Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[samcraig]

What some people have seemed to miss in this discussion is that many people who want blu-ray playback are perfectly fine with Macs not having blu-ray players. Many are perfectly fine with having to buy an external player.

The, dare I say, bigger issue is that Mac's don't support the format regardless.

Jobs and Apple can kill off their optical drives all they want. That doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't at least provide playback capabilities for those that choose to want a blu-ray player. It makes little sense EXCEPT that they want the user to exclusively use iTunes and their stores.

Apple supports thousands of printers and other devices connected via USB, etc. That's because their's seemingly no "conflict of interest"

I would bet that if Apple bought all the Kinkos of the world - they'd start phasing out printer support. And the sound bites would be similar to "Print is dead - no one needs hard copies these days. But if you DO need to have a hard copy - Apple can do that for you. Just send the file to one of our iCopy stores and you can pick up your hard copies 24/7..."

 

[davedude]

It would be cool if Apple provided an equivalent solution to 1080P movies that blu-ray offers right now.

If Apple truly thinks that streaming is the future (I agree, but OPTICALS ARE NOW... as in, I live in TODAY, I'm not in 2015 yet, and Blu-Rays are outselling DVD's...), Apple should take responsibility of working with ISP's to have iTunes content be discounted from subscribers monthly data cap.

 

[Atlantico]

What some people have seemed to miss in this discussion is that many people who want blu-ray playback are perfectly fine with Macs not having blu-ray players. Many are perfectly fine with having to buy an external player.

The, dare I say, bigger issue is that Mac's don't support the format regardless.

Jobs and Apple can kill off their optical drives all they want. That doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't at least provide playback capabilities for those that choose to want a blu-ray player. It makes little sense EXCEPT that they want the user to exclusively use iTunes and their stores.

Apple supports thousands of printers and other devices connected via USB, etc. That's because their's seemingly no "conflict of interest"

I would bet that if Apple bought all the Kinkos of the world - they'd start phasing out printer support. And the sound bites would be similar to "Print is dead - no one needs hard copies these days. But if you DO need to have a hard copy - Apple can do that for you. Just send the file to one of our iCopy stores and you can pick up your hard copies 24/7..."

Very much agreed, you hit the nail squarely on the head here.

 

[VitaminD]

- BD did not exist
- I didn't want x86 garbage
- I wanted Unix
- Apple was not behaving in this way
- Microsoft is off-limits

So you're using a old Power PC Mac then? (Since you said you didn't want x86 garbage which is what Intel chips are all about.)

In any event, I still don't understand the nature of your complaints other than that they seem ideological rather than pragmatic or realistic given your reasons above.

For those of us who wanted or needed to play Blu-ray on a Mac, we found the solutions and they work just fine. Some with compromise, others without. That you irrationally reject the viable and working solutions as being non-solutions, leads one to believe that your rejection is based purely on ideological grounds.

And you are wholly entitled to maintaining that ideology.

 

[wovel]

I tried to watch a Netflix "good" quality stream last night.

It seemed that "good quality" meant "something less than you'd expect from a VHS EP tape". (52 inch XBR)

That is, when it did play instead of pausing to buffer....

If it was pausing at all, then you were not watching a good quality stream. Netflix downgrades quality long before it starts pausing. I would suggest looking into your ISP and your connection, but that would be pointless. HD streams from Netflix on stable internet connections are very close to HD networks on DirecTV and UVerse. (I have both, but no cable, so I will not comment on that).

I watch 1-2 hours of Netflix most evenings. I maybe have 1 or 2 incidents a month where something has paused. The system is not perfect, but it is getting better all the time. Is Netflix or iTunes streaming as good as 1080p blue-ray. Not today. Is it more convent and a better value for many people? Absolutely. Streaming quality will improve, Blue-Ray will never become more convenient.

 

[Porco]

BD is struggling. Hell, the entire movie-on-disc industry is struggling with DVD's AND Blu-Ray.

