Steve Jobs' Wall Street Journal Visit Reportedly Included Arguments Against Flash

[Eidorian]

ROFL! We have Adobe fans now? Gimme a break . . .

I do loathe Flash. I just loathe the lack of access to the video hardware of my computers due to the software even more.

I'm already working on my escape from iTunes for playback. Linux is up next as well. Much more interesting than just sticking around waiting for Apple.

 

[*LTD*]

Hypocrisy says what?

Oh come on, Adobe's a ****** company. If Apple wants to make life difficult for them you won't see me shed a tear. Adobe's idea of innovation is a price hike for a more bloated version of Creative Suite. Screw 'em.

Flash is DEAD. Why? Apple and Google said so. And even stupid Microsoft is turning their back on it. That should be enough to convince anyone. The only way Adobe can come out of this unscathed is by making tools for HTML5. The writing is on the wall.

If your video doesn't play on Apple devices you're playing the wrong game.

 

[Speedy2]

Boot your 27 inch iMac into Windows 7 and play the same segment. No heat, no fans, no problem. Everybody is so willing to drink the kool aid and repeat Jobs' mantra without ever asking whether there might be a problem with OS X or Safari.

Again: Adobe writes the plugin for Safari. If it crashes and wastes CPU cycles, what could Apple do about it? Other plugins seem to work ok. Adobe are just lazy to really adapt the plugin to Mac OS X with the result that you and many other people blame the one who sold you the computer instead of the actual programmer. And since it's Apple's business model to sell solutions (hardware + software) they have a right to be pissed since they have to rely on Adobe. If Flash were an open standard, Apple could write their own plugin and do it right.

 

[Terminal.app]

I do loathe Flash. I just loathe the lack of access to the video hardware of my computers due to the software even more.

I'm already working on my escape from iTunes for playback. Linux is up next as well. Much more interesting than just sticking around waiting for Apple.

Linux has software?

No really, I've tried getting through a month of "Linux-only computing" and could not do it. In the end, OS X still wins purely due to all the awesome software that I use all the time, and that I couldn't bear to part with.

I still use Fedora on my HP subnotebook, merely because running Windows on an Athlon Neo isn't fun. I wish you the best of luck waiting for Apple, it's got to be at least somewhat more rewarding than waiting for Linux.

 

[mikes70mustang]

I hope Apple kills flash.

I hope flash mushroom slaps Jobs in the face

 

[Speedy2]

Ding! This is the right answer. Fanboys will buy the iPad without question. Once mainstream finds out no Hulu, no Facebook games its game over for the iPad. It will be a small niche product like the AppleTV or MBa.

So Hulu couldn't simply show the videos in some other format like YouTube does it? Or Facebook game developers will never realise the huge market potential of iPod/iPhone/iPad games and will never offer adequate versions for these devices?

You talk as if there wasn't a crazy rush to make everthing work on iPhones.

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

Wouldn't that mean she isn't the target audience? Wouldn't the lack of Flash mean that Apple isn't targeting those with a strong need for Flash content?

She doesn't create content. Her computer usage is checking email, browsing facebook and keeping in touch with friends, looking at photos in iPhoto, playing farmville and other facebook games, and general web surfing.

Is this not the target audience? If not, please tell me what is the target audience.

 

[Eidorian]

Linux has software?

No really, I've tried getting through a month of "Linux-only computing" and could not do it. In the end, OS X still wins purely due to all the awesome software that I use all the time, and that I couldn't bear to part with.

I still use Fedora on my HP subnotebook, merely because running Windows on an Athlon Neo isn't fun. I wish you the best of luck waiting for Apple, it's got to be at least somewhat more rewarding than waiting for Linux.

I've been moving away from being Mac only for 3 years.

iTunes is literally the last stranglehold Apple has on me. It's easy to migrate over from iTunes on Windows to OS X but getting off is another story.

My point is that even Linux developments are more interesting than 10.6 right now. Apple for me is a very boring company now. I was much more content back in the Tiger days.

 

[JackAxe]

The only way I can watch Hulu fullscreen on my 24" iMac (2.16ghz C2D) is to use OS X's built in screen magnification to zoom into the little 480p window until it fills the screen. If I try to scale it with the Flash player itself I get unwatchable stutter.

The crazy part is the video looks to be about the same quality. (Flash blown up is a bit jaggier …screen zoom is a bit "softer") Try it yourself and look at the CPU difference.

Try FP 10.1 beta 2, it's done wonders for my Macs, including my G4 DP 1.25 running Tiger.

