Technology to Embed Face ID into MacBook Displays 'Doesn't Exist,' Says Gurman

[msackey]

Why? Touch ID is much smarter on a mac then face ID. Always for biometrics you need to touch or press something to confirm, your hand is already on the keyboard so you just tap the touch id module. If you use face ID you still have to tap to confirm so whats the point?

Hmm…while I don’t really care much whether FaceID is or isn’t implemented on the Mac laptop, what you describe isn’t really how it seems FaceID would work on a laptop machine, or at least in part.

Case in point: I use an iPad Pro with the Apple Magic Keyboard (the one that Apple developed specifically for the iPad Pro). In that scenario, I don’t necessarily have to touch the laptop to have FaceID work. For example, when certain notifications come up, I can just show my face to the camera and it can then reveal the details of that notification.

True, in order to activate the iPad Pro from “sleep” to awake, you either have to touch the screen or the keyboard.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Why it hasn't appeared in the iMac yet is beyond me. The iMac is certainly capable of accommodating it and they were apparently considering it. So I can only conclude they didn't include it in the M1 iMac because they didn't want to (for some unknown reason).

Because, as has already been suggested, a user would still be required to confirm the Face ID input through either a UI element or a button on the keyboard. On an iPhone or iPad one has to double-click a button or tap on the screen to confirm when, for instance, they wish to use Apple Pay.

But if a Mac already has Touch ID and the user must willingly press that button to authenticate an action, then there is no advantage to having the Face ID system there. Apple wouldn't have stuck with Touch ID on the Mac if they felt it was inconvenient - it's actually the opposite since your hands are in that facility anyway.

 

[fooobar]

Oh goodness, where to start.

• It's not all about enhanced security (this is a nice extra), FaceID is primarily around high levels of convenience. You'd open your MacBook and it's unlocked. No positioning your finger for a brief moment which takes a couple of seconds to do.
• It is far, far easier to spoof TouchID than FaceID. Back when FaceID was released, yes there were issues, but Apple has mopped these issues up and FaceID is now more secure than ever.
• There has been zero evidence to prove that the FaceID "unlock with a mask" feature is any less secure. They've said it is less accurate (as seen in screenshots), but that doesn't mean it's less secure. If the result of an authentication can't be reliably determined, it won't authenticate. It just means you'll be likely to have fewer successful authentications, not more unsuccessful ones.
• Twins don't have identical fingerprints.
• FaceID is convenient as hell, that's why people are interested in seeing it in more devices.
• Apple Watch doesn't need bioauthentication at all, because you can use your iPhone to unlock it. Would be an overcomplication, make the device more expensive, and take up more space that could be afforded to things like battery (which is important on tiny devices like the Watch).

as far as convenience goes, it's debatable which one is better - personally, I find TouchID much quicker to use in real life & more flexible than FaceID (on a phone at least)...

- with TouchID, my finger is already unlocking the phone while pulling it out of my pocket and I'm already at the homescreen by the time I'm looking at it. with FaceID it's actually slower cuz the phone requires line of sight with my face first, and then I still have to swipe up to get to the homescreen.

- that also means FaceID is less convenient to use if your phone is laying on a surface that your face isn't hovering over at the time, whereas with TouchID you can just reach over and authenticate with your finger (and no swipe up, if unlocking!).

- I also prefer that TouchID is an action I have to explicitly carry out, since there are times when I may not want it to authenticate. this would also be true in situations while using a computer, so I'd also prefer TouchID over FaceID on Macs as well.

- another nice bonus with TouchID is the ability to register multiple users on the same device (for those that take advantage of this), since FaceID doesn't currently allow this.

- TouchID obviously has no problems with masks, glasses/sunglasses, hats, facial expressions, facial swelling (ha!), etc. (but in exchange, it can't be used with gloves though).

- not everybody wants to wear an Apple Watch

- FaceID is responsible for the atrocious notch - nothing is worth such hideousness.


I know a lot of people like FaceID & while it gets the job done, I just don't find it any better to use than TouchID and actually think it's arguably worse of an experience (to me)...

 

[aevan]

Windows Hello also uses (requires) a camera with an IR sensor, so I wouldn't say it's entirely different than Face ID. A regular run-of-the-mill web cam does not work for Windows Hello.

It’s very different. Windows Hello does not make a 3D map of your face and is not used for payment authentication - it is much less secure and less complex. Yes, there are certain camera requirements for Hello, but it’s still not like Face ID.

