Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[matticus008]

Why should I have to buy another copy of a movie I already own?!

Who's saying you have to? You bought a Blu-ray film knowing it could only be used in a compatible player. Like any other DVD-based device you may own, that means BD films are a no-go.

Please tell; me you are not dusting off that tired, long ago discredited DRM argument.

Discredited by whom?

Really, the DRM included for the iTunes movies and rentals is worse than anything related to playing a Blu-ray disk.

That's absolutely false. Any download store, be it Amazon, iTunes, or Netflix, uses a comparatively simple decoding system at the application level to authorize playback.

Blu-ray, on the other hand, requires an encrypted path at the OS level, from the drive firmware all the way to the display. It's not just requiring an HDCP output link--Blu-ray has to be built into the OS itself and certified for it to work. AACS's strict requirements and certification auditing are onerous. Linux will never be able to comply, and Apple has chosen not to cave to them.

Microsoft did it in part, but even they weren't willing to do it completely, requiring third party software to finish the links. Even still, Microsoft has seen no tangible benefit from doing so.

I understand what the naysayers are trying to posit

That doesn't seem so.

but there is absolutely no reasonable explanation for Apple not offering a Blu-ray option; at least no explanation that anyone who has invested in Blu-ray technology will EVER accept.

Of course it's reasonable; it's laid out right in front of you. Not personally liking it does not make it unreasonable. I have invested a great deal in Blu-ray technology in my home. I accept the limitations for the closed home theater appliances; I do not believe that that level of invasion and control should be permitted on a computer, and if that means that like everything that is not a Blu-ray player, I have to find something else to watch, BFD.

Having Blu-ray on a Mac also doesn't do anything to facilitate playback on portable and mobile devices, whereas a suitable digital copy can be used on computers and those devices (and even on modern HDTVs).

Remember, we who desire the option would be paying for it.

But you're not. Windows PCs with the hardware are still in low single digit market share. You act like there's tremendous demand. There isn't. There is a tiny and outspoken minority acting like there is something they see that, at last report, 96.5% of computer customers and 67% of US households do not.

The fringe benefit of popping a Blu-ray film in a Mac is hardly outweighed by the minor inconvenience of not being able to play it in OS X by any objective measure.

If you really want a Blu-ray capable machine to travel with, there are several options not terribly more expensive than the $300 or so Apple would charge to upgrade a Mac to Blu-ray anyway. Or you could buy a suitable drive and a cheap copy of Vista or Windows 7 and use it with your Mac. Personally, I think selecting from your DVD collection, renting on the road, using a digital copy/service, taking advantage of the hotel's entertainment options, using the hotel room's Blu-ray player, or going to an actual movie theater provide no lack of options. Not being able to watch from Linux and Mac OS X doesn't really seem a major complaint to me. It's like not being able to take your book library on the road and having to buy some eBooks or finding something else to read.

 

[cube]

Optical is no floppy. It's by no means obsolete.

Removing the optical drives would be completely arrogant.

 

[jjahshik32]

That is what separates people like you from normal customers. Most customers are concerned with what a company and product can do for them, and take their business elsewhere if those needs are not met.

People like you, on the other hand, are more concerned with the well-being and financial stability of a corporate entity and remaining loyal to a symbol, than they are with their own needs being met.

That's goddamn wacky.

Well people like you dont look at the big picture and are not realistic. I'm a realist and look at all the angles of what a company does to improve overall. If they are having great revenues, I know that in the big picture that it will give them bigger room to continue to innovate. And instead people like you are always I want, I want, I want just because Steve is stubborn. Oh yea right like Steve would jeopardize a company's revenue soley based on his own stubborness like he's Apple and its shareholders daddy.

I can tell not once have you thought about what Apple's situation is on introducing bluray as an option. I'm sure Steve knows a whole lot more with many experts with figures on his side on what to do and what not to do. I dont question his motives as of now because he's the guy who dug Apple out from almost going out of business to what it is today.

I noticed that whatever decisions anyone makes from any company, there will always be a section of people complaining.

 

[Carniphage]

That is what separates people like you from normal customers. Most customers are concerned with what a company and product can do for them, and take their business elsewhere if those needs are not met.

People like you, on the other hand, are more concerned with the well-being and financial stability of a corporate entity and remaining loyal to a symbol, than they are with their own needs being met.

That's goddamn wacky.

