Target Working on QR Code Mobile Wallet as Apple Pay Holdout Continues

[dpx55]

It's easier to pull my real credit card out of my real wallet than have 100 apps, each for paying a single store.

This is no solution and personally, I wouldn't use it.

 

[Mac 128]

As long as their revenue is above fraud loss rates, what do they care? Remember, they make their money by taking on the risk and charging others. The main reason for US schemes to move to chip, is that it will shift the liability to many of the retailers who were formerly not liable.

And this is exactly why Wal-mart and Target are developing systems that aren't as bullet proof as Pay. Instead of paying merchant fees, they will assume the liability insurance themselves for much less.

But I don't really follow you, the move to chip only shifts liability onto a merchant who refuses to accommodate it. In fact, if an issuing bank has not yet issued a chipped card, the merchant assumes no liability should it be swapped. So the move to chip doesn't seem to put any additional burdens on the merchant except upgrading their POSTs.

 

[kdarling]

Or because people that use checks are getting tired of the gnashing of the teeth of those behind them? I groaned once, perhaps a little too loud. But the guy behind me sighed and moved to another lane. I was stuck, with hate looks. Whatever. I laughed later about it...

Meanie

If someone writes a check, or uses ten different prepaid cards to pay for one purchase, or argues over a coupon worth fifty cents, I try to be patient. Perhaps they're in a bad cash situation

What kills me is when a customer in front of me waits until everything is bagged and ready to go, before acting surprised that they actually have to PAY, and ONLY THEN start to rummage through their purse/bag for a card. Myself, I swipe my card at the grocery checkout the moment my first item is scanned, so I'm ready to pay the instant all is done. (An action which is not possible with contactless or chip cards.)

Apple should just refuse any new apps or updates which enable this sort of feature.

Or Apple should open up their NFC to everyone, and then the right payment app would come up automatically.

They don't offer tokenisation, and give direct access to someone's bank account details instead of just card details which can be changed more easily.

QR codes are tokens.

And this is exactly why Wal-mart and Target are developing systems that aren't as bullet proof as Pay. Instead of paying merchant fees, they will assume the liability insurance themselves for much less.

Yep.

But I don't really follow you, the move to chip only shifts liability onto a merchant who refuses to accommodate it. In fact, if an issuing bank has not yet issued a chipped card, the merchant assumes no liability should it be swapped. So the move to chip doesn't seem to put any additional burdens on the merchant except upgrading their POSTs.

Yep, that's what I meant. They're counting on the fact that many merchants won't upgrade to chip terminals.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Meanie

If someone writes a check, or uses ten different prepaid cards to pay for one purchase, or argues over a coupon worth fifty cents, I try to be patient. Perhaps they're in a bad cash situation

What kills me is when a customer in front of me waits until everything is bagged and ready to go, before acting surprised that they actually have to PAY, and ONLY THEN start to rummage through their purse/bag for a card. Myself, I swipe my card at the grocery checkout the moment my first item is scanned, so I'm ready to pay the instant all is done. (An action which is not possible with contactless or chip cards.)

That is what happened. All rang up, deer in headlights look from cashier, and the bloke THEN decides to write his check...

BTW, the local grocery will do Apple Pay right away after the transaction is started (scan first item), and then it asks 'debit or credit', and away we go. Sign at the end. Ironically it's their own customer loyalty system that you have to enter information on their credit card machine keypad, and that's what slows everything up. Occasionally stops things dead for a moment.

Home Despot allows the card to be inserted (capitalism sounds dirty, don't it) before the end of the scanning. You just have to leave it in until they are done...

 

[kironin]

It's easier to pull my real credit card out of my real wallet than have 100 apps, each for paying a single store.

This is no solution and personally, I wouldn't use it.

EXACTLY! this is DOA. Apple Pay hasn't been more convenient for me yet over just swiping a real card and it's better than this and has better security.

 

[mattyb_au]

Please tell me this are old stock photos of Target America, it's very retro looking...

 

[noisycats]

Ok. I admit. I haven't read the entire thread. But WTF?

What is this obsession with scanning QR codes?

I get that every retailer wants their own system in 'hopes' of minimizing frictional costs, but QR?

Is there a cost for utilizing NFC?

 

[noisycats]

And whomever mentioned above,... I 'do' the iPhone thing at whole foods the second I approach the register. No further interaction necessary. The system is smart enough to wait for a total, then process.

 

[tmiw]

I get that every retailer wants their own system in 'hopes' of minimizing frictional costs, but QR?

Perhaps it's a technical reason. From http://www.mobile-qr-codes.org/qr-codes-vs-barcodes.html:

When comparing the display of both: a conventional barcode can take up to ten times the amount of printing space as a QR code carrying the same amount of information. A QR code is capable of being read in 360 degrees, from any direction, thus eliminating any interference and negative effects from backgrounds.

Also, the algorithm which is used to create QR codes will allow for an error margin (approx. 7-30%).

That said, the 1D barcode used in Starbucks' app is pretty reliable in my experience.

 

[noisycats]

Perhaps it's a technical reason. From http://www.mobile-qr-codes.org/qr-codes-vs-barcodes.html:



That said, the 1D barcode used in Starbucks' app is pretty reliable in my experience.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Much appreciated. Seriously.

But, I still don't see what the advantage of scanning anything, QR or barcode, over NFC? Anyone?

 

[kdarling]

But, I still don't see what the advantage of scanning anything, QR or barcode, over NFC? Anyone?

For the same reason that airlines use QR codes for boarding passes, and Starbucks uses them for their app:

Every phone has a screen that can display the code.

Not every phone has NFC, and some that do don't allow app access to it (e.g. iPhone).

