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Steve Jobs' Wall Street Journal Visit Reportedly Included Arguments Against Flash

I agree that flash is a CPU hog. when I use a flash site, my cpu cycles jump up and if I continue using it, my temp gets a bit higher then I feel comfortable with. I am not sure if he needed to say it in such a forum, but it's not wrong information.
 
I love the contrasting (public) arguments for each platform.

Apple wants to ditch it because [insert technical and negative results here].

Adobe thinks Apply shouldn't ditch it because [insert other platform that is using it] is adopting it.

Perhaps talks would be different if both CEOs were in the same room and holding a back and forth conversation. BUt as it stands, Apple has legitimate reasons for "moving on" past Flash, and Adobe thinks they shouldn't because no one else has.

Adobe hasn't bothered to truly fix flash for years now, something every Apple user should be up in arms about. It is no surprise that Apple, one of the first to adopt the new, and push out the old, is dropping the idea of Flash.
 
Mac 13 said:
You can go to any part of the video without restarting it ? WoW :eek: I think Apple should buy this technology now!!

http://jilion.com/sublime/video
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Why people keep on posting this link is beyond me...

It just proves that whole HTML5 thing is crap!

I run MBP c2d 2.4 with 8600M + 10.5.8 + latest Safari...

THIS PAGE GIVES SPINNING BEACH BALL ON SAFARI AND IT DOESNT WORK!

I mean... LOL :D

Am I the only one in this forums that cant run that video!?!?! :confused:
 
Web designers who want people with iPhones and iPads to see their sites are going to have to avoid flash. Only those who can afford to ignore those users will use flash.

Web designers who want to keep their jobs are going to have to learn how to do without Flash.

Steve Jobs is addressing the right crowd, managers who pay to have web sites created for ther companies. Those are the guys who write the paychecks and if they tell their peope not to use Flash then Flash is dead. I suspect many of these managers will listen to Steve.
 
PeterQVenkman said:
And once that happens, then the license holders will start charging for it:
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Flash video is based on H.264, too. It's exactly the same, the only difference is the player - a SWF object vs. a <video> tag. Which is also why it is trivial for any Flash-Video based site to switch to HTML5 or to offer it optionally.
 
ChazUK said:
What utter bollocks. Apps will use the same CPU power decimating battery life so will they be banned next?
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What the heck are you talking about?

RIGHT NOW, flash on the mac uses double the CPU power than that of a PC. Not only that, but h264 is decoded in hardware on the iPad and iPhone.
 
All of Apple's technology is current. There is a difference between current and bleeding-edge.
 
Everything is very simple. Just optimise Flash on Mac and all sins will be forgiven, yet Adobe sits on it's fat body part doing nothing.
 
andiwm2003 said:
I think one of the biggest reasons against Flash is that you're locked in to Adobes system once your content and site design is made for Flash. It would be better to go with more open standards like H.246 and HTML5 and Javascript. They are more future proof.
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Maybe so, but for a device to work well in the present, it needs to be allowed to use very popular standards that exist for today. Apple's stance on this won't result in Flash being replaced by HTML5 + H.264 + Javascript overnight. Instead, it will take a very long time to get there, certainly longer than the life of any iPhones, Touches and iPads in use today.

What would be nice is to deliver a "present proof" solution for now, and also support the migration to the future they want us to desire. A Click2Flash type solution where users trying to play something in Flash are advised that it will burn battery faster should do the trick (and be a great way to consistently support the future, without "breaking" the present).

andiwm2003 said:
Right now if your content is in flash then you miss 50 million users on iPod touch and iPhones. And they are the most active mobile internet users. This shows that being locked into Flash can be a bad thing regardless whose fault it is that there is no Flash available. Once designers make Flash free site for iPhones then Android, Windows mobile and Palm users will use them as well. So the problem with Flash gets worse.
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But those 50 million are locked out by Apple's choice, not because the hardware or software couldn't support Flash now. It can't be a "bad thing" unless you lay blame solely at Apple's feet, who, in choosing to NOT allow their customers to use a free Flash plugin, are solely responsible for those customers NOT being able to access content they might want to access.

Sure, Adobe could do a lot of work to make Flash less power hungry and less CPU intensive, but it should be the user's choice to burn batteries faster... not Apple arbitrarily deciding for its users. Apple is wrong on this in a very Microsoft bully-like (our way or the highway) way.
 
freeny said:
I agree with Jobs on a lot of things but this is not one of them...
Flash is not just video, Its incredibly rich interactive web media that cannot be replaced with html5.

I have a feeling this will come back to bite the apple...
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Well it's certainly destroyed the iPhone and iPod Touch.
 
*LTD* said:
Go Steve! Nice to see Apple continuing to dictate the pace of change. Finally, a company that knows what they're doing in tech.
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Please see below. I don't think anyone would say that apple is the one tech company dictating change in the space, and to say so is probably opinion. Apple has absolutely zero presence in business and government who is more than likely going to dictate a base feature set.

DVD Plaza said:
Yes Apple USED to be the one pushing new technologies, but not anymore...

