Correction, Firefox and Webkit have their own implementation of parts of the CSS3 standard - unfinalised.
IE isn't lagging, it is waiting until these standards are near enough complete for reccomendation before it implements them in the software.
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Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter
- Thread starter Lordillingworth
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Correction, Firefox and Webkit have their own implementation of parts of the CSS3 standard - unfinalised.
IE isn't lagging, it is waiting until these standards are near enough complete for reccomendation before it implements them in the software.
I absolutely hate Adobe. Flash has needed to die for years, and Steve just put the nail in the coffin.
Anyone remember what happened, that sparked an outrage, when Apple removed the floppy drive from the Bondi Blue iMac G3s? Look at the state of the floppy disc today. It's dead, and for good reason. Flash is headed that way as well. It sucks on Mac, period. The web needs to move forward, and the fastest way is to get rid of IE6 and Flash. Both are legacy standards, both need to fade away. If a developer REALLY wants to make a game, why not take direct advantage of the hardware and make a REAL computer game, in C++ or Obj-C? If they still want it to be free or with ads, they are fully capable of doing that too. It's time for Flash to go the way of the floppy disc.
Anyone remember what happened, that sparked an outrage, when Apple removed the floppy drive from the Bondi Blue iMac G3s? Look at the state of the floppy disc today. It's dead, and for good reason. Flash is headed that way as well. It sucks on Mac, period. The web needs to move forward, and the fastest way is to get rid of IE6 and Flash. Both are legacy standards, both need to fade away. If a developer REALLY wants to make a game, why not take direct advantage of the hardware and make a REAL computer game, in C++ or Obj-C? If they still want it to be free or with ads, they are fully capable of doing that too. It's time for Flash to go the way of the floppy disc.
Geeee - ageist and racist is one line!!!!
Did you come up with both at once or scratch your nuts in between...and then throw in a grammar lesson for us all (as if spelling correlates to whether someones argument is right or wrong).
Mate - whatever the merits of your case you just lost it by cheap and tacky shots.
Wow... them be fightin' words!
This is the same sentence that stood out to me. I use Adobe Web CS4 and what really ticks me off is that they don't even actually include all the web dev tools in the suite, they include Soundbooth! but not Flash builder, a tool that would be way more useful to a web dev than Soundbooth.
But it just goes to show all they want is to make money of peoples effort to develop. Not enhance the development process. What I would give for Java/MySQL/HTML5 RIA builder from Adobe! To be honest though, even before touch devices i've hated Flash, it's is a security hole, taxes stability, and hogs system resources. Moreover i don't like long lists of third-party junk to install when i setup a new system. Whats worse is that building your site with it requires your users to have to install Flash. non-tech people don't do well with installing things. Flash simply isn't user or computer friendly.
Flash is not dead yet
People act like we're going to flip a switch and everyone's browser will be HTML5 compatible. Let's remind everyone that 10% of the web is still on IE6!
If flash wants to survive, it really needs to embrace Android, WebOS & Windows 7 mobile and show that flash is still relevant in a increasingly mobile world. Apple will cave if users indeed want the "full web" and start gravitating toward other platforms because if it.
I also disagree with Apple not allowing Flash-written Apps in the iTunes store. If an App truly is inferior because it wasn't written natively, then it will be reviewed negatively and no one will buy it. I think the market should dictate this. Pretty sure Adobe is clever enough to include features that optimize apps for touch navigation.
People act like we're going to flip a switch and everyone's browser will be HTML5 compatible. Let's remind everyone that 10% of the web is still on IE6!
If flash wants to survive, it really needs to embrace Android, WebOS & Windows 7 mobile and show that flash is still relevant in a increasingly mobile world. Apple will cave if users indeed want the "full web" and start gravitating toward other platforms because if it.
I also disagree with Apple not allowing Flash-written Apps in the iTunes store. If an App truly is inferior because it wasn't written natively, then it will be reviewed negatively and no one will buy it. I think the market should dictate this. Pretty sure Adobe is clever enough to include features that optimize apps for touch navigation.
Except you miss the absolute beauty of HTML ... it freaking downgrades. Code HTML5 today, serve HTML5 video to the browsers that already support it, serve Flash to the others. You only need one movie file, 4KB of JavaScript, and get this ...
This is my favorite part ...
When these old browsers are update, they get served the new HMTL5 version without you having to go and change any code.
It's really so simple to do that it's trivial.
To be honest though, even before touch devices i've hated Flash, it's is a security hole, taxes stability, and hogs system resources. Moreover i don't like long lists of third-party junk to install when i setup a new system. Whats worse is that building your site with it requires your users to have to install Flash. non-tech people don't do well with installing things. Flash simply isn't user or computer friendly.
Great points
Any More Questions?
This memo removes all doubts about the future of Flash. It is almost "surgical" in the way it dismembers the whole pro-Flash argument.
Apple is famous for providing the first spadeful of dirt in the grave of obsolete technologies.
Flash has as much of a future as the floppy disk did in 1995.
It is a "vision thing".
This memo removes all doubts about the future of Flash. It is almost "surgical" in the way it dismembers the whole pro-Flash argument.
Apple is famous for providing the first spadeful of dirt in the grave of obsolete technologies.
