Windows XP always will remain popular and I am sure one can browse the web with that due to its strong following. Though, I think OS 9 was better than WinXP. If I recall, Windows XP came out the same time as OS 9.
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Nothing. Nothing except accepting the fact that you will need a web proxy like Browservice or WebRendering Proxy with a secondary machine like a Raspberry Pi as a Man In The Middle to provide you modern web on vintage manchines.
Or the “Web 1.1“ initiative. Anyway, the Web 2.0 is quickly evolving into a 3.0 being dominated by Javascript frameworks like React, Angular, Vue. From now, modern web sites will be made on JS frameworks that actually resemble web documents. Magento, a CMS for E-Commerce, now has a project to provide a JS framework frontend called Venia. It will be usable on all modern web browsers, but no vintage browsers will be able to open it.
The developers will not support old technology just for the sake of it. Actually, they shouldn’t have to. They would never need to do it in first place if they were following standards and good practices for graceful degradation, which helps mobile designs and in a secondary goal, retro computing.
Windows XP came out in 2001. It went EOL in 2014. The Mozilla based browsers for XP will eventually meet the same fate as TenFourFox and Classilla in a couple of years. I predict that it will happen around 2024.
Or the “Web 1.1“ initiative. Anyway, the Web 2.0 is quickly evolving into a 3.0 being dominated by Javascript frameworks like React, Angular, Vue. From now, modern web sites will be made on JS frameworks that actually resemble web documents. Magento, a CMS for E-Commerce, now has a project to provide a JS framework frontend called Venia. It will be usable on all modern web browsers, but no vintage browsers will be able to open it.
The developers will not support old technology just for the sake of it. Actually, they shouldn’t have to. They would never need to do it in first place if they were following standards and good practices for graceful degradation, which helps mobile designs and in a secondary goal, retro computing.
Windows XP came out in 2001. It went EOL in 2014. The Mozilla based browsers for XP will eventually meet the same fate as TenFourFox and Classilla in a couple of years. I predict that it will happen around 2024.
When was the true last time we could do everything web related on OS 9 ? I want to cry if it was recent because I did not know during those years.. when did YouTube play great without proxies or anything else ? Did IE 5.1.7 work ? Did Netscape do great ? When was the last time before all went south ?
so Intel Macs will face the samething ?
so Intel Macs will face the samething ?
Can we do anything with this or is it just an observe and surf what was ?
www.google.com.ua
You can now browse the web like it’s 1999 again
Just make sure you have a lot of spare time.
www.google.com.ua
Windows XP outlasted OS 10.5 Leopard, never mind OS 9. It got Firefox 52 and Chrome 49. Extremely extended support lasted until April 9th, 2019. Mac OS 9 isn't in the same league.
I think OS9 main rival was in fact Windows 98, not XP.
XP indeed fought against the very first OS X versions, but not Leopard. I think it fought against all OS X versions from Cheetah to Tiger. Leopard’s main threat was Windows Vista, another MS flop though.
The best Windows versions for me were (personal opinion) Windows For Workgroups 3.11, Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000 Professional. Win2000 was the most stable version I ever used until now, and is also done and dusted thanks to its obsolete status now, even though things like Blackwingcats Kernel Extender on MSFN tried to bring back life to it. It is easier now to use XP and remove the fisher price theme to retain the classic look, than to try and use Win2000 today. It’s the same thing in the end but with support for newer software.
I despise Win10 completely. It’s outrageous. So full of bugs that I cannot stand it anymore.
From XP onwards they were a (censored) complete (censored) and lost me to Macs when I got my first Mac in 2010 and was pissed with Win7 already.
I see Windows Me in the same league as the failed Apple’s Project Copland. What was Microsoft thinking back then???
As for Apple operating systems, I have a keen interest in System 7, MacOS 9, OS X Jaguar/Tiger/Snow Leopard. I’d add Mountain Lion to the list thanks to its great stability. From Mavericks onwards things were pretty bad but I think they finally got it right with Big Sur despite of what many people are talking now.
For Linux, my obvious choices are Ubuntu 20.04 and Debian 10. Solid systems with a good Desktop Experience on both Gnome and XFCE. When Apple announced the nee transition, I admit that I did not expect the M1s to be THAT good, and decided to experiment with Linux distros to give a longer life to my intel macs. But the M1s and Big Sur proved me wrong, and I am still there for the long run with Apple.
XP indeed fought against the very first OS X versions, but not Leopard. I think it fought against all OS X versions from Cheetah to Tiger. Leopard’s main threat was Windows Vista, another MS flop though.
The best Windows versions for me were (personal opinion) Windows For Workgroups 3.11, Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000 Professional. Win2000 was the most stable version I ever used until now, and is also done and dusted thanks to its obsolete status now, even though things like Blackwingcats Kernel Extender on MSFN tried to bring back life to it. It is easier now to use XP and remove the fisher price theme to retain the classic look, than to try and use Win2000 today. It’s the same thing in the end but with support for newer software.
