Steve Jobs to Kick Off WWDC with Preview of Mac OS X "Tiger"

[pkkrusty]

the next OS...

Is it just me or are OS 'upgrades' these days just minor tweaks to a tired concept? The 2D interface has run it's course, as far as I'm concerned. You want to see productivity rise? Design a truly 3D OS. Of course you'd need new monitors or goggles or whatever, but the switch-over could be a gradual thing like OS X was. Continue to update OS X, but make a cut-off date for transition to the new OS.

I'm sure the first version of a 3D OS would suck, but as more developers wrote programs and more years were spent thinking in a 3D environment, the intuitive design features would far outstrip the capabilities of 2D OSs.

Hehe, I can imagine the 3D OS 10 years from now. It's a 3D virtual office with paper strewn everywhere and file cabinets against the wall. And a virtual computer at a desk. Hah.

 

[svenas1]

wow thats awesome....that has a lot of potential....email that to apple as a suggestion

Use Pic2Icon and command J in the finder. That works quite nicely - although the slider is actually a nice touch, as are the tabs.

I also thought about showing the path in the finder window, as in itunes.

 

[Kelson]

Umm...no....

No, actually, I really don't care about frequent HW updates. I am quite happy with my 1ghz TiBook.

I don't want to go shell out another 2500$, to have the same functionality that I have right now, just a bit faster.

I want to shell out 129$, get a speed bump, and get new functionality. I wish that Apple would accelerate their new releases to one every 6 months in fact.

Also, it absolutely does not feel like Panther just came out, it feels like it has been a whole year, even tho it's only been 6-7 months.

If you don't like to upgrade every year, Apple does provide sufficient support for old OS versions so you can just do every other one. If you skip Panther and just go straight to Tiger, you will get all of the features of both for 129$.

If you want to whine about 129$ being oh so much money, here are a couple of suggestions:

1. Drink *1* less beer per week. (Assuming cheap swill beer)
2. Instead of a latte every morning, drink regular coffee 1 day a week.
3. Empty any change in your pockets into a jar each night.
4. Take your lunch to work one day per month.
5. Get a paper route.

Oh, and if you are gonna whine about the price of iLife, at 49$, it's the same as a bar tab for one night of drinking. Plus, keeping the latest version of iLife is much less important to me. The only iApps that I find to be of any use are iPhoto and iTunes, one of which is free anyway, and the other is nothing more than a fancy folder IMHO. You may find them to be of use, but if the current versions support what you need, than there is no motivation to upgrade, it's not like an OS upgrade. If you do need the new functionality, then you aren't being forced to upgrade, but you are choosing to for a value add over your current setup.

Maybe I'm more willing to upgrade because I spend so much time living on my Mac. I use the same TiBook for work and home. I spend 60-80 hrs per week on it. Any updates are well worth it to me if they improve my workflow or ease of use at all.

- Kelson

Hey, if they made the OS right the first time, they wouldn't need that frequent of an update

People want frequent hardware updates, people don't want frequent OS updates... IMHO. They need to spend more R&D time between OS updates and less on adding a few things and then charging more for them.

 

[Russellosbor]

Darwine

WINE = Wine Is Not an Emulator.

WINE is a reverse engineered set of MFC (MS Foundation classes) Libs, the Carbon/Cocoa of the Windows world. It basically is a bunch of libs that mimick the standard Windows programming interface on non Windows OS's, e.g., Linux, so that Windows apps will run under it without being ported. However it does NOT emulate a PC or Windows. Windows apps need lots of MS developed Libs to work, WINE provides them under Linux.

One slight drawback is that as the apps don't need to be recompiled, they are compiled for x86 so unless Tiger is also available for PC's WINE on OS X ain't going to happen.

