Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[MacNewsFix]

You do realize your 2nd paragraph contradicts your first, right? 170 million units shipped is 1/3 of the total. 170 / (170+343) = 1/3. It would seem that Blu-Ray's share of the physical media market has not been stuck in the teens, by your own words, and at 1/3 market share it is a force to be reckoned with, not something that is "dying" in any way.

And I'm sure a lot of people here would be happy if Apple had market share either stuck in the teens or at 1/3.

170 million BDs shipped in all of 2010.

343 million DVDs shipped in Q4 2010 alone.

We're stuck with DVD, at 480p, and Blu-Ray, with 1080p. There is no 720p-native format.

If you are talking strictly physical media, you are probably correct. However, a lot of people watch OTH television, streamed films, HD cable, and purchase digital films in 720p. In fact, a large percentage of people watch HD TVs thinking they are getting HD when they are actually watching SD.

Quite an interesting straw man you have there, to have it both ways, since the movie studios would have to be pushing for a format that had no way to play since nobody makes 4K televisions and the highest-resolution consumer displays are 2560x1600.

On one side you say most people have 720, on the other side you are pining for 4K.

I am having hard time understanding your argument here. I was simply agreeing with another poster that, like me, is frustrated by the path the movie studios and electronic manufacturers chose to pursue; a point of view, I might add, that seems to gel with a very large segment of the population. I'm not seeing anywhere near the level of exuberance displayed as when DVDs came out.

The fact that a large segment is going with 720p TVs over 1080p TVs means they do not feel compelled to invest in the televisions necessary to get the full benefit of 1080p. If you read through the thread, you'll find some people here believe anything that is not 1080p, 24fps, and with the bitrate provided by BD is a so inferior as to not warrant discussion. Many of those same people argue that the high infiltration of HD TVs indicated Blu-Ray is taking off. I'm simply pointing out that half of HD TVs are 720p. I am not telling people to run out and buy a 720p TV.

As for current 720p TV sales (given as an example of future trends) and my own predilection for a higher fidelity format if we are going to stick with physical media (given as my hope for the future), I'm not sure how together they can be construed as a straw man argument.

Believe it or not, there have been 4K televisions released (LINK) and more likely on the way soon (LINK and LINK and LINK). Pioneer has a receiver out supporting 4K, and I believe every TV manufacturer had 4K TVs on display at their booths at CES this year. 4K TVs are even winning awards at trade shows. Let me beat you to the punch and say that, unless you get a really tiny one, they're going to be very expensive for the next few years. Hopefully, by that time, the studios will have decided if they want to release movies in 4K.

The point I was making about 4K was that, if we're to be encumbered with physical media while books, music, and the rest of the world is gravitating to digital, mobile, and on demand, at least make it a great deal more sharp than what Blu-Ray is offering and much, much, much better than I can rent on Vudu (ie HDX). Not that Google and *cough* others *cough* are not already working on figuring out how to stream 4K resolution.

Cheers.

 

[AidenShaw]

A shrinking, minority share....

The fact that a large segment is going with 720p TVs over 1080p TVs means they do not feel compelled to invest in the televisions necessary to get the full benefit of 1080p.

It's a "large" segment, but also a "minority" segment. 1080p now outsells 720p.

And, it would be interesting to compare the revenue per segment, since the 1080p TVs probably sell for higher prices. (Some Apple fans seem to go ecstatic when comparing revenue vs. units ).

 

[xIGmanIx]

Don't forget market cap, profit and cash. All of which is absurd, i never say my car is great because it's market cap is higher than any other car on the road

It's a "large" segment, but also a "minority" segment. 1080p now outsells 720p.

And, it would be interesting to compare the revenue per segment, since the 1080p TVs probably sell for higher prices. (Some Apple fans seem to go ecstatic when comparing revenue vs. units ).

 

[MacNewsFix]

It's a "large" segment, but also a "minority" segment. 1080p now outsells 720p.

Until next quarter. LOL

And, it would be interesting to compare the revenue per segment, since the 1080p TVs probably sell for higher prices. (Some Apple fans seem to go ecstatic when comparing revenue vs. units ).

Gee, and I was going to say the same thing about the Blu-Ray industry/proponents. Trying to find actual sales numbers is often like searching for the Holy Grail and all too absent from press releases.

 

[AidenShaw]

Until next quarter. LOL.

What do you know about next quarter's sales?

Would you be my stock advisor???

