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Regarding viewing macrumors in OS 9 - actually with oldnet.net I looked up macrumors, and was able to load 2000’s MR for looking at archival stuff.
The icons have always been toy like in OS9 and OS X. They are just standardized in Big Sur. While I do not like them too, I understand the path they want to follow. The same icons as iOS as a way to bring customers of one product to another, back and forth.
Because not everyone that owns a Mac has an iPhone, and not everyone that owns an iPhone has a Mac. I see the UI change as a way to attract more people that are used to one of these environments. iOS 15 may get more of the Big Sur too.
Because not everyone that owns a Mac has an iPhone, and not everyone that owns an iPhone has a Mac. I see the UI change as a way to attract more people that are used to one of these environments. iOS 15 may get more of the Big Sur too.
I can only imagine... had Apple fallen bankrupt in mid 90s, we wouldn’t have OS8 and OS9, and we would maybe be using a NeXTPhone, NeXTPad, NeXT OS Big Sur ? lol.
I wouldn’t have called it an “enjoyment” — especially every time the cursor froze or the bomb came up when headlong into working on a document, like in Photoshop, QuarkXPress, or Freehand.
One thing you’re fixated on is using browsers on OS 9, when even in the day, browsing was the “afterthought app” for using OS 9 — not the “killer app” by any measure. Perhaps you might find more to enjoy about OS 9 if you used software which didn’t turn its primary attention toward the web. There’s still plenty out there which you could explore with OS 9 which doesn’t involve 56K or a PPP connection.
Way I understand it, they almost bought BeOS instead, so who knows what alternate OSX we could have had fighting NeXT?
That’s of course your opinion
.I’ve used every version of Mac OS since OS9, and for me, there’s things to like about all of them. Having been a Mac user in those days, I recall the excitement for OS X and fear from old timers. I too am one that held off installing OS X although both CDs shipped with my G4. All said, OS X revolutionized the Mac and that progress continues in Big Sur, IMO. But I’m someone who has never hated a single release and always saw them as evolutionary steps.
My $.02...For retro computing, the internet really isn’t something I’d spend too much time worrying about. Software can stand time while the internet continues to tick-tock. Instead, enjoy the software from the period as others have suggested.
I’m an A/V guy. So for me, it’s all about tinkering with old video and audio programs for nostalgia. Up until a few years ago, I hung onto my G5 for nostalgia. It also allowed me easy access to a version of FCP that easily supported old projects and tape to tape. That need dried up, and so did my LCS, so I quietly moved on.
My interest in retro computing is primarily games. I got fed up of buying more and more newer hardware from nvidia and ati for newer games that always want more power, and these things are not cheap - especially if you live in Brazil. So I turned my attention to retro gaming. Cheaper, nearly free, easier and does not require newer hardware. A win situation for me and my wallet.
My first modem was an external 14.4, when I got a 56K I seriously thought my head would explode. Then I moved to the Caribbean and I got a "broadband" modem, 256K. I think my head did explode. If you had showed me the speed of today's internet in 2001 and what was possible (4k movies on demand, youtube etc) I simply would not have believed it.
I can't recall if anyone ever actually answered his question or not (understandable, given how this thread has devolved into a sea of glorified spam), but if this is really such an issue, then I suppose I'll step up.
@Macbookprodude I had a 400 MHz iMac G3 that dual-booted OS 9.2 and 10.4 during 2010 exactly. I distinctly remember that I frequently used it for Web browsing with both IE 5 (last updated in 2001) on OS 9, and Safari 4 (last updated in, coincidentally, 2010) on 10.4.
Making my best attempt to recall the details, I remember that there were many more Web 1.0-esque sites that made up a larger chunk of the broader Internet circa 2010 than they do now, just a decade later. Sites that existed to serve one purpose and do it exceedingly well, with slim to none user input (a lot like the UNIX philosophy, actually). I remember when Bing was new, and how I frequently used it to search for various simplistic websites that treated IE 5 fine. From what I recall, it commonly returned results actually akin to those wiby.me does now. I think I also remember reading news sites not dissimilar in appearance to today's 68k.news.
