Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
these are just "bits", so the cost is basically "zero".
Making copies of the original bits into another set of bits is relatively low cost, but creating the music, movie, TV show, book, magazine article, video game, software program, etc., that makes the original bits valuable is far from free.

Also, in the case of Radiohead they had a "pay what you want" setup and most people, IIRC, paid nothing. For a band like Radiohead (or NIN), which is already filthy rich and has a global following thanks to years of 'old media' success, they can afford to experiment in self-producing and self-distributing like this but for your typical artist, which doesn't have millions of dollars stashed away in the bank, it's not a very viable option.

I wish that 'going it alone' and having wild success via the internet was simple as some here make it out to be because if it was my life would be a lot easier than it is right now.


Lethal
 
But renting movies is only 1 of about 40 features of the AppleTV. So value wise, the AppleTV is the top product Apple sells, it's wonderful.

Can you list those other 39 features that would make me want to pay as much as a superior PS3?
 
Really, and how exactly does that work? Are the middle men not important?.

yes, perhaps during the credits of each film, it would list out the hours they worked on the film, that would then be posted to a website and we'd check off who we give our $2 to... so we could pay each "keygrip" .006 cents per hour, an audio mix professional, .07 cents per hour, etc.

the whole goal of everyone on the internet is to get rid of the "middlemen" we only want to pay for people that create the film. nobody else should get paid.

that would be a fair deal for everyone, otherwise nobody will make a penny in the future.
 
Thanks for the laugh, Apple only uses open standards for streaming and content so nobody is trying to restrict your rights. YES, some content providers still require Apple to include DRM on some movies, but they no longer have any DRM on the iTunes Music Store, so you seem out of touch. Apple never required any DRM, so you need to be upset with the publishers, not Apple... a lot of people get confused on that.

With the AppleTV, it's completely open, you can play any content you want from any source on your network, so it goes to show you don't know how the AppleTV or any "Apple product" works, that's all.

The AppleTV completely open? No it isn't, you are restricted to the formats Apple allows, unless you hack it, and after that, it is no longer an Apple product.

And questioning my knowledge, that is a laugh, especially with the child based comments you have been making here, you have the knowledge of a 10 year old that has just been given their own MacBook, have fun when you grow up.
 
yes, perhaps during the credits of each film, it would list out the hours they worked on the film, that would then be posted to a website and we'd check off who we give our $2 to... so we could pay each "keygrip" .006 cents per hour, an audio mix professional, .07 cents per hour, etc.

the whole goal of everyone on the internet is to get rid of the "middlemen" we only want to pay for people that create the film. nobody else should get paid.

that would be a fair deal for everyone, otherwise nobody will make a penny in the future.

Why would a key grip work for .006 cents? At that rate, they'd make basically nothing and would quit. When they quit, films would stop being made.

Films cost millions to make, even a low budget one, what you ares proposing is simply not mathematically possible.
 
Can you list those other 39 features that would make me want to pay as much as a superior PS3?

i already did, look at my previous posts. the PS3 is a sad sack compared to the AppleTV for media, and as Apple brings the 225,000 Apps to the AppleTV in the coming year, the PS3 will further fall from grace.
 
Why would a key grip work for .006 cents? At that rate, they'd make basically nothing and would quit. When they quit, films would stop being made.

Films cost millions to make, even a low budget one, what you ares proposing is simply not mathematically possible.

you forgot to add the "volume" of viewers. a top key grip should make more with this new method, it's just he or she would be paid directly, no middlemen taking a 90% cut.

nonsense, there is a massive sea of upcoming movie producers that will work for nearly free. apple has cultivated this group for over 2 decades. movies are fun to make, they were never designed to make money... so let's return to that ideal.

sure, movies can still cost millions, but the need for a $15 DVD or $10 ticket to see it in a theater needs to be removed from the equation. a movie needs to be like an "App". you pay .99 cents or $1.99... and the developer/producers makes it up in pure volume... that's the goal of everyone here, so i'm not sure why you are against it.
 
