Just because something is 1080p doesn't mean it's not overly compressed. No "VOD" solution comes close to the bitrate of Blu-ray.
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Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon
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What's with this claim that those who want BD, want it for watching 1080p on a 15" screen? Yes, there are more than 720 vertical lines, so it makes a difference (certainly above DVD's 480 that Macs are limited to now), but the main point is hooking a Mac to home-theatre, eg. Mac Mini + TV Tuner with Blu-Ray connected via HDMI would make a cool setup. Of course 
TV rakes more money in that regard, motivating a push to sell it as the media Mac.
Wrong thread, but here are some ideas.
Microsoft: N/A (Okay, to be fair, some of their rebranded Logitech mice don't completely suck and the Xbox 360 is *ok*, or perhaps mention that a lot of their unearned money has helped charities, so it's not all bad.)
Apple: Mention the Apple I, the Mac, the iPod/iPhone, and NEXTStep+OSX. Basically everything that led to the personal computer as we know it today. You could also possibly say that Steve Jobs isn't around much anymore, so it's really hard for mum to work two jobs and look after you and your siblings.
TV rakes more money in that regard, motivating a push to sell it as the media Mac.Wrong thread, but here are some ideas.
Microsoft: N/A (Okay, to be fair, some of their rebranded Logitech mice don't completely suck and the Xbox 360 is *ok*, or perhaps mention that a lot of their unearned money has helped charities, so it's not all bad.)
Apple: Mention the Apple I, the Mac, the iPod/iPhone, and NEXTStep+OSX. Basically everything that led to the personal computer as we know it today. You could also possibly say that Steve Jobs isn't around much anymore, so it's really hard for mum to work two jobs and look after you and your siblings.
Did I say that? No. I'm pointing out that 1080p, 24 fps is available.
Good luck convincing your average Best Buy customer of the merits of bitrate differences, though. If watching habits in the UK are any indication, people either cannot tell the difference or, frankly, don't care enough.
LINK
Was at the MS Store over the weekend...
The new Samsung Lite Notebook (their MacBook Air "copy") and a lot of the new smaller laptops from Lenovo, HP, and Acer (up to 13") no longer have optical drives....
Looks like some companies are slowly fading out the optical drive as well...
In that case the Macbook air was a copy of the Sony VAIO VGN-X505VP
Ultra portables and netbook type devices don't have optical drives, as far as I am aware they never did. It is partly how they get them so thin and compact
In that case the Macbook air was a copy of the Sony VAIO VGN-X505VP
Ultra portables and netbook type devices don't have optical drives, as far as I am aware they never did. It is partly how they get them so thin and compact
I think there was one model of Sony which had a built in drive but I think that was more a 'test model' than something they would sell on mass. It pretty much doesn't make sense these days to have optical drives given how little most people use them these days. Years ago if you wanted to play games or access addition matter you needed one and used it on a regular basis but pretty much these days the only time I use it is to install software after a clean re-install of everything. I could probably get away with having a DVD-Drive free iMac and MacBook Pro with sharing the USB superdrive between the two if required.
Back onto BluRay - I don't see end users on mass running BluRay on their computers; if people watch movies they have a big television and a bluray player. Those who watch bluray movies on their laptop and desktop are few in number with their noise well out of proportion to their actual numbers.
Even if one accepts that argument, what blu-ray player will they use? A standalone player. A PS3. Or even a small form factor Windows PC. Not a mac though, which is a shame, because a mac mini would be perfect as the one machine under the TV that did it all... if only it did.
The whole argument that people will want to watch BR on their HD TV rather than on a (portable) computer overlooks the obvious (to me, anyway) case of people who buy BR to watch on TV but who might also want to watch the same film on the move.
I buy BR disks to watch on my 46" HD TV, but if I want to also watch them while travelling what am I supposed to do? Buy another DVD? Or, worse, buy a Windoze computer?
Come on Apple, get over yourselves and the 'bag of hurt'. It's not as if Apple has spread a little hurt itself before now.
I buy BR disks to watch on my 46" HD TV, but if I want to also watch them while travelling what am I supposed to do? Buy another DVD? Or, worse, buy a Windoze computer?
Come on Apple, get over yourselves and the 'bag of hurt'.