I remember frequently visiting a certain favorite arcade site to play the many popular Flash games of the day. I remember going to some random Internet chat room with total strangers. In addition, I remember that music sharing sites were much closer to indie artists sharing their music through venues similar to Bandcamp or even via their own custom sites (like this one, by the excellent Positively Dark) than everything just ending up on YouTube or Spotify for on demand streaming (for the bigger mainstream artists, you usually had to either get them on the iTunes Store, or buy their CDs from retail). I also remember playing YouTube videos in Safari 4 more or less without a hitch, in spite of Flash's numerous woes.
In fact, I still remember what I believe to be the first YouTube video I ever watched, right on Safari 4. I think this was it:
Keep in mind that Safari 4 was obviously much more capable at handling the then-new Web 2.0 than IE 5 was, although not nearly to the same extent today, given that most sites now require at least TLS 1.2 to enter.
IE 5 (and the like) were never necessarily better at handling the broader Web even then than they are now. As Web developers gradually transitioned their sites from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 design (and security) standards, and preexisting Web 1.0 sites fell out of publication due to domain leases not being renewed, and once-popular sites fell out of people's bookmark menus due to waning interest, older browsers (as well as the older computers they ran on) simply fell out of support, and things naturally just started breaking from there.
But the few Web 1.0 sites that remained where they were didn't go anywhere in terms of deprecation and support. They never left anything behind, and they remain just as compatible to this day with IE 5 as they did in 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007, and so on. In many ways, this is what the Web 1.1 initiative aims to recreate, by restoring the variety that was lost.
But first we have to decide on a standard to build from, which is of course, still underway.
@Macbookprodude I had a 400 MHz iMac G3 that dual-booted OS 9.2 and 10.4 during 2010 exactly. I distinctly remember that I frequently used it for Web browsing with both IE 5 (last updated in 2001) on OS 9, and Safari 4 (last updated in, coincidentally, 2010) on 10.4.
Making my best attempt to recall the details, I remember that there were many more Web 1.0-esque sites that made up a larger chunk of the broader Internet circa 2010 than they do now, just a decade later. Sites that existed to serve one purpose and do it exceedingly well, with slim to none user input (a lot like the UNIX philosophy, actually). I remember when Bing was new, and how I frequently used it to search for various simplistic websites that treated IE 5 fine. From what I recall, it commonly returned results actually akin to those wiby.me does now. I think I also remember reading news sites not dissimilar in appearance to today's 68k.news.
I remember frequently visiting a certain favorite arcade site to play the many popular Flash games of the day. I remember going to some random Internet chat room with total strangers. In addition, I remember that music sharing sites were much closer to indie artists sharing their music through venues similar to Bandcamp or even via their own custom sites (like this one, by the excellent Positively Dark) than everything just ending up on YouTube or Spotify for on demand streaming (for the bigger mainstream artists, you usually had to either get them on the iTunes Store, or buy their CDs from retail). I also remember playing YouTube videos in Safari 4 more or less without a hitch, in spite of Flash's numerous woes.
In fact, I still remember what I believe to be the first YouTube video I ever watched, right on Safari 4. I think this was it:
Keep in mind that Safari 4 was obviously much more capable at handling the then-new Web 2.0 than IE 5 was, although not nearly to the same extent today, given that most sites now require at least TLS 1.2 to enter.
IE 5 (and the like) were never necessarily better at handling the broader Web even then than they are now. As Web developers gradually transitioned their sites from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 design (and security) standards, and preexisting Web 1.0 sites fell out of publication due to domain leases not being renewed, and once-popular sites fell out of people's bookmark menus due to waning interest, older browsers (as well as the older computers they ran on) simply fell out of support, and things naturally just started breaking from there.
But the few Web 1.0 sites that remained where they were didn't go anywhere in terms of deprecation and support. They never left anything behind, and they remain just as compatible to this day with IE 5 as they did in 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007, and so on. In many ways, this is what the Web 1.1 initiative aims to recreate, by restoring the variety that was lost.
