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Well this conversation has gone way overboard. Forget the 9.5mm thin loading slot drives, I agree with everyone who says they should simply do away with optical drives on Mac. HOWEVER, they should offer a USB external drive, like they do for the MBA and Mini Server, and there should be a Blu-ray option there.

Then the drive can be a tray load 12.5mm cheapo drive, no need for a particular form factor.

Personally ? I haven't watched a movie from optical disc on my computer in ages. I quit the practice when I finally ditched my Creative DXR2 kit after purchasing my first stand-alone DVD player. Of course, the Creative kit was hooked up to my TV. This was sometimes in the 90s back when the thing was 250$ and the cheapest DVD player was around 600$.

That's no excuse to not give the option to people who need/want it. I buy a lot of movies in a physical format and will for a long time. The Internet just isn't there yet, and even when it will be, I have a hard time trusting the cloud.

Heck, Music downloads are still a minority of music purchases. Physical CD purchases are still a bigger market than downloads. And those are 5 MB files. Instant gratification ? People would rather own something tangible for their money. That's the biggest hurdle to downloads.

And Lee. Dude. Chill, drop the coffee. And the Steve flavored Kool-aid. Your eyesight might return.

(Kool-aid is not an insult, it represents Blind Loyalty to a cult leader. People blindly repeating what Steve says as gospel. If the guy was right even half the time, we'd have flying cars by now.)

Seriously, knock it off. I am not, nor have I ever been a "Kool aid" drinker (and that is most definitely calling people blind followers, as you have just admitted- therefore, an insult.). More often than not, I have been against what Apple has done in the past, like doing away with matte screens and firewire. It IS an insult, as you try to paint me as some blind follower of Steve Jobs. I can assure you, I am most definitely not. I see the need here for Blu-ray support, you have an argument there, but I see absolutely no need for Apple to include Blu-ray drives in all of their machines.
 
Steve Jobs called 2005 "the year of HD." What a hypocrite!

How is he hypocrite? Everything is in HD these days. Just look at YouTube, Netflix, and even iTunes itself. Just because it isn't Blue-Ray doesn't mean it can't be HD.
 
Just because it isn't Blue-Ray doesn't mean it can't be HD.
Mmm, yes it does. By common practice, anyway. I upscale my 480i DVDs to 720p, but I'm not going to call them HD despite the fact that they look and sound far better than any YouTube or iTunes version of the same movies. So unless you're going to call DVDs HD, you certainly can't call that other stuff HD.
 
How is he hypocrite? Everything is in HD these days. Just look at YouTube, Netflix, and even iTunes itself. Just because it isn't Blue-Ray doesn't mean it can't be HD.

The only true HD is FULL 1080p resolution.

All this other "stuff" sites and pamphlets are pedaling are NOT true HD. They are wannabe HD. Crap marketing to make a fast buck from people that are not aware of what HD really is.

It's like someone giving you an Apple pie. However, that apple pie is only filled with 45% apples. You can and will notice a difference when you sink your teeth into an apple pie that is filled with 100% apples.
 
They should at least offer BD-Rom drives as a BTO option, for archival purposes. Doesn't even need to play movies.

Optical media is still the best format for archiving important data, and DVDs do not cut it anymore.

I know you can get them from a 3d party, but you shouldn't have to.
 
I think Jobs' arrogant attitude is turning off more people than he thinks.

I think you forget that the non nerds have no clue whatsoever about what Jobs says, and most don't know who the hell jobs is.

Just because we live in a bubble here on MR doesn't mean the rest of the world gives a **** what steve jobs has to say about anything.
 
Have a lot of comments to make, but first...

It's obvious what you need to do to get blu-ray on a mac. And if you're looking for an elegant solution (a built in drive) and Apple doesn't provide such a solution... go elsewhere. As long as Apple continues to do gangbusters in the computer selling business, there's little incentive for them to do anything differently than they have to date. I've been eyeing buying a mac for nearly 5 years now and always decided against doing so for various reasons.... for the longest time it was the lack of a DVD burner on the low end macs, forcing a $100-$200 outlay that made buying a mac extremely unattractive. But what I care about didn't seem to matter much to the millions who did, and apple couldn't give a **** that I wanted a DVD burner that I'd end up never using (10 discs in 5 years on my other computers) ... they offered what they offered and did well for themselves.

Blu-ray on a computer today doesn't make much sense... UNLESS you plan on watching movies on that computer, or ripping them for other reasons... and I don't think there's enough people doing either to make it such an important feature.

Physical media isn't dead. CDs aren't dead, and if CDs aren't dead by now, blu-ray or DVD will be around for a long time.
 
