Ten years Apple user. Now it is time to say goodbye (at least for now)

[Zombie Acorn]

Ahem, what about Ubuntu or Debian itself (or FreeBSD if you want the authentic Mac Terminal experience)?

But if you have to use Windows, I find Cygwin works better than WSL so far.
I have big hopes for WSL, though.
Right now it's garbage (doesn't even run Emacs correctly), but I trust Microsoft has the money to spend on improving it.

This gets back to the hardware issue at least on the laptop, I use ubuntu or fedora on my desktop computer, but try to find a laptop that runs Linux well that is as lightweight as the MacBook Pro high dpi support with a trackpad that isn't garbage. It's a pretty high bar.

 

[QuarterSwede]

This gets back to the hardware issue at least on the laptop, I use ubuntu or fedora on my desktop computer, but try to find a laptop that runs Linux well that is as lightweight as the MacBook Pro high dpi support with a trackpad that isn't garbage. It's a pretty high bar.

It's hard enough to find a Windows laptop that'll meet that standard.

 

[villicodelirant]

This gets back to the hardware issue at least on the laptop, I use ubuntu or fedora on my desktop computer, but try to find a laptop that runs Linux well

Oh, this is actually dead easy.
Most business laptops run Linux very well.
This includes Thinkpads, Dell Latitude and HP Elitebooks.

HP and Dell even preinstall and directly support Ubuntu on select models.
That's not the case with Thinkpads, but they universally work well, except perhaps models that have been out for less than two months (refer to the various compatibility databases on the internet).

Then, of course, there are Linux-only companies like System76 and PenguinComputing, but those might be not worth if if you are not in the US.

that is as lightweight as the MacBook Pro

You catch me unprepared here. I consider the weight of all ultrabooks as "negligible", but if those couple grams are an issue perhaps Apple has an edge here.

a trackpad that isn't garbage

Similarly, I have had good experiences with the Synaptics trackpads shipped on Thinkpads and Latitudes - I guess you should be okay with anything that conforms to the Microsoft Precision TouchPad specs.

However, I hate all touchpads indistinctly, I'm a fan of trackpoints (I am a touch typist and I use my laptop on the field in cramped positions often), so my opinion is to be taken with a grain of salt.

It's hard enough to find a Windows laptop that'll meet that standard.

Oh come on now.
High end laptops from Dell/HP/Toshiba/Lenovo ship with the same panels and same CPUs you can find on Macbooks.
Long gone are the days of the infamous Intel Snail ads.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

you make some good points although I find the thinkpad to be pretty large and clunky, and the trackpad isn't as good (surface area seems smaller as I've used one for work). I've been looking at the oryx pro, seems like it would be the closest thing to what I want, but certainly doesn't look lightweight

 

[villicodelirant]

you make some good points although I find the thinkpad to be pretty large and clunky, and the trackpad isn't as good (surface area seems smaller as I've used one for work).

Which one? Weight-wise they generally go L4x0 > T4x0 > T4x0s > X-something > X1 Carbon (linked is the review of the model presented at CES 2017 - notice the bezel, USB-C ports and the weight < 1.1kg).
I really, really like Thinkpads, hardware-wise.
They are the machines in existence today that come closest to the beauty you can see in my avatar here
<---

I've been looking at the oryx pro, seems like it would be the closest thing to what I want, but certainly doesn't look lightweight

Looks like a nice machine, but it's approximately at the price point of the 13" MBP, with none of the features you can't get on a Mac today.
It might very well be the case that the MBP is the ideal machine for you

 

[aaronvan]

I have Linux, MacOS, and Windows and use the right tool for the right job. When you need to tighten a screw you don't reach for a pot trimmer.

 

[khitengoku]

I said it would be my last thread. I was curious if others are like me in a similar position. I don't see where the drama is

I don't really see the drama either. As a point of fact, I am considering returning to the windows world as well, even though that though pains me. I was gifted a macbook in 2010 to start animation. However, I migrated over from windows, as I was a tech for 15 years. I fell in love with mac. So many great features. However, with the death of user upgradability and the removal of the mag charger, it's becoming just a more expensive version of windows based computing, and that's saying something. Windows based computers don't last very long. Every couple years or so you have to buy a new laptop. A mac can run for a decade. However, I want upgradability. I can overlook the death of the mag charger, but not the soldered on hardware.

