods, due to Widows format. TV did not sync, El Gato TV did not work, Apple keyboard and Mouse not working (obvious reasons jejeej) no fiber optic output on the PC to connect to my stereo. VGA connection on PC and only have a TV and monitor with DVI. the list of problems goes on.

If you can't get your PC to work, it's because you don't understand how to use it. I couldn't operate a Solaris workstation properly, that doesn't mean its junk, it means I don't understand it and need to do some reading.

If you do switch take into account your inversion. ALLOT of things just to not work on a PC.


Good luck... (no sarcasm intended, just a opnion from someone who made the switch to PC from Mac)

p.s.

I have never owed a PC in my life!! so yes it was a big deal, and yes I was pisse* with Apple hence the change..

BUT!!! with all s negative things, they are STILL one of if not THE best computer maker in my eyes...

You're kind of buying into the hype of the MAC VS PC debate. I was a PC user until 2 years ago. I cannot do anything on a MAC I couldn't do on a PC, and Vice Versa. My MAC's have crashed on several occassions, and so have my PC's. I have had a couple of PC's go bad, same with MAC (though it didn't go bad, it came bad). I stay with MAC for the simple reason you state, which is resale value. Unfortunately most people don't know the difference between an I7, I5, I3, Core2, etc, so buying a PC on ebay is confusing. This confusion causes a less than stellar resale value because people look at GHZ, RAM, and hard drive. You could probably sell a Pentium D 2.8 with 1tb hard drive, 4gb ram, for the same price as the I5 counterpart (I know, overexxageration, but not by much).

Because there are 2 Imac 27's, people are not confused about which is which, so people pay higher prices. I upgrade every single time there's a refresh, so it makes sense for me to stay with MAC.

I won't need good luck to switch to a PC. Unless you're an idiot who downloads adware, or visits sites that expose you to malware, a PC will run perfectly well.

I'm not ready to switch yet, but the quality problems and the statement about flash are getting me there.

 

[womble2k2]

I totally agree with SJ on this one.

I can often tell when a webpage has Flash due to the sudden hit on my CPU which slows things down, and making my MBP get hot.

I've experimented with Flash blockers and find the web browsing experience is much better without it.

It's a processor hog, closed standard and not suitable for mobile devices.

The days are counting down until we can finally say, Adobe Flash R.I.P.

Phil

 

[John.B]

Please avoid using personal insults and reposting the same exact same thing.

I think our antediluvian friend needs a vacation...

 

[lilo777]

And now comes an interesting twist to this story...

According to this CNET article, new e-mail from Steve Jobs indicates that Apple and Microsoft could be preparing to challenge the validity of open-source video codecs for h.264. I smell hypocrisy. Do you?

 

[cmaier]

According to this CNET article, new e-mail from Steve Jobs indicates that Apple and Microsoft could be preparing to challenge the validity of open-source video codecs for h.264. I smell hypocrisy. Do you?

No. Jobs and microsoft are not preparing to challenge ogg. They are referring exactly to the thing I have referred to in multiple threads - it is well known in the legal community that there are a ton of patents on codecs that could be applied against Ogg, and that there appears to be some party (a troll) preparing to sue anyone who actually manages to make money with Ogg (so far no one has). Gruber has also referred to this in the past.

The point Jobs and MS are making is that h.264, at least, has been vetted for patents (though there are suits against h.264 all the time), and most of the relevant patents are pooled and freely licensed. The fact that Ogg is open source does NOT mean it doesn't violate any of the same patents that people are suing h.264 about.

 

[Hal Itosis]

That statement is full of crap and it's coming from the CEO of the MOST proprietary company on this planet.

Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about HTML5. He wants the Internet reproduced in iPhone OS-only apps with the AppStore being the only portal to the web.

Wrong, not the "only portal to the web"... rather, the most popular portal with the best wares.

You are spreading FUD because you're very confused. There's nothing wrong with a company or a platform or an online store being based on "proprietary" components. If users don't like the iTunes business model they are FREE to choose some other store (or platform/company, etc).

