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I'm so old I remember when everyone complained about the PCIE/Compact Flash slot giving way to the "useless" SD card slot. My how our gripes change over time.

I'm so old I remember people calling Apple insane for ever making the $10k Lisa.

Whatever I first thought about that back then, I realized not much later that the idea was insanely great. When I first booted my own Mac 512k, I knew I'd left the world of DOS-based machines behind forever, at least for my personal computing requirements. I think I had one Toshiba laptop after that for awhile, mostly because I liked its keyboard.

Apple's had a lot of insanely great ideas, and some of them have been realized in great --even if sometimes late-- fashion, with meticulous attention to detail in hardware and software. As both have become more complex, and as Apple has expanded its product lines, and as more consumers have become more used to never looking under the hood of anything, it's probably natural enough that old timers can become alarmed at the appearance of seemingly more physical-function flaws on Apple rollouts, more updates "to enhance stability" and so forth.

Trying to look at Apple fairly, it's quite hard for me to know whether there has been an overall decline in "quality" or not. We ask so much more (and are given so much more ) than used to be the case with technological offerings no matter the manufacturer or type of gear.

As far as design related to human interface with our gear, I don't really think Apple can be faulted except that there are those of us who sometimes do tire of the metal metal metal -- but then what would the case manufacturers do for a living? ;) I welcomed the 5C for a break from all that aluminum but then embraced the SE when it came out. I cop to being one of those who mourned the passing of the G4 notebooks. But then I loved my blackjack Macbook and to me now the 13" mid-2012 refurbs I bought awhile back seem as solid as the 12" G4s I used for so long.

The software is an issue for me now though. It's about what we can do with gear and not just about what the gear looks like or its other physical attributes. I'm talking about what I regard as a deplorable shift away from the OS as truly and intentionally distinct from iOS. Every time another iTunes version comes out I expect now to see another feature removed or made less obviously still available. There was a time you could do almost anything with iTunes in terms of playlists and manipulation of playlist content. Now some of that is more of a challenge, not apparent, or not even possible. Why? Only reason I can think of is you wouldn't expect to be able to do it on an iPhone... and so I do find that trend alarming. Unlike some others I don't at all mind the continued incorporation of Store and Apple Music options within iTunes. I just don't like the ongoing reduction of content handling options in the library part of the application.

One more thing about software: I think it was a mistake to make the OS upgrades "free". The same as it was a mistake for our once great newspapers ever to make them "free". It's almost criminal how we've led younger generations to expect insanely great anything for nothing.

You may not get what you pay for when there's a nonzero pricetag on something, but you definitely degrade the very idea of quality when the artisans who create something see their work "sold" for nothing, regardless if they are actually paid well but by shifting that cost elsewhere. There's a downward tilt there in expectations and in morale as well, and we're seeing the effect everywhere.

That paragraph was not meant to be about H1B visas since among other things that would make the post political and land it in another forum. That paragraph was about not misleading people who think because something is free it's easy or simple, and worth about as much as we're asked to pay. That's not the case with Apple's OS. It was always worth paying something for, in fact worth paying more for, and it's a shame we no longer acknowledge that directly, in my opinion.
 
Meh, computers systems rotate over time. I mean, I remember when Compaq was the hot ticket item and Apple was a complete joke of a tool. That rotation is never going to end and you will see companies come and go. Apple has had a good run, but I do think that they are now past the prime of their lives for this round.

I will say that many of these co,mpanies have tried to lock people into their products by creating these proprietary eco systems. If you can avoid that, it won't ever matter what you use. Me? Well, most of my movies are in Apple so there is that....
 
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Well said, @LizKat on the changes to iTunes; creating playlists used to be a doddle - I am in the habit of giving CDs of playlists to friends, relatives as gifts (stuff that they either would like, love, or have requested) - and , increasingly, this is a challenge and a chore - whereas it used to be extremely straightforward.
 
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Trust me, I know this kind of problems...

(any good book on the cold war?)
I did my MA on the Cold War (albeit a narrow aspect of it). What kind of books are you looking for? Sorry to go OT you can take this to PM if you like.