But first we have to decide on a standard to build from, which is of course, still underway.
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I agree with you fully. Thats why I have hope that the decision on a standard to build from is indeed still underway. About that chat program in OS 9 - I can help you with that, since I still use it in OS 9 and it works - IRCLE. Yes, I am an IRC chatter and many years ago before I got into Mac I was an IRCOP on EFnet during my transition from PC to Mac which was when I worked at CompUSA at the time as a PC tech. I saw the customers in the Apple section being harassed and told by the sales reps not for them to buy macs. I got very angry one day that I decided to make the jump with full feet. I will never forget it. My co-workers looked at me as I bought my 1st Power Mac G4 350 Sawtooth(Yes, there was a Sawtooth) of this model despite everyone telling me otherwise. I also bought Virtual PC 3.0, and Mac Os 9. Sadly, my G4 350 did not come with OS 8.6, but OS 9 exactly.I can't recall if anyone ever actually answered his question or not (understandable, given how this thread has devolved into a sea of glorified spam), but if this is really such an issue, then I suppose I'll step up.
@Macbookprodude I had a 400 MHz iMac G3 that dual-booted OS 9.2 and 10.4 during 2010 exactly. I distinctly remember that I frequently used it for Web browsing with both IE 5 (last updated in 2001) on OS 9, and Safari 4 (last updated in, coincidentally, 2010) on 10.4.
Making my best attempt to recall the details, I remember that there were many more Web 1.0-esque sites that made up a larger chunk of the broader Internet circa 2010 than they do now, just a decade later. Sites that existed to serve one purpose and do it exceedingly well, with slim to none user input (a lot like the UNIX philosophy, actually). I remember when Bing was new, and how I frequently used it to search for various simplistic websites that treated IE 5 fine. From what I recall, it commonly returned results actually akin to those wiby.me does now. I think I also remember reading news sites not dissimilar in appearance to today's 68k.news.
I remember frequently visiting a certain favorite arcade site to play the many popular Flash games of the day. I remember going to some random Internet chat room with total strangers. In addition, I remember that music sharing sites were much closer to indie artists sharing their music through venues similar to Bandcamp or even via their own custom sites (like this one, by the excellent Positively Dark) than everything just ending up on YouTube or Spotify for on demand streaming (for the bigger mainstream artists, you usually had to either get them on the iTunes Store, or buy their CDs from retail). I also remember playing YouTube videos in Safari 4 more or less without a hitch, in spite of Flash's numerous woes.
In fact, I still remember what I believe to be the first YouTube video I ever watched, right on Safari 4. I think this was it:
Keep in mind that Safari 4 was obviously much more capable at handling the then-new Web 2.0 than IE 5 was, although not nearly to the same extent today given that most sites now require at least TLS 1.2 to enter.
IE 5 (and the like) were never necessarily better at handling the broader Web then than they are now. As Web developers gradually transitioned their sites from Web 1.0 to Web 2.0 design (and security) standards, and preexisting Web 1.0 sites fell out of publication due to domain leases not being renewed, and once-popular sites fell out of people's bookmark menus due to waning interest, older browsers (as well as the older computers they ran on) simply fell out of support, and things naturally just started breaking from there.
But the few Web 1.0 sites that remained where they were didn't go anywhere in terms of deprecation and support. They never left anything behind, and they remain just as compatible to this day with IE 5 as they did in 2000, 2003, 2005, 2007, and so on. In many ways, this is what the Web 1.1 initiative aims to recreate, by restoring the variety that was lost.
But first we have to decide on a standard to build from, which is of course, still underway.