Just out of interest. Which large corporate entity behaves in a way that fits this grand utopian ideal?

C.

 

[panzer06]

Well people like you dont look at the big picture and are not realistic. I'm a realist and look at all the angles of what a company does to improve overall. If they are having great revenues, I know that in the big picture that it will give them bigger room to continue to innovate. And instead people like you are always I want, I want, I want just because Steve is stubborn.

I can tell not once have you thought about what Apple's situation is on introducing bluray as an option. I'm sure Steve knows a whole lot more with many experts with figures on his side on what to do and what not to do. I dont question his motives as of now because he's the guy who dug Apple out from almost going out of business to what it is today.

Blind faith in any single individual with no reason other than "I'm sure he/she knows what's right" is more dangerous (than wacky - as suggested above). Stubbornness and arrogance have brought down many an empire (or company). Such traits breed complacency and eventually stifle the very creativity they espouse.

Cheers,

 

[waywardsage]

I'm not sold on blu-ray for the same reason that my Boss isn't. This guy has a hugh mansion and his house looks like something off of Cribs with all of the Plasmas TV's he has and he still uses DVD players.

Because alot of his favorite movies are not released on Blu-ray and a biggie for him is Star Wars. How successful is a format when one of the most successful movies in history was never released on it? I'm sure it will eventually but if george lucas doesn't trust the format enough to release his masterpiece on it then what does that say about it?

And it seems like most new releases on Blu-Ray are still more expensive than their DVD counterparts. I get they come with extras but still in other to have full penetration the prices need to come down.

This thread is filled with a niche audience. Apple can't just sell for only the niche and i think people forget that mac rumors doesn't mirror the whole user base of apple products.

Apple doesn't serve a niche audience huh? What's Final Cut Pro? Logic? How about the Apple TV?

 

[jjahshik32]

Just out of interest. Which large corporate entity behaves in a way that fits this grand utopian ideal?

C.

Maybe he's thinking of Dell?

Either way, I think this is more goddman wacky.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8619/2204355.swf

 

[CFreymarc]

I understand what the naysayers are trying to posit, I really do, but there is absolutely no reasonable explanation for Apple not offering a Blu-ray option; at least no explanation that anyone who has invested in Blu-ray technology will EVER accept.

Remember, we who desire the option would be paying for it.

Cheers,

You assume Apple is a reasonable company. The most successful in this business are never reasonable and don't blindly listen to customer requests. Apple went on a war path to trash Adobe's Flash and are doing well showing the Emperor is wearing no clothes.

BluRay originated at Sony, Apple considers Sony a competitor after moving into consumer electronics. The amount of WalkMan's dropped for iPods is staggering and both executive crews in Cupertino and Tokyo know this.

I would not be surprised if there is some super-secret project at Apple to go after BluRay and the DVD format in general to replace it with something better. That is being unreasonable and successful!

 

[jjahshik32]

Blind faith in any single individual with no reason other than "I'm sure he/she knows what's right" is more dangerous (than wacky - as suggested above). Stubbornness and arrogance have brought down many an empire (or company). Such traits breed complacency and eventually stifle the very creativity they espouse.

Cheers,

Well look at Apple's situation, its fact that they are doing very well as a company. Nothing to really question at the moment of Steve's motives. I would think many others agree with me when I say Apple's on the right path.

Also, by not adding bluray as an option wont bring Apple down or its so called empire. Thats a whole different discussion and cannot be easily summed up to Steve being stubborn or pouting or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Fender]

Optical is no floppy. It's by no means obsolete.

Removing the optical drives would be completely arrogant.

Similar things were said when they did remove the floppy.

Although it would be premature to think of optical drives as obsolete at this point in time, I do agree with Jobs that digital distribution is a good horse to bet on.

 

[waywardsage]

Who's saying you have to? You bought a Blu-ray film knowing it could only be used in a compatible player. Like any other DVD-based device you may own, that means BD films are a no-go.


Discredited by whom?

That's absolutely false. Any download store, be it Amazon, iTunes, or Netflix, uses a comparatively simple decoding system at the application level to authorize playback.

Blu-ray, on the other hand, requires an encrypted path at the OS level, from the drive firmware all the way to the display. It's not just requiring an HDCP output link--Blu-ray has to be built into the OS itself and certified for it to work. AACS's strict requirements and certification auditing are onerous. Linux will never be able to comply, and Apple has chosen not to cave to them.