 

[MacNewsFix]

What do you know about next quarter's sales?

Go to the bottom of post 5617 and click on the large graph. Notice a trend?

Would you be my stock advisor???

No, but thanks for the compliment!!!

 

[blastvurt]

170 million BDs shipped in all of 2010.

343 million DVDs shipped in Q4 2010 alone.

Is your figure for US & Canada?

As the total blu ray shipments for US & Canada in 2008 were 63.154, so the format is growing. Also if memory serves correct Blu ray has so far outpassed DVD growth at the same point in its life.

Not bad for a "dead" format as many people refer to it as

 

[Porco]

Go to the bottom of post 5617 and click on the large graph. Notice a trend?

er... yeah - the graph clearly shows that 1080p TVs have increased their percentage of the US TV market year on year. I don't understand the point you're trying to make with that (are you misreading the graph perhaps? The left half shows years, the right half switches to quarters - 2010 is represented in both instances, and still shows an increase on 2009).

1080p TV sales have gone up as they become available at reasonable prices at all sizes that benefit from the resolution. The rate of increase will probably level off as it becomes less important for the smaller screen sizes to be 1080p, but if you are expecting any sustained and significant reverse in the trend being towards 1080p TVs I think you're mistaken.

I also think you're mistaken to assume that because any 720p TVs still sell it follows that no-one cares about resolution in general. It's just that if, for example, you're buying a 22 inch TV for the kitchen you shouldn't care in the same way as when you buy a 40+ inch TV for the living room. People still buy small TVs where 720p is perfectly adequate at average viewing distances.

Also, the pie chart you showed is highly disingenuous when taken out of context like that. Yes, DVD sales are down on those results almost all the time now, but Blu-ray sales are usually showing a marked increase on the same week from the previous year. Fluctuations will occur because of particular titles skewing the results, you have to look at the trend longer than plucking one week out that suits your argument.

 

[janstett]

170 million BDs shipped in all of 2010.

343 million DVDs shipped in Q4 2010 alone.

Whoops, my bad.

I put my trust in The Digital Bits, a site which I've followed since DVD was first test-marketed in 1997.

SOFTWARE MARKET SHARE - BD VS DVD (YTD through 3/5/11 - Nielsen/VideoScan):
Week End. 3/5
Blu-ray Disc: 24 DVD: 76


I have to do some digging, but recent blockbusters like Avatar see rates even higher than 25% (I'll get back on that).

EDIT:

The first "big hit" on Blu-Ray was 2008's The Dark Knight, which saw Blu-Ray account for 1/4 of all disc sales. This was 2 1/2 years ago. Source.

More recently, Avatar became the best-selling Blu-Ray by selling 2.7 mlllion copies in 4 days -- and 1.2 million discs on the first day alone (doubling the record set by Dark Knight's first day sales). Source. Of Avatar's first four days of sales, Blu-Ray accounted for 2.7 million discs, and DVD accounted for 4 million discs. That's 40% Blu-Ray.

Iron Man 2 was even more impressive for Blu-Ray. First week sales were 52% Blu-Ray and 48% DVD. Source.

Clearly, not only is the format not dying, it is growing rapidly, and in a down economy too. It's obvious that Blu-Ray is beyond critical mass and it's only logical for Apple to support both Blu-Ray and DVD, or support neither.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa186.html

The general belief among studio decision-makers seems to be that we're now crossing a threshold or tipping point for the market. Catalog sales are increasing (reportedly double-digit growth) and enough Blu-ray players are now in the hands of consumers to warrant greater catalog efforts. I don't think it's any mistake that studios like Universal have recently stepped up their catalog BD efforts, and I would expect that trend to continue from all the major studios going forward. Certainly, the recent announcement that the Star Wars films are coming to the format next year can only help encourage this.

Now then, during the afternoon session at Blu-Con, Andy Parsons (SVP of Pioneer Electronics and chair of the Blu-ray Disc Association's U.S. Promotions Committee) gave a presentation on the current state of the Blu-ray format that included some statistics and information I thought you might all be interested to hear. Andy was kind enough to provide me with a copy of his report (Thanks, Andy!), so here at the specifics...

By the end of 2010, there are expected to be 25 million U.S. households with TV-connected Blu-ray playback devices, including stand-alone players and PS3. (Source: Adams Media Research) Considering that there are currently some 115 million U.S. TV households (estimated by Neilsen), that means Blu-ray is installed in over 1/5 (and is approaching 1/4) of all U.S. TV households.