 

[upnorth85]

Stores should allow their customers to choose what form of payment to use. If profit from sales and revenue is important, they should not continue to dig deeper into the failed MCX hole. As a Minnesotan, I am very disappointed with the Target CEO.

 

[840quadra]

What's annoying is that many other Minnesota based companies now accept Apple Pay. I am disappointed with what I thought was a forward thinking company.

 

[AdamskiUK]

I don't get why the US is so behind with contactless payments. In the UK, we've had contactless running for years. There are so few places left without contactless. The few that held out as bastions of the old-age have converted pronto now Pay has arrived. My local Tesco swapped straight over the day my bank began accepting it.

How hard can it be?

 

[scoobydoo99]

Oh please. Cost is king and if it’s cheaper there, (especially if the difference is big enough), you’ll brave the trip and make the sale Apple Pay or not.

um. You realize we're talking about Target, right? Your argument might make sense if WalMart were the subject, but Target is the highest priced of the discount stores, precisely because its customers want the premium selection and environment as compared to WalMart. So, no, it's not cheaper there.

 

[cwt1nospam]

Lastly, If target is reading this, I am not looking for exclusive apps to be used at every store - I might as well keep all my credit cards in my wallet. I am looking for a single payment system on my watch or phone. I'd be willing to pay Target the extra penny per transaction for my convenience.

I sent them the link. Got a response with the usual corporate double speak, including the obligatory reference to using Apple Pay in their app. They'll continue to see no activity on my Target card until they wise up. I'm only one person though, so if you have their card, help out!

 

[geta]

Out of curiosity, all of you that using their phones for payments\digital wallet (NFC, QR codes, etc), and stopped carried their wallets - with all the security the phones and some of the system having now, you feel safe if you're losing your phone or if it got stollen - coz on top of losing the phone, all your credit cards details are gone as well ?

 

[Kabeyun]

Tangential to the topic, but I'm irritated by retailers who accept Apple Pay but then require us to then sign a paper slip. The whole point is that your device IS your signature so the extra signing step is removed. Staples and Big Y supermarkets do this, unless is just a flawed implementation by the management of my local stores.

Bringing back to the original topic, messing with Apple Pay this way makes it no more convenient than scanning a QR code (or using a credit card for that matter). Apple really needs to make sure participating stores understand how to implement Apple Pay correctly, otherwise we won't appreciate the real convenience, which will hurt adoption and allow silly approaches like QR code scanning to penetrate the market.

 

[BruiserB]

Out of curiosity, all of you that using their phones for payments\digital wallet (NFC, QR codes, etc), and stopped carried their wallets - with all the security the phones and some of the system having now, you feel safe if you're losing your phone or if it got stollen - coz on top of losing the phone, all your credit cards details are gone as well ?

There are no details in the phone that would be useful to a criminal. They can't extract your actual or device account numbers and they can't pay for anything unless you lost your finger along with the phone. You can also wipe your phone including ApplePay info via Find my iPhone.

Yes you temporarily would be without your cards, but that's no different than if you lost your wallet now. But your actual cards would be safe at home and you could use those until you have your phone replaced. At least the physical cards wouldn't be lost and potentially compromised.

 

[jthesssin]

I don't mind stores trying to do these gimmicks to track how people shop and compete with Apple Pay/Google wallet. However what does bother me is the lack of options. At least let the customer decide if he or she prefers Apple Pay and allows users to use NFC .

If they gave us options, they would lose... We will always choose Apple Pay over anything the merchants can come up with...

 

[geta]

There are no details in the phone that would be useful to a criminal. They can't extract your actual or device account numbers and they can't pay for anything unless you lost your finger along with the phone. You can also wipe your phone including ApplePay info via Find my iPhone.

Yes you temporarily would be without your cards, but that's no different than if you lost your wallet now. But your actual cards would be safe at home and you could use those until you have your phone replaced. At least the physical cards wouldn't be lost and potentially compromised.

Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[thomasfxlt58]

If the cost to Target isn't any more than the cost of a customer using a Visa or MC, then they should get on board. NFC is the correct approach to point of purchase payment so if hardware at the stores is the issue, there is no contest between any scanning technology and NFC. As all the "moms" figure out how to use their NFC payment systems Target will be deluged with snarkiness at POS and ultimately end up NFC anyway. Save yourself the PR headache Target.

 

[groovyd]

problem with the chip is it takes forever to read... most americans are used to a half second swipe and done, carry on. with the chip you actually have to wait for it. no one wants to wait for anything.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

While I think every store having it's own mobile payment system is annoying it's easy to see how a company like Target can force it on customers if they combine it with their Cartwheel app and expand the deals. Cartwheel is basically a mobile "loyalty card," so it's not a big jump to think in the future they could require your payment method to be tied to it to get the discount.

 

[Gregintosh]

True. And yet...

... many people here have said that having QR codes on their iOS device (for e.g. boarding passes and concert tickets), is quite useful, and have not had much difficulty with them.

You are right. But in those cases the QR code is more convenient than printing out and holding onto a piece of paper.

It is also safer because if someone steals your paper ticket they can use it where as if someone steals your phone they'd have to get through your passcode first (unlikely).

In this case, the QR code for payment makes things harder. Because everyone already walks around with their wallet anyway, it is actually more difficult to launch an app and click several buttons than it is to just pull your credit card out and swipe it. It is also much easier to just tap your phone or your watch on/near the payment terminal (NFC).

If any technology makes things harder for people, it has to either offset it with some strong incentives or it will fail. In this case, as far as we know there is 0 benefit/incentive to use the QR payments and more complexity than credit card swipes. It is a fail.