 

[petvas]

I don't really see the drama either. As a point of fact, I am considering returning to the windows world as well, even though that though pains me. I was gifted a macbook in 2010 to start animation. However, I migrated over from windows, as I was a tech for 15 years. I fell in love with mac. So many great features. However, with the death of user upgradability and the removal of the mag charger, it's becoming just a more expensive version of windows based computing, and that's saying something. Windows based computers don't last very long. Every couple years or so you have to buy a new laptop. A mac can run for a decade. However, I want upgradability. I can overlook the death of the mag charger, but not the soldered on hardware.

This is quite an old thread. My affair with Windows lasted three years. It was certainly good for me to see how well Microsoft's OS has progressed over the years. Now I am back to Apple and I learned to appreciate what I have. Apple offers a unique ecosystem that I decided to be part of it. That doesn't mean of course that Windows is bad. It is all about choices we make, depending on our life situation and needs. So, yes, I am back to Apple

 

[Expos of 1969]

This is quite an old thread. My affair with Windows lasted three years. It was certainly good for me to see how well Microsoft's OS has progressed over the years. Now I am back to Apple and I learned to appreciate what I have. Apple offers a unique ecosystem that I decided to be part of it. That doesn't mean of course that Windows is bad. It is all about choices we make, depending on our life situation and needs. So, yes, I am back to Apple

In your initial post that started this thread, you listed the major missteps Apple had made which you cited as your reasons for saying goodbye to Apple. I would find it interesting and educational to see a list of your reasons for coming back to Apple. If you are prepared to provide this information I would be grateful.

 

[Huntn]

• When I first started with Apple, it was the only game in town for personal computers, 1984 Apple IIe.
• 1984- The Apple Macintosh, the only choice for cutting edge home computing, it was expense, and I never owned one.
• 1993- I purchased a Macintosh Performa, at the time Windows 3.0 could just not compete with the MacOS which was a superior GUI interface.
• 1994- Bungie comes out with Marathon, a cutting edge shooter (game). It runs circles around Doom. I upgrade my Performa with the new PowerPC processor to play it.
• About 1996-98, I purchase my first PC to be used in tandem with my Mac because I got interested in gaming, wanted to play Half Life, and gaming was the Mac’s glaring weak spot. However, Windows 3.5 is still a joke, and Windows 95 still can’t compete with the Mac OS.
• 2019- I have a 2016 MacBookPro for serious computer endeavors, along with iPhone, and iPad, each fill a nitch and all work together splendidly because Apple owns both the hardware and software having created a cohesive Apple ecosystem. Other companies like Google and Microsoft are trying to emulate this hardware-software cohesion and which is impossible for Microsoft who sells their software to hundreds of individual hardware companies who tend to load it up with their own features and junk.
• 2019- I also have a home built PC, running Windows 10, just upgraded this year with a new GeForce 2060 graphic card that runs circles around my Mac for gaming and costs almost half as much. If I could not afford a Mac, a Windows powered PC is viable, but I believe it still relies on the registry, which I’ve always disliked, at one point hated.

 

[petvas]

In your initial post that started this thread, you listed the major missteps Apple had made which you cited as your reasons for saying goodbye to Apple. I would find it interesting and educational to see a list of your reasons for coming back to Apple. If you are prepared to provide this information I would be grateful.

I will try to explain why I returned:

In the three years I have used a series of devices, mainly Microsoft Surface computers and the experience hasn't been as great as when using an Apple computer. I have had a Surface Book, a Surface Book 2 and many Surface Pros (even the actual model). Most of the issues I had were driver/firmware related, but made the experience of using a Microsoft premium device not so premium, at least for me which I am spoiled by the way Apple computers work. I had issues with graphic drivers, especially on the Surface Book 2. When using the device detached as a tablet, and the attaching it to its base, would cause graphics corruption. Sometimes, when the devices woke up from sleep many things wouldn't work properly and a reboot was needed. Overall the experience of using Surface computers was not as smooth as when using Macs.
As far as Windows concerns, I consider myself to be an expert (I am a Microsoft IT Pro and work in the industry) and still couldn't understand where Microsoft is going with its OS. I think not even Microsoft really knows. There is this duality in Windows, which makes the whole experience not as optimal as it could be. On one side there are the Win32/64 apps and on the other side the UWP (RIP) apps. Most UWP apps have been underwhelming. Again I felt that things are better in theory than in reality. Windows is still not as smooth as an OS as macOS is. Also, Microsoft doesn't have a complete ecosystem like Apple does, so I had issues with the following services:

• Playing content from my computers to my TV. I know that there are various solutions out there, but none of them works as good as AirPlay!
• I had trouble finding a good video editing app as Final Cut Pro (I know that Premiere is great though, but I prefer Final Cut Pro)
• Font rendering is not on par with macOS. It works differently, but I prefer the way macOS handles fonts and rendering (but this is just my opinion).
• I couldn't find a good substitute for Omnifocus. I have tried many different apps, but none of them was as good as Omnifocus.
• Photo apps are also not as good as on the Mac. I prefer having Apple Photos..
• Backup: I love Time Machine and in Windows I used Acronis True Image. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Time Machine is much much better.

Overall, the most important services and software I have been using on my Mac, work much better than on Windows.

One of the biggest issues I had was the lack of integration with my smartphone. I have had many Android phones in the last years, but none of them had the level of integration that an iPhone has with macOS. Answering calls from my Mac, sending SMSs, using continuity and handoff, etc..All these things I have missed while I was on the other side..

Overall the key take aways are that for me, Apple has the most complete platform and if someone uses all components of it, then the functionality and level of integration is unparalleled. Windows is like an island and doesn't really offers solutions for my needs. It is also not as well thought out and polished as macOS. The lack of gestures or support for devices like the Magic Trackpad (there is nothing equivalent in the windows world AFAIK) is a regression for me.

At the same time I have seen Apple making steps to change its course, which made me leave on the first place. I see that Apple is now trying harder to make macOS exciting again. I see that macOS and Macs are very important to Apple again and that makes me happy.

 

[Huntn]

• When I first started with Apple, it was the only game in town for personal computers, 1984 Apple IIe.
• 1984- The Apple Macintosh, the only choice for cutting edge home computing, it was expense, and I never owned one.
• 1993- I purchased a Macintosh Performa, at the time Windows 3.0 could just not compete with the MacOS which was a superior GUI interface.
• 1994- Bungie comes out with Marathon, a cutting edge shooter (game). It runs circles around Doom. I upgrade my Performa with the new PowerPC processor to play it.
• About 1996-98, I purchase my first PC to be used in tandem with my Mac because I got interested in gaming, wanted to play Half Life, and gaming was the Mac’s glaring weak spot. However, Windows 3.5 is still a joke, and Windows 95 still can’t compete with the Mac OS.
• 2019- I have a 2016 MacBookPro for serious computer endeavors, along with iPhone, and iPad, each fill a nitch and all work together splendidly because Apple owns both the hardware and software having created a cohesive Apple ecosystem. Other companies like Google and Microsoft are trying to emulate this hardware-software cohesion and which is impossible for Microsoft who sells their software to hundreds of individual hardware companies who tend to load it up with their own features and junk.
• 2019- I also have a home built PC, running Windows 10, just upgraded this year with a new GeForce 2060 graphic card that runs circles around my Mac for gaming and costs almost half as much. If I could not afford a Mac, a Windows powered PC is viable, but I believe it still relies on the registry, which I’ve always disliked, at one point hated.

"Windows powered PC is viable". I said this today and tonight I'm having to Reset Windows 10 while the MS Gods are laughing at me s u c k e r! This kind of crap never happens on my Mac (knock on wood). I lost sound to my headset, after having sound today, but it still comes out my monitor. I have multiple cables, multiple headsets, and my audio drivers are up to date. I'll go over to Windows on Mac and see if they have any ideas over there.

Update: 4 hours later after resetting my Windows 10 PC, an automated process, I once again have sound in my headset, and a hundred apps I have to reinstall manually. So some want to know why we use Macs.