I despise Win10 completely. It’s outrageous. So full of bugs that I cannot stand it anymore.
From XP onwards they were a (censored) complete (censored) and lost me to Macs when I got my first Mac in 2010 and was pissed with Win7 already.
I see Windows Me in the same league as the failed Apple’s Project Copland. What was Microsoft thinking back then???
As for Apple operating systems, I have a keen interest in System 7, MacOS 9, OS X Jaguar/Tiger/Snow Leopard. I’d add Mountain Lion to the list thanks to its great stability. From Mavericks onwards things were pretty bad but I think they finally got it right with Big Sur despite of what many people are talking now.
For Linux, my obvious choices are Ubuntu 20.04 and Debian 10. Solid systems with a good Desktop Experience on both Gnome and XFCE. When Apple announced the nee transition, I admit that I did not expect the M1s to be THAT good, and decided to experiment with Linux distros to give a longer life to my intel macs. But the M1s and Big Sur proved me wrong, and I am still there for the long run with Apple.
So, could Steve have prolonged OS 9 further ? It’s very sad when win98 abd Windows 2000 can still browse the web, while OS 9 can’t.. and I still trust that someone, maybe not me, will come up with a way for OS 9 to still be useful. I know we are talking about 2000 here, but I feel OS 9 wasn’t given much love to show it’s true potential. When you got your 1st Mac, how was OS 9 then ? Was it easier to browse the internet ? YouTube from its inception ran horribly on it due to flash. What more can we do to to keeo
OS 9 going or even classic Mac OS.. even in 1999 it wasn’t called classic. I wonder if some think Leopard is classic ? SETI - can I still use OS 9 for this ? In 2001-2002, I heard about it, but don’t remember using it.
OS 9 going or even classic Mac OS.. even in 1999 it wasn’t called classic. I wonder if some think Leopard is classic ? SETI - can I still use OS 9 for this ? In 2001-2002, I heard about it, but don’t remember using it.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: NO, Windows 98 and 2000 cannot browse the web still. There are no new browsers for them. Retrozilla just gives them pretty much the same thing Classilla gives to OS9, except for TLS 1.2 support. Javascript does not run, modern webpages do not render properly and most will choke, because both browsers cannot handle the modern web’s code. Both Windows 9x and OS 9 have pretty much the same browsing experience, and as such both need a web proxy like the ones I mentioned before.
Only XP is still browsable (for now) thanks to some Mozilla forks such as Pale Moon, despite of their arrogant developers, but it will end soon the same way TenFourFox did. SeaMonkey dropped XP support between 2019 and 2020. It’s the beginning of the end for XP.
I reiterate, Windows 98/2000 browsers are by no means any useful as of today. They’re in the same situation as OS9: Dead on water. You’re obviously deluded if you think that OS9 can still have a modern browser. Let me get it straight: There is absolutely no chance of a modern browser for it. And neither is for Windows 98. Bringing TLS 1.2 support to Classilla will not make all sites work magically for you. I have more chance of being a F1 World Champion than you or any other developer has to “bolt” a new rendering engine in a browser for OS9. Things do NOT work this way in programming.
Accept my advice and start looking for a web proxy solution that fits your needs and environment. It’s a more realistic target than fantasize about a new browser for OS9 with a newer engine and certificates. This subject has been dragged over and over, despite of @Dronecatcher and @z970mp advices to you. I understand your nostalgia with OS9, but everything has to come to an end. In retro computing, the best thing you can do is to use the vintage software as if it was still 1999. For example, I have a Windows 98 VM. Do I look like I want to play FIFA 2021 on it? No, I play both FIFA 99 and FIFA Road To World Cup 98, more realistic targets for that operating systems and for the same exact experience I had 22 years ago.
My first Mac in 2010 was the 13-inch MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo, running OS X Snow Leopard. Safari and Firefox were among my choices of a browser and they still are as of today on Big Sur.
Long answer: NO, Windows 98 and 2000 cannot browse the web still. There are no new browsers for them. Retrozilla just gives them pretty much the same thing Classilla gives to OS9, except for TLS 1.2 support. Javascript does not run, modern webpages do not render properly and most will choke, because both browsers cannot handle the modern web’s code. Both Windows 9x and OS 9 have pretty much the same browsing experience, and as such both need a web proxy like the ones I mentioned before.
Only XP is still browsable (for now) thanks to some Mozilla forks such as Pale Moon, despite of their arrogant developers, but it will end soon the same way TenFourFox did. SeaMonkey dropped XP support between 2019 and 2020. It’s the beginning of the end for XP.
I reiterate, Windows 98/2000 browsers are by no means any useful as of today. They’re in the same situation as OS9: Dead on water. You’re obviously deluded if you think that OS9 can still have a modern browser. Let me get it straight: There is absolutely no chance of a modern browser for it. And neither is for Windows 98. Bringing TLS 1.2 support to Classilla will not make all sites work magically for you. I have more chance of being a F1 World Champion than you or any other developer has to “bolt” a new rendering engine in a browser for OS9. Things do NOT work this way in programming.
