Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[KnightWRX]

Please show Apple some of those solutions that don't suck major ass in the usability/reliability department. Then they might reconsider it. They're exactly that, toys. And their usefulness is questioned often.

Where does this idea that if Apple doesn't do it, it means it doesn't work come from anyhow ? Seriously, I can't wait for Apple to get into cars, construction, clothing, processed foods, furniture so that we can finally have products that work.

This attitude is the most frustrating one on here. It's a bad faith argument that has no basis in reality whatsoever.

 

[LethalWolfe]

There hasnt been any movements on this to date? I see that option in DVDSP and it makes me laugh. Im still using Toast to create single one-off BD discs. No menus of course. We have Encore but I havent had to create a menu to date. How is Encore for menus?

I haven't used Encore first hand, but I've heard the Mac version has issues to the point that at least one company I know of purchased a PC just to author their Blu-rays. But that was with CS3 or CS4 so hopefully things are improved in CS5.


Lethal

 

[xbjllb]

Why can't they just proof their content from the HDD? The only extra thing they would learn from doing it from an actual Blu-ray disc is tell them is the factory that pressed it did so correctly.

To tell them THEY burned it correctly. People who do short runs (most Apple pro users) don't replicate, they burn. Just like DVD's and CD's before them.

And isn't it just a little beyond dumb to market prop apps that claim they can burn BD but the system can't proof them?

But if the expensive computer hardware can't do it as well as the cheap standalone player, if anything that should sour the user experience with the computer, not enhance it. And Apple is all about a positive user experience, even if they have to deny users things that, while desirable, might sour said experience if they did not execute properly.

That is almost hysterically funny, given that it's been obvious company policy since Jobs came back to release everything far before its time and utilize early adopters as beta-testers, from hardware to the OS updates itself.

Look at the latest iPhone disaster... Jobs' bought and paid for press are calling it Apple's Vista!

So the real machine people want Blu-ray on is the Mac Mini

I want it on the Mac Pro. Actually, it should be available throughout the line on any computers with the processor and memory capability. I agree with you, not on those that can't handle it.

Well, we need to keep in mind Steve is ahead of the market by about 5 years, so there wouldn't be a point to slow down the Mac platform by trying to include obsolete technology like Blu-ray.

ANYBODY five years ahead of the market is going to fail, and it's arguable that the man is not five years ahead when it comes to downloads killing optical media, but at least a full ten years and probably more like fifteen.

Despite being how you live your life to keep from paying for anything.

I haven't used Encore first hand, but I've heard the Mac version has issues to the point that at least one company I know of purchased a PC just to author their Blu-rays. But that was with CS3 or CS4 so hopefully things are improved in CS5.

Haven't tried CS5 yet but I (and hundreds of net posts and articles) will vouch that CS4 was useless for any Blu-ray project that tried to author a full-features disc with more than one menu, and in some cases, ANY menu whatsoever.

I will be upgrading before I author the next disc, and will let you know if CS5 has been improved to the point of basic functionality or not. Also will do some research to see what others are already saying, thanks!

 

[Lancer]

I haven't used Encore first hand, but I've heard the Mac version has issues to the point that at least one company I know of purchased a PC just to author their Blu-rays. But that was with CS3 or CS4 so hopefully things are improved in CS5.


Lethal

So much for Apple Mac's being seen as the professionals choice for video editing... only if you don't want HD on BluRay it seams LOL

BTW I'm still stuck on CS2 Photoshop

 

[toke lahti]

Isn't the big fuss about how the BR license insists that when building BR support into a device, that the device manufacturer has to secure the HD content from disc to screen via Hardware? And Steve Jobs wasn't interested in "Vista-ing" Apple computers and OSX in order to comply?

Also isn't BR itself kinda full of DRM in addition to mandating Hardware DRM?
And doesn't it keep changing? Aren't the first couple of generations of BD players now useless for new titles?

The iTunes DRM is all software, isn't it? Maybe Steve doesn't want to commit the onerous BR DRM to hardware. Didn't he have unhappy experiences with something like this before? After all, BR could change again, rendering millions of set-top boxes obsolete (again) and forcing expensive upgrades for computer manufacturers.