Anyway, although I have reservations I sitll like Apple's products and most of their services - I'm still looking to leave Windows and get a Mac (likely an iMac and no I don't care if I get one before the "upgrade") and possibly an iPhone 7+ but the computer is my priority as my old HP is on its last legs I think.
 
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You are over analyzing my post. I was impressed by Steve Jobs and his vision. Apple is a company that wants to make money, as every other company. I am disappointed by their change in direction and I have stopped seeing any vision. I see a lot of differences compared to the Steve Jobs' Apple. On the other side I feel that going back to Microsoft is the right thing for me to do. Microsoft has corrected a lot of its mistakes and has shown to everybody that it can learn. Apple is on a decent and is moving away from its core beliefs.
I don't know if I am the only one getting fed up with constant references to Steve Jobs Apple, all you can say is the Apple of 5 years ago compared to the Apple of today. Steve was great, but the company may well have ended up taking the same route even if he was still alive. It is different running the company that is the underdog compared to one of the largest corporations in the world.

As for returning to Microsoft, sorry still to many bugs, Windows 10 spies on just about everything you do and for me looks like it's interface was designed by a bunch of kindergarten kids with a box of crayons. I have tried it as I have with all versions of Windows from v2.0 and don't get on with it, personal choice I know, but if I was to leave Apple Linux would be my next port of call.
 
Agree with many of the others. The OP is a tad overdramatic, but I agree with most of the points.

I was never a really big Steve Jobs fan. He kind of felt like a motivational speaker to me. Making small upgrades sound life-changing. Watching peoples' jaws drop over the announcement that the next iPhone would be half a millimeter thinner. I used to add keynotes to my iCal with alarms so that I could be sitting and waiting to watch them live. In the last years, I skipped through the video later. Nowadays, I don't even watch them.

Obviously, this is what business does, especially large, publicly-held corporations, but they are just in it for the money now. There's been very little actually interesting released in many years. I find myself enjoying Windows more, even though I still own only macs. I use my iPad only a remote for my work windows machine, and my phone pretty much to surf Facebook, text, and check email. They just never got to the potential I hoped for.

I was torn apart for even desiring a touchscreen mac. I was told it was a stupid idea and there should never be one offered. The new MacBooks look nice, but having to buy hundreds of dollars in new adapters will piss me off. So, I don't know...I just don't know where it will go from here. PCs are showing far more innovation and options. But starting over would suck.
 
I got a Surface Book and I am writing this post from it. After ten years going back to Windows feels strange. Some things are better, while others are not. The Surface Book has a very premium feel to it and the hardware is on par with Apple. As far as the OS concerns, it is different and it will take me a while to get used to everything. Interesting times I guess.
 
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I got a Surface Book and I am writing this post from it. After ten years going back to Windows feels strange. Some things are better, while others are not. The Surface Book has a very premium feel to it and the hardware is on par with Apple. As far as the OS concerns, it is different and it will take me a while to get used to everything. Interesting times I guess.

Enjoy your Surface Book, and I hope you get plenty of use out of it.
 
What are the major missteps that made me decide to leave Apple?
Apple is increasingly ignoring power users. Look at Aperture, look at how Final Cut Pro developed. macOS has become almost like iOS..The Mac Pro hasn't been updated for three years!
Apple can't compete in this space. They are a hardware manufacturer. It was cool that they made professional software, but it doesn't make sense for the business.

Apple is showing little innovation. I am sorry Apple Watch users. I understand you might like the Apple Watch, but for me this is not innovation.. It is a products that answers problems that do not exist. Apart from that I do not see what Apple is doing that is so innovative. I doubt that Apple has the right people to continue innovating. I lost faith.

I don't like smart-watches, but your critique that it "answers problems that don't exist" is a critique you could make for a wide array of products. It's not Apple specific.

How are you defining innovating? What is innovative to you?

The last Macbook Pro refresh. I believe that the Touch Bar is nice, but it would be better to have laptops with touch screens. The argument that it is not productive to work with touch screens on a Mac because of the verticality of the display, is for me not valid. There are many examples that show that it can work very well. My wife every time she uses my Macbook Pro, tries to scroll by touching the screen :) This shows how people that are not technology experts think about simple things. Microsoft was right. The Windows 8 implementation was a disaster, but with Windows 10 they corrected a lot of their missteps. I believe that Microsoft is on the right track here (but not 100% there yet).