 

[Expos of 1969]

I will try to explain why I returned:

In the three years I have used a series of devices, mainly Microsoft Surface computers and the experience hasn't been as great as when using an Apple computer. I have had a Surface Book, a Surface Book 2 and many Surface Pros (even the actual model). Most of the issues I had were driver/firmware related, but made the experience of using a Microsoft premium device not so premium, at least for me which I am spoiled by the way Apple computers work. I had issues with graphic drivers, especially on the Surface Book 2. When using the device detached as a tablet, and the attaching it to its base, would cause graphics corruption. Sometimes, when the devices woke up from sleep many things wouldn't work properly and a reboot was needed. Overall the experience of using Surface computers was not as smooth as when using Macs.
As far as Windows concerns, I consider myself to be an expert (I am a Microsoft IT Pro and work in the industry) and still couldn't understand where Microsoft is going with its OS. I think not even Microsoft really knows. There is this duality in Windows, which makes the whole experience not as optimal as it could be. On one side there are the Win32/64 apps and on the other side the UWP (RIP) apps. Most UWP apps have been underwhelming. Again I felt that things are better in theory than in reality. Windows is still not as smooth as an OS as macOS is. Also, Microsoft doesn't have a complete ecosystem like Apple does, so I had issues with the following services:

• Playing content from my computers to my TV. I know that there are various solutions out there, but none of them works as good as AirPlay!
• I had trouble finding a good video editing app as Final Cut Pro (I know that Premiere is great though, but I prefer Final Cut Pro)
• Font rendering is not on par with macOS. It works differently, but I prefer the way macOS handles fonts and rendering (but this is just my opinion).
• I couldn't find a good substitute for Omnifocus. I have tried many different apps, but none of them was as good as Omnifocus.
• Photo apps are also not as good as on the Mac. I prefer having Apple Photos..
• Backup: I love Time Machine and in Windows I used Acronis True Image. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Time Machine is much much better.

Overall, the most important services and software I have been using on my Mac, work much better than on Windows.

One of the biggest issues I had was the lack of integration with my smartphone. I have had many Android phones in the last years, but none of them had the level of integration that an iPhone has with macOS. Answering calls from my Mac, sending SMSs, using continuity and handoff, etc..All these things I have missed while I was on the other side..

Overall the key take aways are that for me, Apple has the most complete platform and if someone uses all components of it, then the functionality and level of integration is unparalleled. Windows is like an island and doesn't really offers solutions for my needs. It is also not as well thought out and polished as macOS. The lack of gestures or support for devices like the Magic Trackpad (there is nothing equivalent in the windows world AFAIK) is a regression for me.

At the same time I have seen Apple making steps to change its course, which made me leave on the first place. I see that Apple is now trying harder to make macOS exciting again. I see that macOS and Macs are very important to Apple again and that makes me happy.

Thank you for this detailed response. Good info and food for thought.

 

[Huntn]

I will try to explain why I returned:

In the three years I have used a series of devices, mainly Microsoft Surface computers and the experience hasn't been as great as when using an Apple computer. I have had a Surface Book, a Surface Book 2 and many Surface Pros (even the actual model). Most of the issues I had were driver/firmware related, but made the experience of using a Microsoft premium device not so premium, at least for me which I am spoiled by the way Apple computers work. I had issues with graphic drivers, especially on the Surface Book 2. When using the device detached as a tablet, and the attaching it to its base, would cause graphics corruption. Sometimes, when the devices woke up from sleep many things wouldn't work properly and a reboot was needed. Overall the experience of using Surface computers was not as smooth as when using Macs.
As far as Windows concerns, I consider myself to be an expert (I am a Microsoft IT Pro and work in the industry) and still couldn't understand where Microsoft is going with its OS. I think not even Microsoft really knows. There is this duality in Windows, which makes the whole experience not as optimal as it could be. On one side there are the Win32/64 apps and on the other side the UWP (RIP) apps. Most UWP apps have been underwhelming. Again I felt that things are better in theory than in reality. Windows is still not as smooth as an OS as macOS is. Also, Microsoft doesn't have a complete ecosystem like Apple does, so I had issues with the following services:

• Playing content from my computers to my TV. I know that there are various solutions out there, but none of them works as good as AirPlay!
• I had trouble finding a good video editing app as Final Cut Pro (I know that Premiere is great though, but I prefer Final Cut Pro)
• Font rendering is not on par with macOS. It works differently, but I prefer the way macOS handles fonts and rendering (but this is just my opinion).
• I couldn't find a good substitute for Omnifocus. I have tried many different apps, but none of them was as good as Omnifocus.
• Photo apps are also not as good as on the Mac. I prefer having Apple Photos..
• Backup: I love Time Machine and in Windows I used Acronis True Image. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Time Machine is much much better.

Overall, the most important services and software I have been using on my Mac, work much better than on Windows.

One of the biggest issues I had was the lack of integration with my smartphone. I have had many Android phones in the last years, but none of them had the level of integration that an iPhone has with macOS. Answering calls from my Mac, sending SMSs, using continuity and handoff, etc..All these things I have missed while I was on the other side..

Overall the key take aways are that for me, Apple has the most complete platform and if someone uses all components of it, then the functionality and level of integration is unparalleled. Windows is like an island and doesn't really offers solutions for my needs. It is also not as well thought out and polished as macOS. The lack of gestures or support for devices like the Magic Trackpad (there is nothing equivalent in the windows world AFAIK) is a regression for me.

At the same time I have seen Apple making steps to change its course, which made me leave on the first place. I see that Apple is now trying harder to make macOS exciting again. I see that macOS and Macs are very important to Apple again and that makes me happy.

Informative Post. I am by no means a PC tech expert, but I mentioned the registry in my post which strikes me as one of Windows Achilles heals. My impression is that anytime a problem in Windows pops up, even if you take the machine to the shop for a Windows issue, there is a high percentage chance you either have to restore to backup or a clean install, because that is the easiest way, because Windows is a mess (non-technical impression).

The bottom line is that my Mac, it just works, while Windows is a source of semi-constant anxiety.

 

[Gutwrench]

My direct personal work machines are windows based and will stay that way, but for pleasure it’s iOS. The Office 365 products nicely bridge the gap for light quick work when only available on iOS. Otherwise in my use never do the two mix.

 

[TSE]

I know the original post is three years old, but the reek of self-importance was quite cringeworthy.

 

[Expos of 1969]

I know the original post is three years old, but the reek of self-importance was quite cringeworthy.

Nonsense. And your July post about having a telephone interview with " with one of the biggest tech companies in the entire world for a designer position" is to be considered as what?

 

[petvas]

I know the original post is three years old, but the reek of self-importance was quite cringeworthy.

I guess you haven't really understood that there might be other people in a similar situation, so such posts might be helpful. Sorry that you feel like that. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[Gutwrench]

I guess you haven't really understood that there might be other people in a similar situation, so such posts might be helpful. Sorry that you feel like that. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I think your original post is an accurate representation of the Apple business and it hasn’t changed much. At least from my point of view.

 

[AustinIllini]

I give Microsoft a ton of crap for Windows (easily the worst operating system in the world right now), but what they have done with services is truly remarkable. Being able to use Excel on my work PC, iPhone, iPad Pro, and MacBook Pro mostly seamlessly has been amazing.

 

[petvas]

I think your original post is an accurate representation of the Apple business and it hasn’t changed much. At least from my point of view.

As you see, I used to have this opinion, but after three years away from Apple, I changed it and returned back. That doesn't mean of course that this will happen to everyone with similar opinions. Every person makes its own decisions and depending on our life journey we choose different paths. Now I feel attracted by the Apple ecosystem. Obviously this hasn't been the case three years ago. Opinions are not set in stone. They can change and that's ok.

 

[TSE]

Nonsense. And your July post about having a telephone interview with " with one of the biggest tech companies in the entire world for a designer position" is to be considered as what?

Read that thread and see the response.

The fact you go through my post history actually kind of makes me feel more important than I did before.