I think you forget that the non nerds have no clue whatsoever about what Jobs says, and most don't know who the hell jobs is.

Just because we live in a bubble here on MR doesn't mean the rest of the world gives a **** what steve jobs has to say about anything.

Steve Jobs gets more media attention than most US politicians. He's on the cover of time magazine at least once a year. Hell, even my non-computer using landlord knows who he is.

He is a way, WAY bigger public personality than you think. Perhaps not as recognizable as Bill Gates, but then again, I don't get SPAM bot email about how forwarding this message means Steve Jobs will donate $1000 to a charity. ;)
 
The only true HD is FULL 1080p resolution.
That is inaccurate. 'Full HD' is a marketing buzz word.


Blu-ray on a computer today doesn't make much sense... UNLESS you plan on watching movies on that computer, or ripping them for other reasons... and I don't think there's enough people doing either to make it such an important feature.
I have to disagree. Many people are shooting home videos in HD, edit their movies in iMovie HD but have no simple way to watch those edit HD movies on their HDTVs in HD. There are also many professionals what want and/or need to author Blu-ray content. There is an audience for BR authoring today just like there was an audience for DVD authoring when Apple was a trailblazer for desktop DVD authoring nearly 10yrs ago.


Lethal
 
BluRay originated at Sony, Apple considers Sony a competitor after moving into consumer electronics. The amount of WalkMan's dropped for iPods is staggering and both executive crews in Cupertino and Tokyo know this.

Stop making up excuses. Big consumer electronics companies like Samsung are much bigger competitors to Sony than apple, yet they all make blu-ray players. /facepalm
 
wow. 45 pages of discussion on this? REALLY?

Blu-Ray is DEAD.

It was dead out-of-the gate. Physical media is so quaint. I was lucky to unload my entire DVD collection (hundreds of movies) for $1 a disc, and I feel like I ripped the guy off! Now, the studios are DESPERATE to unload DVDs at WalMart for $3.99 a disc before Ma & Pa Middle America realize that the Cloud is the future. And they know that Blu-Ray will NEVER reach the market penetration that DVD did.

Why in the world would we want physical media when we can store and stream everything digitally? And, of course, I'm talking about going forward. In other words, YES, there may be issues with HD content and bandwidth and niche needs for physical media, but as the tech and the marketplace develop, digital solutions will stay ahead of Blu-Ray and it will die a deserved death.

BLU-RAY IS DEAD.

(P.S. - for the wedding videographer who said customers want Blu-Rays of their weddings - customers of the future will want a digital copy in iPhone/iPad/AppleTV compatible sizes, NOT discs)

People would be surprised at just how many homes DON"T even own a Blu-ray player let alone an HD TV. I'm at about 150 homes a week and I see at least 75% of those with TVs such as Trinitrons and other tube type TVs.

Myself, I still own one of those old Sonys and I'll continue to use it until it breaks which may be another five years or more, it's 12 years old now. In fact, I don't even have cable or satellite because like many others, I download all my TV shows and movies through iTunes. I live in a state where all of our TV channels have gone digital so we can't get TV over the air at all unless we have cable or satellite or a converter box. It's been 10+ years since I've even been to a Bluckbusters or any store to even rent a DVD.

My videos will still be playable for many many years to come.

I have been thinking about getting an Apple TV just so I could stop watching all my iTunes videos on my 15" MBP and watch them on my ancient Sony :)

Anyways, there are still thousands and thousands of us out here who haven't gone the blu-ray route and I doubt if I ever will. I really don't care if I ever get one in a computer.
 
People would be surprised at just how many homes DON"T even own a Blu-ray player let alone an HD TV. I'm at about 150 homes a week and I see at least 75% of those with TVs such as Trinitrons and other tube type TVs.

Myself, I still own one of those old Sonys and I'll continue to use it until it breaks which may be another five years or more, it's 12 years old now. In fact, I don't even have cable or satellite because like many others, I download all my TV shows and movies through iTunes. I live in a state where all of our TV channels have gone digital so we can't get TV over the air at all unless we have cable or satellite or a converter box. It's been 10+ years since I've even been to a Bluckbusters or any store to even rent a DVD.

My videos will still be playable for many many years to come.

I have been thinking about getting an Apple TV just so I could stop watching all my iTunes videos on my 15" MBP and watch them on my ancient Sony :)

Anyways, there are still thousands and thousands of us out here who haven't gone the blu-ray route and I doubt if I ever will. I really don't care if I ever get one in a computer.
Just so you don't have to rely on your anecdotal evidence anymore, HDTV adaption rate in the US is around 50% and Blu-ray adaption rate is estimated to be around 35% by the end of the year, IIRC. ;) And all of the US has gone to digital OTA broadcasting not just certain states.