Microsoft did it in part, but even they weren't willing to do it completely, requiring third party software to finish the links. Even still, Microsoft has seen no tangible benefit from doing so.

That doesn't seem so.

Of course it's reasonable; it's laid out right in front of you. Not personally liking it does not make it unreasonable. I have invested a great deal in Blu-ray technology in my home. I accept the limitations for the closed home theater appliances; I do not believe that that level of invasion and control should be permitted on a computer, and if that means that like everything that is not a Blu-ray player, I have to find something else to watch, BFD.

Having Blu-ray on a Mac also doesn't do anything to facilitate playback on portable and mobile devices, whereas a suitable digital copy can be used on computers and those devices (and even on modern HDTVs).

But you're not. Windows PCs with the hardware are still in low single digit market share. You act like there's tremendous demand. There isn't. There is a tiny and outspoken minority acting like there is something they see that, at last report, 96.5% of computer customers and 67% of US households do not.

The fringe benefit of popping a Blu-ray film in a Mac is hardly outweighed by the minor inconvenience of not being able to play it in OS X by any objective measure.

If you really want a Blu-ray capable machine to travel with, there are several options not terribly more expensive than the $300 or so Apple would charge to upgrade a Mac to Blu-ray anyway. Or you could buy a suitable drive and a cheap copy of Vista or Windows 7 and use it with your Mac. Personally, I think selecting from your DVD collection, renting on the road, using a digital copy/service, taking advantage of the hotel's entertainment options, using the hotel room's Blu-ray player, or going to an actual movie theater provide no lack of options. Not being able to watch from Linux and Mac OS X doesn't really seem a major complaint to me. It's like not being able to take your book library on the road and having to buy some eBooks or finding something else to read.

You do realize that the people who AUTHOR these "downloadable movies" which you champion "will take over someday" are often authored on Mac's right? Why is it so unreasonable for them to ask for a way to at least play back the Blu they authored on their mac that they payed top dollar for?

 

[cube]

Similar things were said when they did remove the floppy.

Although it would be premature to think of optical drives as obsolete at this point in time, I do agree with Jobs that digital distribution is a good horse to bet on.

The floppy had been superseded by optical. Nothing is replacing optical now.

 

[Carniphage]

You do realize that the people who AUTHOR these "downloadable movies" which you champion "will take over someday" are often authored on Mac's right? Why is it so unreasonable for them to ask for a way to at least play back the Blu they authored on their mac that they payed top dollar for?

That's right - it's impossible for a Mac owner to ever watch a BluRay.
Unless of course they go and buy a BluRay player.

As an aside, last year I had to buy a PC - I bought a Sony Vaio which came with the magical BluRay disk drive. A device capable of showing movies in breathtaking life-like quality.

Unfortunately the laptop also came with a screen so incredibly bad, that there was no single position which offered a good view of the screen. Wherever I sat, part of the screen was washed out - or had inverted colors.

I returned mine to the shop.

Can someone explain why anyone would want such a machine?

C.

 

[waywardsage]

Honestly, i'm thinking of taking my signature off of my profile. When i added the "awaiting the iRevolution" i'd just bought my MBP and was really optimistic of Apple future. But now, seeing how closed minded they're becoming is beginning to scare me.

 

[Fender]

The floppy had been superseded by optical. Nothing is replacing optical now.

Digital distribution will eventually supersede physical media. Just not as soon as Jobs/Apple would like it, perhaps.

Personally, I don't know anyone (22 yrs of age+, I'm 29) with Blu Ray discs. Everyone just downloads everything -- albeit illegally at times.

 

[waywardsage]

That's right - it's impossible for a Mac owner to ever watch a BluRay.
Unless of course they go and buy a BluRay player.

As an aside, last year I had to buy a PC - I bought a Sony Vaio which came with the magical BluRay disk drive. A device capable of showing movies in breathtaking life-like quality.

Unfortunately the laptop also came with a screen so incredibly bad, that there was no single position which offered a good view of the screen. Wherever I sat, part of the screen was washed out - or had inverted colors.

I returned mine to the shop.

Can someone explain why anyone would want such a machine?

C.

Thats why i don't want a crappy PC just to watch the BD's I already own! I want a built in drive to watch them on my 17" high rez badass MBP!

 

[waywardsage]

Digital distribution will eventually supersede physical media. Just not as soon as Jobs/Apple would like it, perhaps.