The adoption curve for Blu-ray is fairly consistent with that of DVD in its first 5 years (there were roughly about 30 million DVD players in U.S. homes at the end of the same period, including stand-alone players and PS2).

By 2015, Blu-ray format penetration is expected to hit 45% in the U.S., with some 20% of that capacity BD3D capable.

There are currently over 3,000 Blu-ray software titles available in the States. At the same time, the unit sales numbers for Blu-ray software are effectively doubling every year. This year, they're up 116%, or 94% for 2009. (Source: Adams Media Research)

BD player sales in Europe are increasing steadily as well, with a current 10.9 million installed players today, and a projected 30.7 million installed by 2014. (Source: Futuresource Consulting)

BD players also dominate in Japan - 65% of all videodisc hardware in the country is Blu-ray, compared to 35% standard DVD. (Source: GfK Japan)

On the Blu-ray 3D front, 19 models of BD3D player are now available, with more due at CES. The expectation is that by the end of next year, anyone buying a new, affordable Blu-ray player model will have a hard time finding one that DOESN'T have 3D capability.

Currently, there are 1.8 million 3D HDTVs in the U.S., compared to 39.3 million regular HDTVs. By 2015, there are expected to be 27.1 million 3D HDTVs in the U.S. compared to 45.3 million regular HDTVs. (Source: Futuresource Consulting)

 

[MacNewsFix]

er... yeah - the graph clearly shows that 1080p TVs have increased their percentage of the US TV market year on year. I don't understand the point you're trying to make with that (are you misreading the graph perhaps? The left half shows years, the right half switches to quarters - 2010 is represented in both instances, and still shows an increase on 2009).

The graph clearly shows that, even though 1080p may overtake 720p sets in one quarter, it does not mean 100% that 1080p will continue to dominate, as there has been some back and forth. My point in sharing it with the other poster is in response to some that claim HD TV sales are greatly tied to growth in popularity of Blu-Ray 1080p picture. Again, a lot of sources of 720p content, not to mention a lot of people watching SD content on HD TVs thinking they are watching HD.

1080p TV sales have gone up as they become available at reasonable prices at all sizes that benefit from the resolution. The rate of increase will probably level off as it becomes less important for the smaller screen sizes to be 1080p, but if you are expecting any sustained and significant reverse in the trend being towards 1080p TVs I think you're mistaken.

I could not agree more that, as 1080p TVs have become cheaper to manufacture and come down (especially in the last two to three years), their adoption has gone up. I would not be surprised if 720p sets eventually stop being made as it may become just as cost-efficient to crank out a 1080p set; when that's the case, the manufacturers will likely try to get even the sub 42" buyer to upgrade to 1080p even though the benefit of 1080p on such a small size has long been argued a waste.

I also think you're mistaken to assume that because any 720p TVs still sell it follows that no-one cares about resolution in general.

When did I even say nobody cares about resolution in general? I, for one, bought a 1080p TV specifically over 720p. However, it was not to watch Blu-Ray.

It's just that if, for example, you're buying a 22 inch TV for the kitchen you shouldn't care in the same way as when you buy a 40+ inch TV for the living room. People still buy small TVs where 720p is perfectly adequate at average viewing distances.

Agreed. However, aren't we going to now get hammered by people saying it is the viewing angle that's most important and not the size?

Also, the pie chart you showed is highly disingenuous when taken out of context like that. Yes, DVD sales are down on those results almost all the time now, but Blu-ray sales are usually showing a marked increase on the same week from the previous year. Fluctuations will occur because of particular titles skewing the results, you have to look at the trend longer than plucking one week out that suits your argument.

How is it "out of context?" Should I have chosen a week that showed Blu-Ray growth and not the latest data provided? I didn't choose that week specifically on purpose to push my own agenda but rather to be current. I agree that a particular release will skew the results. Just look at Avatar on BD and how Blu-Ray enthusiasts love talking about the sales number for Blu-Ray during the weeks right after its release. The fact remains that, years after its release and the stratospheric fall of DVDs, Blu-Ray sales still account for less than 1 in 5 movies purchased.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Whoops, my bad.

No worries, and thanks for the information and recommendation for thedigitalbits.com. I'll have to check it out.

Look, let me start by pointing out that I was simply responding to someone with whom I agreed. You want Blu-Ray, God bless and good luck. I'm not stopping you, and I doubt what transpires in this thread will make or break its success. Many here act like it does and, instead of this being a collegial debate, it devolves into exchanges reminiscent of something from a pre-school playground. Present company excluded.