It's not as if Apple has spread a little hurt itself before now.Says someone who doesn't understand the benefits of hooking a Mac into a home theater system...
Not to mention, with Apple selling displays with resolutions HIGHER THAN HDTV (2560x1600), having the best video you can get at 1280x720 seems so wasteful.
Not to mention, I'll leave a little wiggle room, but won't anything delivered that way still be MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital? Very antiquated low-quality codecs compared to the ones offered on Blu-Ray.
In that case the Macbook air was a copy of the Sony VAIO VGN-X505VP
Ultra portables and netbook type devices don't have optical drives, as far as I am aware they never did. It is partly how they get them so thin and compact
In that case, the first true utlra thin ultraportable I can recall is the Thinkpad X series, which still manage to be lighter than the Macbook Air and cram in more features. They also have a docking architecture and modular accessory bays.
The one in the picture even has an optical drive.
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Um, I think that moment was a TV show on Netflix. So, the 2nd one.
Did both over the weekend. And last night I watched overcompressed 1080i via antenna. It claimed to be a "basketball game", but I saw no evidence of that.I should note that I only bring up the 1080i stuff because it looked worse than the Netflix 720 stuff.
For the price, I'll stick with the more consistent BD, thanks.
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I think I understand the benefits of a Mac in my home theater. And those benefits do not require BD in my Mini Server for me. I have a PS3 hooked up to my theater to play games and BD's. Why would I need BD on my Mini? I would use my Mini to stream my movie collection. So how is Mac inferior as a HTPC because my Mini Server lacks BD? Even if I hooked up Windows garbage with BD to my theater system, the BD player in that would go unused. Tell me again folks why I need BD in my Macs?
You wouldn't. But not everyone has a PS3. I don't, and I don't want to buy one just to use it as a Blu-Ray player (because I wouldn't be playing any games on it). I want exactly one device running my theater. One. Not an HTPC+PS3. Just an HTPC. I think the Mac Mini would be the best HTPC out there, except it can't play Blu-Ray, so it can't solve the basic requirement of one device running my theater.
I wish Apple would get over themselves and offer Blu-Ray as an option on their computers (particularly the Mini for me). I'd be perfectly fine paying extra to cover that "bag of hurt" cost. I want the perfect HTPC.
A PC, regardless of OS, can't be the only device, or it's not a "theater". The only device that should be considered to "run" a theater is your remote control, everything else should just fade to the background and be hidden away, anyway. Well, other than putting optical discs into something, but some even do away with that.
Mine is run by one universal remote and an Apple Magic Trackpad. (keyboard too, but mainly only for using the computer as a computer)
In that case the Macbook air was a copy of the Sony VAIO VGN-X505VP
Ultra portables and netbook type devices don't have optical drives, as far as I am aware they never did. It is partly how they get them so thin and compact
The Samsung had "folding ports" so it made it MORE OF A COPY of the MacBook Air...
But, I guess transitive property....
I think the new MacBook $999 will be Aluminum (again), thinner, and forgo the optical - Apple has the External Superdrive - it's not just for MacBook Airs anymore...
could you imagine how much the price would increase if they added blu-ray?
i already can't afford a mac, let alone if they add blu-ray. I'll need to take out a line of credit to afford that drive.
i already can't afford a mac, let alone if they add blu-ray. I'll need to take out a line of credit to afford that drive.
could you imagine how much the price would increase if they added blu-ray?
i already can't afford a mac, let alone if they add blu-ray. I'll need to take out a line of credit to afford that drive.
On a slim laptop a burner goes for $500 extra I believe and that's Sony pricing. BR- combo added I think is $150, again Sony pricing. So probably $200 more added on as a BTO if Apple does it.
I was wondering if those Hollywood jerks and company are getting ready for a new media format since Blu is hitting that 5+ year life area. If they replace it that soon I will never buy another movie. Rent/Stream from then on. I got a gut feeling that it will happen when they push 4k or whatever gimmicky BS they try.
I want to see a format last a good 20 years, but that may be asking too much.
I think I understand the benefits of a Mac in my home theater. And those benefits do not require BD in my Mini Server for me. I have a PS3 hooked up to my theater to play games and BD's. Why would I need BD on my Mini? I would use my Mini to stream my movie collection. So how is Mac inferior as a HTPC because my Mini Server lacks BD? Even if I hooked up Windows garbage with BD to my theater system, the BD player in that would go unused. Tell me again folks why I need BD in my Macs?