Lethal
 
Just so you don't have to rely on your anecdotal evidence anymore, HDTV adaption rate in the US is around 50% and Blu-ray adaption rate is estimated to be around 35% by the end of the year, IIRC. ;) And all of the US has gone to digital OTA broadcasting not just certain states.


Lethal

Thanks. I wasn't sure of the whole U.S. was digital yet because well, I don't have a way to watch TV so I miss some stuff :) I like it like that though.
 
Well this conversation has gone way overboard. Forget the 9.5mm thin loading slot drives, I agree with everyone who says they should simply do away with optical drives on Mac. HOWEVER, they should offer a USB external drive, like they do for the MBA and Mini Server, and there should be a Blu-ray option there.

Then the drive can be a tray load 12.5mm cheapo drive, no need for a particular form factor.

Personally ? I haven't watched a movie from optical disc on my computer in ages. I quit the practice when I finally ditched my Creative DXR2 kit after purchasing my first stand-alone DVD player. Of course, the Creative kit was hooked up to my TV. This was sometimes in the 90s back when the thing was 250$ and the cheapest DVD player was around 600$.

That's no excuse to not give the option to people who need/want it. I buy a lot of movies in a physical format and will for a long time. The Internet just isn't there yet, and even when it will be, I have a hard time trusting the cloud.

Heck, Music downloads are still a minority of music purchases. Physical CD purchases are still a bigger market than downloads. And those are 5 MB files. Instant gratification ? People would rather own something tangible for their money. That's the biggest hurdle to downloads.

And Lee. Dude. Chill, drop the coffee. And the Steve flavored Kool-aid. Your eyesight might return.

(Kool-aid is not an insult, it represents Blind Loyalty to a cult leader. People blindly repeating what Steve says as gospel. If the guy was right even half the time, we'd have flying cars by now.)

Just as you mentioned physical DVD versus digital download - I know, the digital kids will crucify me for this, but

The audio quality on an original physical CD is way superior than any song, you digitally downloaded on a store. Only solution would be, if Apple/Amazon/you name it would distribute lossless files or .iso-files.

But the digital kids don't care, as a study suggested. See here.

Funny, heh, they prefer the oh so typical P2P-common trashy 128bit-MP3.
 
wow. 45 pages of discussion on this? REALLY?

Blu-Ray is DEAD.

It was dead out-of-the gate. Physical media is so quaint. I was lucky to unload my entire DVD collection (hundreds of movies) for $1 a disc, and I feel like I ripped the guy off! Now, the studios are DESPERATE to unload DVDs at WalMart for $3.99 a disc before Ma & Pa Middle America realize that the Cloud is the future. And they know that Blu-Ray will NEVER reach the market penetration that DVD did.

Why in the world would we want physical media when we can store and stream everything digitally? And, of course, I'm talking about going forward. In other words, YES, there may be issues with HD content and bandwidth and niche needs for physical media, but as the tech and the marketplace develop, digital solutions will stay ahead of Blu-Ray and it will die a deserved death.

BLU-RAY IS DEAD.

(P.S. - for the wedding videographer who said customers want Blu-Rays of their weddings - customers of the future will want a digital copy in iPhone/iPad/AppleTV compatible sizes, NOT discs)

Amen!
 
People would be surprised at just how many homes DON"T even own a Blu-ray player let alone an HD TV. I'm at about 150 homes a week and I see at least 75% of those with TVs such as Trinitrons and other tube type TVs.

Myself, I still own one of those old Sonys and I'll continue to use it until it breaks which may be another five years or more, it's 12 years old now. In fact, I don't even have cable or satellite because like many others, I download all my TV shows and movies through iTunes. I live in a state where all of our TV channels have gone digital so we can't get TV over the air at all unless we have cable or satellite or a converter box. It's been 10+ years since I've even been to a Bluckbusters or any store to even rent a DVD.

My videos will still be playable for many many years to come.

I have been thinking about getting an Apple TV just so I could stop watching all my iTunes videos on my 15" MBP and watch them on my ancient Sony :)

Anyways, there are still thousands and thousands of us out here who haven't gone the blu-ray route and I doubt if I ever will. I really don't care if I ever get one in a computer.

Will the AppleTV even work with a TV that old?
 
I just read a report on nytimes.com that states that Apple is working on a major overhaul of Apple TV including a completely redesigned interface. Could involve an entirely new product as well as updating the current ATV.

Could be very interesting.
 
