Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[linux2mac]

You think like me in that regard. Quick OT question: I want to get a gaming console. Which one am i getting? Thanks.

I vote PS3 as well unless you like Gears of War and Halo series. I bought a PS3 after my Xbox died. I ended up replacing the 360 with an Elite from Costco. BTW Costco ( best electronics warranty in the business) will replace or refund 100% money if my 360 dies with no time limit. I bought PS3 from Costco too.

Anyways its funny this question came up because I decided to try the new Halo last night. I have a Triton AX 180 headset and it was a pain in the butt to get working with the 360 ( extra wires and connections - UGH) where as on my PS3 it was as simple as plugging in the USB cable. Turns out my 360 Elite controller is not so "Elite." The Tritton's did not work with it but worked with the controller from my old console. I said to my friend, "my painful days of windows are over and now MS is getting back at me by ruining my gaming."

morphing is on the money there. i use MakeMKV to rip them (uncompressed-ly) to a .mkv and then watch from there. i have PS3 Media Server to then transcode (with attempted lossless compression) to my PS3 over gigabit, and use Air Video Server (runs in the menubar) to transcode any movie on the fly to my iPad/iPods if i so please (even over the internet).

Hey thanks! I am going to check those utilities out (MakeMKV, PS3 Media Server, Air Video Server).

 

[DoFoT9]

Hey thanks! I am going to check those utilities out (MakeMKV, PS3 Media Server, Air Video Server).

please do! it is quite easy to set up and very easy to use. i have a dedicated PS3 MS setup thread on MacRumors - you can find it through my profile threads etc.

 

[janstett]

He rips them to an uncompressed format.

Not to be nitpicky, but in the next few messages "uncompressed" gets thrown around a lot.

Blu-Ray is not uncompressed to begin with (well, with the exception of PCM audio). Video uses MPEG2, VC1, or H.264 which is lossy compression and audio is usually compressed with DTS HD-MA (sometimes the lesser lossy predecessors) or Dolby True HD (sometimes the lesser lossy predecessors).

If you can grab the container files straight off the disk (I forget what they are, m2ts?) then at least you can say you are not reencoding. But it is not uncompressed. Uncompressed would be raw YUV frames which would take up insane space.

You're getting a PS3.

The PS3 is a great console for everything but games. I have both and clearly the XBox is the winner for games. Here is my logic:

- The PS3 has been losing a lot of its exclusive franchises because they've lost this round of the console wars.
- Many PS3 games do not even support 1080 and are only 720p. There's that problem again.
- XBox Live is far better than Sony's online play experience.
- STILL NO GRAN TURISMO

If you're a casual gamer, you could live with a PS3. Otherwise, you gotta get an Xbox.

 

[iEdd]

If you're a casual gamer, you could live with a PS3. Otherwise, you gotta get an Xbox.

In 2007-2008 I might've agreed.

I have both too, but I don't see Infamous, Resistance(x2), LittleBigPlanet or Uncharted(x2) on Xbox 360. Almost all of our good 360 games are available on PS3 anyway. If you go through and find the 360 equivalent of those 4 game franchises alone, you respectively get Prototype (available on PS3 anyway), Gears of War (good), nothing and nothing.

Edit: Not sure why no Gran Turismo is a dealbreaker. That fact didn't stop you getting a 360

 

[kingtj]

re: PS3 or XBox?

From the very beginning, I opted for a new PS3 system, and although they were slow to get really good game titles out for it? I never regretted my purchase. At least the PS3's hardware was a better value for your dollar, considering Sony was selling the machines at a loss, initially, while the XBox 360 hardware really wasn't. But more importantly to me, the PS3 was more of a home media center machine. It gave you a good blu-ray disc player to add that functionality to your big-screen TV, and supported streaming of content from other computers in your home.

And very early on, the PS3 had "Resistance" which the XBox didn't. That title, alone, proved the potential of the console.

