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Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

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Why do you say "certainly"?

JAT said:
I believe the point is about un-warned failure. It is certainly more likely that a HDD will provide some warning of impending doom than an SSD.
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Why do you say "certainly"?

SSDs support S.M.A.R.T., so they can give early warnings of impending failure just like a spinning drive.

If the SSD controller fails - that would be sudden, just like when a spinning hard drive controller fails.

Code: 
smartctl -a sdc
smartctl 5.40 2010-10-16 r3189 [i686-w64-mingw32-win7(64)] (sf-win32-5.40-1)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     SandForce Driven SSDs
Device Model:     OCZ-VERTEX2
Serial Number:    OCZ-L29O
Firmware Version: 1.24
User Capacity:    120,034,123,776 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 6
Local Time is:    Thu Dec 23 12:53:32 2010 PST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   116   100   050    Pre-fail  Always       -       0/138974153
  5 Retired_Block_Count     0x0033   100   100   003    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours_and_Msec 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       696h+01m+52.180s
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       6
171 Program_Fail_Count      0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
172 Erase_Fail_Count        0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
174 Unexpect_Power_Loss_Ct  0x0030   000   000   000    Old_age   Offline      -       2
177 Wear_Range_Delta        0x0000   000   000   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
181 Program_Fail_Count      0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
182 Erase_Fail_Count        0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   001   129   000    Old_age   Always       -       1 (0 127 0 129)
195 ECC_Uncorr_Error_Count  0x001c   116   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0/138974153
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0033   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
231 SSD_Life_Left           0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
233 SandForce_Internal      0x0000   000   000   000    Old_age   Offline      -       64
234 SandForce_Internal      0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       128
241 Lifetime_Writes_GiB     0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       128
242 Lifetime_Reads_GiB      0x0032   000   000   000    Old_age   Always       -       320
 
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AidenShaw said:
Why do you say "certainly"?

SSDs support S.M.A.R.T., so they can give early warnings of impending failure just like a spinning drive.

If the SSD controller fails - that would be sudden, just like when a spinning hard drive controller fails.
Click to expand...
% of people that will have that set to automatically pop up every day?
% that know how to use it at all?
% of people that know a HDD should not sound like a motorcycle or a kid falling off a bike on gravel?
:p
 
linux2mac said:
It may not be affordable to everyone right now, but it is available.
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I think the problem is it is neither affordable, nor available, to everyone now. The availability is the bigger issue in the US.

I'm lucky comcast even decided to offer service in my area, which started just last december!1 Not that they give a rat's @S$ about the quality of my connection, but they'll gladly take my money because nobody else will. ;)


This is why BD will lose out to streaming eventually.
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I think any reasonable person can concede this will happen... eventually. The big indicator will be when stores like Best Buy stop selling the discs.
 
JAT said:
% of people that will have that set to automatically pop up every day?
% that know how to use it at all?
% of people that know a HDD should not sound like a motorcycle or a kid falling off a bike on gravel?
:p
Click to expand...

My BIOS reports smart issues whenever I boot - so every few months it runs automatically.

There are also background services (even freeware) that will issue email or other alerts on S.M.A.R.T. issues - although your point is valid that few will understand the value (or the process) of setting these up. The OS should monitor S.M.A.R.T. conditions OOTB.

And, cute mental image aside, if your spinning hard disk drive sounds like a motorcycle or a bicycle accident you've probably already lost your data. I think the warning that people are talking about is clicking and pauses associated with the spinning hard disk drive doing a recal or other error recovery.

BTW, a Solid State Disk is a Hard Disk Drive - it's certainly hard, and it's certainly not a floppy disk.


PeterQVenkman said:
I think any reasonable person can concede this will happen... eventually. The big indicator will be when stores like Best Buy stop selling the discs.
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True, and currently Best Buy and Fry's are converting DVD aisles to BD aisles - the BD format is quickly expanding.

Meanwhile, what most people (in the US) get as "broadband" is inadequate for VHS-quality downloads. That's why Best Buy is expanding their BD sections!
 
