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Steve Jobs' Wall Street Journal Visit Reportedly Included Arguments Against Flash

DVD Plaza said:
Yes Apple USED to be the one pushing new technologies, but not anymore...

First to push USB, yet not using USB3.
First to push DVD, yet only person on the planet not using Blu-ray.
First access to some CPUs, yet last to still sell Core 2 Duo (at full premium price)!
First with a nextgen GUI, yet 10 years later it's now looking dated.
Blah blah blah.... Last to implement SD card slots, not yet using SATA3, heck what about built in 3G on MacBooks like we've had with ThinkPads for years?!

You're behind the times Jobs :(
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In before Light Peak.
 
AndyR said:
Both my wife, mom, auntie and a few other freinds who know I'm an :apple: nut really loved the iPad when it was on the news, but as soon as they found out it couldn't play Farmville or other games like it they were not interested and called it a piece of crap.
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This is the same thing my family and friends are saying... they had no problem not using Flash on the iPhone because its such a small device and only used for quick task.

But not having Flash on the iPad which is supposed to be the Best internet experience was a major FAIL for Apple.. All those millions of Facebook members who use apps like Farmville or PaintBall paradise will NOT get this device.. and sadly that's gonna cause the iPad to fail.

I wouldn't even be able to watch videos on Engadget, Gizmodo, or even this site if I were to get an iPad.. which is a deal breaker for me.. so iPad = NoThanks! ... get Flash.
 
Am I the only one who has no problems with Flash crashing my machine? I can't remember the last time my browser crashed on me, much less due to Flash. Sure I get annoyed at those dumb websites that use a ton of Flash but that's more a development issue than a Flash issue.
 
MMX said:
Some examples maybe, because I'm having hard time believing it.
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Nick Jr, playhouse disney websites, farmville, mafia wars, the list goes on

nobody cares about flash ads, its the games people want.
 
AndyR said:
Both my wife, mom, auntie and a few other freinds who know I'm an :apple: nut really loved the iPad when it was on the news, but as soon as they found out it couldn't play Farmville or other games like it they were not interested and called it a piece of crap.
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You're right, they will miss out on some of this. But, if the iPad becomes big enough, whoever makes Farmville will have incentive to write a native app for it, or someone else will do it or clone it (and any other Flash game). Apple would much prefer this because they get 30% of the revenues, whereas with web-based Flash games they get zero.
 
MacRumors said:


"We don't spend a lot of energy on old technology."
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Yeah, you tell 'em...

...you know, about the "state-of-the-art" iPhone 3GS... with VIDEO... and an amazingly, great, great, beautiful, great, stunning, great, beautiful 3 megapixel camera... not to mention the iPhone's amazing, beautiful, great, wonderful cutting-edge Voice-Control technology, the envy of the mobile handset world... oh, and did I mention a brand new concept we like to call "Cut, Copy, Paste"? Truly amazing, great, beautiful, great and innovative...

...lame!
 
I think it's hilarious and kind of fitting that Macromedia made Flash for PPC a huge steaming pile of **** (far worse than it is now), and now Apple has the market power for payback. Immature for a CEO of a multibillion dollar company? Yes. Interesting to watch? Yes.
 
The nice thing about Flash is only one company makes the plugin - Adobe.

If HTML5 takes off, every browser will have to support it, meaning every site developer (including the WSJ) will have to support & test:
- The Safari implementation of HTML5
- The IE implementation of HTML5
- The Firefox implementation of HTML5
...Chrome, Opera etc..etc..etc..

In theory, there should be no difference. In reality, it never, ever works like that.

And are there any quality integrated development tools (like Flash) for HTML5 out there now?

I think the RDF is strong in this one. :(
 
coleridge78 said:
You don't seem to know (or acknowledge) the difference between H.264 and html5. And you are engaging in the smokescreen that Flash video is a-ok because, years from now, H.264 *might* have licensing fees.
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MPEG LA, the license holder, said the free licensing ends 2016. Their words, not mine. They can change their minds, but will they really? Remember when the gif format and mp3 formats caused all those lawsuits a while back? That only happened once those formats became popular.

News Flash (pun intended): creating Flash means Adobe lock-in and Adobe fees. Take your pick, pay for something that's inefficient and totally closed and proprietary, or pay for something that's much more efficient and "open" (though not "free").
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I'll give you that it's inefficient (on the mac, on noes!), but what fees? You mean buying software to run on a streaming video server? Or buying Flash CS4? You might as well claim that adobe charges fees when it asks users to buy photoshop. Even then, you don't have to buy the software for your server, you can host with a variety of content delivery networks- but they only charge for bandwidth- not licensing flash. And they charge bandwidth for everything, be in windows media, quicktime, or flash video.