I mean, sure, the 360 owners get some "exclusive" game titles that practically everyone agrees are good. But it never appears to be for a technical reason (EG. XBox graphics or processor power makes it impossible to release a decent version on a PS3.). Instead, it's always because Microsoft paid off a development studio to keep it exclusive. (I remember they did that with Grand Theft Auto 4's expansion pack, for example.) And the Halo series? I can't argue that lots of people LOVE it, but I played the original on my Mac and on my Windows PC, and thought it was "fun, but overrated". Not enough content/maps in the thing, and too repetitious. Quit playing it completely after a few months. I never saw anything offered in newer installments that was "so awesome, I had to rethink my console purchasing decision over it".

In 2007-2008 I might've agreed.

I have both too, but I don't see Infamous, Resistance(x2), LittleBigPlanet or Uncharted(x2) on Xbox 360. Almost all of our good 360 games are available on PS3 anyway. If you go through and find the 360 equivalent of those 4 game franchises alone, you respectively get Prototype (available on PS3 anyway), Gears of War (good), nothing and nothing.

Edit: Not sure why no Gran Turismo is a dealbreaker. That fact didn't stop you getting a 360

 

[DoFoT9]

Not to be nitpicky, but in the next few messages "uncompressed" gets thrown around a lot.

come on man, we all know what context this term is used in. uncompressed in this debate = a direct rip from a BD disc.

- Many PS3 games do not even support 1080 and are only 720p. There's that problem again.

all mine seem to be 1080p, how do you tell?

- XBox Live is far better than Sony's online play experience.

in all honesty i think they are equal..

- STILL NO GRAN TURISMO

soon! soon

If you're a casual gamer, you could live with a PS3. Otherwise, you gotta get an Xbox.

as a VERY casual gamer and an avid movie watcher, the PS3 wins hands down.

Well, this thread is so "overbeating the undead horse" anyway, so if I'm still here, I can't be sick of anything here.

ill take that as a compliment

just realised you are a Fin - they are awsome people!

But I guess you're right, Apple satisfies all 3 corners for Average Joe. The problem is that when you establish your r&d with that, you are 5 years behind what enthusiast or early adaptor or professional wants.

we have the iphones/ipods to blame for that. it has changed apple completely. they are just the average consumer company now - they still make high quality products, just not high demanding features in those products.

I'm writing this with laptop that costed €900 1.5 years ago and it has bd, eSata, ec slot & hdmi in addition to what MB's have.
Sure it has crappy screen, keyboard, drivers, Visva & it crashes all the time, but that's because of bad drivers and os.
If you'd add good drivers & os (X), added $500 for better quality hardware and $500 for Apple tax, that would be dream laptop for everybody for $2k.

sounds like a good laptop. i would pay for that! too bad apple isnt in that area of computers

 

[toke lahti]

Uncompressed would be raw YUV frames which would take up insane space.

Btw, YUV is a compression method for RGB-picture...

 

[janstett]

In 2007-2008 I might've agreed.

I have both too, but I don't see Infamous, Resistance(x2), LittleBigPlanet or Uncharted(x2) on Xbox 360. Almost all of our good 360 games are available on PS3 anyway. If you go through and find the 360 equivalent of those 4 game franchises alone, you respectively get Prototype (available on PS3 anyway), Gears of War (good), nothing and nothing.

Edit: Not sure why no Gran Turismo is a dealbreaker. That fact didn't stop you getting a 360

Sure, the PS3 still has some exclusives but it's seen a lot of defections -- such as Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Since I have both, really, I don't care who gets my $60 for a game. But more and more I find the PS3 collecting dust. The last game I bought was MGS 4 and for every one PS3 game I consider I consider 5-10 XBox games.

As for Gran Turismo, I've been a fan since the original on the first Playstation. I even imported the Japanese version before the US version came out. Been a fan for every version. But enough is enough, it was supposed to be a launch title. And while they delay and delay and delay, slowly the alternatives like Forza get better and better.