Not at all.
iTunes movies have as much "hardware" DRM as bd:
http://gizmodo.com/5177075/itunes-hd-movies-wont-play-on-older-non+hdcp-monitors
So macs & OsX are already DRM'med & hdcp'ed.

 

[toke lahti]

Mac Pro demand is so low that I'd be very surprised if Apple is going to drop much cash into a ground up redesign. If their main focus going forward is iDevices and not Macs then the decision to never offer a BD drive makes sense. If Apple still cares about the Mac then they should offer a BD option at least on the Pro line.

Pessimistic vision could be that MP will receive still only one upgrade (motherboard change) in 2011 and the last model will have only pin compatible chip updates before it goes the way of xRAID somewhere in 2014.
10.7 could also be the last OsX and come out 2012.
FCS4 and other pro software might get their last upgrade 2011-2013.
Then new iOS-macs start come out 2012 and phase out OsX macs in 2012-2014.

Problem will be, that when Apple is totally closed ecosystem, the only more open os with lots of pro grade software is windows. Maybe Adobe & others will start to deliver their software more to the linux and maybe linux's GUI will be more usable, but I think we need another os like OsX; based on solid open source, but enhanced with excellent proprietary GUI.

 

[toke lahti]

Nice that biggest heat seems to be gone, so you don't need hours to follow this thread
Those who like real-world data & discussion about it, there's this forum:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/high-definition-smackdown-6/

Still about optical storage in general:
I wouldn't say that there is any logics to say that optical storage is somehow dead or even dying.
Apple distributes all its software on optical discs.
Most of other companies do the same.
Most of audio is still sold on an optical disc.
By far, most of video is sold on an optical disc for many years still,
maybe for the whole century.

As long as optical formats are widely used, people want to have them with their computers. I don't belive that even high end home theather enthusiast that like to have dedicated hardware want to get rid of optical drive with their computer. Of course they want both. Optical drive can be external or remote, but it has to be there. Even if you use it only couple of times in a year, nobody want's to get in the trouble in installing software, ripping music, watching a video or retrieve from back-up.

I guess that even macs and even if they degenerate to closed iOS machines will have optical drives for at least 5 years. By then it will be quite tragicomic if "state-of-the-art" macs still have dvd-drives, when bd-drives will retail less than 50 bucks.
Would you have been happy in 2005 if your new mac couldn't use dvd's and it only had cd-rom-drive?
This is about offering badly outdated hardware with premium price.
Would you buy external cd-rw-drive without dvd functionaly today if it had shiny unibody?
Same goes to neglecting eSata, matte screens, usb3, overall expandability, etc...

It looks like the development in computers is going to that windows-pc's are getting all the time more connections, formats & protocols, even when the feature set is already too wide to handle and drivers & os are conflicting in a too complicated system that has millions of different configutarions.
On the other hand, macs really could have all those things that make windows-pc's unstable, since there's really limited amount of models and Apple could keep it that way.
(Well, they don't seem to handle GPU drivers even now, so maybe they just keep that work in absolut bare minimum.)

 

[CWallace]

To tell them THEY burned it correctly. People who do short runs (most Apple pro users) don't replicate, they burn. Just like DVD's and CD's before them.

Well the Mac Pro has had Blu-ray burning via third party options for a good bit of time, as it can use a 5.25" drive. So if the goal is to burn and playback their own content, that's doable right now on a Mac Pro.

And via FW, it should be doable on any current Macintosh computer, desktop or portable.

 

[DMann]

Well the Mac Pro has had Blu-ray burning via third party options for a good bit of time, as it can use a 5.25" drive. So if the goal is to burn and playback their own content, that's doable right now on a Mac Pro.

And via FW, it should be doable on any current Macintosh computer, desktop or portable.

True, I've been burning BD for a while now, and have internal drives in my Mac Pros and iMac as well.

External USB2 BD drives are also available, and play well with FCS and Toast 9,10 on OS X.

 

[Lancer]

True, I've been burning BD for a while now, and have internal drives in my Mac Pros and iMac as well.

External USB2 BD drives are also available, and play well with FCS and Toast 9,10 on OS X.