Personally, I don't know anyone (22 yrs of age+, I'm 29) with Blu Ray discs. Everyone just downloads everything -- albeit illegally at times.

Do you EVER go to Best Buy? Every time I go there,(i'm 29) I see tons of people my age shopping for blu rays.

Young people pirate because they're lazy, poor, unethical, etc. That's hardly a defense of downloads. Thats like saying, why should people pay for stuff when they can just steal it?

 

[jjahshik32]

Honestly, i'm thinking of taking my signature off of my profile. When i added the "awaiting the iRevolution" i'd just bought my MBP and was really optimistic of Apple future. But now, seeing how closed minded they're becoming is beginning to scare me.

So you sole idea of iRevolution is bluray?

 

[matticus008]

You do realize that the people who AUTHOR these "downloadable movies" which you champion "will take over someday"

Take over from what? Blu-ray isn't going anywhere.

What people seem not to want to understand, though, is that Blu-ray isn't replacing anything. It's adding a new experience to the home. The existing media is shifting to digital for use on smaller TVs, portable devices, computers, and other casual viewing situations where there's no demand and/or no equipment meriting Blu-ray. The DVD isn't going anywhere, either, for quite a while.

are often authored on Mac's right?

On Mac's what?

Why is it so unreasonable for them to ask for a way to at least play back the Blu they authored on their mac that they payed top dollar for?

What they paid is irrelevant, and whether a given film was produced on a Mac (Blu-rays are not authored on Apple products) has nothing to do with anything either. It's not clear what your argument is except a string of loosely related emotional appeals.

As for whether it's unreasonable for a person to want to play them on a Mac, it isn't. But neither is it unreasonable to choose not to offer that. A reasonable request can be rejected by a reasonable response. There is minimal benefit and minimal demand, and a non-trivial alteration of how the OS operates involving a non-trivial degree of influence by the AACS consortium associated with providing it.

If you are truly bothered by that minor inconvenience, you have plenty of alternatives to choose from.

 

[waywardsage]

Take over from what? Blu-ray isn't going anywhere for a while.

On Mac's what?

What they paid is irrelevant, and whether a given film was produced on a Mac (Blu-rays are not authored on Apple products) has nothing to do with anything either. It's not clear what your argument is except a string of loosely related emotional appeals.

As for whether it's unreasonable for a person to want to play them on a Mac, it isn't. But neither is it unreasonable to choose not to offer that. A reasonable request can be rejected by a reasonable response. There is minimal benefit and minimal demand, and a non-trivial alteration of how the OS operates involving a non-trivial degree of influence by the AACS consortium associated with providing it.

If you are truly bothered by that minor inconvenience, you have plenty of alternatives to choose from.

DVD Studio Pro can encode HD video for blu ray authoring. So, no. Your wrong.

Here's the proof: Under "Whats new with DVD Studio Pro"
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/whats-new.html

 

[cube]

Digital distribution will eventually supersede physical media. Just not as soon as Jobs/Apple would like it, perhaps.

Personally, I don't know anyone (22 yrs of age+, I'm 29) with Blu Ray discs. Everyone just downloads everything -- albeit illegally at times.

People not only still buy a lot of CDs, a fraction are back to vinyl.

I will only buy music downloads when they are equal o superior to SACD and DVD-A (and without DRM), as long as a better physical format does not exist.

When downloads reach the quality of Blu-ray, physical media will already be at the 4K level. When downloads reach 4K, physical media will be already at 8K.

That should keep you waiting for an electronic replacement at least well into the 2020's.

 

[Fender]

Do you EVER go to Best Buy? Every time I go there,(i'm 29) I see tons of people my age shopping for blu rays.

Young people pirate because they're lazy, poor, unethical, etc. That's hardly a defense of downloads. Thats like saying, why should people pay for stuff when they can just steal it?

I'm not saying no one buys them, I see it too. Hell, if that were the case, the movie industry really would be in some trouble. While there are lazy, poor, unethical 20 & 30 somethings, would you not also agree that those people at Best Buy just might not be tech savy enough to find good quality illegal versions online?

All I'm saying is, it is only a matter of time until the use of physical media starts to decline. It's not anytime in the next 5-10 years, but I think Apple wishes it were.

People not only still buy a lot of CDs, a fraction are back to vinyl.

I do love my vinyl, I must admit.