I bought both consoles at launch. It hasn't been an either-or for me for generations.

Btw, YUV is a compression method for RGB-picture...

YUV goes back to the beginning of the broadcast of analog color. It's compression in that it reduces how much color information is present versus how much detail, but it's not "compression" in the modern sense. Further most video, analog or digital, is not shot in RGB to begin with.

all mine seem to be 1080p, how do you tell?

Most of the time they list it on the back of the keepcase in a box. For example, looking at my slipcase of Resistance, it's 720p only. Some newer games like Uncharted 2 and MGS4 are 1080p. I think at the time there was some issue in Sony's graphic librariesor memory allocation preventing triple buffering at 1080p but it was possible at 720p, IIRC that was the technical issue on the PS3.

I also don't like that the PS3 has become defeatured -- removing SACD playback, removing PS2 emulation, etc., in the new slim models.

You said XBox live and Sony's online are about the same -- far from it. The entire 360 experience was built around XBox Live and it shows. With Sony, it was a tacked-on afterthought and is largely inconsistent in experience. Every game on the PS3 has to put its own interface on the experience, whereas on the 360 its in the dashboard. I also seem to have horrible connectivity problems on the Sony servers compared to the XBox live experience.

 

[toke lahti]

YUV goes back to the beginning of the broadcast of analog color. It's compression in that it reduces how much color information is present versus how much detail, but it's not "compression" in the modern sense. Further most video, analog or digital, is not shot in RGB to begin with.

All video "is shot" to begin with RGB. Video starts in imager and all sensors are RGB. Also all video end in RGB, since all displays are RGB. Reducing chroma information is compression and in digital domain it is also very easy to say how much. If 8-bit RGB is converted to 8-bit 4:2:0, it means that 24 bits/pixel is reduced to 12 bits/pixel. Thus 50% compression.

 

[janstett]

All video "is shot" to begin with RGB. Video starts in imager and all sensors are RGB. Also all video end in RGB, since all displays are RGB. Reducing chroma information is compression and in digital domain it is also very easy to say how much. If 8-bit RGB is converted to 8-bit 4:2:0, it means that 24 bits/pixel is reduced to 12 bits/pixel. Thus 50% compression.

OK, either (a) you didn't listen to a word I said, or (b) you don't comprehend that there is such a thing as compression in the analog domain.

I'll reiterate -- YUV originated with the introduction of color to the analog broadcast system, it was invented by Valensi in 1938 and it is a form of analog compression to take less bandwidth during transmission.

Yes, in today's modern digital equipment the CCDs and displays deal with RGB. But technically even that is not true. Video hardware deals with video by using things called "overlays" which take various forms of YUV as their input -- NOT RGB. Many HDTVs will also accept YUV video over HDMI. Ultimately the display buffer of the video card's output hardware or the display buffer of the HDTV is dealing with sending an RGB frame but as the very last step of a closed process.

But again going back to analog broadcast television, the image capture is not RGB and the image display on a CRT is not RGB.

Then there is the issue of film -- which is video and clearly NOT shot digitally in the vast majority of cases. Two issues arise -- if the film is used as fodder for digital effects, how is it scanned (AFAIK in the RGB domain) and then how is it telecined for broadcast and home video before compression (AFAIK in the YUV domain).

Even in today's modern digital video systems the actual image capture may be in RGB inside the camera but it is immediately converted to YUV for media storage so the argument is kind of pointless. But saying "all video starts and ends as RGB" is not true. If you said all digital video you could make an argument, but even then the first thing a camera does is convert TO YUV and the last thing a display device does is convert to RGB (if at all).

 

[Crunch]

Let's get real here. If Steve Jobs had his way, we would only be using the Apple TV to rent TV shows and movies from iTunes with its pseudo-HD, which only impresses if compared to a crappy YouTube video.

 

[Porco]

Umm, I am well aware of the specs. Thanks for pointing out the obvious genius. Why don't you get up to speed on some facts and read the CNET article below.