I went to the site but just wondered how well it would work with my G5, plus the cost, by the time shipping and the exchange rate is considered it's probably around $400 AU. When you can get DVD drives from $50 locally.

 

[cube]

I went to the site but just wondered how well it would work with my G5, plus the cost, by the time shipping and the exchange rate is considered it's probably around $400 AU. When you can get DVD drives from $50 locally.

You can just get any internal blu-ray drive with the right interface and remove the bezel.

 

[Lancer]

You can just get any internal blu-ray drive with the right interface and remove the bezel.

Thanks for the advice, I'll check out local suppliers as my burner is dying slowly. I just don't want to spend too much money which I could put into a newer Intel Mac.

 

[LethalWolfe]

True, I've been burning BD for a while now, and have internal drives in my Mac Pros and iMac as well.

External USB2 BD drives are also available, and play well with FCS and Toast 9,10 on OS X.

Are you playing them back under OSX as well, or just burning them?


Lethal

 

[Lancer]

Are you playing them back under OSX as well, or just burning them?


Lethal

Check the fine print, you need to run XP on you Mac, so I guess that rules out the PowerMac's then?

 

[glashoppah]

RE: Steve's comments - a translation would be "I want the money from those flicks, so I'm going to screw you by not putting Blu-ray in in the hopes you'll choose iTunes downloads instead." Lame, but predictable. As for posters like this:

The future is pretty much going to be mobile devices and tablets so this makes sense. People like to have their entertainment with them at all times not some useless optical disc.

If you want Blu-Ray don't buy a mac.

Snarky fanboyz make me LOL. I can just see you hanging out at the "Genius Bar" with an Apple logo shirt on trying to add in your 2 cents to everyone's conversation with the Apple employees, driving both parties nuts. Don't you have some zits to pop?

G.

 

[toke lahti]

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1967311-post50.html

This is what industry is estimating.
Maybe Apple can change it a bit, but even if this revolutionary atv comes to US still within this year, it will take more than 5 years for it to became globally significant.
Apple becoming major distributer of video (maybe subscription?) in Europe means that they will need several massive data centers in Europe.
And all the ISPs are talking about data caps or charging based on amount of data transferred.
This will also be the model how ISPs will get the tv/video deals from their customers; by offering no extra fee for transferred data from their own services.

iPad might have a small role in video consumption (purple "mobile video" in the chart),
but so far it has too small resolution and wrong aspect ratio.

Still, the killer gadget for bd is laptop: you can watch movies with its screen when there's no bigger available and when there is big screen available, you can connect the laptop to it.

 

[Lancer]

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/1967311-post50.html

This is what industry is estimating.
Maybe Apple can change it a bit, but even if this revolutionary atv comes to US still within this year, it will take more than 5 years for it to became globally significant.
Apple becoming major distributer of video (maybe subscription?) in Europe means that they will need several massive data centers in Europe.
And all the ISPs are talking about data caps or charging based on amount of data transferred.
This will also be the model how ISPs will get the tv/video deals from their customers; by offering no extra fee for transferred data from their own services.

iPad might have a small role in video consumption (purple "mobile video" in the chart),
but so far it has too small resolution and wrong aspect ratio.

Still, the killer gadget for bd is laptop: you can watch movies with its screen when there's no bigger available and when there is big screen available, you can connect the laptop to it.

I thought the data caps were for 3G and future 4G networks not broadband in general? Not that it matters for the rest of the world as most of us have been capped since days one!

But some ISPs offer some services unmetered like mine. I can access iTunes (ironically) and it doesn't go to my monthly data limit, and that just one of the services on their list, I also get access to iView which a video archive for a local TV network.

ITA that laptop (or MacBook ) would be great, mind you it won't be long before you can get portable DVD players which will probably do that and have a built in projector before long. Sit it on the coffee table facing a blank wall and instant cinema you can carry in your backpack!

 

[DMann]

I went to the site but just wondered how well it would work with my G5, plus the cost, by the time shipping and the exchange rate is considered it's probably around $400 AU. When you can get DVD drives from $50 locally.

Any less expensive BD internal read/write drive can be installed - as cube suggested, simply remove the bezel.