Why do you need two machines to meet your home theater needs instead of just one? Do you also want to add a separate CD player, a separate DVD player, a separate streaming device like Roku, etc?
Your Mac is inferior as a HTPC precisely because it cannot play BD. It can play almost everything but. What sense does it make that it does almost everything except the highest quality movies on a mainstream format? Further, there are myriad reasons DVD/BD playback on a HTPC is beneficial -- region coding bypass, archive to hard disk, lots of signal processing that you just can't get on a set top player (frame interpolation, image enhancement, PAL framerate adjustment to NTSC, the list goes on and on).
The very fact that you need a PS3 spells the problem out for you. In fact, if I had to live with only one machine, I'd pick the PS3 over the Mac Mini, because the $300 game console does more than the $3000 Macintosh. In fact, since the PS3 supports Netflix, et al, why do you even need the Mac?
could you imagine how much the price would increase if they added blu-ray?
i already can't afford a mac, let alone if they add blu-ray. I'll need to take out a line of credit to afford that drive.
When they removed firewire, the price went up.
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Will my Denon receiver and HD DVR/cable receiver fit in the Mini too? I can't wait to buy that all in one computer with AV receiver, DVR/cable receiver built in along with all the gaming devices. LOL. Thanks.
Double LOL. Tell that to the pros in the Final Cut thread.
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/05/apple-to-introduce-new-final-cut-pro-on-april-12th/
One guy pretty much summed it up.
For the power and stability of a *NIX system.
+1
I wouldn't bet too much about BD capturing the imagination of the public anytime soon for several reasons. It's share of the physical media market (ie BD vs DVD) has been stuck in the teens the last few years.
According to the Digital Entertainment Group, with the help of the Consumer Electronics Association, only 170 million BDs were shipped in 2010 versus almost 343 million DVDs in just the fourth quarter alone. That hardly seems like BD has become "the standard."
Furthermore, nearly half of all TVs sold in the US are 720p thus negating the argument for BD's 1080p, not to mention those 1080p TV buyers have to have certain viewing circumstances to even benefit from the 1080p provided by Blu-Ray.
If the studios had wanted to keep us mired in physical media, they should have pushed for 4K over Blu-Ray from the start. The file size of a 4K movie and its superior picture quality would have been much harder for VOD and streaming to compete. Now, after the HD-DVD debacle and Blu-Ray's inability to capture the hearts and minds of the public at large, people are going to be much more hesitant to get behind another medium they'll need to spend a lot of money converting over to.
As for portable computers, if the MacBook Air and iPad sales are any indication, it seems optical drives will soon be joining floppies in the dustbin of history.
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I have LD, DVD, BD, Mini. All separate. Why wouldn't you if you have a real theater and a real desire for quality? My DVDp still beats the BDp for DVDs, so there's no reason to retire it. And I weighed something like Tivo, but went with the Mini instead. For similar prices I got a TV DVR, computer, streaming device, and server for my owned media. The Tivo only offered DVR and streaming. (although, a MUCH better DVR)
$3000 Mac Mini? I guess I can just assume you were mixing your models when you typed that.
Not everybody uses terms correctly. HT is a real term, use it correctly. When I find I'm talking to people that have an entire TV/speakers/DVD/BD setup that costs less than my subwoofer, I begin ignoring them.
You seem to be pretty good at neglecting the fact that angle of view is much more important in movie experience than the physical size of the screen.
"Back onto CD - I don't see end users on mass running CD on their computers; if people listen music they have a big sound system and a CD player. Those who listen music on their laptop and desktop are few in number with their noise well out of proportion to their actual numbers."
"Back onto DVD - I don't see end users on mass running DVD on their computers; if people watch movies they have a big television and a DVD player. Those who watch DVD movies on their laptop and desktop are few in number with their noise well out of proportion to their actual numbers.
Ever thought about beaty of computers?
You don't need separate typewriter. Or e-mail reader. Or radio. Or webcam.
Or ever thought about how stupid are laptop manufacturers and buyers. Every year tens of millions of optical drives are bought inside computers and nobody uses them.
Hopefully someone will wake as from this grand conspiracy and hallucination that we actually need and use these optical drives and guides us to the right path which is called iTunes!