Flash has as much of a future as the floppy disk did in 1995.
It is a "vision thing".
1. HTML5 is not even completely specified yet.
2. There are ZERO browsers on the market that support HTML5.
3. HTML5 -might- be a future technology, but currently NOBODY uses it and that makes it vaporware.
4. Flash, on the other hand, is an existing and working(!) OPEN standard that is used by almost everybody.
5. So from where I stand, Apple's iGadgets are worthless, because Apple does not WANT to support an EXISTING and WIDELY USED standard.
6. But don't worry. In two years from now, the open platform Android will be the market leader, and it does support Flash, Java and several other technologies that Apple refuses to integrate. Android will be used by the entire remaining industry, leaving only a small market niche for Apple's closed system.
7. What Apple does or not has only a short term impact. The future belongs to their competition.
Racist?!?! Don't be silly... even an Aussie could live in some low-tech European location. (your unique interpretation of "live in" is telling though).
As for 'cheap and tacky' -- i was simply speaking in terms with which that particular poster seemed most fluent.
Safari, Chrome, and Firefox already support a good portion of the HTML5 spec.
This is also bull*****, I started coding all new sites for my clients in straight HTML5 using fallbacks where needed to ensure compatibility. However looking past me there are tons of sites out there that are coded in HTML5, you just haven't noticed. Maybe because it's no as easy to spot as an annoying Flash pop ad.
The gas car is an industry standard used by nearly everyone. Should we not be trying to move past the gasoline engine?
This is actually great, it could become the Windows of the mobile world, and with Flash built into Android it will even have a nice open door for malware and viruses to spread themselves.
I haven't and will not until all major browsers support it, and many issues are cleared up.
Naturally it depends on the type of projects you are working on. I still have somethings I would prefer to remain using XHTML on. However for most projects, especially those quick and dirty ones. I think using HTML5 now, doesn't pose many problems.
You, sir, do not know what you're talking about, and you're confusing and mixing up many things that are not related to each other at all. And I am getting tired of that ridiculous discussion.
The ONLY reason why Steve Jobs refuses to support Flash is because it is a WORKING multi-platform technology that allows developers to deploy the very same software and content on various target platforms and not just on Apple's platform.
Objective-C is an unimportant niche language that is ONLY used by Apple and thus has zero relevance anywhere else in the computer industry. Binding developers to that language binds them to Apple, and that is the ONLY reason why Mr Jobs now tries to force the developers to use that antique, 30 years old and totally out-dated and irrelevant language.
Android is quickly gaining market share and Apple will lose many developers to that platform - a platform that is open and does not restrict developers in any way. In two years from now, you will see a mysterious, magical change in Apple's attitude towards multi-platform development tools: And that is when Apple is forced to accept ported Android software in their dying iTunes AppStore.
You're talking about going the way of the Floppy disc? Well, His Steveness decided to repeat the very same mistakes with which he almost killed Apple in the 1980s and why Apple's board of directors fired him. He lost the desktop war against Microsoft because he refused to open the Mac platform to Third Parties. He's making that same mistake now with the iPhone OS and he will lose the market to Android.
Open platforms always win.
Who's worried? And why would Apple having only a small share concern you so much?
As long as the "Apple-ness" is preserved, and not left up to the whims of Flash developers to control the amount (and quality) of "Adobe-ness" in the iPhone OS, i'd think everyone would be happy. [except perhaps Flash devs, looking to make a quick buck off the iTunes Store.]
At any rate, your points there are mostly correct, and we will see how things play out.
But... were it not for this gutsy move by Apple (back in 2007 when the iPhone first ignored Flash), then very little forward motion would have occurred. Improvements in Flash (web video for mobile devices) would have continued to stagnate, or perhaps slowly drifted towards some nebulous destination. So —while you're cutting down SJ for those things you perceive to be so evil —whisper a little word of thanks as well, for whatever "developments" Adobe is finally putting some effort into.
If they move fast enough, they may yet dislodge Steve's boot from their hindquarters.
"2.So from where I stand, Apple's iGadgets are worthless, because Apple does not WANT to support an EXISTING and WIDELY USED standard."
Whiney, just shuffle your feet to move out of that ostrich hole...
Of course. I mainly build RIA, corporate websites, am part of an internal development team at Internet Brands working on vBulletin, as on June, and, a multimedia developer.
For quick sites, I don't implement very new things, IE HTML5, unless the cause is justified and there is pure benefit in the long term.
But not H.264 for the video tag. Which is what we here are talking about. Same for Opera BTW. Not supported.
Good for you. However. Don't rely on H.264 for the video tag, or be ready for when your client(s) starts to complain.
Funny that you should say that because, I've actually just about completed a project that uses the video tag and H.264. And trust me my client is going to be very very happy.
I deliver HTML5 video in Safari, Chrome, and iPhone. Then in the ancient browsers I replace the video tag with a Flash player. Only took 4kb of JavaScript to do it. Plus I skip having multiple source files (one h264 source) and as old browsers are updated (IE9) they automatically get the newer HTML5 version.
So there it is full HTML5 video today, that is cross platform compatible and easy as he'll for any web designer worth his pay. I even helped another MacRumor user do the same on one of their projects.