Conflation.

BD isn't struggling. BD is doing fine and is still on an upward trend. DVD sales are tanking. Don't confuse the two.

 

[linux2mac]

The system is not perfect, but it is getting better all the time. Is Netflix or iTunes streaming as good as 1080p blue-ray. Not today. Is it more convent and a better value for many people? Absolutely. Streaming quality will improve, Blue-Ray will never become more convenient.

Agreed. I still have two BD's from Netflix that I haven't opened for over a month now. I just haven't had the time to watch them yet.

 

[GregAndonian]

Agreed. I still have two BD's from Netflix that I haven't opened for over a month now. I just haven't had the time to watch them yet.

Sorry, but this is a rediculous argument. If you don't have time to watch a Blu-ray, you don't have time to stream something either. (I know the load times have increased, but come on...)

 

[linux2mac]

Sorry, but this is a rediculous argument. If you don't have time to watch a Blu-ray, you don't have time to stream something either. (I know the load times have increased, but come on...)

Actually I do. Both BD movies are about 2 hours long. When winding down I'll watch a TV episode which is usually about 43 min versus a 2 - 3 hour BD movie. Its nice having titles to choose from in the cloud versus a wall of discs.

 

[AidenShaw]

If it was pausing at all, then you were not watching a good quality stream.

Absolutely, since I didn't shut down my entire network except for the TiVo so that the full 1.7 Mbps would be available for downloading what started as a crappy stream. If one service on one system wakes up to check for or download updates, it's pause city.

As I've said before, I'm one of the people who has to live in the optical present, not the download future, due to mediocre bandwidth, bandwidth caps, and/or expensive service. But I do love those BD discs that come in the mail!

A friend whose company pays his $190/month bill for Comcast 50 Mbps service doesn't have any problems stealing BD rips and the like from torrents, or streaming at almost as good as DVD quality.

 

[samcraig]

Actually I do. Both BD movies are about 2 hours long. When winding down I'll watch a TV episode which is usually about 43 min versus a 2 - 3 hour BD movie. Its nice having titles to choose from in the cloud versus a wall of discs.

That has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with your own time management.

 

[janstett]

Streaming movies will continue to grow, pretty clear now that Bluray is in the past and Apple only looks towards the future.

Streaming movies (legally) right now accounts for less than 4% of the home video market. Far less than cable's Video On Demand and far, far less than physical formats.

So they will continue to grow -- from 4% to what, 10%, 20%? How long do we have to wait? Steve Jobs is skating to where the puck will be, but he's doing it while they're still playing basketball. Blu-Ray right now is the best quality video you can get, and it's growing faster than DVD at the same point in its life. As has been pointed out, with Star Wars coming next month it will explode. There's no doubt it is mainstream and Apple is missing out by getting skate marks on the hardwood.

And then there's the looming issue of 4K video -- higher than HD. Even Apple is preparing for this with retina cinema displays. Yet it still can't support today's mainstream HD video.

I am looking forward to my Stars Wars BD set pre-order to arrive from Amazon. Will be watching them via one of my dedicated BD players.

And I will be making legal ISO images, storing them on my home theater PC's massive drive array, and enjoying them in their best possible format -- on a machine powered by Windows 7 outputting HD audio and 1080-24 on my 65" THX Plasma, which Macs are not capable of.

No hd audio (pass through of ripped bluray hd audio via toslink seems to work on apple tv, btw).

You are not getting HD audio -- when output over SPDIF you are getting the core lossy track (DD or DTS) same as you got with DVD. SPDIF is not capable of HD output beyond 96/24 stereo.

Count me in on that too. I love Blu Rays but don't need to watch them on my computer--that's what my blu ray player is for.

Quick, remove all music from your Mac because listening to music is what iPods and your home stereo are for. Delete any and all videos because that's what your TV is for. Delete the DVD Player app because that's what your blu-ray player is for.