I'm a big fan of the Surface products and Microsoft's direction, but this is just a user preference. You complain about macOS becoming more like iOS, but it's ok if Microsoft does the same with Windows?

The latest Macbook Pro (take 2): Why no SD card? Why the need for so many dongles? I understand forward thinking and I am all for it, but why on earth not at least include some of the most important dongles in the Macbook Pro package?

You don't need dongles. Stop buying things that require cords. Insist on only buying USB-c or wireless devices. The whole reason you think you need all these dongles in the first place is because we had a bunch of people make a ******** of different connectors. If you could start from square one and have either a single connector that does everything and is more capable than just about any other connector, or have a bazillion different connectors, have to buy dongles anyway because you never have the right connector, and always have to question whether you have the right connector heading to a meeting, what would you pick?

The last iPhones: Design wise no changes (still a great phone), but without a headphone jack (yes, I know it had to go and eventually it will go). I believe it should be replaced by a better technology. Apple didn't present a better technology (yet). If they did that, then I would be all for it. In the meantime I enjoy high res sound on my HTC 10. If Apple was serious about it, they would get rid of the headphone jack from all new products.
Bluetooth is just fine. Besides they gave you an extension cord for your wired headphones.

macOS Sierra: I see zero differences to the previous version. Zero.

? What differences do you want to see? Another complete UI redesign?

macOS Apps: For years I have experience how bad the underpinnings of some apps are (especially Mail, iCal and contacts). Apple has changed nothing in the last ten years in the way these apps work (in the background, not end user features). I see no improvements whatsoever.
This doesn't make sense. Besides, if you don't like them use alternatives. Apple is a hardware company.
 
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You are certainly right that I am emotional. I love computers. They are my hobby and profession at the same time. I bought into the vision of a charismatic personality and I am disappointed by the new Apple. I want to be using technologies that I believe them to have a good future, or/and the company that creates these technologies shows a vision I can understand and like at the same time. I am not an average user, and I understand that normal consumers do not have (or shouldn't have) any emotions whatsoever towards technology companies. I am different. I am at least a power user and I also work in technology as a Microsoft professional. I abandoned Microsoft when I saw that their direction was not the correct one.
I am now doing the same because of the same reasons.

Yes, when Steve Jobs died I was deeply sad and cried. I have no problem admitting that. That does not mean that my decision to join Apple at the first place was an emotional one. It was based on my view on technology at that time.
Now I believe that Apple is on a path I cannot identify with, so I am leaving Apple.

Many people do not need to identify with a computer company. I understand that. For me, as someone that is using technology not only as a tool, but sees it as a hobby, it is different.
Okay, I also use computers as both and a hobby and as a livelihood. Heck, I coach a robotics team, so can you say "Uber-geek" in one sentence? And, I too was upset when Steve Jobs died, not because I was overly emotional about him per se, but because the world had lost what I considered a brilliant mind. That being said, if their products did not suit me, and other products did suit me, I would leave them and I would not post a whining rant about it like some love-lost 14yo teenie-bopper. Seriously man, that was pitiful. Put on the big boy pants already.
[doublepost=1478463233][/doublepost]
I am too considering switching back to Microsoft (and consider that my first Mac was in 1984 when I was 4, and an Apple II and Apple III also came by my house), mainly because Apple's future in the desktop/laptop market doesn't seem too bright. I would never write a 200 line long post. It's a one liner at most: "Apple sucks right now, switching to Win/Linux/Commodore/Whatever".
Thanks for making me feel seriously old, seriously fast. LOL I used to fix Apple II, and one of my first certifications was on the PowerBook 180c (the color version of the Mac Tim Cook highlighted in the keynote).
 
Apple can't compete in this space. They are a hardware manufacturer. It was cool that they made professional software, but it doesn't make sense for the business.

I'm not sure where you lived in the last 15 years, but Apple transformed the whole video/film industry with Final Cut. Before them, there were only avid based editing suites costing dozens of thousand. Believe me, they were king. Then, they dumbed down its own software, going back years, leaving a lot (almost everyone in the indie film industry) of people abandoned. It was their choice and lack of vision that made this and SJ was alive and kicking at the time. They actually admitted the mistake but then, it was too late.