 

[Tagbert]

I have a Thinkpad from 2016 that has FaceID. Pathetic, apple. Pathetic.

Yes, and I have a motorcycle. Can you hear it?

 

[darngooddesign]

I mentioned it would be tapered, was that detail missed.

Well, since the MBP's are not wedge shaped, for battery, cooling, and performance reasons, you are proposing that the Macs get thicker towards the front. Besides the whole display getting thicker would probably look weird.

 

[DanVM]

I’m pretty sure windows hello is not as secure as Face ID. Windows hello is 2d based, while Face ID is 3d based. And with Face ID on iPhones, most of the technology takes up more space(thus the reason the phone is thicker). To cram all that into an extremely thin display would be harder.

No, the technology has not been on a windows laptop for year. Windows uses a simple camera to look at your face and can be defeated by a photograph. FaceID uses an infrared dot projector to map the 3D contours of your face and identify you based on that.

Windows Hello also use a 3D technology, so a normal picture cannot bypass the security mechanisms.

A closer look at logging into a Windows 10 PC with just your face

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

What is Windows Hello? Microsoft’s biometrics security system explained

Windows Hello gives Windows users an alternate way to log into their devices and applications using a fingerprint, iris scan or facial recognition. Here’s what the technology does, who uses it and the hardware required.

www.computerworld.com

How Windows Hello for Business works

Learn how Windows Hello for Business works, and how it can help you protect your organization.

docs.microsoft.com

 

[bushman4]

Face ID is more likely to
Appear in the new iMac Pro later this year if it appears at all

 

[msackey]

Because, as has already been suggested, a user would still be required to confirm the Face ID input through either a UI element or a button on the keyboard. On an iPhone or iPad one has to double-click a button or tap on the screen to confirm when, for instance, they wish to use Apple Pay.

But if a Mac already has Touch ID and the user must willingly press that button to authenticate an action, then there is no advantage to having the Face ID system there. Apple wouldn't have stuck with Touch ID on the Mac if they felt it was inconvenient - it's actually the opposite since your hands are in that facility anyway.

I guess I see it differently (though I really don't care whether FaceID is or isn't implemented on the laptop). iPad Pro when docked to the Apple Magic Keyboard, which is how my iPad Pro is often used, is pretty much how I envision FaceID on laptop would work:
- when notification wakes up iPad, if you have setup notification such that no previews are granted unless FaceID is positive, then you'll need to FaceID in to see preview. This requires no touch input because when notifications appear, it wakes up the iPad but doesn't log you in unless you're authorized via FaceID.
- when iPad is asleep, you either touch screen or tap keyboard to wake it up and automatically FaceID will detect whether you're an authorized user.
- when iPad is "closed" (i.e., Apple keyboard is closed), then when you open the keyboard, it will wake up the iPad and it will also use FaceID (without further interaction) to detect if you are an authorized user

I think this is how FaceID on a laptop, if implemented, would pretty much work like.

 

[satchmo]

I’m curious if people here would prefer this approach from Lenovo.
It’s different and perhaps less jarring than the MBP’s notch?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I’m curious if people here would prefer this approach from Lenovo.
It’s different and perhaps less jarring than the MBP’s notch?

View attachment 1955600

I would, yes

A normal rectangular screen reduces a lot issues and software weirdness

 

[fooobar]

The notch isn't that big (tho relative to the physical camera lens it seems big). If you have that many menu icons they wouldn't have that much more room even without the notch. That means you're using like 90% of the screen with menu items + file menu. If you had much more at all, your icons would be overlapping the file menus even with no notch lol.

the problem with the notch (aside from being exceedingly ugly) is that it's right in the middle of the menubar. for those of us who use iStats (or other similar utilities), it's very easy to populate the menubar past the middle, where the notch is in the way.

imho, display areas should really be clean rectangular areas, with straight edges and no cutouts or notches. so yeah, i'd rather have a bezel & no notch.

 

[darngooddesign]

I’m curious if people here would prefer this approach from Lenovo.
It’s different and perhaps less jarring than the MBP’s notch?

View attachment 1955600

Personally I don't find the notch jarring at all; it has had no negatives for me on my 16" MBP.

I think that looks nice, but its a lower-spec, and likely physically smaller, webcam which is why it can fit in the bezel. I wonder if the Mac notch is its size because user testing demonstrated that people didn't like the notch being only half the height of the menu bar.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

This article doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t FaceID technology on an iPhone pretty thin? The iPhone certainly seems thin enough to be used as a laptop screen, no?