you forgot to add the "volume" of viewers. a top key grip should make more with this new method, it's just he or she would be paid directly, no middlemen taking a 90% cut.

nonsense, there is a massive sea of upcoming movie producers that will work for nearly free. apple has cultivated this group for over 2 decades. movies are fun to make, they were never designed to make money... so let's return to that ideal.

sure, movies can still cost millions, but the need for a $15 DVD or $10 ticket to see it in a theater needs to be removed from the equation. a movie needs to be like an "App". you pay .99 cents or $1.99... and the developer/producers makes it up in pure volume... that's the goal of everyone here, so i'm not sure why you are against it.
Is that like how Apple should lower the price of it's products and make up for the difference in volume? Oh wait... That would be denied to the death in this forum.
 
you forgot to add the "volume" of viewers. a top key grip should make more with this new method, it's just he or she would be paid directly, no middlemen taking a 90% cut.

nonsense, there is a massive sea of upcoming movie producers that will work for nearly free. apple has cultivated this group for over 2 decades. movies are fun to make, they were never designed to make money... so let's return to that ideal.

sure, movies can still cost millions, but the need for a $15 DVD or $10 ticket to see it in a theater needs to be removed from the equation. a movie needs to be like an "App". you pay .99 cents or $1.99... and the developer/producers makes it up in pure volume... that's the goal of everyone here, so i'm not sure why you are against it.

So, when I go to buy props, fm stock, equipment, I will just get it for free? The people in the rental house will just say "hey, don't worry about it, pay us when or if you ever make money"

What about food? When you work on a film, generally you expect some catering, where is that going to come from?

I have yet to meet this massive sea of upcoming movie producers who are willing to work for free, out of curiosity, how do they plan to pay for a film costing millions?
 
The AppleTV completely open? No it isn't, you are restricted to the formats Apple allows, unless you hack it, and after that, it is no longer an Apple product.

No, it supports all open formats, H.264 and protected H.264: Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats, iTunes Store purchased video: 320 by 240 pixels, 640 by 480 pixels, 720 by 480 pixels (anamorphic), or high-definition 720p

MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

So you are saying if you add even more formats it's no longer a Microsoft or HP product? Nonsense.

Everyone realizes you don't have a lot of knowledge on this topic, but I'm glad I was able to help you see the light.
 
Blue ray supporters get a hold of yourselves! This thread is about everything from the legality of ripped media to the reasons why people had minidiscs, who cares!

Why are the people who want blu ray fighting with each other in this thread now? Probably just a sign that we have all been caught up in this thread a little too long.

This isn't about morals, convictions, or right and wrong, this is about wanting Mac OS X to support a perfectly good media format. Just like it did for cds, dvds, and digital downloads.

And obviously something is wrong with macdrew, he has issues this thread doesn't have the time to figure out. So everyone relax and let's hope Apple will see the light and give us blu ray support!
 
you forgot to add the "volume" of viewers. a top key grip should make more with this new method, it's just he or she would be paid directly, no middlemen taking a 90% cut.

nonsense, there is a massive sea of upcoming movie producers that will work for nearly free. apple has cultivated this group for over 2 decades. movies are fun to make, they were never designed to make money... so let's return to that ideal.

sure, movies can still cost millions, but the need for a $15 DVD or $10 ticket to see it in a theater needs to be removed from the equation. a movie needs to be like an "App". you pay .99 cents or $1.99... and the developer/producers makes it up in pure volume... that's the goal of everyone here, so i'm not sure why you are against it.
Your concept of reality is captivating. Completely out of touch but captivating none the less.


Lethal
 
So everyone relax and let's hope Apple will see the light and give us blu ray support!

But Apple will NEVER support Blu-ray, you can bank on it... Blu-ray is a dead end, so give it up obsolete people, Blu-ray isn't advanced enough for Apple products.

This is my last post, have a happy time with your 19th century spinning wheels! :p
 
I'll buy a trolley load of popcorn with madrews virtual world money.

Halfwit would be doing fractions a disservice!!!
 
No, let's download a movie from iTunes and watch a crap looking and sounding movie half an hour later.