Accept my advice and start looking for a web proxy solution that fits your needs and environment. It’s a more realistic target than fantasize about a new browser for OS9 with a newer engine and certificates. This subject has been dragged over and over, despite of @Dronecatcher and @z970mp advices to you. I understand your nostalgia with OS9, but everything has to come to an end. In retro computing, the best thing you can do is to use the vintage software as if it was still 1999. For example, I have a Windows 98 VM. Do I look like I want to play FIFA 2021 on it? No, I play both FIFA 99 and FIFA Road To World Cup 98, more realistic targets for that operating systems and for the same exact experience I had 22 years ago.
My first Mac in 2010 was the 13-inch MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo, running OS X Snow Leopard. Safari and Firefox were among my choices of a browser and they still are as of today on Big Sur.
Snow Leopard still browses the web using Firefox legacy.. I also have the last version of chrome.. so, let’s say it was 2010 - world OS 9 still browse the 2010 web ?
Why are you so concerned about the capability of OS9 in 2010? Embrace the age you're in, enjoy retro stuff for what it is, dreaming of reinventing the past will only lead you to disappointments.
On some subconscious level, I sincerely believe this is what he wants. 🤷♀️
What about SETI ? I have the old seti installer for OS 9, or SETI still used anymore ? Though life out in space is already known to exist.
Project Copland and then later Apple Rhapsody were the last attempts to keep it alive back in mid 90s before Steve came back because Apple acquired NeXT. Before NeXTSTEP, Copland was supposed to have the same features of Windows 98, using OS9 GUI, but ultimately failed and was one of the reasons that led Apple to a serious financial loss. Apple just had to admit that they couldn’t build an operating system themselves. They had to buy one with the features they wanted. The choices were NeXTSTEP and BeOS back in that day.
The solution for Apple back then, was to buy NeXT in 1996, a move that not only brought NeXTSTEP operating system to them, but also Steve Jobs back. NeXTSTEP later would become OpenSTEP before being called as Apple Rhapsody (internal codename) and getting a GUI facelift, using the same theme as OS9 Platinum.
However, Rhapsody was also going to the wrong direction so they went even further with a 180 U-turn. Darwin kernel, BSD features, a whole new desktop environment with Aqua theme. They eventually got it right. And then OS X Kodiak Developer Preview (and later public known as OS X Cheetah 10.0) was born. OS9 was dead right away, even though early OS X had a Classic Mode to help the transition. The best moment for OS X was definitely OS X Leopard.
The solution for Apple back then, was to buy NeXT in 1996, a move that not only brought NeXTSTEP operating system to them, but also Steve Jobs back. NeXTSTEP later would become OpenSTEP before being called as Apple Rhapsody (internal codename) and getting a GUI facelift, using the same theme as OS9 Platinum.
However, Rhapsody was also going to the wrong direction so they went even further with a 180 U-turn. Darwin kernel, BSD features, a whole new desktop environment with Aqua theme. They eventually got it right. And then OS X Kodiak Developer Preview (and later public known as OS X Cheetah 10.0) was born. OS9 was dead right away, even though early OS X had a Classic Mode to help the transition. The best moment for OS X was definitely OS X Leopard.
I'm guessing it's the substitution of the biological clock for a technological one?
Really? I'd love to see a link to that information!
Seems, Leopard is doing rather well in the browsing internet.. so I guess it’s worth it to create a new browser for leopard, though we have tenfourfox (good till TSL 1.4), seamonkey PPC, links2, of course LWK which I am pleased with its performance - just a few pages it won’t load - why Wikipedia won’t still baffles me ? Who needs security for an encyclopedia ? Anyway, it’s good Leopard is still working perfectly. I also found a back door to read Wikipedia using Wilby.me
Let’s just say you all had the ability to enjoy OS 9 and I didn’t.. that is my fault of course, but had I known back in 2010(got Pismo) that it was still possible to enjoy OS 9.. even with the stuff I learned here the web sites frogfind, Wilby, oldweb.net all work whuch from there I can use most of the web in 9. Realiy, YouTube wasn’t good then and not good now.. if I want to watch a movie from YouTube, I can use PPCMCW(thank you Alex).
I had to burst laughing out loud. With all due respect to a great genius, Steve Jobs... Now Steve is in the sky with MacOS 9 forever. Also with OS X, that died last year without even a funeral. 👀
Don’t you know ? The Sirians - reptilian lizards. Just kidding, there is evidence this planet was visited many years ago - someone had to have helped the Egyptians or Mayans build their pyramids !
OS X didn’t die, it evolved to become the downfall of Apple.. Big Sur is nothing but a toy os, I have more respect for Snow Leopard before the icons became toy like.