The issue of "openness" is of primary concern where standards apply to the Internet as a whole. This is where you (and others) are displaying your lack of comprehension... by conflating the concept of open standards on the web with whatever some OS or online store choses to allow. Those are two different entities entirely.

What... did you expect Mac OS X to be designed to be easily installed on any old hardware? Are you daft man?!?! Mac OS X may be based on FreeBSD, but never intended to be some fully "open" platform overall. Selling hardware is the heart of Apple's income. Get real (or get Linux). You think AppStore apps should instantly run on a 'droid? Sure. Maybe Apple should help Adobe fix Flash... so Google can sell even more phones. [i don't know what parallel universe you're living in, but things don't work that way here.]

Apple are not interested in any open standards, otherwise their development tools would actually use and implement open standards and they would also run on other platforms. Because, you know, -- that -- is the nature of open standards: They don't care for a specific platform, they run everywhere. And everybody can implement them.

There are open source implementations of the Flash player out there. But the world is still waiting for the first open standard coming from Apple that everybody can use and implement.

Again, you're just broadcasting ignorance by conflating the term "open standards" as if it's some sort of universal ointment that can be rubbed on anything. Apple (like Microsoft) is free to choose what aspects of technology its OS and/or online store permits or denies. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. But: there is only *ONE* web... so users can't go to some other Internet, if the video/animation design protocols on this one are funky.

HERE IS PROOF of the matter

The entire basis of these stupid arguments revolve around one basic ingredient: "Apple does blah blah blah" (or "Steve Jobs says blah blah blah" ). Well guess what... it's not only Apple/Jobs who says that Flash as a video delivery "standard" is a steaming pile of proprietary poo-poo:

• Free Software Foundation

So, i suggest you and your minions head on over to the Free Software Foundation and spam their forums with all your tripe about Flash... because they too want it to die, like the pig it is.

Why are people confusing open WEB CONTENT with the the os?

seriously? the iPhone/iPad platform is NOT comparable to flash. it simply is NOT comparable. Does the iphone platform serve the same function as FLASH as a platform? NO. HTML / CSS / Javascript are all VALID things to compare flash with. complain about the closed nature of OTHER apple products ELSEWHERE.

I wouldn't be so up in arms about it if uninformed people weren't reading it and taking it as a valid comparison.

Exactly. These wankers throw out words like "hypocrite" like it's going out of style, yet they're so clueless as to the distinction between those differing aspects. Either they're totally confused, or we have some Adobe shills in here masquerading as idiots.

Cool blog and post for sure...

I mean anyone who isn't blind as *** can see through SJ letter and realise that is made out of utter BS and blatant lies!

Glad I am not the only one calling him FREKN LIER!

Let me guess... you're about 17 and live in Romania somewhere? Whether you realize it or not, you're embarrassing yourself. The notion that you have thought out what's good for Apple and its users better than Steve Jobs has is probably the funniest joke of the century. You can't even spell the word liar.

Please show me a link to PCWorld or ComputerWorld or CNET or ArsTechnica or some site where the writers have two brain cells to rub together that are spewing the sort of nonsense you're peddling. I know there are a couple of weasels here and there who are spamming forums with unintelligent drivel... but show me one real technical author's article which backs up your confused perspective.

Hurry up. I get the feeling you're on almost everyone's ignore list at this point.

 

[lilo777]

No. Jobs and microsoft are not preparing to challenge ogg. They are referring exactly to the thing I have referred to in multiple threads - it is well known in the legal community that there are a ton of patents on codecs that could be applied against Ogg, and that there appears to be some party (a troll) preparing to sue anyone who actually manages to make money with Ogg (so far no one has). Gruber has also referred to this in the past.

The point Jobs and MS are making is that h.264, at least, has been vetted for patents (though there are suits against h.264 all the time), and most of the relevant patents are pooled and freely licensed. The fact that Ogg is open source does NOT mean it doesn't violate any of the same patents that people are suing h.264 about.