Isn't wittering on about the superior Home Theater awesomeness of BluRay ..and then saying you want to watch it on a computer....

....a bit like saying you love the superb handling and vast power of the Bugatti Veyron, and then admitting you actually only own a bicycle?

C.
 
And Rezor (of NIN) in particular understands this and understands how to monetize his fanbase.

Musicians can give away content and create an audience which can be monetized by doing live shows. This is encouraging recording artists to build real audiences, and deliver thrilling live performances. Which isn't a bad thing.

Reznor also understands what fans are willing to pay. When he released Ghosts, he offered super-cheap downloads at one end. And limited edition packs with photographs, studio disks and Vinyl versions at $300 a pop.

He sold out of the $300 version in a day. I think limited meant 5000 units. Not a bad return on a quick studio tape. Reznor does not have a publisher, so it went straight to the artists. (ie Him)

I think the movie industry needs to think similarly to monetise movies. Real fans will pay through the nose for limited edition memorabilia. For making-ofs for behind the scenes documents. For screenplays.

People who are *not* fans need a different approach. Very low prices for PPV rental. Complete convenience. The ability to purchase on impulse.

I think the movie business is getting it wrong at the moment. The pirates get a better deal than the paying customers. In the UK every DVD is proceeded by non-skippable anti-piracy warnings and in some cases non-skippable trailers and advertisements.

When you start treating paying customers like criminals, its not surpising that some people prefer to stop paying.

C.


this is a scary (IMO) point of view..
 
(Egads, now up to 76 pages)

Apple charges a premium not for being cool; not for being Apple; not for something flushing out of Steve Jobs.

Apple charges a premium for the ONLY LOGICAL reason it can in a market in a depressed economy; because Apple products are supposed to be BETTER by being CUTTING EDGE.

Being cutting edge means you give people what they need BEFORE THEY EVEN REALIZE they need it.

Being cutting edge means you give people the latest technology BEFORE ANYONES ELSE DOES.

Unfortunately, you've committed a logical fallacy in assuming that the only way to be 'better' is through technology (with an emphasis on hardware).

There's other definitions of 'better', such as something being more reliable.

Not a single item of iCrap is, or has ever been, CUTTING EDGE. What it is is rehashed old fads and reworked versions of failed product.

Another defintion of 'better' can be easier (ease of use).

The iLife products are actually an example of this: you call them iCrap because they're not cutting edge in terms of geeky technogical standards, but the counterpoint is that they are generally stable and very, very easy to use. As such, they have a very nice learning curve which fosters adoption and acceptance.

And of course, this is threatening to the techno-elite, who find their lofty Guru status is being threatened because their previously esoteric skills becoming more accessible and thus commonplace.


Why do HDTV's continue to advance in picture quality if the normal mass market does not care about quality?

Perhaps it is for the same reason why the Windows PC marketplace is defined by differentiation based on hardware features at various price points, even if the hardware differences aren't particularly meaningful or significant? When consumer doesn't have much anything else with which for him to base a purchase decision upon, seeing a 100Mhz refresh rate on a Spec Sheet will be perceived as better than a 99MHz refresh rate, even if the difference can't be noticed.


Steve doesn't care about the video or audio quality. Because he does not care he doesn't think anyone else should.

YMMV. I suspect that Steve very much recognizes quality, but he also recognizes the application of the saying, "Better is the Enemy of Good Enough".

Specifically, let's each think about ourselves for a moment, and some of the things that we routinely do around our own homes? Do we run the vacuum cleaner? How about the lawn mower? Hedge trimmers? Leaf Blower? Various power tools? Recreational shooting?

For most of us (especially over age 30), the answer is probably 'yes' to many of these, if not all. This observation on its own appears to be irrelevant...


who are these people that can tell and don't care about the difference in quality? more likely than not, they are people who haven't seen one...

But now here's the relevancy: for which of the above devices do we wear suitable hearing protection?