As time went on around late 2001-2002 I lost my job and had to sell off my beloved computer with everything I had. I wish I could go back and stop myself from doing so, but as the 2000s progressed, I managed to get a DA, towards the end of 2000s, I got a MDD 1.25 w/ 2MB L3 cache and boy was it fast ! Finally, traded up the MDD for my G5 Quad which I still have in perfect running order, but in the box currently. In late 2010 I got a Pismo with G4 550 upgrade - sadly, at that time I never thought about trying out youtube or the web under OS 9.2.2 - I missed the boat and sadly, time went on only till now where its too late, but I will say I found many websites will still load on all OS 9 browsers. I think I messed up Classila due to deleting certs and now it doesn't work right. That is my story. Just a few months back I managed to get a G4 Titanium 1ghz and I like this computer as I can get a lot of things done. Its very sad, indeed that youtube and I-net have to determine if a computer is useful or not. I also got the OS 9 Bible to learn more about the OS I grew up with in 2000-2001.
Thank you for answering my question. I know it feels like spam, but rest assured it is not. Yes, I am just very nostalgic for the tech of a few years back. 2000s don't seem like a long time ago.
I do not want to hijack @Dronecatcher ‘s thread and go off topic, but as an attempt to help @Macbookprodude on what he can do with vintage operating systems, and that there is more than just giving them web browsing, here is three of my virtual machines on my iPad Pro 2017 12.9 inch, running QEMU through UTM. Most modern machines like Ubuntu 20.04 for web development purposes and Windows 10 for work certificates are on my Mac’s VMware Fusion. I also happen to have another instance of Win 98 SE on DOSBox-X for 3Dfx Voodoo games. But no more words, here are three machines and what I can do with them in 2021:
MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows For Workgroups 3.11 (1993)
From there you can see I have a good selection of apps. I have a lot more of DOS Games outside Windows, like FIFA 94, Grand Prix 2, DOOM and Carmen Sandiego, to name a few. You’ll notice that I have added web browsing to it, Internet Explorer through Browservice web proxy. Outlook Express works through another web proxy based on stunnel. What can I do here? For example, I was using Visual Basic 3.0 to remember how to build a basic 16 bit application. I can use Office to write and read documents. I can use mIRC to get on freenode and chat a bit. I can play SimTower. But basically, this is a DOS gaming machine.
Windows 98 SE (1998)
Another Windows based gaming machine. You’ll notice that I have two browsers: IE 6 and Netscape 9. Netscape got updated with NSS updates from Roytam1, so it has TLS 1.2 support. However, it takes ages to load and run on first run, so I only use it for really needed stuff that I can’t get on IE 6 due to HTTPS, however web rendering on it is absolutely terrible without Browservice. Meanwhile, IE6 goes on the web thanks to Browservice web proxy, again. There is Outlook Express 6.0, this version can connect to IMAP services normally (as of the last time I tried, yes) so no proxy needed. There are a few notable games, mIRC again, and WinAmp for mp3. I could install Office if I wanted, but this being a machine on my limited iPad Pro storage, I’d rather just stick to gaming here. This machine attempts to replicate my Windows system to an exact (as possible) condition as seen in the 90’s of my childhood days, when I used to game a lot and go on mIRC to chat every night, after midnight because in Brazil, the dial-up was free for a few hours after midnight.
Mac OS 9.2.2 (2001)
This machine only exists because I was very curious about MacOS/OS X origins, so I started digging on System 7, MacOS 9, OS X early builds. The Platinum theme of OS 9 has got my attention and I fell in love with it. I decided to experiment with the system to see how it was 20 years ago. This system has made me seriously consider a PowerPC Mac Mini for example, but while I am on the brink of moving to Spain, I’d rather wait a bit more while I search for a good one and get used to OS 9 and to what I can do with it. Anyway, this OS 9 VM has A-Dock, which runs a dock similar to modern MacOS, and a few tweaks. Currently, I am using AMICO to reorganize my main menu apps. I have Classilla and a few productivity apps, as you can see. I can write, I can design on Photoshop, I can do some light web programming on BBEdit, I can watch some old videos on my Time Capsule (yes, DAVE has access to my modern Apple Time Capsule!!) with Quicktime. I have iTunes but I haven’t tried yet to sync with my old iPod Nano 1st gen (I do that using a Windows XP VM on VMware, though). I am going to reinstall IE 5.1.7 and Netscape 7.0.2 just to see which one of the three works better with Browservice. I can go to IRC with ircle. I can even get access to my email with Classilla’s email client, though I am yet to retry with Mulberry if I can get my IMAP folders organized and synced. I haven’t looked for any games under MacOS 9 yet. But I will surely go after SimCity, one of my favorite games.