I can certainly empathize with many searching for the optimal viewing and audio experience. As someone that was a proponent of Beta over VHS and a fan of LaserDisk and suffered the hurdles for whom many early adopters contend (there were only two places to rent LDs in the Twin Cities), I have been there before. Now, being older (and hopefully wiser -LOL) and knowing the value of money a little more, I tend to tread more carefully. Based on what I am seeing both anecdotally and empirically makes me believe that, while Blu-Ray may overtake DVDs at some point, it will be a very short-lived victory. I believe that, besides the world going mobile, people are gravitating more and more to video on-demand.

Think of it like a horse race. You have DVD at the front with Blu-Ray slowly gaining on it. However, in the back, you have that "dark horse" (and that's stretching it, as it almost seems like another on-demand service comes online daily) that is going to sprint by Blu-Ray in the last leg of the race.

That is not to say there are things that could alter the course of things to come. Global economics, service caps, the introduction of 4K on Blu-Ray are but a few things that could change the game. Further, it remains to be seen whether a 4K roll out on Blu-Ray will require upgrading our players but it will most definitely mean upgrading our TV sets. Will people be willing to do so again so soon? I'm not so sure.

P.S. If you read my reply to Porco, I mention Avatar. Completely a coincidence and not a veiled insult at you. I hadn't even read your post until after I had responded to him. Again, no disrespect meant and hope none taken.

 

[xIGmanIx]

I think a point of friction is being told simply wanting the option is near sighted and obtuse simply because apple sees it as pirating their golden goose

 

[LethalWolfe]

Think of it like a horse race. You have DVD at the front with Blu-Ray slowly gaining on it. However, in the back, you have that "dark horse" (and that's stretching it, as it almost seems like another on-demand service comes online daily) that is going to sprint by Blu-Ray in the last leg of the race.

The idea that it's an all or nothing situation is flawed, IMO, and withholding from Blu-ray now simply because streaming may become a better solution at some indeterminate time in the future is like saying don't buy a conventional car today because sometime in the future you won't be able to find gas for it because everything is moving away from the internal combustion engine towards electric. Sure, someday Blu-ray will be end-of-lifed but I don't think that's going to happen for a very long time. Hell, CDs are still outselling legal downloads and the music industry is commonly used as a barometer for the tv/film industry.

As a consumer what I love right now is that we have more choice than ever and I'd like to keep it that way. I like that people have choices between legal downloads and streaming services and buying physical media (whether it's Blu-ray, CD or vinyl). Blu-ray doesn't have to kill downloads to remain viable and vice-versa. These technologies can co-exist and service different niches.


Lethal

 

[jdogg836]

170 million BDs shipped in all of 2010.

343 million DVDs shipped in Q4 2010 alone

Here's the rub. 2/3 of the Blu-rays I've bough in the past year have come with a DVD copy, these do count toward DVD sales. This number is up from the previous year where it was less than half and the year before that when less than 25% did.

The so-called "convenience" copy is giving the impression that the ratio isn't coming much closer together.

 

[MacNewsFix]

The idea that it's an all or nothing situation is flawed, IMO, and withholding from Blu-ray now simply because streaming may become a better solution at some indeterminate time in the future is like saying don't buy a conventional car today because sometime in the future you won't be able to find gas for it because everything is moving away from the internal combustion engine towards electric. Sure, someday Blu-ray will be end-of-lifed but I don't think that's going to happen for a very long time. Hell, CDs are still outselling legal downloads and the music industry is commonly used as a barometer for the tv/film industry.

I didn't say it was all or nothing. I was alluding to popularity and, ultimately, dominance. Heck, even DVDs still have several more years before being laid out to pasture.

As for CDs....
http://music.einnews.com/article.php?oid=NR8IR1GS95qAO8E

The advent of subscription services like Spotify, GrooveShark, Pandora and Last.fm are eating into sales both of CDs and digital downloads.

As a consumer what I love right now is that we have more choice than ever and I'd like to keep it that way. I like that people have choices between legal downloads and streaming services and buying physical media (whether it's Blu-ray, CD or vinyl). Blu-ray doesn't have to kill downloads to remain viable and vice-versa. These technologies can co-exist and service different niches.