Apple TV isn't 1080p and you shouldn't care
by Matthew Moskovciak

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20015427-1.html

Half a pint of beer isn't a pint and you shouldn't care

Yeah? Why would you want to fill a pint glass when you can pay the same for less of a weaker beer just to make the bar's owner happy? You weren't thirsty anyway - half a pint is good enough for most people. Now hand over your money for that pint of beer you're not getting.

 

[Jaro65]

Let's get real here. If Steve Jobs had his way, we would only be using the Apple TV to rent TV shows and movies from iTunes with its pseudo-HD, which only impresses if compared to a crappy YouTube video.

Well he is trying as hard as he can....

Though I was surprised that the new Apple TV supports Netflix. Thumbs up for that!

 

[toke lahti]

OK, either (a) you didn't listen to a word I said, or (b) you don't comprehend that there is such a thing as compression in the analog domain.

Take it easy! I did/know both those things.

I'll reiterate -- YUV originated with the introduction of color to the analog broadcast system, it was invented by Valensi in 1938 and it is a form of analog compression to take less bandwidth during transmission.

YUV means analog component signal. Digital component signal should be called YCbCr. Satisfied?
Although chroma subsampling is originated in analog domain and it is a way of analog compression, it also exist in digital domain and is also compression method in there.
Also digital chroma subsampling is different from analog. For example, you can't do 4:2:0 with analog signal.

Yes, in today's modern digital equipment the CCDs and displays deal with RGB. But technically even that is not true. Video hardware deals with video by using things called "overlays" which take various forms of YUV as their input -- NOT RGB. Many HDTVs will also accept YUV video over HDMI. Ultimately the display buffer of the video card's output hardware or the display buffer of the HDTV is dealing with sending an RGB frame but as the very last step of a closed process.

If "video" means electrical reprentation of image perceived by optical system, then video starts in imager (tube or sensor or film) and those are and have always been and will be RGB.

But again going back to analog broadcast television, the image capture is not RGB and the image display on a CRT is not RGB.

Maybe you should study a little bit CRT basics. You can also take magnifying glass and look at nearest tube (or any display technology). You won't see one "luma dot" and two "chroma dots". So video path also ends in RGB.

Even in today's modern digital video systems the actual image capture may be in RGB inside the camera but it is immediately converted to YUV for media storage so the argument is kind of pointless. But saying "all video starts and ends as RGB" is not true. If you said all digital video you could make an argument, but even then the first thing a camera does is convert TO YUV and the last thing a display device does is convert to RGB (if at all).

All analog video (with natural real world images) also starts in RGB. Even if it's only the first and the last stage.
Of course you can produce artificial signal that originates in YUV/YRbRg.
But that's not the point.
Point is that you should think "compression" as a bit wider thing than just some DCT or what ever happens in mpeg. Compression is filtering information in every domain. And that's what is done with chroma subsampling in both analog and digital domain.

 

[AidenShaw]

If anyone wants a BD player at a bargain, I got this link in an email today:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5740523&sku=F26-1030

$69.99

Magnavox NB500MG1F Blu-Ray Player - 1080p, HDMI, SD Memory Slot, BONUSVIEW, Remote Control, (Refurbished)​

 

[pr5owner]

If anyone wants a BD player at a bargain, I got this link in an email today:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5740523&sku=F26-1030

$69.99

Magnavox NB500MG1F Blu-Ray Player - 1080p, HDMI, SD Memory Slot, BONUSVIEW, Remote Control, (Refurbished)​

well i got this for $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106325

oops i forgot, iMac/ATV/MacMini users cant upgrade their DVD drives

my HTPC is over 3 years old and its still able to run with the latest formats and i can play videos above 1080p without breaking a sweat (the cpu doesnt even pass 20%), i just dont get why people shell out so much money for things that don't even work

Blu-ray drives are unreliable and expensive,
and that's why they will not be inside the Mac!

just like DVD drives right? oh wait your mac has one of those!
and a crappy one at that, matsushita drives are the worst garbage i have ever used, the failure rate on those are ridiculous (guess what all macmini's/macbooks/macbookpros and imacs use?)

