Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[DoFoT9]

wow. didnt this turn into a bitch fest overnight!

No, some people just live in rural areas and aren't able to get broadband.

my mate about 20mins south from me cant get broadband - i can get 20mbit ADSL2+ (i live a 1min drive from exchange). its a very real thing around here in australia, i have only had broadband about 4 years.

Who's this "we" you speak of. Not everyone in the US has flat rate unlimited bandwidth. Some ISPs in the US have caps. I know, you're probably shocked to hear that.

most certainly not! i would say the majority of people dont have the access to download what they want, when they want.

Not true. Blu-ray is starting to outsell DVD. And again, I also find it insulting that you're calling areas where schools use PCs "very backwards". My high school and college both used PCs and my area is anywhere but backwards.

slowly. i think for a year or so from here on people will still prefer DVDs as they are far cheaper then BDs currently (apart from new releases, which are normally identical prices).

Thief. Rotten damned admitted thief. No namecalling here, you've identified and damned yourself, as well as completely and utterly negated anything further you have to poison the discussion.

Thanks.

sorry but who are you to judge? if that particular user wishes to do so then good for them. no use name calling and bashing when its not relevant in the thread. we are talking about BD coming to Macs - not the fact that one user torrents we have all done something illegal in one way or another.

 

[Carniphage]

wow. didnt this turn into a bitch fest overnight!

It's very odd.

It turns out that if someone wants to play a DVD on a Mac (which supports DVD) they are a thief.

But if someone wants to play a BluRay on a Mac (which has never supported the format) that's a moral quest for platform improvement.

You couldn't write this stuff.

C.

 

[-hh]

...I think the movie industry needs to think similarly to monetise movies...I think the movie business is getting it wrong at the moment. The pirates get a better deal than the paying customers. In the UK every DVD is proceeded by non-skippable anti-piracy warnings and in some cases non-skippable trailers and advertisements.

When you start treating paying customers like criminals, its not surpising that some people prefer to stop paying.

C.

this is a scary (IMO) point of view..

It is scary to the industry, true.

However, the premise is spot-on: the (illegally) ripped Movie has value-added to the consumer in being more friendly of an experience (removal of ads, FBI warning & other non-skippables), plus it is easier to manage (copyright protections removed) ...

... the fact that it is also "Free" (is at least for some), gravy. The real question is how much MORE would a legit consumer really be willing to spend for just such a "de-burdened" copy?

If a $20 movie could thus be sold for $25, that's the Studio leaving $5 on the table. Who besides the Studio is really to blame for that?

Historically, what the iTunes business model really revealed was that when you make it EASY and CHEAP for a customer to be legal, he's willing to give you his money.

Take away easy -or- cheap and the business plan doesn't work...and that's what's effectively broken here.


-hh

 

[Carniphage]

this is a scary (IMO) point of view..

In what way?

I am not arguing that consumer should not pay for content.

I am suggesting that content producers offer services and value added to satisfy their customers. Customers who are often loyal and act as ambassadors and advocates.

Content creators who understand how to build a relationship with their audience will always thrive. They build a fanbase. They reward loyalty. The relationship becomes a conversation.

While content creators who treat customers as a potential criminals don't deserve an audience.

The practice of treating customers as scum can survive when customers have no choices. But the the internet has changed that permanently. Its interesting to see how some content creators are changing their tactics - and some are just getting meaner.

We live in interesting times.

C.

 

[archipellago]

It's very odd.

It turns out that if someone wants to play a DVD on a Mac (which supports DVD) they are a thief.

But if someone wants to play a BluRay on a Mac (which has never supported the format) that's a moral quest for platform improvement.

You couldn't write this stuff.

C.

you need to go back and re-read the thread, thats not even close to being the point.. or even factually accurate.

 

[DoFoT9]

so much disagreeing! i dont get it. cant we all agree that if apple isnt going to develop BD playback-abilities on their computer, then they SHOULD let another 3rd party person do it!?

or not - apple has to implement low level stuff first.

 

[archipellago]

It is scary to the industry, true.

However, the premise is spot-on: the (illegally) ripped Movie has value-added to the consumer in being more friendly of an experience (removal of ads, FBI warning & other non-skippables), plus it is easier to manage (copyright protections removed) ...

... the fact that it is also "Free" (is at least for some), gravy. The real question is how much MORE would a legit consumer really be willing to spend for just such a "de-burdened" copy?