I'm running a 17" MBPro 2.3 Ghz C2D. It has an ATI x1600, which isn't supported via the GPU just yet in Flash. Anyways, this video running fullscreen(1680x1050) -- with a second display attached (1600x900), set to 720p in Safari 4.04 under 10.6.2, only uses about 75% CPU. That's better than QT's performance on my more powerful G5 DP 2.5(it died) prior to Apple offloading HD video to the GPU.

At 480p, it uses about 35% cpu fullscreen.

HTML 5 video under Tiger is almost unplayable just for reference.

 

[*LTD*]

Ding! This is the right answer. Fanboys will buy the iPad without question. Once mainstream finds out no Hulu, no Facebook games its game over for the iPad. It will be a small niche product like the AppleTV or MBa.

iPad phenomenon = iPod phenomenon. Everyone and their dog will have one.

 

[JackAxe]

Oh come on, Adobe's a ****** company. If Apple wants to make life difficult for them you won't see me shed a tear. Adobe's idea of innovation is a price hike for a more bloated version of Creative Suite. Screw 'em.

Flash is DEAD. Why? Apple and Google said so. And even stupid Microsoft is turning their back on it. That should be enough to convince anyone. The only way Adobe can come out of this unscathed is by making tools for HTML5. The writing is on the wall.

If your video doesn't play on Apple devices you're playing the wrong game.

LOL, hypocrite. Gimme a break...

 

[Speedy2]

SWF is a de facto standard, like DOC and PDF.

(What is it with MR and nerdy hairsplitters...?)

Actually, DOCX (aka OOXML, the "new" DOC) and PDF are both ISO standards. Everyone can write software for it. Can everyone write software for SWF? no.

Sorry you lose.

 

[zweigand]

Try FP 10.1 beta 2, it's done wonders for my Macs, including my G4 DP 1.25 running Tiger.

I'm running a 17" MBPro 2.3 Ghz C2D. It has an ATI x1600, which isn't supported via the GPU just yet in Flash. Anyways, this video running fullscreen(1680x1050) -- with a second display attached (1600x900), set to 720p in Safari 4.04 under 10.6.2, only uses about 75% CPU. That's better than QT's performance on my more powerful G5 DP 2.5(it died) prior to Apple offloading HD video to the GPU.

At 480p, it uses about 35% cpu fullscreen.

HTML 5 video under Tiger is almost unplayable just for reference.

I'm running the latest Flash beta. It's just the extra pixels that bog it down. I can play hulu videos in the pop-out window and slowly increase the size. Once I get over ~1600x950 I start to notice the stutter. My 24" iMac has a monitor res of 1920x1200 so unless they do something else to Flash video ..fullscreen is out.

I can watch 1080p h.264 content just fine though

 

[Speedy2]

YOU GUYS SHOULD GO AND READ ABOUT THIS ARTICLE ON GIZMODO...http://gizmodo.com/5475005/steve-jobs-flash-video-would-make-the-ipad-battery-life-15-hours

You'll see what THE REAL WORLD

You call Gizmodo, this nerd hub, the real world of all places? Fail.

Btw, I just love how they repeat Adobe's same old excuses:
"Of course, that hardware acceleration isn't currently possible on Macs, because Adobe doesn't have access to the appropriate APIs."

Yeah right. Only that Flash isn't hardware accelerated on Windows either (you need beta 10.1 for that) and it runs much better there. It has always run better on Windows, because Adobe are too lazy. Appropriate APIs my a**.

 

[*LTD*]

You call Gizmodo, this nerd hub, the real world of all places? Fail.

Btw, I just love how they repeat Adobe's same old excuses:
"Of course, that hardware acceleration isn't currently possible on Macs, because Adobe doesn't have access to the appropriate APIs."

Yeah right. Only that Flash isn't hardware accelerated on Windows either (you need beta 10.1 for that) and it runs much better there. It has always run better on Windows, because Adobe are too lazy. Appropriate APIs my a**.

Gizmodo, the REAL WORLD?

ROFL

99% of tech site forum goers have no clue what goes on in the "the real world." These are the same people that think Apple will fail without a headless Mac, and that hackintosh users constitute a major movement. And here I thought geeks were supposed to be smart. LOL

 

[QuixoticFable]

Yes it can, and will. You will see in the 12 months website having html5 and flash sites. Once all browsers support html5, they will turn off their flash sites.

This is like selling a car with no steering wheel. And when everyone calls you stupid for not including a steering wheel you just lean back, smile, and say, "Don't worry. When the technology catches up in a couple of years, you won't even need a steering wheel."

In 12 months, or whenever flash becomes irrelevant, you'd have a point, but releasing a device that doesn't support what is one of the most commonly used applications on the internet is silly. "Full web experience" my [censored].

 

[Eidorian]

Yeah right. Only that Flash isn't hardware accelerated on Windows either (you need beta 10.1 for that) and it runs much better there. It has always run better on Windows, because Adobe are too lazy. Appropriate APIs my a**.