You still do not believe me that Steve Jobs is a hypocrite?

 

[cmaier]

You still do not believe me that Steve Jobs is a hypocrite?

Hypocrisy implies inconsistency. He's a consistent bastard.

 

[lilo777]

Hypocrisy implies inconsistency. He's a consistent bastard.

OK, I can live with this.

 

[gavin83209]

First of all SJ said nothing new in his letter - it is just same old bullcrap he's been publicly talking about for quite some time...

2nd, not only that SJ is major bullcraper but he is blatant LIER and hypocrite too.

Spelling never was your strong point, was it? Kind of hard to take you seriously if you call somebody a "lier."

1.- Openness: Flash is a proprietary product, making it a closed system. While Apple also offers proprietary products, it believes that all web standards should be open. Jobs points to Apple's support of open standards such HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, as well as its own contributions to open source projects such as WebKit.

I believe he never heard of Flex which is as open as open can be... Next to this, how dare he talking about "closed" platform when Apple software and genral business attitude is as closed as closed can be...

That's an SDK, not the environment itself. Hence, closed. Until some random company is allowed to build their own Flash compiler, it will remain closed source.

2. "The Full Web": One of Adobe's arguments is that a lack of Flash compatibility prevents Apple mobile devices from accessing "the full web" because 75% of video in that format. Jobs counters that almost all of this video is available in the more modern H.264 format and viewable on iPhone OS devices. He also points to the YouTube application and a list of other sources all offering video in iPhone-compatible formats. With respect to Flash-based games, Jobs concedes that the iPhone is unable to play them, but notes that there are over 50,000 game and entertainment titles on the App Store, many of which are free.

Full web is video and games!?!?!?! Errmm... Steve, there is bit more on the web than that. By the way - Adobe has demonstrated number of times in recent months how Flash video runs on mobile platforms!

And what more is there? Video, audio, games and text. Three of those are commonly done with HTML and some games are done in HTML/Javascript. DSiCade is a good proof of concept, though not desktop optimized. These work just fine in regular HTML on the Nintendo DSi's 133 MHz processor. I doubt any Flash equivalent would work anything near as well. (Should work on iPhones as well)

3. Reliability, Security, and Performance: Jobs points to a Symantec study showing Flash having one of the worst security records last year and notes that Flash is the #1 reason Macs crash. While Apple has been working with Adobe to address these issues, the problems remain. Jobs also claims that Apple has yet to see Flash performing well on any mobile device, something it has repeatedly asked Adobe to demonstrate.

Another bullcrap... Adobe demonstrated Flash on mobile devices and while performance on desktops can be improved it is far from being as bad as he presents it... Perhaps trully working with Adobe and giving some APIs might help!? Perhaps...

Good job on ranting versus performance. Now what about security and stability? Especially security.

4. Battery Life: Long battery life essentially requires hardware decoding of formats such as H.264, but most Flash website continue to use older decoders that must run in software, crippling battery life for mobile devices.


Another lie... Adobe proved that there is no major hit on battery life, and after all, why not let your customers decide and worry about it... When I play NOVA on iPod Touch (arguably one of the best games made for the device) my battery drains flat after about 1hr of usage. So frekn what!?!?! It is my decision to play NOVA and keep an eye on battery just like it would be to run Flash video or Flash app...

Ah, the only 'lie' rant. Battery life of my PowerBook (sig) when doing basic web browsing (no intentional video) before ClickToFlash: about 2.5 hours. After installation: 3.5 hours. That's a good 30% improvement due entirely to advertisements being blocked. Flash slows down the whole system and makes the fans come on literally within ten seconds. If they turn off within five minutes, I consider myself lucky. So, not a lie.

5. Touch: Interactive Flash content is mouse-driven and not easily compatible with Apple's touch-driven iPhone OS. Jobs argues that developers who need to rewrite their Flash websites to support touch anyway should look to more modern technologies like those supported by Apple.