Repo said:
Actually, it is.
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Of course! How could we have forgotten? Steve Jobs merely downloads a 50 gig Blu-ray into the iChip in your iBrain iImplant in less than seven seconds.

After farting it out of his rear end into the massive iFart iCloud at Apple HQ in Cupertino.

Which is far less ludicrous than any proof you've presented that infrastructure download speeds are adequate.

:apple:
 
Death is 'the future', but I'm not going to waste my life doing nothing while I wait for it.

Apple, you want to skate to where the puck will be, we get it. Just don't forget that if you aren't also skating where you are, you will fall flat on your backside, which in turn makes skating anywhere more difficult.
 
linux2mac said:
Now.

Comcast 105Mbps For $105
http://www.gizmocrunch.com/web/4304-comcast-extreme-105-high-speed
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In my area the highest speed internet providers are able to suck out of our infrastructure (overland copper phone lines...) is 4800 Kbps. The price we paid for a minor speed bump from 3000 Kbps are sudden connection drops about every 15 minutes or so.
It doesn't matter which provider or what kind of subscription plan I chose ($50 or $500 p/mt), that's the maximum speed our infrastructure allows. Period.

Unless I'm going to invest millions and build my own private high-speed network first, digital streaming in BD quality is still impossible here!

In fact the only movie download technology working reliable enough under such circumstances is... Bit Torrent!

Who do you think will be going to invest into the necessary broadband infrastructure outside of large cities during these hard times of economical crisis???

Digital streaming is not just about technological possibilities - it is as much about economical reality as well!
 
chillywilly said:
Actually, the iCloud is in North Carolina. :D
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Yeah, for the next five months.

And as soon as all the kinks are worked out and everyone is signed up, OFF TO INDIA.

P.S. Jobs' iFart iClouds are in Cupertino. Currently at Apple HQ, but soon enough at the local mental asylum. Look for the bald old man with a walker and an iPod not plugged into his ear, chattering to himself.

:apple:
 
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In the end of the day, for those of us with decent internet connections streaming is the future.

How well Netflix works is proof of that IMHO, and is the reason why you're starting to see fiber deployments on citywide scales with a view to making them countrywide in the coming years.

If your locale doesn't have decent internet, I would argue that it's because of two reasons: 1. Enough people don't want it to make it commercially viable, or 2. Noone has been bothered to build a plan to do it. I'm led to believe that several US municipalities are doing it on their own, there's no reason that you need to wait for big telco's to do it.
 
cheesymogul said:
In fact the only movie download technology working reliable enough under such circumstances is... Bit Torrent!
Click to expand...

That's one thing I've always wondered. Why aren't Apple, et. al. using BitTorrent or similar technology for all their downloads? With the popularity of the iTunes Store, it would be very effective?
 
ravenvii said:
That's one thing I've always wondered. Why aren't Apple, et. al. using BitTorrent or similar technology for all their downloads? With the popularity of the iTunes Store, it would be very effective?
Click to expand...

If they ever do, I'll be first in line to voice my irritation that I'm paying a premium for iContent whilst having to use my own upload bandwidth to get it.

There's plenty of sites on the internet that provide full throughput bandwidth to millions of users, why isn't "Apple, et. al." up to their quality?

Seems sad, but the best source of the best quality media with the best bandwidth is simply not available from 'legitimate' companies - That's what I'm after... My Mum can stick with itunes, she's heard of it off TV.
 
ravenvii said:
That's one thing I've always wondered. Why aren't Apple, et. al. using BitTorrent or similar technology for all their downloads? With the popularity of the iTunes Store, it would be very effective?
Click to expand...

Apple uses the Akamai distributed server network - most of the time the data comes from a local or nearby server, not from Apple's data centers.
 
KnightWRX said:
Need I say more ?
Click to expand...

You tell me.

I thought you "bowed out of the BD portion of this thread and I keep my word." :D

KnightWRX said:
I bowed out of the BD portion of this thread and I keep my word.
Click to expand...

KnightWRX said:
Blu-ray is available everywhere and 200$ per month is quite a bit of movies, and 250$ installation pays for your player, and then some. Not quite the NOW you were getting at ...