This is half true half not. WINE is coming to the Mac eventually. There is a project called Darwine who is dedicated to porting it. http://darwine.opendarwin.org// And if anyone with programing skills should help them out. It's basically two guys doing the work. The fact that X86 does have to be emulated won't let it run AS fast as native code but the lack of need to emulate all the Windows libs will improve speed immensely for running windows apps on a Mac. If these ever get's the kinks worked out of it. It will be amazing alternative for VPC.

 

[sworthy]

Wow, am I the onle one who feels like Panther just came out last month or something?

That's exactly what I'm feeling

 

[sethypoo]

Holy moly, great balls of fire, already!?!?!!



I say: bring it on! Can't wait for June 28th!

 

[sethypoo]

I wish that Apple would accelerate their new releases to one every 6 months in fact.

(cough) For starters, this is an aweful idea. Developers would croak at the prospect of having to revamp their software every 6 months, let alone the anguish the average computer user would have.

Think about it! I have professors who are 20-year Mac users that had a hard enough time jumping from OS 10.1 to OS 10.3. An update ever 6 months would cause a lot of software compatability issues too. A friend of mine works as a customer service representative for Apple, handling a lot of their software problem calls. He said that their call volume skyrockets just after an OS is released, since a lot of home users have compatability issues with new OS releases. (cough)

 

[sjk]

I actually like the idea of yearly OS updates.

Me, too. But I'm not looking forward to forums soon becoming polluted with whining about price and other yearly-recycled, update-related topics.

Btw, nice white tiger image.

 

[coolsoldier]

I think the biggest problem with frequent updates/backwards compatibility on macs is our dependence on shareware and freeware software that is developed by one or two individuals -- not enough resources to support older systems.

Most commercial software seems to keep it's backwards compatibility. I think shareware developers will often build only for the latest OSes even when they don't need to because they can't effectively support systems they don't use. This is reasonable, but it causes problems because the Mac community (and I think particularly the "power-users" who frequent this site) depends on a lot of shareware apps and utilities.

 

[Elan0204]

Where do you do that ? Is there an option in OS X or is there a form on some webpage ?

thx, tk.

Here you go:

Apple Mac OS X Feedback

I suggest everyone with ideas send them to Apple. Based on previous actions, I'd say it's safe to assume that Apple really does take feedback seriously.

 

[applemacdude]

I hope they implement some of the technology Sun is previewing with the "Looking Glass" TEchnology

 

[Haberdasher]

A befs would be great, but does anyone remember the boot times? Nothing is more impressive than booting up inside of 30 seconds.

I have been surprised in the last week...my Panther computer boots in about 15.

 

[macjohnmcc]

I have not heard about this problem before. It is a wide spread issue?

I find this to be true mostly on my PB 12". Never on my PMG4

 

[cnladd]

Cocoa is an extension of the OpenStep reference platform API developed by NeXT with Sun (I don'y know if Sun did anything except maybe help fund it), With OS X being at its core an extension and improvment of OPENSTEP (NeXT's implimentation of OpenStep) with things added like Carbon etc to make it more mac like and compatible. But Apple killed OpenStep when they created cocoa, so it will be a suprise, all be it a nice one, if they bring it back. GNUStep is promising however if they can keep up.

Of all the choices, The reintroduction of a full cocoa compatible OpenStep api seems to be the best option, for os x users at least, but if it will ever see the light of day is questionable.

NeXT started out with the NeXTSTEP operating system on their own (Motorola-based) platform. NeXTSTEP was a BSD-based OS with it's own graphical user interface and an innovative object-oriented development framework.

As the NeXTSTEP hardware platform became more untenable, primarily due to the successes of Sun (in the workstation market) and Windows, NeXT decided to open up the framework and make their operating system and framework cross-platform. This resulted in OPENSTEP. The OPENSTEP operating system was available for the x86 architecture (386, if I recall correctly), but the framework itself (API, developer tools and user interface) were also available for SunOS, Windows, and possibly a few other platforms.