Steve should have better things to worry about and he should let developers worry about how to solve this issue...

So Apple shouldn't worry about content being usable? You'd rather have uncontrollable content than no content?

6. Flash as a Third-Party Development Tool: Jobs outlines Apple's arguments against allowing developers to create iPhone applications using Flash or other third-party development tools, citing sub-standard performance and a reliance on those third parties to adopt changes and improvements. Apple wants developers building directly on iPhone OS for the best experience possible.

LOL! So awesome objective-c standard of various Fart Apps can't possibly be matched with Flash! Hahahahahaha!

90% of stuff on App store is nothing short of joke and "substandard" while it's been demonstrated numerous of times in recent months that Flash is more than capable of exporting decent apps for the device... In short - yet another lie...

Granted, but what about the other 10% of stuff? Fart Apps aren't the only thing on the store. I'm sure there are basic C compilers that work in template form for these apps.

In any case, thanks for this letter Steve - you just proved what many have suspected and already knew...

You are hypocrite, lier and above all draconian control freak who simply cant understand what "freedom of choice" for your customers means...

More with the spelling. If there is any hypocrisy it is not from SJ. Except maybe that bit on Blu-ray. As little a Blu-ray fan as I have been, it sounds like it's easy enough to implement given licensing changes and easy decoding. Now if DRM could be solved, that would be great. Also, maybe Apple has the freedom to choose what to put on their devices? Freedom works both ways. Instead of infringing on the user's rights it would be infringing on the company's rights. As it is, you have the choice to buy an Android phone and Apple has the choice to not support Flash. There's plenty of freedom.

You won't see another penny from me and I am positive from many others too!

He wouldn't see a penny out of you regardless. He only makes $1 per year (salary section in box on right) and will get that dollar whether you buy an Apple product or not.

Listen...

It is YOUR choice whom you are going to believe and whit whom you are going to spend your money...

I have seen various Adobe demos and heard what they are saying - I have also heard what Steve says.

To me it is perfectly clear who is the "bad guy" here hence Steve won't get single penny again from me...

If you love Apple prison and limitations they are imposing on you, if you are hypnotised by Steve's hypocrisy and lies then by all means go and spend your money with them...

Cant care less quite frankly

And I will go with Apple for the superior user experience and lack of dependance on Flash. Frankly, I try to buy devices that don't support Flash over those that do. Oh, and if you couldn't care less, then why exactly are you still here ranting?

 

[lilo777]

And I will go with Apple for the superior user experience and lack of dependance on Flash. Frankly, I try to buy devices that don't support Flash over those that do. Oh, and if you couldn't care less, then why exactly are you still here ranting?

Is not this a little bit irrational (to put it mildly)? You can always disable Flash if you do not like it (or even not install it). I think you are just trying to rationalize your fanboyism. You'll get over it with time

 

[MorphingDragon]

Is not this a little bit irrational (to put it mildly)? You can always disable Flash if you do not like it (or even not install it). I think you are just trying to rationalize your fanboyism. You'll get over it with time

At least in New Zealand, any devices with flash absolutely suck kiwifruit. (Yes Android too as we only have the HTC Magic actively available)

 

[Manxman]

He's articulated what sensible people have been saying for a year or more.

Flash is an outdated nuisance and the sooner it's dead the better for users and the industry.

 

[juanster]

He's articulated what sensible people have been saying for a year or more.

Flash is an outdated nuisance and the sooner it's dead the better for users and the industry.

What industry are you speaking about?if flash dies?not the mobile development industry, or the marketing industry for sure. Real developers will love making stuff over and over again so that it works on all browsers, its more money. Marketing industry will hate it because now they have to pay extra money for things that aren't as rich as they used to be and now will have to pay extra because of the extra work to develop for apple's devices and then develop for the rest of the world.
As a developer I couldn't care less I can do it whichever way they want me to, and if I can't I will learn how to do it.