If a $20 movie could thus be sold for $25, that's the Studio leaving $5 on the table. Who besides the Studio is really to blame for that?

Historically, what the iTunes business model really revealed was that when you make it EASY and CHEAP for a customer to be legal, he's willing to give you his money.

Take away easy -or- cheap and the business plan doesn't work...and that's what's effectively broken here.


-hh

The bigger iTunes and all digital downloads have become then piracy has also grown exponentially.

Giving illegal downloaders a legal alternative doesn't mean and hasn't been borne out in reality that piracy decreases as a side affect.

if legal alternatives actually worked then piracy would decline but it hasn't its' growth actually outstrips any legal download service.

 

[cube]

(Egads, now up to 76 pages)

And analog computers go back much, much further.

I know calculators go back a long time. The keyword here is programmability.

 

[LethalWolfe]

That graph is awesome.

 

[DoFoT9]

I know calculators go back a long time. The keyword here is programmability.

where there is maths, there is logic

 

[Carniphage]

so much disagreeing! i dont get it. cant we all agree that if apple isnt going to develop BD playback-abilities on their computer, then they SHOULD let another 3rd party person do it!?

3rd party drives (for burning) *are* available on the Mac Pro.

I think the problem for playback is that the BluRay consortium demands that every part of the hardware - from the laser on the disk right through to the screen. - And every component in between - has to be certified and secured against the prospect of illegal duplication of the holy blue bits.

This places a number of demands on the computer manufacturer. As well as requiring them to pay licensing costs and so on. This is a cost that needs to be added to every Mac.

So here's a counter solution: Buy a player.

C.

 

[Carniphage]

The bigger iTunes and all digital downloads have become then piracy has also grown exponentially.

If you look at what fills the pirates hard drives, you will not find many cracked Fairplay files. You will however find an awful lot of BluRay disk rips.

So wouldn't it be just as valid to suggest that BluRay was causing the exponential rise in piracy?

The fact of the matter is that any business model has to compete with piracy. So content creators have to come up with ways to address that. DRM and accusing customers of theft is not working.

Low prices and convenience is one way.
High quality and value added features is another.

C.

 

[Lancer]

so much disagreeing! i dont get it. cant we all agree that if apple isnt going to develop BD playback-abilities on their computer, then they SHOULD let another 3rd party person do it!?

or not - apple has to implement low level stuff first.

This is why I was wondering if VLC would work to play BR movies? I'm in R4 but have several DVDs bought on Amazon, the built in DVD software of course asks me to change the region, while VLC just plays the DVD. So putting a BR player/burner in my G5 could VLC play the movie?

 

[DoFoT9]

3rd party drives (for burning) *are* available on the Mac Pro.

I think the problem for playback is that the BluRay consortium demands that every part of the hardware - from the laser on the disk right through to the screen. - And every component in between - has to be certified and secured against the prospect of illegal duplication of the holy blue bits.

This places a number of demands on the computer manufacturer. As well as requiring them to pay licensing costs and so on. This is a cost that needs to be added to every Mac.

So here's a counter solution: Buy a player.

C.

i KNOW that we can burn with DVD SP. im not silly. i want to PLAYBACK the commercially purchased BDs.

as for the legality of playback - it should already be done. the GPU would be certified, but im not sure of the wires

fair point about licensing costs.

i have a player - its called a PS3. but like i said before, im not going upstairs where its noisy (brother, family, kitchen etc) - id rather watch it on my superior iMac with ACTUAL speakers

This is why I was wondering if VLC would work to play BR movies? I'm in R4 but have several DVDs bought on Amazon, the built in DVD software of course asks me to change the region, while VLC just plays the DVD. So putting a BR player/burner in my G5 could VLC play the movie?

unfortunately not. playback as stated above is harder then it sounds. the computer OS itself and ALL hardware comp etc. this can only be done by apple

 

[Lancer]

unfortunately not. playback as stated above is harder then it sounds. the computer OS itself and ALL hardware comp etc. this can only be done by apple

Thats a shame, the reason I ask is the DVD in my G5 might be on it's last legs and while the BR burners still cost more I just thought maybe it would be worth it, even just for the extra storage option.

Maybe I'll stick with getting a DVD-RW and spend the rest on a stand alone BR player which can view YouTube, play video off USB and do everything I need.

