Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[xbjllb]

So... what do you like about Apple?

Blu-Ray is just a minor frustration for me at this point (which becomes increasingly annoying as DVD gets older), but your posts seem to indicate huge emotional hurt from Apple – I'm not even sure if you like anything it [Apple] does at all.

Yep, that's why I just bit the bullet and bought the 450th 2.93 12 core. Or so the serial number seems to say. I think my $40,000 plus outlay in Apple hardware and software over the past years entitles me to a system that can burn and play a five-year old Blu-ray disc without booting into Windoze.

And I'm NOT alone.

It seems the "joke" is actually on you... because you sound extremely upset, and that's really quite amusing at this point in time (3000+ posts).

My first posts were typical fanboi raves, my middle posts after being ignored by Mr. Jobs for a year or two were making the shift from polite to testy, and the last 500 or so have been downright hateful although absolutely accurate. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Usually.

Unless you're dealing with a fascist megalomaniac.

It's not about getting the last word. It's sometimes necessary to call out posters who repeat the same old lies, over and over and over again. If this BD cause is so just, then why is it necessary for some to resort to prevarication?

One person's lies are another person's truth.

Only knowledge and experience can tell the difference.

And you've spent just how much on Apple over how many years?

Furthermore, you and your ilk are fast becoming the minority on here.

 

[jaw04005]

Microsoft's ad mentioned above is pathetic. I do not want to watch Blu-Ray movies on a laptop screen or any computer screen. The only reason that Blu-Ray should be implemented into computers is so that they can be hooked up to a projector and displayed on projection screens.

No. What's pathetic is you can't even watch a Blu-ray movie on Windows 7 without additional third-party software (that usually ranges in the $50+ pricing category). It's NOT even a built-in feature of Windows 7.

In fact, Windows for years didn't even include DVD video support. It wasn't until Vista that Microsoft finally shipped an MPEG-2 codec on their Windows install disc.

I have around 25 Blu-ray discs (mostly Pixar and Disney Platinum/Diamond titles). I would love to have Blu-ray support on the Mac (particularly burning support for iTunes backups). However, even I recognize it's a niche. Whether it's outpacing DVD sales at the same time during it's life cycle or not, it's still harder to find than DVD, it's more expensive to purchase, rental houses charge more for it and retail stores like Wal-Mart, Target and Best Buy relegate it to a single section or end-cap.

It's basically a more successful laserdisc.

As for licensing, Microsoft had to do some nasty things to get Windows Blu-ray compatible (including DRMing both your video and audio outputs). Blu-ray has three layers of DRM (HDCP, AACS and BD+) and a fourth that no one uses (BD Mark). I wouldn't want Apple to add all that crap to OS X (what they've did with QuickTime and HDCP for iTunes purchases is far enough). There's a reason no third-party has bothered to come up with a Blu-ray player for Mac. However, if Blu-ray licensing ever gets to the point where they can keep it all within a Blu-ray disc player application Apple or a third-party should do it.

 

[AidenShaw]

it's consistent - don't make everyone pay royalties if they don't have the hardware

No. What's pathetic is you can't even watch a Blu-ray movie on Windows 7 without additional third-party software (that usually ranges in the $50+ pricing category). It's NOT even a built-in feature of Windows 7.

Third party software which is bundled with every BD-equipped system and retail BD player/writer.

Which is a good way to avoid charging BD royalties to those who don't have BD players. Makes sense.

In fact, Windows for years didn't even include DVD video support. It wasn't until Vista that Microsoft finally shipped an MPEG-2 codec on their Windows install disc.

Did you realize that a DVD player is required for Vista disc installations? That pretty much meant that almost all systems had DVD players, and therefore the royalty issue became minor.
____________________

You may consider it to be pathetic, but it's the business model that Microsoft has been following for a long time.

And I'm sure if there were a story here saying the Microsoft starting bundling a DVD/BD codec, it would have tons of posts like "OMG the convicted monopolist is trying to kill WinDVD" .

 

[KnightWRX]

It's basically a more successful laserdisc.