For mobility and saving space, money, energy and enviroment.
You can have separate players for audio cd's that are painted blue and another for red, but you do realize that most people don't want to carry & use separate ipod & iphone at the same time. They even enjoy playing their all optical media in just one drive. And they don't want to buy same content several times for each device.
Even Apple thinks that you shouldn't buy separate e-book reader. Or maybe just one for used in sunny weather outside and the other one in every other situation.
But Apple isn't recommending for you to buy separate bd-player. They act like bd does not exist just for the profits from itunes. Apple wins, mac user looses.
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Do you actually have a space in your home that you call "theater"? Because all your rants about 6 different problems with various electronics devices in this post has little to do with the post you quoted (mine), so I'm just wondering what on earth you are talking about. This thread is somewhat extensive, not every post is identical.
Well, let's follow your absurd logic to its conclusion -- a separate device for every function. You're going to quickly run out of inputs on your Denon.
Maybe you should sell your Mac Mini and get lots of yellow sticky notes, a typewriter, a calcuator, and all the other things it replaces too.
(And BTW Elgato makes a very nice DVR/cable receiver for the Mac, it even automatically converts TV shows you record for your iPad/iPhone and lets you watch your TV shows remotely, even over 3G. See what neat things a true HTPC can do for you?).
Here's a very simple question to prove my point -- does your Mac Mini ever play movies? Be they Netflix, iTunes, DVD, or any other source?
If the answer is "yes", then why can't it play the best format when it can play all the lesser ones?
You need a *NIX system in your home theater?
* and you can run Linux on a PS3, so you still don't need the Mac. Yet another example of the $300 toy being more flexible than the $3000 computer.
You do realize your 2nd paragraph contradicts your first, right? 170 million units shipped is 1/3 of the total. 170 / (170+343) = 1/3. It would seem that Blu-Ray's share of the physical media market has not been stuck in the teens, by your own words, and at 1/3 market share it is a force to be reckoned with, not something that is "dying" in any way.
And I'm sure a lot of people here would be happy if Apple had market share either stuck in the teens or at 1/3.
We're stuck with DVD, at 480p, and Blu-Ray, with 1080p. There is no 720p-native format. Thus, a 1080p image downscaled to 720p is superior to a 480p image upscaled to 720p, and Blu-Ray is beneficial even to those stuck with 720p displays.
Further, most 720p displays aren't even real 720p (for example, they are often repurposed computer display panesl at 1360x768, which is not an ATSC standard at all and you will never see the native resolution -- an even better reason to feed it the best signal, 1080p).
Quite an interesting straw man you have there, to have it both ways, since the movie studios would have to be pushing for a format that had no way to play since nobody makes 4K televisions and the highest-resolution consumer displays are 2560x1600.
On one side you say most people have 720, on the other side you are pining for 4K.
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We're on the same side here, but I'll step up.
Why on Earth would anybody still have a LD player hooked up? I have two, and still have LDs but LONG AGO transferred anything I wanted to DVD. And yes, I have a scaler, but revisiting letterboxed analog LaserDiscs that need an FM modulator for digital surround is something I can let go of. You don't still have a VCR hooked up, do you?
I challenge that. If anything, Blu-Ray players have built in upscaling for DVDs and feature newer interconnects and more advanced DACs. This is coming from someone who bought a $1000 Sony 7700 reference quality DVD player. If you have an old DVD player, it's got older DACs and you're undergoing unneccessary D->A and back to A->D by your TV. Oh, did you not know component video is analog? Unless you have an analog display in that "Theater" of yours. If you have a newer DVD player with HDMI, why bother with it when the Blu-Ray player does the same?
Not to mention, if you have a "real desire for quality", you wouldn't be messing around with DVD anymore in the first place.
Because you don't need them and it's unnecessary complexity, clutter, and confusion when a HTPC can do it all, better, in one unified place. The HTPC is the crossroads of the media world, the only thing that does it all.
CD player, really? Rip those suckers into iTunes losslessly and stop flipping discs -- AND get album art, metadata, and searchability in the process.
DVD player? Rip them and put them on the mini -- or use a PC based player and get great features that you can't get on a set-top box such as region code busting and ability to skip unskippable ads. You can even rip to ISO so you don't lose a thing.