And please, for God's sake, don't dream of connecting your Mac to your TV.

Nah, Mr Jobs isn't known for his acts of capitulation to consumer demands. He's more on about shaping consumer demand.

Besides, if anything, it's something that should have been done at or very near the outset of BD's official adoption. Otherwise it looks like a Johnny-come-lately implementation. Especially from a forward looking, trendsetting company like Apple.

They were very forward looking in March 2005 when they joined the Blu-Ray Disc Association's board of directors. Then all went silent, strangely enough, within a few months before the iTunes Movie Store launched. Strange, isn't it?

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/200...Welcomes-Apple-to-Its-Board-of-Directors.html

Sometimes Apple just needs to admit it was wrong. Those instances are few and far between, but they do happen, and this is one of them.

Reading through the responses here from people pointing out how much better BD is to streaming and other methods makes a lot of sense. Only, the reality is not working out that way.

BD is struggling. Hell, the entire movie-on-disc industry is struggling with DVD's AND Blu-Ray. The rentals chains are a thing of the past. I mean, it's so scary how many big chains...Blockbuster, Hollywood Video etc etc are closing up shop. Can this all be due to Netflix and Redbox?

We hear stories of how Netflix takes up so much bandwidth now, but that can't be the entire picture can it? I mean, does anyone even remember Blockbusters? They were all over the place...with tons of people crawling over the new releases on a weekend like ants. There were lines at the cash registers to check out videos. Where did all these thousands and thousands...hell...millions of people go? They're all watching Netflix Streaming and getting little DVD's in the mail?

Actually, the facts are that Blu-Ray is growing, not struggling. In fact, it is growing faster than DVD did, and DVD was the record setter for home format adoption rates.

Additionally, if you think physical discs are going away within the next few years, think again.

- Netflix recommitted itself to DVDs after backing off for online streaming. It may be the future but what about today and tomorrow?
- The meteoric success of RedBox is hard to explain if discs are dying so quickly.
- For quite some time now, buying movies has gotten so cheap that it replaces rental. I know I am guilty of that myself, and others on this thread like linux2mac have admitted as much for themselves. In the heydey of movie rental chains you couldn't buy copies on the market through Amazon or Best Buy. Titled would go for upwards of $100 on VHS.
- Piracy, DVD/Blu-Ray rips and cable rips have become so easy and so proliferate with high speed internet access. The lazy, cheap, and unscrupulous have an easy and, to them, free highway at their disposal.

To say nothing of all the new choices that have entered the fray. The market today is much more diffuse than it was in the heydey of blockbuster.

Blockbuster's big problems were the draconian late fee policies and the high overhead for real estate and square footage. Netflix's genius was in bypassing that and mailing discs.

 

[linux2mac]

That has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with your own time management.

I will have to disagree. Streaming is very convenient for my schedule. Choosing titles in the cloud is preferred over running to the nearest Red Box.

 

[samcraig]

I will have to disagree. Streaming is very convenient for my schedule. Choosing titles in the cloud is preferred over running to the nearest Red Box.

Backpeddle all you want.

You said you have netflix. You said you had discs AT HOME already. But clearly they are movies - so you don't have time to watch - or are too lazy to pop them into the machine.

Either way - it's not a technology issue. It's your time and/or lazy issue.

Nice try though.

 

[AidenShaw]

nomination

Steve Jobs is skating to where the puck will be, but he's doing it while they're still playing basketball.

I nominate this for the best post of the thread.

In fact, if you want to express this whole thread in 20 words or less - this is spot on.

 

[linux2mac]

My Nomination

Apple is done with the disc format. Come to terms with that or buy a windows laptop.

Here is my nomination for best post of this thread under 20 words.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Apple is done with the disc format. Come to terms with that or buy a windows laptop.

Agreed, especially if the rumored MacBook Air Pros turn out to be true. Of course, maybe Apple is just patiently waiting for Blu-Ray development to end.

