Technology to Embed Face ID into MacBook Displays 'Doesn't Exist,' Says Gurman

[code-m]

No, the display chassis of a MacBook Air/Pro will not provide enough thickness for FaceID. The dot projector assembly uses the full depth of the device, about 5mm on the iPad Pro 11. This is an issue of optics, not electronics. The dot projector uses LEDs that are bounced off of two prisms project a field of dots to measure 3D depth. This is not something that can be flattened down while achieving the same effect.

So the top portion of the Mac laptop cannot be 5mm thick and taper it down to its present thickness similar to the MBA design. What happened to Apple and being innovative?

 

[code-m]

Whatever Apple does, I’m sure this group will find something to whine about.

I’m hoping for a notch, TouchBar, and white bezels.

Not sure why the 2021 iMac was unable to get a silver bezel. Seriously Apple has done the pinstripe white, white and then black bezels but no silver. Missed opportunity. The Mac laptops have had white, silver and black.

 

[darngooddesign]

So the top portion of the Mac laptop cannot be 5mm thick and taper it down to its present thickness similar to the MBA design. What happened to Apple and being innovative?

When iFixit did a teardown of the new computers, they showed that the FaceID array components are twice has thick as the MBP's display assembly. So unless you are willing to accept a lid which is over double, to account for the array, the glass, and the aluminum, its current thickness, innovation has nothing to do with it.

 

[anshuvorty]

When iFixit did a teardown of the new computers, they showed that the FaceID array components are twice has thick as the MBP's display assembly. So unless you are willing to accept a lid which is over double, to account for the array, the glass, and the aluminum, its current thickness, innovation has nothing to do with it.

This man gets it!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So the top portion of the Mac laptop cannot be 5mm thick and taper it down to its present thickness similar to the MBA design. What happened to Apple and being innovative?

That’s not innovative. That’s the opposite of innovation as it’d be featuring an OLD not-advanced method, not a new one.

 

[clevins]

Is there a reason why people shouldn’t care about face ID?

I'm sitting here looking at my 7.65mm thick iPhone 13 Pro (with Face ID) and my 11.5mm thick M1 iMac (without) and wondering how this story makes sense.

Read the headline again.

 

[fooobar]

Apple has made it very clear that the technology doesn't work with identical twins... they're identical, it's kind of a given. For the vast majority of the population, FaceID is far more convenient and transparent to use, and it offers a higher level of security (1/1m chance of a false positive vs 1/50,000 for TouchID).

If you want an iPhone with TouchID, you can still buy the highly capable iPhone SE 2 that uses a different form of bioauthentication. Or, you could use a passcode and not bother with FaceID.

Just because a technology isn't suitable for everyone shouldn't mean that everyone should be deprived of its benefits.

for the vast majority of the population, the security of TouchID and FaceID are both more than adequate, and thus functionally equivalent - the difference in security level is more a theoretical than a practical consideration.

in fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about TouchID not actually being secure enough in real life (ie, false positives) - if anything, it's the other way around (false negatives due to wet/dirty/cracked/etc skin). all the spoofing attempts that were publicized required situations (and extra equipment) which just don't happen to most people in everyday life.

realistically, identical siblings is actually a bigger problem in real life since FaceID can't distinguish between them (apparently ~2.5% of babies born these days are twins!).

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I mean, I believe it. People don't seem to realize how much room the FaceID module takes up in an iPhone (and yes, an iPhone is significantly thicker than the MacBook Pro lid). The lid in the M1 Pro/Max MBPs was thickened to accommodate mini-LED. It would have be thickened even further to accomodate FaceID.

Why it hasn't appeared in the iMac yet is beyond me. The iMac is certainly capable of accommodating it and they were apparently considering it. So I can only conclude they didn't include it in the M1 iMac because they didn't want to (for some unknown reason).

 

[bwillwall]

I just wish they had made the notch smaller. I’m sure it will match future macs with Face ID, but I’d rather lose that continuity and have a small notch. I have enough icons in my menu bar for it to get in my way.

The notch isn't that big (tho relative to the physical camera lens it seems big). If you have that many menu icons they wouldn't have that much more room even without the notch. That means you're using like 90% of the screen with menu items + file menu. If you had much more at all, your icons would be overlapping the file menus even with no notch lol.

 

[clevins]

Why it hasn't appeared in the iMac yet is beyond me. The iMac is certainly capable of accommodating it and they were apparently considering it. So I can only conclude they didn't include it in the M1 iMac because they didn't want to (for some unknown reason).

See above. It confers little to no advantage over TouchID. They should, though, ship the iMacs with a Touch ID keyboard.