And flash is an open format. There are open source alternatives to flash, flash video, and flex:

http://osflash.org/flv

Also, Flash opened it's format in October of 1998. Remember when Adobe made a Flash alternative program before they bought Macromedia?
 
Fuchal said:
Backlit displays, not backlit LEDs.
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Yeah, I think the writer meant CCFL-lit LCDs, not LEDs.

As for the person who thought Jobs was a douche for telling people what's in their best interest, that's called BEING A SALESMAN. Jobs is a tech expert, just like a tax accountant would be a financial expert. Was the heating & air guy a douche because he told me about the systems I could buy and what their good and bad points were?

I don't doubt this one bit after doing some checking using iStat. Flash is a HOG. This wasn't as big of a deal even five years ago when mobile computing was a much smaller segment. Nobody pays attention to power consumption on desktop computers. But as a MBP user, I can tell you that Flash-based stuff is a CPU hog. I thought a slide show on our Web site was about to crash Firefox yesterday because of a 20-second beach ball.

I don't think Jobs would be so up in arms about Flash if it wasn't because of this. More mobile Macs are sold than desktops, and iPhones and iPads are a big part of his company's future. Battery life is HUGE on mobile devices. I have to recharge mine every day from about 30 to 45 percent because of how much I use it. While I wouldn't mind a Flash on-off switch option, I don't blame Apple for not including it if the power reduction is from 10 hours to 1.5 hours on an iPad. Yikes.
 
I wish the world abandons Flash... But this seems very unreal... I wish Apple keeps rejecting Flash... but I'm afraid they will give up...
 
ChazUK said:
I remember the days when the iPhone didn't have apps for the sake of stability and security....

If Apple gave Adobe the chance to develop and test flash on iPhone OS (it wouldn't cost them anything to let them do the work) then I'd agree with the statement if it did turn out to be ****.

How do we know what one has "has the best cost/battery/stability tradeoffs" if both are never tested? :confused:
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It's been tested for ten years. There's no reason to think Adobe is suddenly going to put effort into getting it right. Also, while some shills and partisans here are claiming the contrary, Flash on other mobiles cuts battery life by up to half, or more:

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3636

Considering Adobe's track record on Apple OSs I wouldn't doubt that it's much worse on an iFoo device.
 
baryon said:
There's one thing Apple won't ever understand: Flash isn't just for designing websites and watching videos, damn it! What about animations, short films, and games?
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No, Apple understands this fact all too well. If they allow Flash, then non-App Store games will be allowed on the iPhone. This will undermine the success of the App Store and Apple will lose millions. This is simply Apple stiffling technology/features for their own monetary gain.

The fact that Jobs had to physically travel to WSJ headquarters is very telling. Giant media publishing firms are having concerns with the ability of the iPad to deliver their content.
 
I just tried it in Safari 4 and WebKit nightly and did not have a spinning beach ball in either (inface i started webkit first and then safari and had both videos playing at the same time with no issues)

-=XX=-Nephilim said:
Why people keep on posting this link is beyond me...

It just proves that whole HTML5 thing is crap!

I run MBP c2d 2.4 with 8600M + 10.5.8 + latest Safari...

THIS PAGE GIVES SPINNING BEACH BALL ON SAFARI AND IT DOESNT WORK!

I mean... LOL :D

Am I the only one in this forums that cant run that video!?!?! :confused:
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I wish it would be up to us to pick if we want 10 or 1.5 hours of battery life. Some apps use a lot of CPU but they are not banned. Even when HTML5 comes out not all websites will migrate to it. So the iPad will not be better than a laptop for internet because not all websites will load on it. Just my 2 cents. However, I will still be getting one of course. :)
 
In think in the grand scheme of things apple (and its user base) is a small voice and will not have much impact on shifts away from flash.
 
Breckenridge said:
Provide flash or I will not buy. apple always using power issues to avoid real answers to real problems. Flash does not effect other cell phones that support it. Looks like flash is going to bring death to apple soon.
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Well judging by the iPhone OS device sales death spiral you must be right.Time to sell my stock.Thanks!
 
andyone said:
Flash video is based on H.264, too. It's exactly the same, the only difference is the player - a SWF object vs. a <video> tag. Which is also why it is trivial for any Flash-Video based site to switch to HTML5 or to offer it optionally.
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Flash is capable of playing h264 encoded mp4 files, but that is different from .flv.
 
macaco74 said:
In think in the grand scheme of things apple (and its user base) is a small voice and will not have much impact on shifts away from flash.
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You're 100% correct. Google, Sony, and YES.. even Microsoft all support Flash.. and these are the players with the bigger voice.

Google just mentioned at the Mobile Conference that the mobile web NEEDS Flash.. and took a stab at Apple devices.. hmmmmm.. I didn't see that one posted on MacRumors, I wonder why.
 
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