Blu-ray Proposes Incompatible BD-XL, IH-BD Formats

Of course, some already feel Blu-Ray is not worth the investment.

​

Will Blu-ray keep disc-based entertainment alive for just a little bit longer? The signs don’t look good. The NPD Group released a report on the market Jun. 8 and found disc-based movie sales had decreased more than 9% between March 2010 and March 2011. Although Blu-ray disc sales totaled 15% of total disc sales, an increase from 9% in 2009, just 15% of consumers use a Blu-ray player at all. Unless there is a monumental drop in price for the retail product, unlimited access to digital versions simply won’t be enough to entice consumers to buy Blu-rays.

 

[VitaminD]

​

Will Blu-ray keep disc-based entertainment alive for just a little bit longer? The signs don’t look good. The NPD Group released a report on the market Jun. 8 and found disc-based movie sales had decreased more than 9% between March 2010 and March 2011. Although Blu-ray disc sales totaled 15% of total disc sales, an increase from 9% in 2009, just 15% of consumers use a Blu-ray player at all. Unless there is a monumental drop in price for the retail product, unlimited access to digital versions simply won’t be enough to entice consumers to buy Blu-rays.

Indeed. All the more reason why if one wants or needs to play/record Blu-ray on a Mac that they should embrace the viable solutions that exist to do so.

But I must say, "wow" to how low Blu-Ray disc sales are and how relatively few Blu-ray players are in deployment. I hadn't bothered to look it up and just used anecdotal evidence to estimate that perhaps the figures would be a little more than double that. Say, around 33%.

 

[samcraig]

What some people have seemed to miss in this discussion is that many people who want blu-ray playback are perfectly fine with Macs not having blu-ray players. Many are perfectly fine with having to buy an external player.

The, dare I say, bigger issue is that Mac's don't support the format regardless.

Jobs and Apple can kill off their optical drives all they want. That doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't at least provide playback capabilities for those that choose to want a blu-ray player. It makes little sense EXCEPT that they want the user to exclusively use iTunes and their stores.

Apple supports thousands of printers and other devices connected via USB, etc. That's because their's seemingly no "conflict of interest"

I would bet that if Apple bought all the Kinkos of the world - they'd start phasing out printer support. And the sound bites would be similar to "Print is dead - no one needs hard copies these days. But if you DO need to have a hard copy - Apple can do that for you. Just send the file to one of our iCopy stores and you can pick up your hard copies 24/7..."

My favorite post which sums up the entire thread in over 100 words and illustrates how some people STILL fail to understand the real issue.

 

[mikelegacy]

Streaming movies (legally) right now accounts for less than 4% of the home video market. Far less than cable's Video On Demand and far, far less than physical formats.

So they will continue to grow -- from 4% to what, 10%, 20%? How long do we have to wait? Steve Jobs is skating to where the puck will be, but he's doing it while they're still playing basketball. Blu-Ray right now is the best quality video you can get, and it's growing faster than DVD at the same point in its life. As has been pointed out, with Star Wars coming next month it will explode. There's no doubt it is mainstream and Apple is missing out by getting skate marks on the hardwood.

Additionally, if you think physical discs are going away within the next few years, think again.

- Netflix recommitted itself to DVDs after backing off for online streaming. It may be the future but what about today and tomorrow?
- The meteoric success of RedBox is hard to explain if discs are dying so quickly.
- For quite some time now, buying movies has gotten so cheap that it replaces rental. I know I am guilty of that myself, and others on this thread like linux2mac have admitted as much for themselves. In the heydey of movie rental chains you couldn't buy copies on the market through Amazon or Best Buy. Titled would go for upwards of $100 on VHS.
- Piracy, DVD/Blu-Ray rips and cable rips have become so easy and so proliferate with high speed internet access. The lazy, cheap, and unscrupulous have an easy and, to them, free highway at their disposal.