Apple bought NeXT, including OPENSTEP--the OS and the framework. The OS was transformed into Darwin (and over time was developed into more of a FreeBSD-like operating system than the straight BSD-derived NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP, though it still retains many "NeXT-isms") and the framework was transformed into what we now know as Cocoa.

Suffice it to say, Apple has existing (albiet older) code that allows for OPENSTEP applications on at least Sun and on Windows (unsure of the version, however). IIRC, some of this codebase is what was used to develop Apple's WebObjects for both Solaris and Windows, which points to the possibility that the OPENSTEP code has been kept somewhat up-to-date. Of course, there are still the issues of the application binaries themselves, and the need for separately-installed frameworks for the alternative systems, which is what helped kill off OPENSTEP adoption in the marketplace.

It's been many, many years since I developed for and administered NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP systems, so some of the facts may be a little shaky. Feel free to correct me where necessary. ;-)

 

[fatbarstard]

Have you a tiger in your tank??

Tiger... yawn....

Another 'major upgrade'.... yawn...

it will run faster, be more stable and have some way cool features.... yawn...

Be available just before Christmas shopping season starts I would imagine.... yawn...

Be a great present wouldn't it? Look what I bought you for Christmas darling... an upgrade to Max OS X for my computer!! Wedding anniversary present (frying pan) gets hurled at software box carrier.....

yawn....

 

[ZildjianKX]

No, actually, I really don't care about frequent HW updates. I am quite happy with my 1ghz TiBook.

I don't want to go shell out another 2500$, to have the same functionality that I have right now, just a bit faster.

I want to shell out 129$, get a speed bump, and get new functionality. I wish that Apple would accelerate their new releases to one every 6 months in fact.

Also, it absolutely does not feel like Panther just came out, it feels like it has been a whole year, even tho it's only been 6-7 months.

If you don't like to upgrade every year, Apple does provide sufficient support for old OS versions so you can just do every other one. If you skip Panther and just go straight to Tiger, you will get all of the features of both for 129$.

If you want to whine about 129$ being oh so much money, here are a couple of suggestions:

1. Drink *1* less beer per week. (Assuming cheap swill beer)
2. Instead of a latte every morning, drink regular coffee 1 day a week.
3. Empty any change in your pockets into a jar each night.
4. Take your lunch to work one day per month.
5. Get a paper route.

Oh, and if you are gonna whine about the price of iLife, at 49$, it's the same as a bar tab for one night of drinking. Plus, keeping the latest version of iLife is much less important to me. The only iApps that I find to be of any use are iPhoto and iTunes, one of which is free anyway, and the other is nothing more than a fancy folder IMHO. You may find them to be of use, but if the current versions support what you need, than there is no motivation to upgrade, it's not like an OS upgrade. If you do need the new functionality, then you aren't being forced to upgrade, but you are choosing to for a value add over your current setup.

Maybe I'm more willing to upgrade because I spend so much time living on my Mac. I use the same TiBook for work and home. I spend 60-80 hrs per week on it. Any updates are well worth it to me if they improve my workflow or ease of use at all.

- Kelson

Well, you enjoy preferring frequent OS updates over hardware updates... I personally want the next mac I buy 2-3 years from now to be as fast as possible, not Apple stretching out their hardware lines as long as possible.

I never said I don't like to upgrade my OS each year, it only seems that Apple is nickling and diming people with so frequent of "paid" OS updates almost on an annual basis. I love new features, but I just got done paying for new features for Panther.

Perhaps you need to get a paper route so you can get off your mac a little bit. more.. if you start saving now you can get a new PB in a few years (especially if you cut back on beer and coffee).

 

[ZildjianKX]

Anyone else find it ironic exactly one year after WWDC 2003 Apple will showcase the next Mac OS, and there is a chance that they'll show the next upgrade to the G5s? Well, hopefully the G5 upgrades will come before then...

 

[windowsblowsass]

Commander, you have received a field promotion to the rank of CaptainObvious.

no ts Mr. Obvious like on bob & tom

 

[sjk]

I'm hoping for a metadata "BeOS-like" finder. Something that would simply put WinFS to shame.