First to push USB, yet not using USB3.
First to push DVD, yet only person on the planet not using Blu-ray.
First access to some CPUs, yet last to still sell Core 2 Duo (at full premium price)!
First with a nextgen GUI, yet 10 years later it's now looking dated.
Blah blah blah.... Last to implement SD card slots, not yet using SATA3, heck what about built in 3G on MacBooks like we've had with ThinkPads for years?!

You're behind the times Jobs :(
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Apple likes to "innovate" by forcing upgrades in hardware.
 
coleridge78 said:
You have no idea whether it's bollocks or not, so your attempt to wear the "contrarian chic" badge looks silly.

I suspect it's not, because Flash video wouldn't be taking advantage of the H.264 hardware decoder. Moreover, your analogy to other apps is ridiculous, because we aren't talking about just any app that someone might stumble upon--we're talking about a critical field, browser-embedded video, that essentially has two competing technologies. Supporting one is cheaper and easier than supporting two, and of course they're going to support the one that has the best cost/battery/stability tradeoffs.
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I remember the days when the iPhone didn't have apps for the sake of stability and security....

If Apple gave Adobe the chance to develop and test flash on iPhone OS (it wouldn't cost them anything to let them do the work) then I'd agree with the statement if it did turn out to be ****.

How do we know what one has "has the best cost/battery/stability tradeoffs" if both are never tested? :confused:
 
Personally, althought I really dislike Flash because it is buggy and a CPU hog, I still think Apple should get it on the iPad.

The iPhone it wasn't such a problem, but with the iPad they are missing a huge market. Just as an example, my wife is a massive Farmville fan, yep that game on FaceBook. I know people will say its just a stupid game, but bear in mind that it currently has 75 million users and thats a big market Apple are missing out on.

Both my wife, mom, auntie and a few other freinds who know I'm an :apple: nut really loved the iPad when it was on the news, but as soon as they found out it couldn't play Farmville or other games like it they were not interested and called it a piece of crap.

Just my 2c. I agree flash is rubbish, but you're not talking a few users here, 75 millions people on just 1 flash site is a lot of people meaning Flash isn't dead just yet.
 
There's one thing Apple won't ever understand: Flash isn't just for designing websites and watching videos, damn it! What about animations, short films, and games? I like creating those, and I don't have time or energy to learn some complex programming language so I can't make an animated cartoon for example if Flash gets abandoned. HTML 5 will not allow that. Flash works wonderfully on Windows computers, therefore the problem is NOT with Flash. The problem is with the Mac version of Flash. It's Adobe's fault, but that doesn't mean Flash is bad and old.

Flash has nothing to do with HTML. Sure, there are places where they overlap, but saying that HTML 5 can replace Flash is like saying C++ can replace the piano. Flash is for animation, it has evolved from Macromedia Director, which was animation software. You can also make games with it so damn easily without having to be a nerdy programmer. It's not like the iPhone SDK that I can't even do anything with because it's way too complicated for me. If the iPhone could run Flash, I would be able to make games for the iPhone... for my own amusement, without having to pay $100 to register as a developer, without having to worry about the App store, etc... Just post it on my own website, and show it to friends... What's wrong with that?
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
Hahahahahahahaha!

I can imagine old Steve foaming on his mouth talking non-sense and general ******** while at the same time, in the real world, things like this are happening:

FLASH ON NEXUS ONE! --- > http://theflashblog.com/?p=1781

Steve go retire for the sake of all of us please!

:D


EDIT:

By the way, did Steve or any one of you wonder, why Flash crashes Safari on the Mac and it never crashes Firefox!?!?!

LOL!

Perhaps Steve should be fixing Safari instead of talking poo...
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I stopped using firefox a couple of months ago because the flash based crashes became unbearable.

Multiple times a day.

Now I am using chrome and when flash crashes, which it does multiple times a day, it only hurts itself.
 
MacRumors said:


Building on comments reportedly made by Apple CEO Steve Jobs at a town hall meeting for company employees last month, Valleywag claims that Jobs focused a significant amount of effort during his recent visit to The Wall Street Journal on selling newspaper executives on the need to move away from Adobe Flash for digital content.According to the report, Jobs then shared a list of technologies such as floppy drives, data port standards, and CCFL-backlit LEDs that Apple had helped computer users abandon in favor of newer technologies.

In his arguments against Flash, Jobs reportedly claimed that including Flash support would have decimated the iPad's battery life, bringing it down from its claimed 10 hours to the neighborhood of 1.5 hours. Jobs also claimed that abandoning Flash in favor of other tools would be "trivial" for The Wall Street Journal, suggesting that they embrace H.264-encoded video has one means toward that end. He apparently did not address, however, the steps that would be required for the paper to entirely redo its entire Web-based content in iPad-friendly technologies such as JavaScript.

Just yesterday, Adobe Chief Technical Officer Kevin Lynch defended Flash's reputation on the Mac and noted that increasing numbers of smartphone operating are supporting the standard. Based on his comments, Lynch appears to remain hopeful that the adoption of Flash for mobile platforms will convince holdouts like Apple that it can be supported.

Article Link: Steve Jobs' Wall Street Journal Visit Reportedly Included Arguments Against Flash
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Is jobs such a megalomaniac that he truly believes people buy his BS on the subject of Flash???

"blu ray is a bag of hurt"

"no one reads any more"...
 
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