Hum, no, it's basically a more successful DVD. Laserdisc never quite took off. Blu-ray is doing better than DVD was doing after the same time on market.

Look, in the beginning of DVD, it was a small section in stores, it was more expensive than VHS, there were less players in the wild, etc... All the same things you just used against Blu-ray. The fact is, Blu-ray is here to stay and will have a long life, just like DVD did.

Again, for the people who are so polarised : Blu-ray "winning" doesn't mean streaming has to "lose". Streaming "winning" doesn't mean Blu-ray has to "lose" either.

Both formats can coexist. I know it's hard to grasp for some of the Apple community that thinks in black and white, win or lose, 2nd place is the first loser, etc.. But it's really true. Choice is good, competition breeds innovation and different strokes for different folks, etc...

 

[linux2mac]

Really?

Check the Dell mini equivalent.

Starting price $299. (Quad core, 6 GiB, 750 GB, discrete 1 GiB graphics and BD is $749 - $50 cheaper than a C2D Mini mac with dual core, 2 GiB, 500 GB, integrated graphics and an optical drive from the last millenium.)

Has two eSATA ports (it's kind of "Flintstoney" not to have these today).

Radeon HD 4250 integrated graphics, or available discrete Radeon HD 5450 MXM graphics with 1 GiB of dedicated VRAM.

Quad core available. BD available. Up to 1 TB hard drive.
____________

I think that makes your Mini mac look like it came from Bedrock.

So what server OS is included in that cost? And the cost for a 100 client license?

 

[AidenShaw]

So what server OS is included in that cost? And the cost for a 100 client license?

Install the same Linux distro that you're running on your loud and noisy Dell PowerEdge tower.

Free.
_______________

But nice change of topic - since the earlier discussion was about Flintstone's technology, and now you're trying an argument based on OS licensing (without commenting on the far better specs of Dell's SFF).

 

[jmggs]

Very nice,

http://www.youtube.com/v/_YbmK3Zu0Os&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3

 

[JAT]

Hmm, for the first time this weekend I had a reason to want a BD burner. Needed to transfer a 20GB video file to another house. None of us have a USB stick over 16GB. Choice became: re-encode to lower quality, or find a portable drive of some sort. Meanwhile, even a one-layer BD-R would've been useful.

 

[weespeed]

Hmm, for the first time this weekend I had a reason to want a BD burner. Needed to transfer a 20GB video file to another house. None of us have a USB stick over 16GB. Choice became: re-encode to lower quality, or find a portable drive of some sort. Meanwhile, even a one-layer BD-R would've been useful.

We use portable drives, but it really sucks when clients forget where they put the 500gb OWC drives.

I'd much rather give out $1.50 25gb discs to clients then lose $130.00 Mercury Elite pro Drives.. Oh well, hope SJ changes his tune soon..

 

[AidenShaw]

Oh well, hope SJ changes his tune soon..

Jobs can be obstinate, or he can change his story overnight and pretend that he didn't. ("Who would watch video on an Ipod", or "Who needs 3G on an Iphone - Edge is fine" or "No need for applications on an Iphone, the Web is all you need" or "Intel CPUs are snails, PowerPCs are supercomputers".)

Unfortunately, it looks like he's adopted the obstinate stance in spite of all of the people asking for BD support in Apple OSX. (Ripping a BD to an MKV file and using an external 3rd party BD drive and downloading an open-source MKV video player is not "support in Apple OSX".)

 

[iEdd]

I'd much rather give out $1.50 25gb discs to clients then lose $130.00 Mercury Elite pro Drives.. Oh well, hope SJ changes his tune soon..

Wow, I just checked Amazon, and yep, you can get a spindle of 25 [Edit: spindle of 20] Verbatim (decent brand) for about $26.

Last time I checked (and right now, at the time of writing), one of the online retailers in Aus is selling them for ~$30 each or a 5 pack for $110.

But yeah, at just over $1 a pop, there really is no excuse now. Optical is still the best way to archive things safely. Unless Apple invent their own optical standard that surpasses Blu-Ray with no DRM, then Macs will have to adopt it eventually.