 

[AidenShaw]

well i got this for $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106325

My link was for a $69.99 standalone home BD player, not an internal drive....

It's nice, though, that internal drive prices are also very low.

 

[henrikrox]

Guys. you are so wrong its ridiculous.

90% of the PS3 and Xbox360 games is rendered in 720p. The PS3 doesn't have a hardware scaler, so when you press info on your remote while playing it should say 720p. Hell even uncharted 2 is 720p. GT5 is 1080p, but is one of the very very few.

THe xbox 360 also runs game natively in 720p. However xbox360 does have a hardware scaler, so it scales the resolution to 1080p. However this doesn't improve the picture quality one bit.

Get your facts straight. By writing BS, you just look stupid and clueless

 

[pr5owner]

My link was for a $69.99 standalone home BD player, not an internal drive....

It's nice, though, that internal drive prices are also very low.

i know, i was just making a fun poke at how sad apple upgradeability options are, anyways, at THIS moment in time, all online streaming options look at like absolute crap compared a BD, dont even try and say its "ok" when BD bitrates are 30-50mbit. online streaming currently is NOT a viable replacement for BD until it exceeds BD quality. 1080p or not, its the bitrate that counts

Reminds me of the whole 128kbit mp3's are comparable to Cd quality

Guys. you are so wrong its ridiculous.

90% of the PS3 and Xbox360 games is rendered in 720p. The PS3 doesn't have a hardware scaler, so when you press info on your remote while playing it should say 720p. Hell even uncharted 2 is 720p. GT5 is 1080p, but is one of the very very few.

THe xbox 360 also runs game natively in 720p. However xbox360 does have a hardware scaler, so it scales the resolution to 1080p. However this doesn't improve the picture quality one bit.

Get your facts straight. By writing BS, you just look stupid and clueless

yeah i was going to say something about that, the console(s) isnt powerful enough to render 1080p, even 720p they slow down during heavy action.

when consoles can render 2048x1156x32 16AA 16AF MAX details, Max settings for all games at a locked in 60FPS like my gaming rig can, maybe ill switch to consoles, until then i cant stand looking at low resolution crap

i would like to see how crappy metro 2033 would run on a console at those settings, my rig can only sustain 20-40fps with those settings and DX11 + Physx. it would be a total joke, like 1-2 fps

 

[MorphingDragon]

when consoles can render 2048x1156x32 16AA 16AF MAX details, Max settings for all games at a locked in 60FPS like my gaming rig can, maybe ill switch to consoles, until then i cant stand looking at low resolution crap

It must suck knowing that most games are ports of console games...

 

[Samh6]

It must suck knowing that most games are ports of console games...

/Agree, lazy developers+pushy liscencees=COD like games

 

[KnightWRX]

yeah i was going to say something about that, the console(s) isnt powerful enough to render 1080p,

Really, never had any problems with Burnout Paradise on my PS3. Runs beautifully.

 

[pug1]

Amongst the emails that Steve Jobs has been responding to, he also responded to an inquiry by a MacRumors reader Siva about future of Blu-ray on the Mac. While Blu-ray has been a long requested feature for Macs, Apple has described Blu-ray licensing as bag of hurt and hasn't made any moves to incorporate the drives into their desktop Macs.

That seems unlikely to change in the near future if Steve Jobs' recent email replies are any guide. Siva emailed Jobs about being disappointed that the recently revised Mac mini didn't include a Blu-ray drive. To this, Steve Jobs replied:Siva responded that even though this may be true in the long run, he argued the medium term benefits were substantial, including high density backups and high quality video. He also argued that high-end video formats have had a much higher uptake and points out the lack of DRM was in part what made MP3 take off. Jobs' final response, however, offered little hope:

Article Link: Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

This pisses me off so much. Yes I bought my i7 iMac knowing there wasn't a BD drive but now that I want a flash drive HD camcorder, this is very limiting as far as viewing/sharing. Seems now I'll have to consider purchasing a Windows notebook with BD recording capability to be able to share video on Blu-ray players. How the hell else do you do it. Seems pretty stupid.