 

[DoFoT9]

Thats a shame, the reason I ask is the DVD in my G5 might be on it's last legs and while the BR burners still cost more I just thought maybe it would be worth it, even just for the extra storage option.

Maybe I'll stick with getting a DVD-RW and spend the rest on a stand alone BR player which can view YouTube, play video off USB and do everything I need.

you could rip the BDs that you have purchased using MakeMKV if you like. that will convert them into digitsed movies which you can then watch/stream. i think your G5 would struggle to play them back though.

too bad apple wont give us the support we need ;(

 

[archipellago]

In what way?

I am not arguing that consumer should not pay for content.

I am suggesting that content producers offer services and value added to satisfy their customers. Customers who are often loyal and act as ambassadors and advocates.

Content creators who understand how to build a relationship with their audience will always thrive. They build a fanbase. They reward loyalty. The relationship becomes a conversation.

While content creators who treat customers as a potential criminals don't deserve an audience.

The practice of treating customers as scum can survive when customers have no choices. But the the internet has changed that permanently. Its interesting to see how some content creators are changing their tactics - and some are just getting meaner.

We live in interesting times.

C.

The basis for any democratic society is that the vast majority of people obey the law, without that you have nothing.

Aside from your brazen internet piracy and copyright infringement offences..already admitted in this thread I assume you also obey the law the majority of the time..

yet for some reason, you and thousands of others believe that the internet is some kind of law leveller and gives you some magical exempt power..it doesn't and in actual fact its real easy to follow.

it goes like this....

You walk into HMV or buy from Amazon a dvd or bluray disc. The disc is clearly labelled with useage restrictions (small print) and how you may watch it (Licence).

If you then want to watch said disc on your portable device then if you have a iPod/iPad your only legal way to do this is by buying it from iTunes....which as a by product is also much more convenient than ripping and encoding it to mp4.

it really is that simple...you have no more right to rip it and put it on your iDevice than you do to walk into HMV and take it without paying.

as has been said earlier .... theft is theft is theft.... it really is that simple.

so even though its more convenient and legal to buy it from iTunes and watch it you make a conscious decision to break the law...having first bought a disc (your choice) that tells you how you may use it.




now you may think that the law is stupid and you hate it, others may agree. Unfortunately though that isn't your choice to make, if you feel strongly enough then lobby your MP...even the PM.

you can't do 90mph down the motorway and then say to the copper to let you off because you were in a rush.

you can't just take a loaf of bread from Tesco and not pay cos you were in a rush and it was more convenient not to.

Content producers expect the vast majority of people to obey the law, thats it. if you think something is worth watching..pay for it..reward the artist and publisher so that they can make more. If you want to watch something on your iPad...buy it separately.

this is simply a basic lesson in right and wrong, the fact that I'm having this with someone of an age to know and think better in 2010 is the scary part.

 

[macdrew]

so much disagreeing! i dont get it. cant we all agree that if apple isnt going to develop BD playback-abilities on their computer, then they SHOULD let another 3rd party person do it!?

or not - apple has to implement low level stuff first.

but why would Apple want to spend money to implement the code needed for Blu-ray playback when that format is now considered obsolete? It would serve no purpose to the Mac platform and only slow the march to full open, wireless standards.

Blu-ray has died out, it's like a floppy disk... so there is no reason to support it.

 

[cube]

You can't play menus, BD-Live, or 3D in OS X. My point of view is completely opposite to the previous diagram. I want the full Blu Ray experience.

 

[Lancer]

you could rip the BDs that you have purchased using MakeMKV if you like. that will convert them into digitsed movies which you can then watch/stream. i think your G5 would struggle to play them back though.

You might be right, I have only one full 1080 HD clip and it only just plays that, so much for having the power of a super computer, I guess my G5 is showing it's age.

But even if I had the money I'm not sure about upgrading to an Intel, especially new, knowing my luck I'd get the current iMac and then Jobs will have a change of heart and bring out a new model with BR burner and touch screen... you never know it could happen :lol:

too bad apple wont give us the support we need ;(

Doesn't iTunes have BR code already?

Maybe Jobs is betting on people making their own HD movies on their new iPhone 4, assuming the battery lasts long enough

 

[archipellago]

If you look at what fills the pirates hard drives, you will not find many cracked Fairplay files. You will however find an awful lot of BluRay disk rips.