 

[panzer06]

Who's saying you have to? You bought a Blu-ray film knowing it could only be used in a compatible player. Like any other DVD-based device you may own, that means BD films are a no-go.


Discredited by whom?

That's absolutely false. Any download store, be it Amazon, iTunes, or Netflix, uses a comparatively simple decoding system at the application level to authorize playback.

Blu-ray, on the other hand, requires an encrypted path at the OS level, from the drive firmware all the way to the display. It's not just requiring an HDCP output link--Blu-ray has to be built into the OS itself and certified for it to work. AACS's strict requirements and certification auditing are onerous. Linux will never be able to comply, and Apple has chosen not to cave to them.

Microsoft did it in part, but even they weren't willing to do it completely, requiring third party software to finish the links. Even still, Microsoft has seen no tangible benefit from doing so.

That doesn't seem so.

Of course it's reasonable; it's laid out right in front of you. Not personally liking it does not make it unreasonable. I have invested a great deal in Blu-ray technology in my home. I accept the limitations for the closed home theater appliances; I do not believe that that level of invasion and control should be permitted on a computer, and if that means that like everything that is not a Blu-ray player, I have to find something else to watch, BFD.

Having Blu-ray on a Mac also doesn't do anything to facilitate playback on portable and mobile devices, whereas a suitable digital copy can be used on computers and those devices (and even on modern HDTVs).

But you're not. Windows PCs with the hardware are still in low single digit market share. You act like there's tremendous demand. There isn't. There is a tiny and outspoken minority acting like there is something they see that, at last report, 96.5% of computer customers and 67% of US households do not.

The fringe benefit of popping a Blu-ray film in a Mac is hardly outweighed by the minor inconvenience of not being able to play it in OS X by any objective measure.

If you really want a Blu-ray capable machine to travel with, there are several options not terribly more expensive than the $300 or so Apple would charge to upgrade a Mac to Blu-ray anyway. Or you could buy a suitable drive and a cheap copy of Vista or Windows 7 and use it with your Mac. Personally, I think selecting from your DVD collection, renting on the road, using a digital copy/service, taking advantage of the hotel's entertainment options, using the hotel room's Blu-ray player, or going to an actual movie theater provide no lack of options. Not being able to watch from Linux and Mac OS X doesn't really seem a major complaint to me. It's like not being able to take your book library on the road and having to buy some eBooks or finding something else to read.

It's annoying for me to authorize and unauthorize downloaded content. Apple's method is even more flexible than some but nothing approaching just taking the disk with me. I have the same issue with downloaded games. Given a CHOICE I prefer to carry the physical disk and use it.

No consumer cares what programming hoops it might take to get Blu-ray disks to play on a computer. If it works under Windows with 3rd-party help it can work on a Mac. I'm sure somewhere in Cupertino there's an OS X based Mac playing a Blu-ray movie. Apple is more than capable of providing this option.

As to reasonable vs likable. Tis a pointless discussion. Purely subjective and based on the bias of the target constituency. I stand by my now modified statement that no argument, no matter how well constructed or expressed will be acceptable to those of us who desire Blu-ray capability as an option under OS X on a Mac.

As such, I've actually given up on Apple for this purpose (and the option of better GPUs on their laptops and iMacs) long ago and buy only the minimum Mac I need for work and home. I really like OS X and will continue to use a Mac so long as most of my basic business and personal functions are satisfied. However, for Blu-ray and games I've purchased and will continue to buy Windows laptops.

I just think it's sad that so many people continue to defend the short-sighted arrogance of Apple's "spiritual" leader (and for many Apple borders on religion). His comments of late have shown a truly astounding lack of regard for his customers (iphone4 "hold it different" comes to mind).

At some point such single-minded inflexibility will do Apple more harm than good.

Cheers,

 

[waywardsage]

I'm not saying no one buys them, I see it too. Hell, if that were the case, the movie industry really would be in some trouble. While there are lazy, poor, unethical 20 & 30 somethings, would you not also agree that those people at Best Buy just might not be tech savy enough to find good quality illegal versions online?

All I'm saying is, it is only a matter of time until the use of physical media starts to decline. It's not anytime in the next 5-10 years, but I think Apple wishes it were.

The physical media decline may happen. But it is at least 10 years off. But like i said earlier, see Movies on Demand to see where a technology thats been around for 10 years has gotten.

 

[cube]

CD albums are cheaper than downloads, if you know how to buy.