Agreed. I still hate how all download services pack in DRM, meaning that I am delegated to only using certain devices, etc. Some don't even have realistic solutions for backup and archiving. Ugh! Then there are services like Hulu where shows are yanked. I have to jump between apps when wanting to watch television programs. Still, my trepidation of Blu-Ray being eclipsed by download services as video codecs, broadband penetration and broadband speed improve is making this consumer sit on the sidelines a few more years until a clear winner is declared.

 

[JAT]

No worries, and thanks for the information and recommendation for thedigitalbits.com. I'll have to check it out.

I wouldn't. Bill's a joke, and has been since day one. Talk about fanboys, he thinks marketing copy for unreleased products (from Sony) is the same thing as unbiased testing.

janstett,
Sounds like a nice setup. But how many hard drives do you expect to use for that dream scenario you concocted? You'll spend half your time just getting data onto them, backed up, and replacing failures. They'll take more space than a few HT items, so the lure of "1" HTPC source is not exactly functional. I spent many days over a few months getting my <1000 CDs ripped, I could only imagine the effort if I had an extensive collection. While I have done and do plan to do some more video ripping, the time involved would be ridiculous to get everything. Maybe I could hire someone.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Here's the rub. 2/3 of the Blu-rays I've bough in the past year have come with a DVD copy, these do count toward DVD sales. This number is up from the previous year where it was less than half and the year before that when less than 25% did.

The so-called "convenience" copy is giving the impression that the ratio isn't coming much closer together.

Apparently, the CEA contracted with "Swicker & Associates" to get those numbers. I cannot find any trace of the organization to see if their paper specifies if the convenience copy was included in that value. I'd be shocked if it did. That, combined with the digital convenience copy included with some Blu-Rays would skew almost any attempt to try to gauge the current landscape for media consumption.

 

[MacNewsFix]

I wouldn't. Bill's a joke, and has been since day one. Talk about fanboys, he thinks marketing copy for unreleased products (from Sony) is the same thing as unbiased testing.

janstett,
Sounds like a nice setup. But how many hard drives do you expect to use for that dream scenario you concocted? You'll spend half your time just getting data onto them, backed up, and replacing failures. They'll take more space than a few HT items, so the lure of "1" HTPC source is not exactly functional. I spent many days over a few months getting my <1000 CDs ripped, I could only imagine the effort if I had an extensive collection. While I have done and do plan to do some more video ripping, the time involved would be ridiculous to get everything. Maybe I could hire someone.

Thanks for the assessment of the news source. I'll make sure to take it with a grain of salt.

Believe it or not, I think there actually is a cottage industry for transferring your disk collection to a NAS. It has to be $$$. I feel you pain as I did the same thing with my collection. I have mixed emotions at the thought that one day all of my movies will be on a subscription service like Netflix in as good or better quality than my own.

I'd love a cloud-based, solution but not if it includes a digital key unless it is rock solid. I don't want to try to watch a movie and find out I cannot because the server is down and cannot authenticate.

 

[LethalWolfe]

As for CDs....
http://music.einnews.com/article.php?oid=NR8IR1GS95qAO8E

Which goes to my point. 10-11yrs ago I was hearing how internet distribution was going kill the CD and the major labels. A decade later legal downloads can't even outsell CDs which have been in a sales free fall for years. And, to top it off, digital download growth is leveling off.

Still, my trepidation of Blu-Ray being eclipsed by download services as video codecs, broadband penetration and broadband speed improve is making this consumer sit on the sidelines a few more years until a clear winner is declared.

The trepidation is what I don't understand. If you want to watch movie on Blu-ray watch it on Blu-ray. If you want to stream it stream it. Picking one delivery format doesn't lock you into it forever. I don't understand the desire to wait for a 'winner' to emerge when this isn't like the old physical format wars we've had in the past. This isn't VHS vs BetaMax or even Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD. These are both competing and complimentary delivery formats. Both Blu-ray and downloads/streams can coexist because even though they overlap they also serve different niches.


Lethal

 

[johnnyturbouk]

Which goes to my point. 10-11yrs ago I was hearing how internet distribution was going kill the CD and the major labels. A decade later legal downloads can't even outsell CDs which have been in a sales free fall for years. And, to top it off, digital download growth is leveling off.

i agree, digital sales have levelled off and cd sales still dominate, worldwide!
This will apply more so for movies, as many people prefer to own a physical copy of there media.

