Technology to Embed Face ID into MacBook Displays 'Doesn't Exist,' Says Gurman

[fwmireault]

Couldn't they have the sensors and camera 'sticking out' from the screen, and then for when the screen closes have some osrt of cut out where they slot into? This would not only allow face ID but also allow for far better quality webcams surely?

Is the only reason not to do this because of aesthetics, or would there be other drawbacks?

As I understand you suggest a cutout in the body of the computer itself. For sure, aesthetics are important to Apple, and that prevents them to deliver this design. But also, the cutout would be in the bottom part of the trackpad, so I guess Apple would have to downsize the trackpad or to give it a weird form. I don't see Apple going this way, they will probably refuse to implement it for years until they can deliver FaceID without these kind of compromise

 

[MauiPa]

But wouldn’t it be great? I can almost hear all the whining about the “bump”

 

[MauiPa]

I wonder whether Apple doesn't implement FaceID because of patents? Afterall, the technology is already present on Windows laptop for 6 years or so.

You mean unlock with a photo on windows?

 

[AlexESP]

I can’t figure out why it appears you’re so angry over a rumor.

Even if the MacBook were slightly thicker, does it really translate to making the experience any less to the consumer? Personally, I don’t think anybody would really take notice if it was slightly thicker to incorporate Face ID. I’d be fine with that.

It definitely makes the experience worse. The question is whether it’s worth it. And making it “slightly thicker” several times adds up. As it happened with the iPhone: without any individual major jump, the iPhone 13 Pro is much thicker than the iPhone 6. But in the case of the MBP, it’s already on the edge of being too much.

 

[MauiPa]

So it pretty much means that the notch is an aesthetic choice more than anything else. Maybe they could have made a small pill shaped cutout to accommodate for webcam and sensor. Maybe they didn’t to keep this as a “unique” feature for future iPhone?

In any case I still think Touch ID is better on a computer. So I’m not specifically waiting for faceID. Just a reduced notch.

Can’t you turn off the notch and just have the extra display space not used? I read you could

 

[fwmireault]

I agree with some users that TouchID is maybe better suited for use on Mac than FaceID. I will be happy with Touch ID when Apple will release a new magic Keyboard + numpad + TouchID in space gray to replace my previous one (non-Touch ID.

 

[jlc1978]

Can’t you turn off the notch and just have the extra display space not used? I read you could

You can, at least program by program. I simply use a balck desktop and it hides the notch visually.

Couldn't they have the sensors and camera 'sticking out' from the screen, and then for when the screen closes have some osrt of cut out where they slot into?

Right. And the whining about the "wart" would be epic.

One issue with Face ID is, depending on how it is implemented, would require unobstructed access to the camera; meaning either you can't cover it or have to uncover it each time it is used.

 

[fwmireault]

Can’t you turn off the notch and just have the extra display space not used? I read you could

You can install some third party applications that will crop your wallpaper to make it stop below the notch, but the menu bar will not go anywhere, it's just that it will be constantly on a black background, so the notch would be in a sens invisible

 

[Kissmo1980]

You mean unlock with a photo on windows?

That is not photo unlock - the cameras need to have similar to Face ID specific tech that allows for biometric face detection.

I have a logitech BRIO for Windows Hello sign in and it doesn’t work with photos.

 

[DanVM]

My understanding of Windows Hello is that it is just a 2D photographic scan, using IR for low light - but otherwise just a normal webcam. As such it is not as secure, and, in particular, can be fooled by a photo of the user's face.

FaceID, on the other hand, uses its dot projector, combined with the IR camera, to produce a 3D map of the face and is, therefore, more secure. It's this component that is more problematic at these sizes.

Face ID is a different technology that provides a whole other level of security. Basically Windows Hello is 2D and Face ID is 3D. Arguably many people would prefer to have face recognition even with less secure tech, but this is the difference.

Although Windows Hello is different from FaceID, still use a 3D technology and cannot be fooled with photos.

A closer look at logging into a Windows 10 PC with just your face

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What is Windows Hello? Microsoft’s biometrics security system explained

Windows Hello gives Windows users an alternate way to log into their devices and applications using a fingerprint, iris scan or facial recognition. Here’s what the technology does, who uses it and the hardware required.

www.computerworld.com

 

[AlexESP]

The most problematic issue about implementing Face ID on a laptop is not confirmation (that could be an on-screen button), but the fact that there are so many use scenarios: looking at a secondary monitor, having your screen in a weird angle… in a phone or a tablet, that’s usually a no-problem.

