Teardown of New MacBook Pro's Retina Display Reveals 'Engineering Marvel'

[Rocketman]

not true. Sheets of glass were orginialy made from lumps of molten glass that were rolled, blown, expanded, flattened and finally spun into a disc before being cut into panes. The sheets were thicker towards the edge of the disc and were usually installed with the heavier side at the bottom.

Now you know

Yep.

 

[Medic311]

So, you have assumed that "capable" is the key point of this discussion? That doesn't appear accurate in any posts but your own. Dell has never shown the capability to custom design their own display. Whether or not they "could" is meaningless to this discussion of Apple designing theirs in the MBPr.

If you go back far enough, you will note that this really started when someone claimed Sharp or Samsung designed it, and Apple just bought the new design whole. Dell was just a contrast brought up as a company that clearly states they have no interest in such design tasks. I don't think it was meant to be inflammatory towards Dell. But you are reacting as if your name was Michael D.

I'm just analyzing the thread, here.

i specifically stated capability. if you interpreted otherwise, that would be your own mistake along with the poster "hchung"

 

[blackhand1001]

Those polarization sheets are on every lcd. This is not some innovation. And why does this make it sound like apple did something marvelous when it really is whoever manufactures the lcd panel.

 

[potatis]

When will engineering marvel be able to put SIM slots in the laptop like the iPad? It's not like the cellular standards change more rapidly than other standards?

 

[Rocketman]

Dell has never shown the capability to custom design their own display. Whether or not they "could" is meaningless to this discussion of Apple designing theirs in the MBPr

Apple has had a TB display for about a year or so. Nobody else has released a clone yet. They suck.

No TB port splitters, but some have been announced for 9-12 release. 1.5+ YEARS later.

When will engineering marvel be able to put SIM slots in the laptop like the iPad?

When the wireless networks can handle laptop bandwidth demands. Probably not soon. That crippling of laptops is why you can still make a phone call at all.

Rocketman

 

[anthony11]

Give it a year so the warranties of all these guys end. Then we'll find out.

Applecare is 3 years.

 

[anthony11]

Hasselblad... medium format is how you avoid sacrificing performance for quantity, though it comes at a price

My understanding is that the MF bodies AF slowly if at all, that the minimum inter-frame time is measured in seconds, and their high ISO performance is limited. They're designed to be used in posed studio situations.

I hope the screen proves to be reliable in the long term. It would suck if these things turns out to be fragile.

If it turns out to be a pervasive problem, Apple will either do something across the board, or be forced into it via a class action suit.

Technically glass is a liquid. Many windows in old Europe have slumped to the point of having large waves in them.

I've read claims that this is actually due to the old manufacturing processes, rather than flow over time.

I can also save a good deal of money upgrading RAM on my own.

No, you can't. Base configuration is 8GB, which is ample for almost everyone. The delta for going to the doubly ample 16GB model is $200. Were the ram socked commodity sticks, you wouldn't be finding them for "a good deal" less than $200.

Vendors always mark up memory, some worse than others. This $200 delta is nothing.

Remember iphone 4 antennagate?

Yep, it was a non-issue, given that anyone with a brain was already using some sort of case.

 

[AustinIllini]

Applecare is 3 years.

I have Applecare, but doesn't Apple cover for a year without it?

 

[thekev]

so is it a Sharp IGZO display?

No but I kind of feel like everyone just wants to hear about new technology implemented here whether or not it makes sense today. These things can take time to materialize, but it's not always a dramatic leap. Looking at different display technology needs to bring some kind of advantage whether its cost, appearance, power consumption, or whatever else. I wouldn't blame them for waiting for something stable though given the exotic nature of some of Apple's final implementations.

Do you own a car? Can you change your car engine? Or how about a wind screen? Or hey, what happens when you need to fix a car ignition key?