The logic was to show people how cool Apple was by making films, then, a lot of people bought their hardware. A lot of TVs stations etc.

I'm not going to mention Logic as well.

Apart from that, they have 200 B in bank. They could fund a new country if they wanted, let alone software.
 
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You don't need dongles. Stop buying things that require cords. Insist on only buying USB-c or wireless devices. The whole reason you think you need all these dongles in the first place is because we had a bunch of people make a ******** of different connectors. If you could start from square one and have either a single connector that does everything and is more capable than just about any other connector, or have a bazillion different connectors, have to buy dongles anyway because you never have the right connector, and always have to question whether you have the right connector heading to a meeting, what would you pick?

Moving towards that is fine. I have no problem with putting the new ports on the macbook. But they went all in. They took out literally every single other option. I have numerous hard drives, monitors, USB keys, plug-in devices, and other things that I have had for years. They plug into the same USB port that I've been able to plug into for nearly 20 years. To use those devices, I absolutely will have to buy adapters. If I decided to get one these, then any future purchases I make I can look for these connectors, but my desks full of devices will require adapters.

******** of different connectors, please. USB was the same connector for 20 years. Except for monitors, nearly every other device used that connector. Networking has been the same connector for eons. There was all that FireWire stuff, though.

Bluetooth is just fine. Besides they gave you an extension cord for your wired headphones.

Bluetooth is fine if you use bluetooth headphones. Otherwise, you apparently need yet another adapter.

? What differences do you want to see? Another complete UI redesign?

What's the point of an OS release if there are no features or differences? And when the heck has Apple ever done a "complete UI redesign? iOS still looks almost exactly the same as it did on day one. OS X also looks almost identical to what it did 15 years ago.

This doesn't make sense. Besides, if you don't like them use alternatives. Apple is a hardware company.

They are now. They are a consumer devices company. They used to be a hardware and software company with a heavy lean towards higher-end audio and video. Then they essentially just abandoned that market. Then they decided that their business was seeing how much thinner they could keep making the same devices.
 
I'm not sure where you lived in the last 15 years, but Apple transformed the whole video/film industry with Final Cut. Before them, there were only avid based editing suites costing dozens of thousand. Believe me, they were king. Then, they dumbed down its own software, going back years, leaving a lot (almost everyone in the indie film industry) of people abandoned. It was their choice and lack of vision that made this and SJ was alive and kicking at the time. They actually admitted the mistake but then, it was too late.

The logic was to show people how cool Apple was by making films, then, a lot of people bought their hardware. A lot of TVs stations etc.

I'm not going to mention Logic as well.

Apart from that, they have 200 B in bank. They could fund a new country if they wanted, let alone software.

yeah and now they don't make that stuff anymore. It was over. Move on. Other great products are out there.
 
I share a similar opinion to the op.

As with politics you have those die hard fans that feel Apple can do no wrong and will buy their products and take up for them regardless. When a customer has that mindset, why would apple change?
 
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Moving towards that is fine. I have no problem with putting the new ports on the macbook. But they went all in. They took out literally every single other option. I have numerous hard drives, monitors, USB keys, plug-in devices, and other things that I have had for years. They plug into the same USB port that I've been able to plug into for nearly 20 years. To use those devices, I absolutely will have to buy adapters. If I decided to get one these, then any future purchases I make I can look for these connectors, but my desks full of devices will require adapters.
I've got a desk full of old devices, too. No plans on replacing them unless they crap out.

The only ones for me that insert directly into a USB-A port are thumb drives. I rarely use those, so I'll pick up one USB-C to USB-A adapter for those.

For the stuff I use on a fairly regular basis (external HDD for Time Machine backups, iPhone/iPad, digital camera, printer, etc), ... none of them plug directly into a USB-A port ... they all use USB cables. Instead of plugging an adapter on the end of those existing cables, I'm just going to replace the cables entirely with new ones that end in USB-C. For the stuff I use on an irregular basis, I'll use one of the new cables.

The one thing I like about all of the ports being USB-C is that (on the 15" MBP), you can now have four USB devices plugged in at the same time, if you needed it. Before, there were two USB ports and two TB ports. I rarely used the TB ports, so they were more or less wasted space. With USB-C ports, they can handle either USB or TB devices.. or a power adapter. Just seems more flexible overall. Minor thing, but I also I like the flexibility of plugging the power supply on either side of the notebook now. No more snaking the power cable behind the computer if the wall plug is on the other side of where I'm sitting when I'm out and about.
 