Are you playing them back under OSX as well, or just burning them?


Lethal

I play them back using the home theater player - much larger screen.

If I ever need to playback on the Mac, I'll boot into XP - haven't needed to yet.

 

[archipellago]

I thought the data caps were for 3G and future 4G networks not broadband in general? Not that it matters for the rest of the world as most of us have been capped since days one!

But some ISPs offer some services unmetered like mine. I can access iTunes (ironically) and it doesn't go to my monthly data limit, and that just one of the services on their list, I also get access to iView which a video archive for a local TV network.

ITA that laptop (or MacBook ) would be great, mind you it won't be long before you can get portable DVD players which will probably do that and have a built in projector before long. Sit it on the coffee table facing a blank wall and instant cinema you can carry in your backpack!

BT are the 2nd largest ISP in the UK and they have a max 40gb cap (recently introduced) on all their packages.

Sky are capped too and talktalk who are now the biggest ISP have a 40gb cap on their essentials/popular product and an unlimited (with FUP) on the plus package.

---

before any thouights of streaming replacing optical media then massive investment is needed in the broadband infrastructure... More and more ISP's are going towards caps and allowances.

the ISP's have even been to the people causing the strain on the networks (BBC iPlayer) to ask for money because of the increased useage.

Interesting to see if the ISP's do similar with Apple, if Apple launches some kind of cloud based service..

 

[Lancer]

BT are the 2nd largest ISP in the UK and they have a max 40gb cap (recently introduced) on all their packages.

Sky are capped too and talktalk who are now the biggest ISP have a 40gb cap on their essentials/popular product and an unlimited (with FUP) on the plus package.

---

before any thoughts of streaming replacing optical media then massive investment is needed in the broadband infrastructure... More and more ISP's are going towards caps and allowances.

the ISP's have even been to the people causing the strain on the networks (BBC iPlayer) to ask for money because of the increased usage.

Interesting to see if the ISP's do similar with Apple, if Apple launches some kind of cloud based service..

Good thing I'm on a 60Gb plan then, which has no upload meter and some services I can used unmetered. Also Optus (one of the biggest ISPs in AU) have just release a 120Gb plan here and they are not alone.

 

[archipellago]

Good thing I'm on a 60Gb plan then, which has no upload meter and some services I can used unmetered. Also Optus (one of the biggest ISPs in AU) have just release a 120Gb plan here and they are not alone.

as you know, the Aussies are a much more advanced nation nowadays than us lot.

 

[Lancer]

as you know, the Aussies are a much more advanced nation nowadays than us lot.

Yeah it's weird, we've been hampered for years with low quoter's and high prices and now it's flipped, when compared to the US.

Also why is it in the US you're stuck using AT&T for the iPhone but we can use any carrier we like here in AU?

Now if only Apple wouldn't charge a premium (over the exchange rate) for it's products when they go on sale here.

 

[toke lahti]

ITA that laptop (or MacBook ) would be great, mind you it won't be long before you can get portable DVD players which will probably do that and have a built in projector before long. Sit it on the coffee table facing a blank wall and instant cinema you can carry in your backpack!

Only problem with portable projectors would be that usually you can't control the lighting, so for the picture quality, the darkest black you can see, is the white wall you are projecting.
Laptop lcd's on the other hand are black (when off) and you get much better light and contrast levels compared to projecting in a non dimmed place.

Although I could accept my laptop having a projector, I still don't want to carry two things (portable bd & laptop) with me.

 

[toke lahti]

More and more ISP's are going towards caps and allowances.

This isn't surprising, since carrying bits do really cost.
If ISP has to pay 10 cent per gigabyte, it really doesn't matter before people are starting to watch streamed or downloaded hd-video.
10Mbit/s video stream to 2 receivers 3 hours a day makes 800GB/month.
That would then cost to ISP 80 bucks a month.

Without streaming households usually don't transfer many gigabytes per month.

Maybe some day ISP's start co-operating on multicasting...

 

[KnightWRX]

If ISP has to pay 10 cent per gigabyte,

That's a big if considering ISPs don't pay per data transmitted but based on link bandwidth.

And yes, I did work at a ISP before you ask how I could possibly know this.