I can swap a spare tire. Does that count as a good metaphor for replacing a hard drive with a backup of the same volume? The car analogies are way too common on here. All of you just want to envision yourselves driving ferraris through Cupertino with Siri giving you turn by turn directions while writing email stopped at red lights on your macbook air because it's illegal to text on your iphone while driving in California. Speaking of Ferraris, have you ever seen how they handle in city driving? The engines don't like being held back by traffic.

Hindsight is 20/20. Most companies don't have the type of power needed to influence their supply chain like this. Dell engineers receive the mounting bracket and panel dimensions from Sharp and get designing. Apple engineers take a step back and pick out the pieces that don't need to be there. I know from my experience as a product designer that most companies don't allow the time or the flexibility to tweak such minute details.

I wouldn't suggest that allowing the designers to tell the engineers what parts are unnecessary is a good formula for long term reliability. If this is actually true it might explain a few first generation hiccups and later reverberations.

 

[hchung]

I don't know very much about LCDs. I do however know how to read. Maybe I missed it, but I do not see this article mentioning LG.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Teardown/9493/1#.T-Ei9WJYs5s

Step 5: "Markings on the inverter board read LP154WT1 (SJ) (A1) GD. Given that the board is soldered to the rest of the display, it appears to be a display manufactured by LG Philips."

The LP prefix for LCD panel model numbers typically identifies LG Philips. (reference other older panels such as the LP141X1, LP154W1, and too many others I've long forgotten)

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i specifically stated capability. if you interpreted otherwise, that would be your own mistake along with the poster "hchung"

I've seen enough Dell designed laptop parts and talked off the record with a few suppliers to know that Dell would need a lot of help had they had the interest in doing something like the Retina MBP.

Granted this was a few years ago, but I haven't seen anything that would imply a change from before. Hey, some companies do improve.

But if I were to buy a standard PC laptop, Dell isn't even up for consideration. I'd most likely go Lenovo.

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i was pointing out the fact that the guy is wrong who said that dell is incapable of that level of supplier influence.

my point was that it is not in Dell's best interests to go the route of customized parts with increased costs since over 65% of Dell's business is in enterprise and government and that segment of the industry doesn't value design, they value cost and maintainability (Dell computers are much easier to swap out parts in an IT environment and Dell as a company has the supply chain for replacement parts down to a science). the consumer market is a different beast, which as we see with Apple, consumers value physical design and attributes at the expense of cost. what works for Apple, works for Apple. what works for Dell, works for Dell. however what works from a profits standpoint has NO correlation to capability here

not to go off on you, and this statement doesn't apply to you since you've been confused by other posters who have butchered my posts with selective quotes, but this server is full of borderline illiterates or people lacking even the most basic reading comprehension skills. do yourself a favor and ignore them

And some of us are basically saying that Dell has neither the will nor the ability to influence suppliers as much as Apple does. (directly the opposite as what you suggested.)

The reasons are simply that Dell is not willing to pay or work with a supplier to develop anything custom on the scale Apple does.

 

[doobybiggs]

Those polarization sheets are on every lcd. This is not some innovation. And why does this make it sound like apple did something marvelous when it really is whoever manufactures the lcd panel.

cause that is the way apple markets it ... they are that amazing

 

[AidenShaw]

Not true. Sheets of glass were orginialy made from lumps of molten glass that were rolled, blown, expanded, flattened and finally spun into a disc before being cut into panes. The sheets were thicker towards the edge of the disc and were usually installed with the heavier side at the bottom.

Now you know

No - you're wrong and the original poster is right - glass is a liquid, and the ripples in centuries old glass is due to gravity.

Edit: I was wrong - the "old glass" stories are urban legends, and are most likely due to the manufacturing processes used back then.

Applecare is 3 years.

...but many will fail in the first year, and many more in the next two years.

And why is a 3 year warranty standard on a $2K Dell laptop, and an option on a $2K Apple laptop???

 

[repoman27]

When's the last time anyone tracked down a bad component on a motherboard or power supply or video card and FIXED it. No, we swap the whole component now. This is a continuation on this theme. If anything happens in the upper half of the MacBook Pro Retina (or I suspect the MacBook Air) they will just swap out the whole assembly. It's cheaper to replace it than paying a Tech to try to fix it. This meant that there was no reason to make it repairable. Other engineering constraints took priority.