Not to mention getting movies online legally will set you back about the same price as the Blu-ray itself (from Apple), so in the end, you're better off just going to Best-buy for your movie entertainment.
Click to expand...

KnightWRX said:
And why are you again saying you don't want to backup the movies ? when you buy a Blu-ray disc, it is already backed up on a long lived medium. And if you lose that medium, you replace 1 movie, vs all the movies on your failed hard drive.
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KnightWRX said:
Forget the special features, unless you rip your own Blu-ray movies and preserve the quality (which is quite impossible unless you're not re-encoding anything), you cannot get the same quality in video and audio anywhere else to store on that hard drive.

Also, having a hard copy is nice. Backups are a good thing, hard drives are not long term storage media. If you lose the hard drive, you lose a lot of data. If I drop a disc or scratch it, I lose only a subset of my movie collection.

Optical media is here to stay for quite a few good years. Blu-ray is on an uphill, DVD still sells big numbers. It'll be 2020 before we even start thinking of phasing out this stuff, unless something even better comes along.
Click to expand...
 
VoR said:
If they ever do, I'll be first in line to voice my irritation that I'm paying a premium for iContent whilst having to use my own upload bandwidth to get it.

There's plenty of sites on the internet that provide full throughput bandwidth to millions of users, why isn't "Apple, et. al." up to their quality?

Seems sad, but the best source of the best quality media with the best bandwidth is simply not available from 'legitimate' companies - That's what I'm after... My Mum can stick with itunes, she's heard of it off TV.
Click to expand...

You know what though, when this happens it'll be cheaper and faster for *all* of us.
 
Mikey7c8 said:
You know what though, when this happens it'll be cheaper and faster for *all* of us.
Click to expand...

Most ISP's round the world have all sorts of caps and throttling - They also seem to put the smallest headroom and harshest caps on upload, to stop/deter the p2p'ers.
So if it ever happened, maybe it'll in fact be worse for everyone? Apple can increase their profit margin, and still have the upper hand by being able to blame the ISPs.
 
Mikey7c8 said:
In the end of the day, for those of us with decent internet connections streaming is the future.

How well Netflix works is proof of that IMHO
Click to expand...

You're saying that and you're from Montreal ? What magic Internet connexion do you have ?

Videotron ? Look at the caps/price/speed recently ?
Bell Fibe ? Yeah, it's available to like 4 people...

And Netflix ? It's pure garbage compared to Blu-ray discs. Illico TV has better quality and that isn't saying much.


linux2mac said:
You tell me.

I thought you "bowed out of the BD portion of this thread and I keep my word." :D
Click to expand...

Verizon Internet access has what to do with BD ? I decided to come back to BD for other posters which are both more mature and open minded than you are. Doesn't mean I can't just prove you wrong on other subjects. Your Verizon post was so much fail too.


Mikey7c8 said:
You know what though, when this happens it'll be cheaper and faster for *all* of us.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who's with either Bell or Videotron (and yes, Teksavvy or Akanak are just Bell) so either stuck with P2P throttling or caps galore. Torrenting paid content is the worst idea, it works for game patches, and then most people just end up grabing a direct download.
 
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KnightWRX said:
You're saying that and you're from Montreal ? What magic Internet connexion do you have ?

Videotron ? Look at the caps/price/speed recently ?
Bell Fibe ? Yeah, it's available to like 4 people...

And Netflix ? It's pure garbage compared to Blu-ray discs. Illico TV has better quality and that isn't saying much.




Verizon Internet access has what to do with BD ? I decided to come back to BD for other posters which are both more mature and open minded than you are. Doesn't mean I can't just prove you wrong on other subjects. Your Verizon post was so much fail too.
Click to expand...

You really don't get it. Some people get more satisfaction from realization that they use Apple products than they do from watching quality video :D They could watch video in 320i on iJunk and still believe that it's the best thing in the world.
 
lilo777 said:
You really don't get it. Some people get more satisfaction from realization that they use Apple products than they do from watching quality video :D They could watch video in 320i on iJunk and still believe that it's the best thing in the world.
Click to expand...

Sadly True
 
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