The iPhone is thin, but if you look at the displays on MacBooks, they're actually much thinner. You won't really see displays thicker than iPhones until you look at the pre-unibody models in the early 2000s.

 

[TheDailyApple]

The notch isn't that big (tho relative to the physical camera lens it seems big). If you have that many menu icons they wouldn't have that much more room even without the notch. That means you're using like 90% of the screen with menu items + file menu. If you had much more at all, your icons would be overlapping the file menus even with no notch lol.

This actually has been an issue with programs that have longer menus ever since big sur spaced everything further apart.

You should checkout Bartender. Even without the notch, that menubar icon area becomes a cluttered mess with many icons that you use rarely. Bartender lets you move icons to a hidden area and then reveal them when you need them. It's a really helpful tool.

Thanks for the tip, however I already remove the icons I don’t use. The biggest reason I have so many is that I use istat menus to monitor system resources.

 

[msackey]

The iPhone is thin, but if you look at the displays on MacBooks, they're actually much thinner. You won't really see displays thicker than iPhones until you look at the pre-unibody models in the early 2000s.

OK. I guess I’ll really have to look at my MacBook Pro at home to see. I believe you. It just never struck me as too thick when it comes to the iPhone screen.

 

[fooobar]

I’m curious if people here would prefer this approach from Lenovo.
It’s different and perhaps less jarring than the MBP’s notch?

View attachment 1955600

yes, that is far FAR superior because it does not intrude into & ruin the display area (which should ideally be a clean rectangle).

in fact, i wouldn't really call that a notch at all - they just cleverly disguised the upper bezel a little bit by using some trim. i wish Apple would've thought to do that instead...

 

[darngooddesign]

OK. I guess I’ll really have to look at my MacBook Pro at home to see. I believe you. It just never struck me as too thick when it comes to the iPhone screen.

This demonstrates the thickness of the Face ID array.

 

[turbineseaplane]

in fact, i wouldn't really call that a notch at all - they just cleverly disguised the upper bezel a little bit by using some trim. i wish Apple would've thought to do that instead...

Which is what they used to do with the webcam
I wish they'd go back to that as the design principle (hide stuff in the bezel)

 

[Unregistered 4U]

How is it old the taper would be flipped with a gentle curve? ?

The “old” is using old technology and a generic unoriginal way to solve it, which are both against the definition of “innovative”. It would be more “different” than innovative. Continuing to iterate and improving the technology OR coming up with novel ways to achieve the same result with the current screen thickness, THAT would be innovative.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I’m curious if people here would prefer this approach from Lenovo.
It’s different and perhaps less jarring than the MBP’s notch?

View attachment 1955600

Some would be fine, but another, likely similarly sized (and loud) group wouldn’t be. Apple understands you can’t please everyone and, in reality, they only need to please somewhere less than 20 million folks a year with their MacBook designs in order to be profitable with it. That someone that bought a MBP in the past and never plans to buy one again because of the notch isn’t a problem if Apple finds another 2 or 3 folks that don’t care.

 

[code-m]

Well, since the MBP's are not wedge shaped, for battery, cooling, and performance reasons, you are proposing that the Macs get thicker towards the front. Besides the whole display getting thicker would probably look weird.

Why would the whole display need to get thicker, only the top end where the camera is located and then tapered. Why would it look weird, there are many iconic designs Apple has released that looked weird in the beginning but became iconic. OG iMac, iMac G4 luxo lamp/flower pot, G4 Cube, MBA, etc.

 

[code-m]

The “old” is using old technology and a generic unoriginal way to solve it, which are both against the definition of “innovative”. It would be more “different” than innovative. Continuing to iterate and improving the technology OR coming up with novel ways to achieve the same result with the current screen thickness, THAT would be innovative.

The present 2021 MBP resembles the G4 MacBook boxy/squared with rounded edges design, similar to the TiBook. One could say the difference with the screen notch and rounded corners Liquid Retina display is new, but how is any of this not old just rehashed and still being considered innovative.

 

[dysamoria]

I don't think I want my display to be thicker just for faceID or a smaller notch. TouchID is good enough.

Is it already thinner than an iPhone?

I don’t understand this. Why do we need flimsy laptops?

 

[Yr Blues]

I call BS.