 

[MajorFubar]

FaceID would be a perfect solution, and far superior to TouchID in every way (as it is on mobile devices right now).

...said no twin ever. Short of a James Bond style retina scan Touch ID was the best we had.

 

[wonderings]

Why? Touch ID is much smarter on a mac then face ID. Always for biometrics you need to touch or press something to confirm, your hand is already on the keyboard so you just tap the touch id module. If you use face ID you still have to tap to confirm so whats the point?

My fingers go nowhere near the FaceID button when opening my laptop. I like the idea of FaceID for simplicity. Open your laptop, face scanned immediately and you are logged in. I can't imagine it being simpler.

 

[jlc1978]

My fingers go nowhere near the FaceID button when opening my laptop. I like the idea of FaceID for simplicity. Open your laptop, face scanned immediately and you are logged in. I can't imagine it being simpler.

Until you leave it open and have touch something to make it sleep, or constantly have to close and open it every time you stop using it. Even FaceID on the iPhone/iPad requires a touch and swipe to activate, even though it could automatically if so designed. I'd be surprised if Apple, for security reasons, designed a MBP with FaceID to autologon when opened.

 

[StuBeck]

The article mentions the thin laptop screens as the reason why FaceID hasn't been added to Macs. I'm curious: Is the technology to implement FaceID significantly different from that to use Windows Hello? I use WH on my XPS 9510, and that has a very thin screen (and a crappier camera than Macs have). I'm no engineer, so maybe that's legitimate according to the way Apple builds their systems? Or maybe the cost of the higher quality camera is extra space?

The article is being a bit inaccurate with its statements. The technology exists. Whether Apple wants to implement it at this stage is the question. Like a lot of tech companies, Apple will withhold certain features for various reasons. There is more to Windows Hello/FaceID than just a single camera, and I'm sure that part of the delay is to sync up the changes with other features management wants to wait on.

 

[TechRunner]

My understanding of Windows Hello is that it is just a 2D photographic scan, using IR for low light - but otherwise just a normal webcam. As such it is not as secure, and, in particular, can be fooled by a photo of the user's face.

FaceID, on the other hand, uses its dot projector, combined with the IR camera, to produce a 3D map of the face and is, therefore, more secure. It's this component that is more problematic at these sizes.

That makes sense. So the technology involved is significantly more complex, hence the need for more space. You've made me think about just using my fingerprint for logging in. Didn't realize the potential security issues involved in using Hello. Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated!

 

[laptech]

Maybe the technology is out there just not in the size Apple wants or it could be a case that the technology does exist but someone else holds all the IP and patents behind the technology and Apple does not want to pay any licensing fees.

 

[ksec]

The thinnest device with Face ID is 11 inch iPad Pro, which is 5,9 mm. Current 16 inch MacBook Pro screen is much thinner.

And that is about as small you can get. The actual package is about 5mm, the rest are casing, display and coverglass thickness. I remember there was roadmap to try and make it to sub 4mm. But even then your MacBook Pro, even the newest, slightly thicker MacBook Pro 16 lid are sub 3mm thickness, with the older Pre 2020 MBP being sub 2.5mm. You are practically asking for a sub 2mm Face ID package.

 

[PC_tech]

Are you a hardware engineer or been part of a design team for this type of technology? How do you know it could ‘easily’ implemented on the actual body?

Have YOU?

 

[nylonsteel]

i want face id and touch screen in macs

 

[PC_tech]

I’m confused, faceID didn’t exist at all until apple designed and made it for iPhones.

So surely it’s logical to say it doesn’t exist for macs until apple goes ahead and designs and makes it for macs?

Gurman seems to suggest apple are using off the shelf bits to build these laptops when we know they don’t.

Until Apple had someone else make it…

 

[torontotim]

This article doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t FaceID technology on an iPhone pretty thin? The iPhone certainly sends thin enough to be used as a laptop screen, no?

No actually. The MacBook Pro 14 lid is about 4mm thick. The iPhone 13 is 7.65mm thick.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Windows Hello is a photographic technology, which is entirely different to FaceID.

It's actually very close to FaceID, it has all the same components but the IR dot projector.

 

[now i see it]

Technology to Embed Face ID into MacBook Displays 'Doesn't Exist,' Says Gurman​

(but a 1/4” top bezel does)

 

[Shasterball]

It exists. I have it. Give me a buzz, Apple.