Seriously, knock it off. I am not, nor have I ever been a "Kool aid" drinker (and that is most definitely calling people blind followers, as you have just admitted- therefore, an insult.). More often than not, I have been against what Apple has done in the past, like doing away with matte screens and firewire. It IS an insult, as you try to paint me as some blind follower of Steve Jobs. I can assure you, I am most definitely not. I see the need here for Blu-ray support, you have an argument there, but I see absolutely no need for Apple to include Blu-ray drives in all of their machines.

When you blindly repeat Steve's bullet points against the technology, you have a blind loyalty yes. It's not an insult, it's a fact. Again, lay down the coffee and chill.

As for Blu-ray, it's not so much the drives that are important, as people have pointed out, you can buy them yourself and plug them into your Mac easily.

It's the software support. DVD Player needs to be able to read and playback Blu-ray movies (and a name change). That is something for now that only Apple can do.

The only true HD is FULL 1080p resolution.

1080p is one thing, Blu-ray is another. You have to factor in compression too. You have have 2 1080p movies and one will look like complete crap and the other will have close to perfect quality.

The difference is in the compression settings you use in the encoder. People claiming that H.264 1080p streams off the net will look anything like Blu-ray are plain ignorant. 45 mbps bit rates for video is not unheard of for Blu-ray. Sustain that over your 6 mbps DSL pipe, we aren't even talking about the audio yet.

Seriously, the "cloud" (why try to rename the Internet ?) isn't there yet. It's not going to be there for a long while. Something as easy as digital music distribution, with 5 MB files, isn't quite there yet either. Even with high VBR or 320 kbps CBR which make mp3 files as close to CDs as you'll get, CDs still offer better quality. A frickin 25 year old technology. And people still buy more CDs than they do downloads because of the tangible good for your money.

Working at my student job in the 90s, the cable company, they presented us a graph. 50% of the population doesn't care. They are set in their ways and just want what they know. 30% will wait a few years and adopt. 15% adopt new stuff after a year or so. 5% are bleeding edge and wait in line for the latest crap, no matter how good or bad it is. This was research done by the marketing dept.

Once you go over the 50% penetration line, you've just burst into the population that doesn't care. You're mainstream and here to stay. Blu-ray is now around 37% penetration, well into the people who wait a few years and then adopt. It's going to be mainstream in the next few years as DVD players get phased out. The DVD backward compatibility is going to ensure that.

Yes. Apple TV says it uses component cables (RCA) and my TV has several of those inputs.

Of course your 75% is way off, but that's expected of cherry picked anecdotal evidence. HDTV penetration rates are much higher than that. Blu-ray is now at 37%, HDTV is probably around 50% now (46% at the start of the year).

I have one of those Sony Wega, 27" big ass tubes. Of course, I also have a HDTV. It has 2 inputs for Component, which is not the same as composite (both use RCA connectors). Don't mix them up, they're not the same.
 
The bottom line is that they don't want anything taking away from their precious iTunes base. That's fine, I guess... I just wish they'd be straight about it instead of making up lies to make them seem less douchey than they've already become.

The fact that Jobs won't officially admit to this shows his arrogance. He's trying to protect Apple TV but given that project has not been anything close to the roaring success of the iPod and iPhone, I think he needs to sooner or later admit defeat and embrace the still-growing Blu-ray momentum. And the MacBook Pro, iMac and Mac Pro are ready hardware-wise to include full BD-ROM/BD-R/BD-RE disc support.
 
The fact that Jobs won't officially admit to this shows his arrogance. He's trying to protect Apple TV but given that project has not been anything close to the roaring success of the iPod and iPhone, I think he needs to sooner or later admit defeat and embrace the still-growing Blu-ray momentum. And the MacBook Pro, iMac and Mac Pro are ready hardware-wise to include full BD-ROM/BD-R/BD-RE disc support.

AppleTV with Blu-ray, for around the same price it is now, would definitely be a mover.
 
When you blindly repeat Steve's bullet points against the technology, you have a blind loyalty yes. It's not an insult, it's a fact. Again, lay down the coffee and chill.

Something I did NOT do, and do not do. Stop it with your BS. It gets old when people don't even know when they're being insulting. I don't drink coffee either.

As for Blu-ray, it's not so much the drives that are important, as people have pointed out, you can buy them yourself and plug them into your Mac easily.

It's the software support. DVD Player needs to be able to read and playback Blu-ray movies (and a name change). That is something for now that only Apple can do.

I already said software support was needed. I just don't think every one of their computers needs a Blu-ray drive. Take off your blindfold and read or work on your comprehension skills. Oh- that wasn't an insult, BTW. ;)
 
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