If your answer isn't 100% of them faithfully 100% of the time, then we've already incurred permanent hearing loss. Its typically an amount that is more than adequate to obscure the "golden ear" differences between the highest quality audio and a merely high quality version that implimentated some form of data compression for the same.

Logically, when one can't literally hear the difference anymore, is it worth paying more for it?

Similarly, there's also background ambient noise conditions which will drown out the subtle differences even for the Golden Ears. When our Use Case doesn't consistently afford us the optimal listening (and viewing) environment, doesn't this also change the value paradigm and ultimately, the decision to "how much is good enough?"?

Yes, if one is setting up a soundproofed ubermedia room, it makes a difference. But for the other 98% of the time, its cognitively indiscernable.


Would you like to know why Mr. Steve Jobs is pushing mobile so much?

Who says it was Jobs who pushed it? Over 50% of new PCs (including Macs) are laptops, and this is despite them giving you less hardware Oomph and costing more. As such, who is to blame for that change in consumer buying habits? Has 50% of the entire world's population of PC users been somehow brainwashed?

Mobile doesn't give life; it sucks it up like a succubus.

But it sure makes more money for Apple...

...as well as every other electronics producer today. But by some stretch of logic, only Apple is to blame for this trend. Check.

Of course, those damned desktops WOULD be updated more frequently if Jobs and Apple KEPT THEM CUTTING EDGE.

Given how much more stable & predictable OS X is versus the Windows alternatives, and how frequently the OS has been udpated, Apple has kept their products to be 'Cutting Edge'...of course, the difference here is in our consumer definitions and value paradigms: you're begging for the latest & greatest hardware increments - - but Apple hasn't really been in that part of the market space for roughly a decade.



I'd just like to see Apple have a division that actaully CARES about their COMPUTERS instead of just their gadgets. OSX has a ways to go yet to beat Windows in every regard and they will NEVER get there if they keep this attitude of "Maybe NEXT year we will concentrate on the Mac". That should NEVER happen... The sad thing is that those of us that actually care about the "Mac" and OSX proper can see the writing on the wall. It may take years, but unless something changes, the Mac just isn't going to be competitive much longer...Apple cannot afford to just sit idle for a year and push phones...

Well stated on the big picture. I'm concerned too.


The first punched card programmable machines are from 18th-century France.

And analog computers go back much, much further.


So basely Mac are using generic sound cards where PC are using HD sound.. SO again the Macs are not using the best..

Not anything new. Try reading up on graphics cards for the Mac Pro ... and the PowerMac before it. Regardless of what people like to believe, Apple has generally not been on the cutting edge for such stuff, except as very select cherrypicked cases: the A4 CPU, the MBA CPU, the Retna Display, etc.

There is a pattern that can be discerned if you know what to look for, but it isn't one of "Technology for Technology's Sake".


Thief. Artists cannot grow and prosper when you steal their work. The infrastructure that surrounds them and performs vital necessary services for them cannot grow and prosper when you steal their work.

As a content creator, while I do believe in Intellectual Property rights, I find that it is increasingly difficult to ethically justify their protection when we look at the IMNSHO insane ~100 year period of protection for copyrights today in context of how comparatively short other forms of IP protection are, such as a hardware Design Patent.

Perhaps its time to roll back US Copyright law to the Copyright Act of 1790: a period of 14 years, with a single +14 year extension (if requested).

Given that typically 95%++ of the revenue is made on IP within its first few years, why should the content owners be clearly so self-servingly greedy for that last few percent in the 'long tail' Particularly since (and here's the contemporary relevancy here) it is only through the form of no-physical-media distribution ... ie, downloads ... that a positive revenue business model really can exist at all?

However, I'm not an expert. I go by my gut, and my conscience, to tell me what's right and what is wrong.

YMMV, but my moral compass clearly tells me that a ~100 year protection on IP is absolutely wrong when this protection is descriminatory because it only applies to for select IP material (ie just copyrighted stuff) and not all IP.

Feel free to disagree ... but while doing so, be sure to rationally explain why the period of protection for this type of IP material is justified to be increasing when its barriers to marketplace entry are decreasing. Good luck.


-hh
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.