 

[iJoeB]

Apple is Jobs' world. His world, his rules, even if that means not listening to the people who choose to reside on it.

5 points to you buddy, it'll be up to Steve when Blu-Ray comes, if ever, to the Mac family. Meanwhile, I'll be using other routes to enjoy the magic of Blu-Ray.

 

[AidenShaw]

Unless the board regains their senses and ousts Jobs

Originally Posted by The Mad Mule

Apple is Jobs' world. His world, his rules, even if that means not listening to the people who choose to reside on it.

5 points to you buddy, it'll be up to Steve when Blu-Ray comes, if ever, to the Mac family. Meanwhile, I'll be using other routes to enjoy the magic of Blu-Ray.

Long term survival prospects are better if you listen to your potential customers.

When (not if) Android pops the Itoys bubble, Apple will miss not being able to fall back on a core customer base of creative professionals. The creatives who haven't already moved to other platforms are working on their migration plans. The recent XServe announcements sealed Apple's fate.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

if i'm hellen keller then you're timothy leary:
i've never said we shouldn't have any choice.
[or that i "wanted less choice" or whatever.]
i just haven't been as bitter about it as some.

Hah, you are right, of course. Although I'll take the Timothy Leary thing as a compliment (that would give me and Steve something in common). Blu-ray is my LSD! Have you seen some classic Disney animation on Blu-Ray? Scrumptious!

I will confess to getting you confused with posts like this:

Microsoft's ad mentioned above is pathetic. I do not want to watch Blu-Ray movies on a laptop screen or any computer screen. The only reason that Blu-Ray should be implemented into computers is so that they can be hooked up to a projector and displayed on projection screens.

Oh, well. The option would be nice, especially with how much the Mac Pros cost. Bundle in the cost for the "bag of hurt" in the BTO option for every Blu-ray player. No big deal, Steve.

 

[AidenShaw]

got any window pane?

Hah, you are right, of course. Although I'll take the Timothy Leary thing as a compliment (that would give me and Steve something in common).

Steve only stopped tripping when he realized that "window pane" sounded like a Microsoft product.

 

[linux2mac]

Install the same Linux distro that you're running on your loud and noisy Dell PowerEdge tower.

Free.
_______________

But nice change of topic - since the earlier discussion was about Flintstone's technology, and now you're trying an argument based on OS licensing (without commenting on the far better specs of Dell's SFF).

So Windows 7 is ok to use as a client, but not for server software then? I see.

 

[herro]

No. What's pathetic is you can't even watch a Blu-ray movie on Windows 7 without additional third-party software (that usually ranges in the $50+ pricing category). It's NOT even a built-in feature of Windows 7.

I just got a new PC with a Blu-Ray player/burner built-in. I didn't have to pay a cent for any third-party software nor have to download anything to make it work.

Additionally, with having a 23 inch monitor, you really can tell the difference between SD and HD. So anyone with a 27 inch iMac claiming they can't tell a difference are either blind or blinded by the turtleneck.

 

[Hal Itosis]

I just got a new PC with a Blu-Ray player/burner built-in. I didn't have to pay a cent for any third-party software nor have to download anything to make it work.

Additionally, with having a 23 inch monitor, you really can tell the difference between SD and HD. So anyone with a 27 inch iMac claiming they can't tell a difference are either blind or blinded by the turtleneck.

Bully for you. [if you need BD that badly, then what you did makes perfect sense to me... and Apple can't fault you either. So, what else?]

 

[linux2mac]

I just got a new PC with a Blu-Ray player/burner built-in. I didn't have to pay a cent for any third-party software nor have to download anything to make it work.

Additionally, with having a 23 inch monitor, you really can tell the difference between SD and HD. So anyone with a 27 inch iMac claiming they can't tell a difference are either blind or blinded by the turtleneck.