 

[code-m]

When iFixit did a teardown of the new computers, they showed that the FaceID array components are twice has thick as the MBP's display assembly. So unless you are willing to accept a lid which is over double, to account for the array, the glass, and the aluminum, its current thickness, innovation has nothing to do with it.

I mentioned it would be tapered, was that detail missed.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

See above. It confers little to no advantage over TouchID. They should, though, ship the iMacs with a Touch ID keyboard.

True. I guess I wouldn't say that it's superior to TouchID, but having to tap a key doesn't seem less convenient. To me they would be about the same. At least for purchases. To log into the computer wouldn't need an extra step.

 

[code-m]

That’s not innovative. That’s the opposite of innovation as it’d be featuring an OLD not-advanced method, not a new one.

How is it old the taper would be flipped with a gentle curve? ?

 

[turbineseaplane]

TouchID is just fine (and "enough")

 

[carestudio]

I am fine with TouchID-only Macs, please do not remove TouchID, Apple!!!

 

[code-m]

TouchID is just fine (and "enough")

Said an Apple Engineer who is unwilling to “innovate”? ?

 

[code-m]

I am fine with TouchID-only Macs, please do not remove TouchID, Apple!!!

Why not both TouchID and FaceID? It would provide accessibility options for the disabled. Why are people against this? Why must it only be about I cannot envision anything different so we are not going to explore other options mentality.

 

[GSWForever8]

The article mentions the thin laptop screens as the reason why FaceID hasn't been added to Macs. I'm curious: Is the technology to implement FaceID significantly different from that to use Windows Hello? I use WH on my XPS 9510, and that has a very thin screen (and a crappier camera than Macs have). I'm no engineer, so maybe that's legitimate according to the way Apple builds their systems? Or maybe the cost of the higher quality camera is extra space?

I’m pretty sure windows hello is not as secure as Face ID. Windows hello is 2d based, while Face ID is 3d based. And with Face ID on iPhones, most of the technology takes up more space(thus the reason the phone is thicker). To cram all that into an extremely thin display would be harder.

 

[Tagbert]

I just wish they had made the notch smaller. I’m sure it will match future macs with Face ID, but I’d rather lose that continuity and have a small notch. I have enough icons in my menu bar for it to get in my way.

You should checkout Bartender. Even without the notch, that menubar icon area becomes a cluttered mess with many icons that you use rarely. Bartender lets you move icons to a hidden area and then reveal them when you need them. It's a really helpful tool.

 

[4491275]

This used to be my opinion as well until I switched from Android to an iPhone 13. Any water, sweat, oils, dirt or anything else on your fingers will prevent a fingerprint reader from working. FaceID just works.

Except changing glasses, except face masks, only when you hold it up. Faceid most definitely does “just work” if your only goal is getting off the lock screen and not actually securing your phone.

 

[Tagbert]

So it pretty much means that the notch is an aesthetic choice more than anything else. Maybe they could have made a small pill shaped cutout to accommodate for webcam and sensor. Maybe they didn’t to keep this as a “unique” feature for future iPhone?

In any case I still think Touch ID is better on a computer. So I’m not specifically waiting for faceID. Just a reduced notch.

The notch is there to allow the screen to be as large as possible without making the case too big. It moves the menu bar outside of the main content area of the screen to make more room for content. The width of the notch is defined by the camera and multiple sensors in the unit.

 

[Tagbert]

I wonder whether Apple doesn't implement FaceID because of patents? Afterall, the technology is already present on Windows laptop for 6 years or so.

No, the technology has not been on a windows laptop for year. Windows uses a simple camera to look at your face and can be defeated by a photograph. FaceID uses an infrared dot projector to map the 3D contours of your face and identify you based on that.

 

[clevins]

True. I guess I wouldn't say that it's superior to TouchID, but having to tap a key doesn't seem less convenient. To me they would be about the same. At least for purchases. To log into the computer wouldn't need an extra step.

It's not LESS convenient that Touch ID when logged in, but it also doesnt add anything. If I have to tap a confirmation key, I can just tap the Touch ID key. Logging in... same. I can tap the Touch ID key and it's just as fast as Face ID.

 

[clevins]

Why not both TouchID and FaceID? It would provide accessibility options for the disabled. Why are people against this? Why must it only be about I cannot envision anything different so we are not going to explore other options mentality.

The conveninece for the disabled is a very good point. It has no advantage over Touch ID for folks who can easily use Touch ID but, yes, for people who cannot, Face ID would be a Good Thing.

 

[Tagbert]

Why does it need to be on the screen? It can easily be on the actual body angled up near the function keys

Nose ID!