So this was a round of what you can do with vintage operating systems... more than just getting depressed because you can’t do web browsing on modern Web 2.0. And I do support the Web 1.1 initiative here.
MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows For Workgroups 3.11 (1993)
From there you can see I have a good selection of apps. I have a lot more of DOS Games outside Windows, like FIFA 94, Grand Prix 2, DOOM and Carmen Sandiego, to name a few. You’ll notice that I have added web browsing to it, Internet Explorer through Browservice web proxy. Outlook Express works through another web proxy based on stunnel. What can I do here? For example, I was using Visual Basic 3.0 to remember how to build a basic 16 bit application. I can use Office to write and read documents. I can use mIRC to get on freenode and chat a bit. I can play SimTower. But basically, this is a DOS gaming machine.
Windows 98 SE (1998)
Another Windows based gaming machine. You’ll notice that I have two browsers: IE 6 and Netscape 9. Netscape got updated with NSS updates from Roytam1, so it has TLS 1.2 support. However, it takes ages to load and run on first run, so I only use it for really needed stuff that I can’t get on IE 6 due to HTTPS, however web rendering on it is absolutely terrible without Browservice. Meanwhile, IE6 goes on the web thanks to Browservice web proxy, again. There is Outlook Express 6.0, this version can connect to IMAP services normally (as of the last time I tried, yes) so no proxy needed. There are a few notable games, mIRC again, and WinAmp for mp3. I could install Office if I wanted, but this being a machine on my limited iPad Pro storage, I’d rather just stick to gaming here. This machine attempts to replicate my Windows system to an exact (as possible) condition as seen in the 90’s of my childhood days, when I used to game a lot and go on mIRC to chat every night, after midnight because in Brazil, the dial-up was free for a few hours after midnight.
Mac OS 9.2.2 (2001)
This machine only exists because I was very curious about MacOS/OS X origins, so I started digging on System 7, MacOS 9, OS X early builds. The Platinum theme of OS 9 has got my attention and I fell in love with it. I decided to experiment with the system to see how it was 20 years ago. This system has made me seriously consider a PowerPC Mac Mini for example, but while I am on the brink of moving to Spain, I’d rather wait a bit more while I search for a good one and get used to OS 9 and to what I can do with it. Anyway, this OS 9 VM has A-Dock, which runs a dock similar to modern MacOS, and a few tweaks. Currently, I am using AMICO to reorganize my main menu apps. I have Classilla and a few productivity apps, as you can see. I can write, I can design on Photoshop, I can do some light web programming on BBEdit, I can watch some old videos on my Time Capsule (yes, DAVE has access to my modern Apple Time Capsule!!) with Quicktime. I have iTunes but I haven’t tried yet to sync with my old iPod Nano 1st gen (I do that using a Windows XP VM on VMware, though). I am going to reinstall IE 5.1.7 and Netscape 7.0.2 just to see which one of the three works better with Browservice. I can go to IRC with ircle. I can even get access to my email with Classilla’s email client, though I am yet to retry with Mulberry if I can get my IMAP folders organized and synced. I haven’t looked for any games under MacOS 9 yet. But I will surely go after SimCity, one of my favorite games.
So this was a round of what you can do with vintage operating systems... more than just getting depressed because you can’t do web browsing on modern Web 2.0. And I do support the Web 1.1 initiative here.
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Very interesting ! How did you get the dock in 9 ? That is really cool.. what I want to do in OS 9 is web development, in addition to writing my own webpage and blog, I want to get more practice in basic HTML web design. I must try out browservice.. Netscape 7 will render it better than IE 5.1.7 i think. Ircle works and I use that also. Back in day I was an IrcOp for EFnet.
did you setup windows 3.11 and 98 plus dos under OS 9 using VPC 3.0 ? Like everyone else here I double support web 1.1 imitative as it’s the real web and it’s faster.
did you setup windows 3.11 and 98 plus dos under OS 9 using VPC 3.0 ? Like everyone else here I double support web 1.1 imitative as it’s the real web and it’s faster.