Blu-Ray player? Your HTPC can do that too. Well, if it isn't a Mac, it can. You can still rip to MKV or make an ISO.
HD-DVD player? Yep, your HTPC can play them too.
Got Vinyl? Me too. But no need to play disc jockey -- rip it to 96/24 and put it in your media server. And fix pops and clicks with ClickRepair -- and get album art, metadata, and searchability on top of it.
Got a DVD-Audio player and a SACD player? I do. Separate ones, and I have a combo player for good measure. Gone -- ripped to my HTPC so I can listen to anything regardless of source -- without switching inputs and flipping discs. Two players eliminated, two sets of 6 channel analog cables eliminated. Jewel cases eliminated. Spinning plastic eliminated. Scratches eliminated. Album art, metadata, and random access added. Same reason you rip your CDs. Why should your better-than-CD music have to live in a physical disc ghetto?
Like hi-res music like you can get on HDTracks, such as the new 96/24 remaster of Moving Pictures or the Stones back catalog in 176/24? I suppose you could burn a PCM DVD in 96/24if you want to hear it on a stand-alone player for some reason. Of you could just, you know, play it on your HTPC.
Want to catch something on Hulu or Youtube? Or did your DVR miss an episode of your favorite show but you can catch it on the network website in HD? No problem, HTPC.
I suppose I could buy a combo player like the Oppo 95, which plays CD, HDCD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD, Blu-Ray, FLAC, Netflix, and Blockbuster -- but still doesn't do everything and costs as much as a PC, and you still have to play disc jockey. Or you could buy an all-in-one media player like Popcorn Hour, but that still requires a PC to create the content and set-top boxes always get left behind when the next big format comes along.
That's the point of an HTPC -- enjoy all your media, from any source, at your fingertips. And get rid of bookcases full of jewel cases. And the record player. And the DVD-Audio player. And the SACD player. And the minidisc player. And the DAT deck. And the CD player. And the DVD player. And the Blu-Ray player. And the HD-DVD player. And the LD player and its separate FM modulator for DTS (and only DTS). And the VCR. And the tape deck. And the DVR. And the DLNA media player. And the SiriusXM tuner. And the game console.
Home Theater is great -- even greater to have all your media plus the streaming media of the internet at your fingertips on a HTPC and media server instead of running into a server closet and flipping discs and turning on one of a half-dozen players depending on what you want.
Want to listen to one song from Vinyl, then one from a DVD-A, then one from an SACD, then one from a Blu-Ray? Trivial on a HTPC, a daunting drudgery with separate components. See, that's the point -- quality being equal, it's the CONTENT that matters, not the vessel that contains it. THAT's why you don't need separate players even if you care about quality.
Unless you just like showing off your five foot tall rack of piano black plastic with little red lights in different places and a chamber pot filled with remote controls... At one point I guess I liked confusing visitors with the unnecessary tower of complexity. Now I like simplicity and power. That's why I'd love to see a Blu-Ray equipped Mac Mini.
Yes, buying a good 15" MacBook Pro or a Mac Pro will cost $3k. And neither has HDMI, multichannel audio, or Blu-Ray.
Form factor sexiness aside, I wouldn't consider a Mac Mini to be the best HTPC because of its outdated processor and underwhelming video card, as well as its other overall slow laptop-sourced components.
Not sure if you're implying that's me, but since linux2mac is always dropping names, I'll follow suit; my setup costs north of $15k (65" Panny THX Plasma, Yamaha THX receiver, Definitive 6.1 speakers, 3 powered subs, HTPC, 3D Blu-Ray, DVDO scaler, and more not including equipment that's been replaced by the HTPC, the Boltz stainless steel media racks and the lay-z boys and custom room decoration and seating platform). There is a graveyard of banished equipment and physical media in my basement. If you have a $15k subwoofer I'd like to visit your HT setup. A HTPC is a great choice for unifying all media sources (and adding more that you can't even get in a set-top player) -- which is why it's sad that a Mac can't be the ultimate HTPC because it doesn't support Blu-Ray, or (aside from the latest Mini) HDMI or multichannel audio.
Interestingly, you and Linux2Mac reach the same conclusion from two different starting points. You agree that a PC has no place in a home theater, for vastly different reasons.
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