I've read WinFS is one of the features that's been cut from the first Longhorn release, which should give Apple plenty of time and opportunity to come up with some interesting. Maybe something beyond case-sensitive filesystems with HFS Plus Volume Format will be revealed this year.

 

[cnladd]

I doubt Mac OS would become true 64-but until Mac OS 11. If so, every application will have to be available in two flavours, 32bit and 64bit.

Completely untrue.

Take a look at Solaris. A very large majority of its applications are 32-bit. This is an operating system and hardware platform that has been 64-bit for many, many years. The only point where this became a problem was in the more recent releases of Solaris, and only with kernel modules when they stopped offering a 32-bit kernel. And yes, 32-bit applications run just fine on the 64-bit kernel atop the 64-bit filesystem using the 64-bit virtual memory subsystem.

32-bit binary compatibility with 64-bit operating systems is not just a possibility, it's been done for a very long time now--and Solaris isn't the only example, just one of the most consistent and well-known.

If apple were to go true 64 bit anytime soon it would probably only be for Mac OS X Server and only their server apps (and maybe pro apps) would have 64 bit versions.

I fully expect the next version of the OS to have a 64-bit core. Maybe not every individual application--it would be completely absurd to convert many applications to 64-bit, and in fact would make many of the applications run slower. At the very least, I'm expecting a 64-bit kernel to be available, along with a better VM subsystem and filesystem. If possible, I think we may also soon see 64-bit-only versions of some of their pro applications that require this core.

They could easily go the route that Solaris had in the past: if the application installer detects a 32-bit system, install the 32-bit kernel. If it detects a 64-bit processor, install the 64-bit kernel. The underlying applications don't have to change.

Finally, the 64-bit editions of Windows are a poor example of how to support 64-bit core hardware. The reason for this is because of the Itanium's architecture. Yes, a 32-bit Windows would run on an Itanium, but the Itanium emulates the IA32 instruction set, which forces the OS to run slower. The only way that Microsoft could get around that was to develop specifically for the Itanium--hence, a separate 64-bit-only version of Windows. Keep in mind, though, that 32-bit applications could still run (using the Itanium's IA32 emulation.)

This wouldn't be the case on a 64-bit Mac OS X, because (as we saw with the G5) the 32-bit instructions are fully binary-compatible with the 64-bit processors. This was the key success factor for Solaris' famed binary compatibility.

Sorry for the long post here. I just get tired of seeing/hearing all the FUD about how a 64-bit OS spells doom, death and destruction for the folks with older hardware (which includes me, by the way, on my trusty B&W G3.)

 

[Bulgroz]

um... welcome to 1992?

No. Welcome 1984. Macintalk was on the Mac since the beginning (or at least, I remember using it in 1989)

 

[sjk]

Well, I'm hoping for the befs-like filesystem.. Smart folders in the finder, own definable meta-data. And I hope they integrate it with the other applications.

What would be the point of implementing it without more creative application integration?

[Edit: Or, as was put so well:

When thinking about this, don't just imagine being able to set metadata and perform quick, arbitrary filesystem searches. That's not where the power of this lies. Instead, imagine the applications we'll start to see when every single developer can be guaranteed that their users have a built-in database system.

]

Besides "metadata-driven" enhancements, something I'd like is a new underlying implementation for keyboard shortcuts, as discussed in John Gruber's Losers, Weepers article.

 

[macridah]

raaaar .... I'll be at the wwdc. This will be my first. I got the deal that comes with an ADC membership. I'll use the one time discount on the new G5's w/tiger

 

[mac15]

Stuff the Tiger features, another stevenote with the quote likes 'Boom' 'whatever you wanna do here'.... 'Boom'

 

[Wonder Boy]

How long until Tiger Woods sues Apple (like Spike Lee sued "Spike TV")?

nah, tiger woods is too classy for that...