Thanks, little man.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I will try to explain why I returned:

In the three years I have used a series of devices, mainly Microsoft Surface computers and the experience hasn't been as great as when using an Apple computer. I have had a Surface Book, a Surface Book 2 and many Surface Pros (even the actual model). Most of the issues I had were driver/firmware related, but made the experience of using a Microsoft premium device not so premium, at least for me which I am spoiled by the way Apple computers work. I had issues with graphic drivers, especially on the Surface Book 2. When using the device detached as a tablet, and the attaching it to its base, would cause graphics corruption. Sometimes, when the devices woke up from sleep many things wouldn't work properly and a reboot was needed. Overall the experience of using Surface computers was not as smooth as when using Macs.
As far as Windows concerns, I consider myself to be an expert (I am a Microsoft IT Pro and work in the industry) and still couldn't understand where Microsoft is going with its OS. I think not even Microsoft really knows. There is this duality in Windows, which makes the whole experience not as optimal as it could be. On one side there are the Win32/64 apps and on the other side the UWP (RIP) apps. Most UWP apps have been underwhelming. Again I felt that things are better in theory than in reality. Windows is still not as smooth as an OS as macOS is. Also, Microsoft doesn't have a complete ecosystem like Apple does, so I had issues with the following services:

• Playing content from my computers to my TV. I know that there are various solutions out there, but none of them works as good as AirPlay!
• I had trouble finding a good video editing app as Final Cut Pro (I know that Premiere is great though, but I prefer Final Cut Pro)
• Font rendering is not on par with macOS. It works differently, but I prefer the way macOS handles fonts and rendering (but this is just my opinion).
• I couldn't find a good substitute for Omnifocus. I have tried many different apps, but none of them was as good as Omnifocus.
• Photo apps are also not as good as on the Mac. I prefer having Apple Photos..
• Backup: I love Time Machine and in Windows I used Acronis True Image. There is absolutely no comparison between the two. Time Machine is much much better.

Overall, the most important services and software I have been using on my Mac, work much better than on Windows.

One of the biggest issues I had was the lack of integration with my smartphone. I have had many Android phones in the last years, but none of them had the level of integration that an iPhone has with macOS. Answering calls from my Mac, sending SMSs, using continuity and handoff, etc..All these things I have missed while I was on the other side..

Overall the key take aways are that for me, Apple has the most complete platform and if someone uses all components of it, then the functionality and level of integration is unparalleled. Windows is like an island and doesn't really offers solutions for my needs. It is also not as well thought out and polished as macOS. The lack of gestures or support for devices like the Magic Trackpad (there is nothing equivalent in the windows world AFAIK) is a regression for me.

At the same time I have seen Apple making steps to change its course, which made me leave on the first place. I see that Apple is now trying harder to make macOS exciting again. I see that macOS and Macs are very important to Apple again and that makes me happy.

Excellent and informative post, and one that offers much food for thought.

Thank you for taking the time to compose and post it.

 

[BenTrovato]

"Windows powered PC is viable". I said this today and tonight I'm having to Reset Windows 10 while the MS Gods are laughing at me s u c k e r! This kind of crap never happens on my Mac (knock on wood). I lost sound to my headset, after having sound today, but it still comes out my monitor. I have multiple cables, multiple headsets, and my audio drivers are up to date. I'll go over to Windows on Mac and see if they have any ideas over there.

Update: 4 hours later after resetting my Windows 10 PC, an automated process, I once again have sound in my headset, and a hundred apps I have to reinstall manually. So some want to know why we use Macs.

Just curious why you wouldn't have a clone ready to go with all your installed apps and working setup? Or if you're running Windows like a Mac with hourly backups a la Time Machine, you could just restore to that point quickly when something goes wrong. Should be under 20 minutes if you're using an ssd. Or is there a more complicated issue for your situation?

 

[Huntn]

Just curious why you wouldn't have a clone ready to go with all your installed apps and working setup? Or if you're running Windows like a Mac with hourly backups a la Time Machine, you could just restore to that point quickly when something goes wrong. Should be under 20 minutes if you're using an ssd. Or is there a more complicated issue for your situation?

Simply stated, I blew it. I had a several month old CDrive backup, that I did not think of. I need to verify if I have Windows restore points I could have relied on.

That said, sometimes it seems that restoring Windows can clean it up.