To say nothing of all the new choices that have entered the fray. The market today is much more diffuse than it was in the heydey of blockbuster.

Blockbuster's big problems were the draconian late fee policies and the high overhead for real estate and square footage. Netflix's genius was in bypassing that and mailing discs.

Honestly, almost every person I know has Netflix solely for the streaming. A I think a subscription-based streaming service is the future. No one wants to wait for a DVD or BD to come in the mail and for less than the price of a DVD you can get thousands of movies streaming for "free".

That should be the future. Paying individually for content is going away. Look at the music industry, streaming services are popping up everywhere. The movie industry will follow. It's the only way to compete.

Studios can't complain about profit either, because all movies are essentially financed through product placement now a days.

I think it's stupid that BD isn't an option on Mac, but as has been said before, you shouldn't be watching BD on your computer anyways. What's the point? You're preaching about sound quality and all this, but unless you have a QUALITY sound system on your comp, which is a total waste of money, why not watch it on on your tv which is likely less than 50 feet away.

You keep saying why can't Apple admit they were wrong, well they might ask you why you need BD on your computer? Most people don't watch movies on their computer unless streaming from Netflix, so it's not cost effective for them.

In my opinion, apple is right about flash and they are right about BD. BD just doesn't have a large enough market on a PC. It's more of a set top box indsustry.

 

[TwinCities Dan]

I nominate this for the best post of the thread.

In fact, if you want to express this whole thread in 20 words or less - this is spot on.

I agree completely! But I'm sure there will still be another 6,000 posts to follow.

 

[linux2mac]

apple is right about flash and they are right about BD.

Bingo!

 

[MacNewsFix]

Indeed. All the more reason why if one wants or needs to play/record Blu-ray on a Mac that they should embrace the viable solutions that exist to do so.

But I must say, "wow" to how low Blu-Ray disc sales are and how relatively few Blu-ray players are in deployment. I hadn't bothered to look it up and just used anecdotal evidence to estimate that perhaps the figures would be a little more than double that. Say, around 33%.

Coincidently, if you take the most recently reported top 20 movies being sold, and you ignore the two not available on Blu-Ray, ignore the one reporting only 0.2% sold as Blu-Ray as an anomaly, and divide only by 17 instead of 20, you get just shy of your surmised 33%.

 

[VitaminD]

....You keep saying why can't Apple admit they were wrong, well they might ask you why you need BD on your computer? Most people don't watch movies on their computer unless streaming from Netflix, so it's not cost effective for them.

In my opinion, apple is right about flash and they are right about BD. BD just doesn't have a large enough market on a PC. It's more of a set top box indsustry.

You make good points, for sure. Though, at least on the Mac pro it should be an option for the sake of authoring and editing. Not a real issue though since you can get a BD drive kit from OWC.

I use the external BD drive connected to my iMac to rip to MP4 format to be able to play them on my iPod and later my as of yet not purchased iPad. Plus I author Blu-rays of family and friend videos. But when it comes to watching blu-rays, I use a stand alone player connected to a entertainment system with a 46" Sony XBR8 TV.

----------

Coincidently, if you take the most recently reported top 20 movies being sold, and you ignore the two not available on Blu-Ray, ignore the one reporting only 0.2% sold as Blu-Ray as an anomaly, and divide only by 17 instead of 20, you get just shy of your surmised 33%.

LOL. Bravo on your use of mathemagic.

Kudos.

 

[cmaier]

What some people have seemed to miss in this discussion is that many people who want blu-ray playback are perfectly fine with Macs not having blu-ray players. Many are perfectly fine with having to buy an external player.

The, dare I say, bigger issue is that Mac's don't support the format regardless.

Weird. I'm watching a bluray of Monsters, Inc. on my MBP with external bus-powered USB BD drive, running Lion, right now. I hope no one tells my computer that it doesn't support the format.