I prefer to watch BD's in my home theater on my Draper Onyx screen. After watching a BD movie in my home theater, watching a BD on my 27" iMac would be like watching a BD movie on the new LG 1080p 4" Android - oh wait, that doesn't have BD either - LOL

 

[gnychis]

apple wants the digital market... that's where they make money. not in providing support for technology where other people make money

 

[pr5owner]

So Windows 7 is ok to use as a client, but not for server software then? I see.

windows 7 pro/ent = client
windows server 2008 = server

I prefer to watch BD's in my home theater on my Draper Onyx screen. After watching a BD movie in my home theater, watching a BD on my 27" iMac would be like watching a BD movie on the new LG 1080p 4" Android - oh wait, that doesn't have BD either - LOL

you realize most PC's have HDMI out right? only Macs are the ones dragging their feet, on my HTPC i can have both a 23" monitor AND a TV hooked up to it. anyways that wasnt even his point, he was indicating if you have a 1080p monitor you can definately tell the diffrence between other lower resolutions and FULL HD

Bully for you. [if you need BD that badly, then what you did makes perfect sense to me... and Apple can't fault you either. So, what else?]

its probably not that he needs it that "badly" its just BD is the current standard, if apple doesnt want to be up to date with tech then so be it, this reminds me of the crappy core2duo's they are still using.

 

[Haoshiro]

But you miss something. It is all about view distance. At the distance a computer monitor is from your eyes (even a 13" one) it is inside the range were you can EASILY tell the difference between the HD and non HD quality.

Am I going to watch a lot of blu rays or DVD on my computer or laptop. No I am not. Some time I will have them play on my 2nd monitor while I am working on other threw my laptop because I can look up and watch it instead of having to turn around to see the TV behind me. Better for my work flow.

Or on a plane it another place. I do not want to have to buy 2 disk (one BluRay other DVD) just so I can watch the lesser quality one on the go.

I would rip my movies but getting around the DRM is sometimes a lot more trouble than it is worth.

I didn't say it wasn't detectable or noticeable, but specifically said doesn't "shine". The larger the screen the bigger the disparity.

The primary point still stands as well, if your wanting a high-quality viewing experience that isn't going to be on a tiny screen. The quality argument just doesn't stand up.

I'll give you the "buy twice" reason though, that's a decent argument for a BTO option.

For actual media creation and distribution there is always external HDD and flash sticks.

 

[linux2mac]

windows 7 pro/ent = client
windows server 2008 = server

Don't get caught up on semantics. I am just curious why he didn't recommend a Windows server instead of a Linux server.

you realize most PC's have HDMI out right?

Of course, but I am not really into PC's anymore. I use my Macs for work and have a dedicated home theater for HDMI devices. I wouldn't want to watch a BD movie on a 24", 27", or 30" display.

this reminds me of the crappy core2duo's they are still using.

I am having no trouble with all my C2D Macs as a LAMP developer - iMac, 13"MBP, and now Mini server. If I was a video professional then I would go i7 iMac or Mac Pro. In the year I have been a Mac convert, I have not had to spend any time fixing a driver issue, dealing with spyware, viruses, or just something not working like on my previous Windows based PC's. My Macs "just work!"

 

[michial]

Most videophiles will admit bluray is not noticeable under a 40 inch screen. Buy a 100 player and watch on tv. a downloadable 720 p movie on the 27 inch imac is just as detailed as the 1080p on my 50 inch plasma. Another missing ingredient on comps are the hidef audio codecs that are many times more stellar than the video of bluray. I agree that bluray for a computer is overkill.

 

[AidenShaw]

Most videophiles will admit bluray is not noticeable under a 40 inch screen. Buy a 100 player and watch on tv. a downloadable 720 p movie on the 27 inch imac is just as detailed as the 1080p on my 50 inch plasma. Another missing ingredient on comps are the hidef audio codecs that are many times more stellar than the video of bluray. I agree that bluray for a computer is overkill.

Most videophiles will admit Blu-ray is not noticeable under a 40 inch screen when viewed from living room distances.

BD 1080p quality is very noticeable on a 13" screen - when that screen is attached to the keyboard that's under your fingers.

As far as sound quality goes - nobody expects lossless 7.1 when they're listening via headphones on the airplane.