 

[macbookpro13]

Sure, the PS3 still has some exclusives but it's seen a lot of defections -- such as Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. Since I have both, really, I don't care who gets my $60 for a game. But more and more I find the PS3 collecting dust. The last game I bought was MGS 4 and for every one PS3 game I consider I consider 5-10 XBox games.

As for Gran Turismo, I've been a fan since the original on the first Playstation. I even imported the Japanese version before the US version came out. Been a fan for every version. But enough is enough, it was supposed to be a launch title. And while they delay and delay and delay, slowly the alternatives like Forza get better and better.

I bought both consoles at launch. It hasn't been an either-or for me for generations.



YUV goes back to the beginning of the broadcast of analog color. It's compression in that it reduces how much color information is present versus how much detail, but it's not "compression" in the modern sense. Further most video, analog or digital, is not shot in RGB to begin with.



Most of the time they list it on the back of the keepcase in a box. For example, looking at my slipcase of Resistance, it's 720p only. Some newer games like Uncharted 2 and MGS4 are 1080p. I think at the time there was some issue in Sony's graphic librariesor memory allocation preventing triple buffering at 1080p but it was possible at 720p, IIRC that was the technical issue on the PS3.

I also don't like that the PS3 has become defeatured -- removing SACD playback, removing PS2 emulation, etc., in the new slim models.

You said XBox live and Sony's online are about the same -- far from it. The entire 360 experience was built around XBox Live and it shows. With Sony, it was a tacked-on afterthought and is largely inconsistent in experience. Every game on the PS3 has to put its own interface on the experience, whereas on the 360 its in the dashboard. I also seem to have horrible connectivity problems on the Sony servers compared to the XBox live experience.

The resolution on the back of the boxes mean nothing. The 360 has a built in scaler unlike the ps3, so it can output all 720p games in "1080p", but it's just a scaled up image. You get the same thing on the ps3, only the scaling is being done by your TV or receiver.

I found the only thing missing from PSN vs XBL is cross game chat/cross game invite. That is the feature that makes it so much easier to chat and play online with friends. If you play by yourself it doesn't matter though. Both ps3 and 360 use p2p networks so the quality is the same, only for some reason MS charges you $60 a year to use the stuff you already paid for.

I'm not sure what you mean by the common interface thing. You price the guide button during any game and a mini dashboard comes up with in game options. You press the PS button during any game and the XMB comes up with all the options. Granted, I think the ps3's in game menu is clunky because it brings up the ENTIRE XMB, when it should just be a streamlined menu with the relevant game options only.

 

[smali]

when consoles can render 2048x1156x32 16AA 16AF MAX details, Max settings for all games at a locked in 60FPS like my gaming rig can, maybe ill switch to consoles, until then i cant stand looking at low resolution crap

i would like to see how crappy metro 2033 would run on a console at those settings, my rig can only sustain 20-40fps with those settings and DX11 + Physx. it would be a total joke, like 1-2 fps

Your sig: Asus G53JW - i7 740QM / 1.5GB GTX460 / 120GB x2 Patriot Inferno SSD's / 8GB Ram / 15.6" 1080p 120hz LCD / Win7x64 Ultimate (Pre-ordered)
Dell Mini 9 w/ OSX 10.5

All that freaking processing power and you play on a 15inch screen and your complaining about "low resolution crap??

Also I love all these PC gamers who talk about Crysis/Metro fps rates blah blah don't realize that these games are rubbish/boring/old.

I mean Metro 2033? Come on resident evil 3 on the PSone was more engaging and fun.