This is exactly the crux of the issue. The folks bitching about lack of serviceability are failing to recognize that all they ever did was swap modular components anyway. The problem with innovative products is that they include components that are as yet uncommon and can't just be swapped out with industry standard parts from existing inventories.

I do actually perform low level repairs on my gear from time to time. I recently replaced a fried TVS diode on an HDD instead of junking it. A few minutes of research to diagnose the problem, a quick call to my local parts distributor, and a 10¢ diode and a bit of soldering saved a drive from being tossed on the trash heap. I've also replaced a CCFL lamp in an LCD panel instead of replacing the whole thing, which I wouldn't necessarily recommend. When I look at these teardowns, I never think to myself, "I'd never buy a computer with no replaceable parts." Instead I think, "Well here's a good reason to get some new tools."

Even soldered RAM is easily upgradeable... If you happen to have one of these:

 

[doobybiggs]

...but many will fail in the first year, and many more in the next two years.

And why is a 3 year warranty standard on a $2K Dell laptop, and an option on a $2K Apple laptop???

very true, most will fail in the first year if you buy something new. I have found if it makes it out of the first year you are good for a while.

To you 2nd part ... that is easy ... because Dell understands the $2k commitment and wants to please their customers ... Apple is arrogant and knows their customers will pay for it

 

[repoman27]

No - you're wrong and the original poster is right - glass is a liquid, and the ripples in centuries old glass is due to gravity.

No, you're wrong. As several other posters have pointed out, glass is not a liquid; it's an amorphous solid, and the ripples are from the manufacturing process and not gravity.

...but many will fail in the first year, and many more in the next two years.

And why is a 3 year warranty standard on a $2K Dell laptop, and an option on a $2K Apple laptop???

All manufacturers build the cost of whatever warranty they offer into the selling price. OEM's are aware that the typical consumers who buy PC's at a retail store look at up front cost when they are performing comparisons but will often pay for an add-on warranty at the register. The Dell's with 3-year warranties are targeting business buyers who are more concerned with TCO and prefer having the warranty cost included in the selling price when they itemize deductions on their taxes.

 

[Terrin]

No need to be rude. You were referring to the ifixit site. I was referring to the Macrumor's article. I didn't read the ifixit site.


Moreover, I originally stated that many thought the display would be manufactured by Sharp, including this Site.

I wouldn't overstate your reading ability. The article says the team thinks it's LG pretty clearly. "Markings on the inverter board read LP154WT1 (SJ) (A1) GD. Given that the board is soldered to the rest of the display, it appears to be a display manufactured by LG Philips."

----------

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Teardown/9493/1#.T-Ei9WJYs5s

Step 5: "Markings on the inverter board read LP154WT1 (SJ) (A1) GD. Given that the board is soldered to the rest of the display, it appears to be a display manufactured by LG Philips."

The LP prefix for LCD panel model numbers typically identifies LG Philips. (reference other older panels such as the LP141X1, LP154W1, and too many others I've long forgotten)


Thank you for the explanation.

 

[lannisters4life]

No - you're wrong and the original poster is right - glass is a liquid, and the ripples in centuries old glass is due to gravity

Get your chemistry straight, sunshine, before cranking out more rubbish like this.

 

[MacDownunder]

Or think out side CaNikon

Hasselblad... medium format is how you avoid sacrificing performance for quantity, though it comes at a price

The Pentax K5 delivers exceptional high ISO performance, and the just released consumer K30 is reputed to be on par as well. But like most if it's not CaNikon then people think it's rubbish...

 

[jonnysods]

I'm impressed!

 

[kockgunner]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess it really is a 'engineering marvel' if they can get it to look so good, so thing and with no glass! I too would presume that's why it doesn't say 'Macbook Pro'.