I think optical media on a MBP for e.g is not required, i have done the optibay mod and rarely take out my usb superdrive. However it would be nice if bluray is supported in osx so i can have the option to play a bluray or rip a bluray without having to boot into windows.

I have a samsung 9000 series 55" and oh yeah you can tell the difference between the clarity of a 1080p bluray played from my ps3, compared to the same film being streamed 720p from my mac (transformers 2)

 

[janstett]

The graph clearly shows that, even though 1080p may overtake 720p sets in one quarter, it does not mean 100% that 1080p will continue to dominate, as there has been some back and forth. My point in sharing it with the other poster is in response to some that claim HD TV sales are greatly tied to growth in popularity of Blu-Ray 1080p picture. Again, a lot of sources of 720p content, not to mention a lot of people watching SD content on HD TVs thinking they are watching HD.

I think there are two measures that will tell the story more clearly.

(1) What's the breakdown of "large" sets (i.e. 40" and over) that are 720p? Having shopped for a big screen 6 months ago, it's pretty clear that 720p large sets are all but extinct. They are very rare. I think I actually did come across one or two in my shopping, and IIRC they were all plasmas. Back when I bought my 61" DLP set a few years ago, 720 was probably 60% of the large set market.

(2) What's the breakdown of 1080p among small televisions (30" and smaller)? 2 or 3 years ago I was searching for a 20-something 1080p set for my desk and it was very very difficult to find one, and much easier to find them today.

720p is clearly on wobbly knees; really all it has in its corner are (a) very cheap small sets, (2) Apple's so called HD on iTunes, and (3) a very few networks that choose to broadcast in 720p (Fox, ABC). I would not be surprised to see the networks that chose 720 switch to 1080.

 

[LethalWolfe]

720p is clearly on wobbly knees; really all it has in its corner are (a) very cheap small sets, (2) Apple's so called HD on iTunes, and (3) a very few networks that choose to broadcast in 720p (Fox, ABC). I would not be surprised to see the networks that chose 720 switch to 1080.

Unless someone pulls a magic rabbit out of their hat and the ATSC and broadcasters are able to make 1080p60 a standard I'd rather everyone use 720p60 instead of 1080i60 personally. 720p60 doesn't have the inherent problems you get with interlacing and it cross-converts nicely to 1080p or 1080i. I've done comparisons using XDCAM EX, ProRes 422 and ProRes HQ source footage and while if you stop playback and toggle between 1080i60 and 720p60 you can see a difference in quality (the 1080i60 footage shows more detail) during playback you cannot. I showed a split-screen playback to other editors, producers and tech guys at work and the only time you could tell the difference is when a graphic element showed up, like a lower third, and the 720p60-sourced footage always had cleaner looking gfx. Even layed off to HDCAM tape at 1080i60 the 720p60 sourced footage looked as good or better than the native 1080i60 footage during playback.

Not to mention that manipulating progressive footage (slow motion, speed ramps, scaling, compression, etc.,) gives you cleaner results than manipulating interlaced footage (at least in my experience).


Lethal

 

[nec207]

I've never bought a Blu-ray disc I couldn't fast forward through the previews. And the piracy messages are short; I study them because I actually copied the red, yellow, and blue one to put on my Blu-ray discs.

Some people I know actually like previews. It makes it more like a theater experience, and they go make the popcorn and pour the drinks while they run.



Eight years behind the curve is absolutely unacceptable; sorry.



Ten years ahead of the curve is even MORE unacceptable.

Far more likely given Jobs' and Apple's new roles as low quality content peddlers for blind deaf idiots.

Call Sony ask them to lower the licence fee!! Than Mac computers and PC's will start to get blu ray like candy.

Read up on hollywood that killed VHS !! And you see why they switch from VHS to DVD in 5 years.

Than you will know why blu ray will take longer than 15 years.

 

[xIGmanIx]

Windows boxes have had bluray on them for years, so what are you talking about?

Call Sony ask them to lower the licence fee!! Than Mac computers and PC's will start to get blu ray like candy.

Read up on hollywood that killed VHS !! And you see why they switch from VHS to DVD in 5 years.

Than you will know why blu ray will take longer than 15 years.

 

[nec207]

Windows boxes have had bluray on them for years, so what are you talking about?

They did when Sony was pushing blu ray 2 or 3 years ago there was deal with Sony and the PC makers but the licence fee is too high now .So do not expect PC with blu ray unless it is multimedia brand PC ready and going spend alot of money on PC .

And apple would go broke trying to implement blu ray.