So wouldn't it be just as valid to suggest that BluRay was causing the exponential rise in piracy?

The fact of the matter is that any business model has to compete with piracy. So content creators have to come up with ways to address that. DRM and accusing customers of theft is not working.

Low prices and convenience is one way.
High quality and value added features is another.

C.

in any other walk of life where law breaking was so common place....speeding, shoplifting etc. then the police would crack down like a ton of bricks. There is no deterrent. The threat of action doesn't work because it never comes...no other law is treated like this

if society cannot police its self with stuff like this then big brother will.

plenty of action can and likely will be taken.

1/ All internet use to be pay per use measured. Those who consume the most..pay the most, so even torrenters would pay something. Take a levy from the pay per use and give to (eg.) BPI as compensation for lost sales.

2/ All ISPs sign up to a pact to block torrent downloaders and report people who try. 3 strikes and you're out policy, a la france, would be fine. How many casual downloaders would get a cold shiver from a letter from their ISP saying...you have illegally downloaded....xyz.?

3/ name and shame.


you can dress up your own actions in as much verbiage as you like but the simple truth is this...

theft.

 

[DoFoT9]

but why would Apple want to spend money to implement the code needed for Blu-ray playback when that format is now considered obsolete? It would serve no purpose to the Mac platform and only slow the march to full open, wireless standards.

Blu-ray has died out, it's like a floppy disk... so there is no reason to support it.

h264 is obsolete? this is news to me

You might be right, I have only one full 1080 HD clip and it only just plays that, so much for having the power of a super computer, I guess my G5 is showing it's age.

im sorry to hear that you could compress them slightly - what bitrate is the test that you hate? (full rip etc?)

But even if I had the money I'm not sure about upgrading to an Intel, especially new, knowing my luck I'd get the current iMac and then Jobs will have a change of heart and bring out a new model with BR burner and touch screen... you never know it could happen :lol:

lol nah that wont happen.

Doesn't iTunes have BR code already?

it sure doesnt, remeber that MR headline a few years back? apple just added it into their copyright act or something-arather. they didnt actually add the functionality

p.s. arch ive said it once, ill say it again, nobody gives a rats about stealing. people will do what they want when they want and know that there is always the risk of getting caught

 

[Slim02]

but why would Apple want to spend money to implement the code needed for Blu-ray playback when that format is now considered obsolete? It would serve no purpose to the Mac platform and only slow the march to full open, wireless standards.

Blu-ray has died out, it's like a floppy disk... so there is no reason to support it.

This is my last post, have a happy time with your 19th century spinning wheels!

Yet here you are again and lying again too.

Funny thing is you can not buy floppy disk where you can buy Blu-ray disc LMAO.. You are making yourself look foolish and uneducated every time you post.. Also who going to listens to liars and thief's like yourself that has no clue?

 

[Lancer]

it sure doesnt, remeber that MR headline a few years back? apple just added it into their copyright act or something-arather. they didnt actually add the functionality

Then why does it have "CD, DVD, Blue-ray Disc ..." listed in the About iTunes window on the latest version, from memory it's been there for years.

 

[LethalWolfe]

If you then want to watch said disc on your portable device then if you have a iPod/iPad your only legal way to do this is by buying it from iTunes....which as a by product is also much more convenient than ripping and encoding it to mp4.

it really is that simple...you have no more right to rip it and put it on your iDevice than you do to walk into HMV and take it without paying.

Again, speaking in terms of US copyright law only, you have the same right to rip a DVD onto your computer, and even subsequently put it on your mobile device, that you do a CD. Space shifting and time shifting for personal use in the US is 100% legal and has been tested in court for over two decades. I have the legal right to take all my VHS tapes and burn them to DVD or put them on a media server in my home, for example, just like I have the same legal right to make mix CDs or copy custom playlists of songs onto my Shuffle.

Now, do some people want to step in the way of this? Yes, of course. Movie studios would love to sell people the same movie as many times over as they can (VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, digital download, etc.,). And because they want customers to keep re-buying the same thing over and over again they lobby for legislation like the DMCA and to keep extending the time limits for keeping IP out of the public domain. The DMCA contains provisions that basically do an end run around US copyright law and deny the end user their legal rights established by US Supreme Court and at least one Act of Congress and you think this is a good thing?


Lethal