How is the bezel? Is it much smaller than the previous gen. 15"? I have the unibody 17" and the bezel is perfect proportion, however I think the 15" bezel if 10mm too thick.

No problem! I wanted to write a detailed description because I know I couldn't be the only one wondering how the Retina MBP screen is put together.

The bezel is indeed thinner and it seems like it's the same proportions relative to screen size as the 17". The whole machine seems much better proportioned just because of the thin bezel and the overall thinness of the chassis.

 

[krzyglue]

Gorilla Glass 2 is supposedly both stronger and flexible. The use of multiple materials to combine to make a "plastic" is likely how they do it.

Technically glass is a liquid. Many windows in old Europe have slumped to the point of having large waves in them.

BTW when they released iPhone 1 and folks asked about servicing it, they stated they would exchange hardware rather than doing repairs. That meme has arrived to the top level MacBook Pro now. That was 2007.

Rocketman

The "glass is a liquid" thing is a myth that for some reason refuses to die. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Glass_versus_supercooled_liquid

Back on topic, I still haven't had a chance to go into an Apple Store to see this thing for myself. I must say though I'm really really looking forward to it!

----------

Do you own a car? Can you change your car engine? Or how about a wind screen? Or hey, what happens when you need to fix a car ignition key?

The fact that this is how things often are doesn't justify it. BMW wants to charge me $250 to replace a stupid key, thanks to a design choice they made that does not allow solely the battery to be replaced. Opening the key necessitates breaking it apart, and the battery is soldered on the circuit board.. I'm not saying this is what Apple has done here, but I think the standard response of "well many things are like this" doesn't prove anything.

 

[Truffy]

Not sure if you looked at the linked article before posting, however it says the following on iFixit's teardown.

I had the same question as NStocks. I'm not sure if you actually read his question and your response, because it doesn't actually answer the question (I assume that you consider the text in bold to be somehow significant, but it left me ) Fortunately, Kockgunner was more helpful.

The screen has no covering glass so when you press hard enough, the LCD ripples like a traditional desktop LCD monitor. However, it is harder than a traditional unprotected LCD so it kind of feels like there is still glass there and requires more pressure to get that ripple effect. I've never seen anything constructed like it and I'm really interested in how they made an LCD with without glass still look like an edge to edge black surface.

 

[JonEC]

All that effort...

The mind boggles at the supreme feat of engineering required to offer users a gimmick that has virtually zero practical benefit to true Macbook Pro-fessionals. Hey...here's an idea...let's kill the 17" that directors, editors, photographers, VFX artists and musicians REALLY use and instead give everyone more pixels crammed into 15" than they have at home on their 51" TVs. And the extra battery life we could provide by not going "Retina"? Bah humbug. While there has always been a tendency at Apple to pour on hype at the expense of practicalities, the sheer brainpower and technical proficiency that were expended to deliver this latest display of marketing-driven myopia is truly astounding. This from a disappointed Apple fan and media professional...not a troll.

 

[jouster]

No - you're wrong and the original poster is right - glass is a liquid, and the ripples in centuries old glass is due to gravity.

Time this myth died.

In other news: the RMBP screen really is extremely thin. How many generations of processor/memory/storage/everything else shrinkage are we from having the entire computer in a fifteen inch screen of the same thickness, with processing power at least equal to today's core CPUs?

 

[frjonah]

My understanding is that the MF bodies AF slowly if at all, that the minimum inter-frame time is measured in seconds, and their high ISO performance is limited. They're designed to be used in posed studio situations.

That's not true... I own a Hasselblad AF camera (an H3D) and can attest the rapidity of the AF. As for ISO performance, I'm not familiar with your complaint... I've had no issues in any setting with mine, it's just brilliant. The photos have a depth to them that is just amazing, and I never shoot in a studio.

The difference is, very simply, the size of the sensor... a medium format sensor is much larger than a standard format camera, which historically has driven the price up significantly. And it's the gift that keeps on giving... not only are the cameras outrageously high, but so are the lenses and everything else with the Hasselblad logo. In that respect, I do see the similarity to Apple