As far as email goes - I know Classila entail works. I tried to get mulberry to work, but it won’t work as is the same with outlook express.. I do much want to use outlook express because I remember using the hell out of it for email between 2001-2005. If you really want to master OS 9, get the OS 9 Bible.
I've heard good things about QEMU on iPad Pro, but I don't have a single iOS device to play with.
"Let's give the clueless home users another reiteration of Windows 98 - they have no clue that Windows 2000 is much better anyway."
Yes, another thumbs up for Windows 2000. For me it was the best Windows, fast, it just worked, no issues. Back in the day it was the only Windows installation for me that went smooth and up-and-running immediately after installation. Did not have to mess with iOs or drivers etc.
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Copland is more like Windows NT (including 2000, XP, 7, 10 etc.), except Apple did not finish it, while Microsoft finished theirs. Hence why NEXTStep jumped in to become OS X.
And yeah, ME sucks. 98SE, XP and 7 are where it's at. 2000 is cool, too, IIRC it's lighter than XP, but about the same, sort of.
And yeah, ME sucks. 98SE, XP and 7 are where it's at. 2000 is cool, too, IIRC it's lighter than XP, but about the same, sort of.
I used A-Dock: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/a-dock-301
Netscape 7 and IE 5 render about the same (censored) terribly, unfortunately.
No, I did not use VPC. I am using an iPad Pro 2017 12.9-inch and an app called UTM, which is a frontend for QEMU. These systems are all emulated, no real PCs or PowerPC machines were used.
On my 2013 Retina MacBook Pro 13-inch I am using a fork of QEMU, called QEMU Screamer, available on github to compile and some precompiled binaries are also available on e-maculation. These are only for current modern macs.
For Web Development you can use Macromedia Dreamweaver 4.01 (for starters it's enough and has a WYSIWYG). Seasoned web developers like me will prefer to code without WYSIWYG editors, using BBEdit.
I used a much newer version of Dreamweaver when I was on Snow Leopard 10 years ago, before moving on to Panic Coda, where I am until today.
Classila and Mulberry email clients works fine for Office365. I think OE will only work with a stunnel proxy method, same way I did for OE 5.0 under Windows 3.11. I already mentioned this method previously.
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My very first Windows 2000 installation greeted me in glorious 640x480 at 16 colours because it didn't include drivers for my Matrox G400.
Had to download them from their website.
oh Yes, I remember that did happen on a few of my computers at the time, but overall an easy installation even after downloading the video and audio drivers. Seemed to me a more solid OS when first launched back in the day.My very first Windows 2000 installation greeted me in glorious 640x480 at 16 colours because it didn't include drivers for my Matrox G400.
You're welcome; I'm glad I could be of service.
In truth though, they weren't. I lived through both times, and searched for the opinions of other observant individuals who drew contrasts between then and now. And to cut a long story short, people and technology were literally the only things that ever changed.
So in my case, whenever I've had it with the 2020's and want to go back to the better times that the 2000's represents (which is quite frequently), all I have to do is forget all the events of today and break out this:
This:
And this:
And instantly, my personal perception of reality has just become a perfect replica of a specific period in time set during 2005. Meaning you may as well have successfully traveled through time.
Of course, you could just as well do the exact same action for your own perception of reality for some desired point in 2002, or the 1990's, or 1980's, and so forth to the exact same end result. The point is, life can be as simple (or complex) as you wish it to be. We're only here for so long, after all.
So given that, these silly (and they are silly) regrets, desires, and internal conflicts just have to fall away at some point or another. As previously stated, you have to realize eventually that neither the human mind nor body were ever meant to carry the weight of the world as is commonplace now. Nor were they meant to carry the past, present, and future all at once.
As I'm sure you can attest, it just isn't worth it.
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This company gave Windows 7 a Viking funeral, and it's glorious
Off to Valhalla, sweet prince.
www.windowscentral.com