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... OS X also looks almost identical to what it did 15 years ago.
How soon we forget pinstriped window backgrounds:

Jaguar_on_G4.png


/hyperbole
 
What's the point of an OS release if there are no features or differences? And when the heck has Apple ever done a "complete UI redesign? iOS still looks almost exactly the same as it did on day one. OS X also looks almost identical to what it did 15 years ago.
With what Microsoft did to the UI with Windows 8, ... I appreciate how consistent OS X's has been over the years. :)
 
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Moving towards that is fine. I have no problem with putting the new ports on the macbook. But they went all in. They took out literally every single other option. I have numerous hard drives, monitors, USB keys, plug-in devices, and other things that I have had for years. They plug into the same USB port that I've been able to plug into for nearly 20 years. To use those devices, I absolutely will have to buy adapters. If I decided to get one these, then any future purchases I make I can look for these connectors, but my desks full of devices will require adapters.

No, if they keep giving you these USB ports, you'll keep using them. That's the problem. You should find ways to get rid of those devices. I get that it kind of sucks since you're stuck in an old paradigm, but you have to understand that this is just a transition and you'll have to deal with change.

******** of different connectors, please. USB was the same connector for 20 years. Except for monitors, nearly every other device used that connector. Networking has been the same connector for eons. There was all that FireWire stuff, though.

Most devices did, but it took a long time for many of them to get to that state because a bunch of manufacturers wanted to use their own standards or whatever.

Bluetooth is fine if you use bluetooth headphones. Otherwise, you apparently need yet another adapter.

No you don't. Apple ships an extension cable for free with each new iPhone.

What's the point of an OS release if there are no features or differences? And when the heck has Apple ever done a "complete UI redesign? iOS still looks almost exactly the same as it did on day one. OS X also looks almost identical to what it did 15 years ago.

Why do they need to change it, to start with? And what do you mean no features?


They are now. They are a consumer devices company. They used to be a hardware and software company with a heavy lean towards higher-end audio and video. Then they essentially just abandoned that market. Then they decided that their business was seeing how much thinner they could keep making the same devices.

They never made much money from Final Cut or whatever. It's time for them to exit that business. And they don't just keep making their devices thinner, they're also substantially more powerful, with the same or better battery life, and the best usability in the market.
 
OP, good post. Of course that good original post was followed up by a cavalcade of douchbag, ******* responses...remember what forum you are on.
Im not sure how original the OP was. After every major Apple announcement, there's always some long-time Apple user that peace out's. They all have their own unique twinge, but it's the same basic sentiment that people have been expressing over the last 12 years I've been reading posts here.
 
Honestly it sounds to me like you jumped ship to Apple while things were really dire in the Windows world. The PC world is a lot more welcoming than it was 10 years ago, so I understand the desire to take another look. Based on what you write, you sound to me more like a Windows guy who never really made the transition to Apple's way of doing things.

If you don't understand what's special about the AW vs the alternatives, you aren't looking very hard. Touch screens on laptops continue to be a completely 'meh' experience. Apple is right on this one, at least for the time being.

The kind of changes you are complaining about are quintessentially Apple. I guess you've been able to be part of the ecosystem for most of the last 10 years without really realizing that, because the Mac side of things has remained quietly stable for that entire time period. But that's exactly what Apple does. Makes a big change which feels risky and out of touch at the time, and then rides out that change, continuing to refine it for the next decade. That's what they did with the Mac line in about 2006. It's what they started with the iPhone in 2007 and the iPad a couple of years later. With the new Macs you are seeing the first big change in your tenure.

I've owned a couple of Surface devices now. For PC hardware they are above average. Reliability is well below average. And Microsoft's customer service is among the worst I've ever dealt with in any industry. The problems with these devices are legion. I'd be interested to hear how you feel after 6 months or a year.
 
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First AppleWorks, then Pages, then Numbers. Once stellar or good software being nerfed, a long consistent trend, but I'm not ready to leave the MacOS yet.
 
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