Can you tell me more about video hardware accelerated playback of video under OS X?

 

[PeterQVenkman]

So Hulu couldn't simply show the videos in some other format like YouTube does it?

No, they can't. The simple answer, DRM. There is no way Hollywood is going to let people right click and save an episode of "30 Rock".

Unless h264 sees significant changes, it ain't happening.

Also, integrated advertising. Yes, we all hate ads. But you won't get free content without it.

 

[Speedy2]

yes, I made that exact point a while back. It's the whole trojan horse thing that was pulled with mp3. Once that tech took off, the lawsuits over licensing started. Check MPEG LA's press releases. Almost all of them are suing people/companies over licensing.

There are tons of free, open source MP3 players AND encoders. Where was the Trojan horse again?

 

[whatever]

Hahahahahahahaha!

I can imagine old Steve foaming on his mouth talking non-sense and general ******** while at the same time, in the real world, things like this are happening:

FLASH ON NEXUS ONE! --- > http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781

Steve go retire for the sake of all of us please!




EDIT:

By the way, did Steve or any one of you wonder, why Flash crashes Safari on the Mac and it never crashes Firefox!?!?!

LOL!

Perhaps Steve should be fixing Safari instead of talking poo...

Firefox is the most annoying piece of software ever!

Besides the fact that every time I go to you it I'm prompted to do yet another upgrade, it's just sucks on the Mac. I don't understand why anyone would ever use Firefox on a Mac.

Thank God Google has plotting to have Chrome replace it.

 

[Speedy2]

No, they can't. The simple answer, DRM. There is no way Hollywood is going to let people right click and save an episode of "30 Rock".

Unless h264 sees significant changes, it ain't happening.

What changes are you talking about?

Don't you think you could already DRM-protect a H.264 video? You might wanna have a look at Apple's video store.

 

[zweigand]

No, they can't. The simple answer, DRM. There is no way Hollywood is going to let people right click and save an episode of "30 Rock".

Unless h264 sees significant changes, it ain't happening.

Also, integrated advertising. Yes, we all hate ads. But you won't get free content without it.

Amazon VOD streams h.264 directly to my Roku …hulu could do the exact same thing with the iPad. Can't right-click and save if an iPad app doesn't specifically allow it.

 

[whatever]

This is like selling a car with no steering wheel. And when everyone calls you stupid for not including a steering wheel you just lean back, smile, and say, "Don't worry. When the technology catches up in a couple of years, you won't even need a steering wheel."

In 12 months, or whenever flash becomes irrelevant, you'd have a point, but releasing a device that doesn't support what is one of the most commonly used applications on the internet is silly. "Full web experience" my [censored].

Apple already proved that Flash is irrelevant with the iPhone. If Flash was relevant then people would not have bought millions of iPhones and Apple would have scrambled to support it. But the average user just doesn't care and some users are actually happy not to have it.

 

[Shin3r]

I am intrigued with all the comments about Mac Fanboys in the comments made. As I look over the past 15 pages, there are far more negative comments than positive.

So my question is: if so many of you hate Apple products and the iPad, and the lack of flash, and more, why are you here and why do you continue to buy Apple products? If they are so lacking in the basic essentials as you state, why is it you are not buying the competing products?

I don't care whether Apple products lack flash or the many other things complain about, so you should buy the competitors to iPhone, Touch, iPad, etc.

That'll teach them!

Because they want something to complain about. It is true that if Flash is so important, then no one will buy the iPad. In which case, either Apple will put it on or they will stop making the iPad. I'm not arguing for or against Flash. I will buy the iPad because it suits me, not because I am a fanboy and all these people that feel the need to belittle my purchasing decisions because it's not what they want can suck it. Opinions are great and all but when people start putting others down, they become bullies. It's childish.

 

[JackAxe]

I'm running the latest Flash beta. It's just the extra pixels that bog it down. I can play hulu videos in the pop-out window and slowly increase the size. Once I get over ~1600x950 I start to notice the stutter. My 24" iMac has a monitor res of 1920x1200 so unless they do something else to Flash video ..fullscreen is out.

I can watch 1080p h.264 content just fine though

I own a HD 30". I bought it with my G5 in 2005 from the Apple Developer store. Anyways, It's at my friends office while I finish up an on going project with his .Net guys. I have had no problems running Flash fullscreen on it, even with Flash Player 10, which 10.1 is noticeably better. I haven't tried a YouTube 1080p video on it that I can recall from , but I will tomorrow when I head back down there to work to see if it's smooth.

ANyways, 10.1 is worth the download, especially on the Mac, even if your GPU isn't on their supported list.

For reference, Flash has had support for H.264 since 2008.